A guide to first cycles???

[blake]

There is alot of mixed information/opinion given on 1st cycles. Some ppl say use test only, some say stack, some say front load with orals others say backload, some say 8 weeks is the right amount of time for a cycle others say 12 weeks and some even say 16weeks is the right amount of time "on".

In this forum i would like to put forward an open discussion about first cycles. everyone should have their input. im sure this will probably only add to the confusion, but if we can get some kind of a concensus here it might help to establish some guidelines to which future 1st timers can follow.

for the purpose of this thread lets say you have 30ml of sustanon 250 and 200 stanzolol tablets at 10mg a tab. how:-

a) many weeks would the cycle be?

b) much test per week would u take in mg ?

c) how would u stack the tabs with the test and at what weeks would u start and stop taking the orals?

d) how many times a week would u pin and how many mls each shot would u use? why?

e) how long after the last injection would you start PCT?

f) what would u use for PCT? why?

Hopefully by answering these questions we will be able to clear up some of the confusion. the more info u give here the better guys.

[s2h]

1:8
2:500 cyp or e
3:n/a
4:2-250mg monday/thursday
5:2 weeks
6:loof at heavy irons pct protocal

ps:have some nolva around during cycle x2 if your gyno prone or a youthfull person

[blake]

1:8
2:500 cyp or e
3:n/a
4:2-250mg monday/thursday
5:2 weeks
6:loof at heavy irons pct protocal

ps:have some nolva around during cycle x2 if your gyno prone or a youthfull person

why would u need nolva around if ur youthful???

P.S. define youthful???

[s2h]

why would u need nolva around if ur youthful???

P.S. define youthful???younger BB's..teens early 20's(could be later in life) tend to be more prone to gyno due to higher natural levels..nolva blocks the binding to the breast tissue(gyno)...if you start to have problems it is effective...always better to be prepared if something occurs..better safe then sorry..

[blake]

is anyone else going to join in here

[peopleschamp11]

1:8
2:500 cyp or e
3:n/a
4:2-250mg monday/thursday
5:2 weeks
6:loof at heavy irons pct protocal

ps:have some nolva around during cycle x2 if your gyno prone or a youthfull person

Bingo.

The only thing I would change is #1. I think 8 weeks is too short when using a long ester. I mean, typically test enth (in my experience) takes about 4 weeks to start to kick in and see visual gains. That's half the cycle right there with little to no progression.

But, that's just my opinion. Other than that, s2h nailed it.

[blake]

Bingo.

The only thing I would change is #1. I think 8 weeks is too short when using a long ester. I mean, typically test enth (in my experience) takes about 4 weeks to start to kick in and see visual gains. That's half the cycle right there with little to no progression.

But, that's just my opinion. Other than that, s2h nailed it.

yeh bro i was thinkin like a 12- 15 week cycle, that way u get the most outta ur gear and get better gains

[s2h]

Bingo.

The only thing I would change is #1. I think 8 weeks is too short when using a long ester. I mean, typically test enth (in my experience) takes about 4 weeks to start to kick in and see visual gains. That's half the cycle right there with little to no progression.

But, that's just my opinion. Other than that, s2h nailed it.you would be correct...pct 'n is a thing of the past for me...so cycle length isnt always the norm...

[HammerStrength12]

A few more questions:

-Do people usually stack the 500mg of test w/ dianabol for their first? I've heard this being done before

-What can you expect as far as test suppression goes? Are you going to be completely shut down (i.e serum test in the single digits?)

-How about liver enzymes, lipids, etc.?

-What kind of gains can you expect, how easy are they to retain with proper pct, increased calories after the cycle, etc..?

[s2h]

1:no
2-4:way to many factors to give a accurate answer....

[HammerStrength12]

1:no
2-4:way to many factors to give a accurate answer....

Thanks

[HammerStrength12]

Can anavar be used as a first cycle? I hear its not as suppressive as test. Can you expect decent results?

