Water Cutting Disaster

[platehed]

I have been prepping my 60 year old brother for the 2010 NPC Gulf Coast Classic last week. I decided not to do a carb deplete/load. He ate well the weekend before and we tapered his carbs down to 260 a day by Friday. He stared Taraxatone Tuesday and was drinking 3 gallons of water a day. He was admittedly holding water the Saturday before as was to be expected. Wednesday, we adjusted his macros so he was taking in 8 grams of potassium and 2 grams of soduim a day. He had 2 gallons of water on Thursday and by 12pm Friday he had consumed one gallon.We cut his water to 4 ounces with each of his remaining 4 meals(45 grams of carbs per). Since the prejudging started at 8am Saturday he woke up, had some eggs and pancakes with no water. He didn't hit the stage until 12pm Saturday and the damage had been done. Flat as a board. The photos below show him at 1) June 19th 2) June 25th at 4:00pm 3) June 26th at 12:30pm. He had obviously peaked at 4pm the day before. Alot has been discussed about cutting water but here is my opinion based on my experiences.
1) Bodybuilders on the thin side but lean should never cut water. 2) Bodybuilders that don't have very round muscle bellies should never cut water 3) Unless they are unusually large, drug free bodybuilders should never cut their water. 4) If you are holding fat, cutting water will actually make you look smoother.

[shawncathey]

ya he missed his peak a bit. imo much better in the second pic. live and learn i guess. my last show was a total disaster to, so this time around im moving forward and nailing it cuz i know what happened last time. looks good for 60 damn. good luk

[joedemarco]

No disrespect, but his main problem was that he just wasn't in condition. Either he needed a few more weeks or his training/nutrition was off. When conditioning isn't there, all the final week pre-contest "tricks", such as manipulating water, don't matter.

[platehed]

No disrespect, but his main problem was that he just wasn't in condition. Either he needed a few more weeks or his training/nutrition was off. When conditioning isn't there, all the final week pre-contest "tricks", such as manipulating water, don't matter.

He needed a couple more weeks of dieting. He was going to do the Southern States a few weeks later. But the Greater Gulf States was on his birthday and he was bound and determined to walk on stage on his 60th birthday. His skin was thin. He was 4.7% on the Tanita scale. But you can see he totally deflated in the 3rd pic and was reasonably sharp in the second.

[shawncathey]

hell yea. most 60 year olds are home watching game shows with the orange bottles all over the living room table squinting to read shit. this guy is lifting being healthy and got on stage at 60. shit IMO thats fuckin awesome regaurdless of needing a few more weeks conditioning. inspiring to me actually

[joedemarco]

hell yea. most 60 year olds are home watching game shows with the orange bottles all over the living room table squinting to read shit. this guy is lifting being healthy and got on stage at 60. shit IMO thats fuckin awesome regaurdless of needing a few more weeks conditioning. inspiring to me actually

Of course someone 60 years old stepping on stage is inspiring. This is the masters forum...everyone in here inspires me. That wasn't the question/issue. I was just giving an honest assessment on his conditioning. When the conditioning is not there, manipulating water doesn't matter. I'm sure his conditioning will improve on each show that he does. He's doing a great job!

[platehed]

Of course someone 60 years old stepping on stage is inspiring. This is the masters forum...everyone in here inspires me. That wasn't the question/issue. I was just giving an honest assessment on his conditioning. When the conditioning is not there, manipulating water doesn't matter. I'm sure his conditioning will improve on each show that he does. He's doing a great job!

So Joe, how many times have you seen a well conditioned athlete cut his or her water and gain 5% in sharpness and lose 30% in muscle roundness? The proverbial "ironing board with abs". I'm not all together against it. I quit doing it personally. My abs would look 5% better and everything else would look 30% worse. The last time I tried it was in 2008. I cut it at 10pm Friday and took 1/2 of a dyazide and my pecs completely disappeared. It seems the common denominator is competitors with very fast metabolisms. On the flip side I have seen very large athletes or athletes with exceptionally round muscle bellies and small joints do it and look amazing.

[Hammerfit]

So Joe, how many times have you seen a well conditioned athlete cut his or her water and gain 5% in sharpness and lose 30% in muscle roundness? The proverbial "ironing board with abs". I'm not all together against it. I quit doing it personally. My abs would look 5% better and everything else would look 30% worse. The last time I tried it was in 2008. I cut it at 10pm Friday and took 1/2 of a dyazide and my pecs completely disappeared. It seems the common denominator is competitors with very fast metabolisms. On the flip side I have seen very large athletes or athletes with exceptionally round muscle bellies and small joints do it and look amazing.

Good Job to your Brother for jumping on stage at 60. But what I think what Joe is saying and to an extent I agree. Here on this board is where the exceptions rule. Most all of us are in that age group. That being said, conditioning is the key for any over 45. Generally speaking, saying I missed my water depletion really means you didn't dial in your conditioning to the umpth degree. I know because I made that mistake myself. My conditioning was off only slightly and I blamed it on the water when in fact I needed to be a bit harder. We all live and learn. Again congrats to your brother, he looks great and I wish him success in his upcoming show!

[THEVMAN]

I can sympathize - peaking properly requires experimentation and timing and knowing the persons body. I think there is a formula for the amount of carbs you take in vs. the amount of water you drink, that helps with the diet -- some fats, etc. to come in with the holy grail : HARD, DRY and FULL. I am hoping to get there with a new nutritionist - can t tell you all the mistakes I have made and all the times I have been lied to: Greatest lies: You need to drop more water -----> it is likely FAT and hence conditioning needs to improve. Another one ------> as long as you dont drink water, you can eat whatever you want as much as you want. and you wont "Spill Over" Here is a pic of me at the end of 2008 Spilling Over - carb up, salt and potassium manipulation, and duiretics ------> I think your friend would be better off dieting a bit more, and dropping water down and letting natural hormones take care of flushing. Dropping too much water too fast for too long can be dangerous to kidneys and body function ---- why risk it. He is better of taking some NO supps and getting a better pump to put the water to use - but fat is fat - so tough to burn off. Overall, he looks great and should enjoy the great condition he is in for the age. No point it being too critical, it is an evolutionary process.