[Warped]

Can anavar be used as a first cycle? I hear its not as suppressive as test. Can you expect decent results?
If you are going to do anavar(which are for girls) then the first cycle is the best choice. Just because you grow on everything and small dosages on your first cycle. 60-80mg for 6-8 weeks maybe.

[HammerStrength12]

If you are going to do anavar(which are for girls) then the first cycle is the best choice. Just because you grow on everything and small dosages on your first cycle. 60-80mg for 6-8 weeks maybe.

Any idea how suppressed I'd be after 6 weeks on 60mg a day (a rough range is fine, obviously I know you can't predict the exact amount). And what would typical lean gains look like? Thanks for the help

[Warped]

I have never tried Var, but you should not be much suppressed. Age is a factor. I did 6 weeks with 50mg dbol and I didn`t feel any side effects when I went off. I gained about 15 pounds on dbol. Lean mass I don`t know. People are different so you pretty much have to try it for yourself.

[HammerStrength12]

Var's probably way easier on the liver and lipid profile than dbol I'd imagine? That's another idea. I'd consider running test for 8-16 weeks, but the thought of getting shut down into the single digits is stilll a little scary for me...

[s2h]

Var's probably way easier on the liver and lipid profile than dbol I'd imagine? That's another idea. I'd consider running test for 8-16 weeks, but the thought of getting shut down into the single digits is stilll a little scary for me...the stigma that var is a "girly drug" i find funny..var is very effective in what it does and highly dimissed as a girl only AAS..that is far from the truth..are there more effective oral compounds for building "mass' yes...but var can and will play a effective role in any cycle if used correctly..it is easier on your liver and lipid profile but can be harmfull as many orals if misused..as far as being shut down...thats part of AAs use no matter what avenue you take...the key is be prepared..have a plan and have ALL of your diet,training, cycle and pct in place before you begin...you cant correct a problem if you dont have all the tools at hand when you need them..i cant count the times that someone has been winding down a cycle and then are looking for the items needed for there pct...

[HammerStrength12]

the stigma that var is a "girly drug" i find funny..var is very effective in what it does and highly dimissed as a girl only AAS..that is far from the truth..are there more effective oral compounds for building "mass' yes...but var can and will play a effective role in any cycle if used correctly..it is easier on your liver and lipid profile but can be harmfull as many orals if misused..as far as being shut down...thats part of AAs use no matter what avenue you take...the key is be prepared..have a plan and have ALL of your diet,training, cycle and pct in place before you begin...you cant correct a problem if you dont have all the tools at hand when you need them..i cant count the times that someone has been winding down a cycle and then are looking for the items needed for there pct...


Most of that I have down. I'm not looking to gain a TON of size, but eventually when I plateau for a while will run either a PH, Var or Test cycle. Currently 5'10, weight fluctuates between 200 and 210, pretty lean.

The fact that its easier on the lipid and liver profile its a very good reason to use var instead. From my months of PH research, ALL prohormones will shut you down, but something like Halodrol doesn't suppress LH nearly as much as superdrol does. Making it much easier to recover the HPTA. Obviously shutdown is inevitable, but I don't want to end up on TRT at a young age. That's what scares me the most. I know all the components necessary to counteract these side effects, but for a lot of people, they do this and still have long term issues. I know a few people that are on TRT as a result of not recovering from their SD or M1 T cycles - and that's when they had all the tools in the arsenal prepared ahead of time.

[s2h]

Most of that I have down. I'm not looking to gain a TON of size, but eventually when I plateau for a while will run either a PH, Var or Test cycle. Currently 5'10, weight fluctuates between 200 and 210, pretty lean.

The fact that its easier on the lipid and liver profile its a very good reason to use var instead. From my months of PH research, ALL prohormones will shut you down, but something like Halodrol doesn't suppress LH nearly as much as superdrol does. Making it much easier to recover the HPTA. Obviously shutdown is inevitable, but I don't want to end up on TRT at a young age. That's what scares me the most. I know all the components necessary to counteract these side effects, but for a lot of people, they do this and still have long term issues. I know a few people that are on TRT as a result of not recovering from their SD or M1 T cycles - and that's when they had all the tools in the arsenal prepared ahead of time.from my personal expierence..i used AAS's at a young age for many years w/out any knowledge of what pct even was..i'am on trt now..would a proper protacol back then have kept me from were i am now...i dont really know...not sure it would have made a difference..but i'm thinking that it could have..i think you are doing the right thing by looking out for your health and asking questions/research..you are doing the things that i neglected and many are today with aot moe info out there..knowledge is power and i applaud you for taking a look at all the factors...

[HammerStrength12]

from my personal expierence..i used AAS's at a young age for many years w/out any knowledge of what pct even was..i'am on trt now..would a proper protacol back then have kept me from were i am now...i dont really know...not sure it would have made a difference..but i'm thinking that it could have..i think you are doing the right thing by looking out for your health and asking questions/research..you are doing the things that i neglected and many are today with aot moe info out there..knowledge is power and i applaud you for taking a look at all the factors...


Thanks, I appreciate that.

You know, a lot of people around my age don't realize this, but SO many friends end up smaller after a PH cycle than they were when they started because the low test levels during poor pct didn't allow them to retain the size they gained on cycle - even some of the size they gained NATURALLY before the cycle. So I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right. I've had some very good results with natural testosterone products (I get flamed a lot on here for singing their praises lol), and will keep using those. But when I run my first AAS or PH cycle I just want to be absolutely sure I know what I'm getting myself into and at least have some plan of action for every potential side effect. But it is tough - being a bigger guy but not HUGE. The temptations are always there, but I try to remember I'll be better off in the long run by waiting/doing as much research as possible in the meantime.

[blake]

you would be correct...pct 'n is a thing of the past for me...so cycle length isnt always the norm...

what do u mean PCT is a thing of the past for u???? im confused cause u go on to say its a must in all cycles....

Im having trouble getting HCG for my PCT. I live in Australia and it is very hard to get here. u cant just go to ur doc and say i want some cause im plannin to do a cycle!!! even when u get to the end of ur cycle u cant get it, if u tel em u need it cause ur coming off gear they send u to get bloods to check ur test levels and only if they are low will they write a prescription for HCG but at the end of a cycle ur test levels will be high??? WTF, how can i get it cause i know i need it.

these doctors are fuckin dumb!!!!

[s2h]

what do u mean PCT is a thing of the past for u???? im confused cause u go on to say its a must in all cycles....

Im having trouble getting HCG for my PCT. I live in Australia and it is very hard to get here. u cant just go to ur doc and say i want some cause im plannin to do a cycle!!! even when u get to the end of ur cycle u cant get it, if u tel em u need it cause ur coming off gear they send u to get bloods to check ur test levels and only if they are low will they write a prescription for HCG but at the end of a cycle ur test levels will be high??? WTF, how can i get it cause i know i need it.

these doctors are fuckin dumb!!!!sorry for the confusion...the pct i was refering to was in response to hammerstrengths question..i dont pct because i'm on prescribed trt...as far as hcg reread your own statement and use some creative thinking?????

[HammerStrength12]

So right now I'm thinking either h-drol, anavar, test, or dbol. Any other ones work for a first cycle?

[Warped]

So right now I'm thinking either h-drol, anavar, test, or dbol. Any other ones work for a first cycle?
You can use anything on your first cycle and grow from anything. The key is moderation/low dosages. What`s your goals?

[HammerStrength12]

You can use anything on your first cycle and grow from anything. The key is moderation/low dosages. What`s your goals?

Basically tryin to gain 10-15 lean lbs, and use the compound that's gonna be easiest on the liver, lipids and HPTA

[Warped]

Basically tryin to gain 10-15 lean lbs, and use the compound that's gonna be easiest on the liver, lipids and HPTA
300-350mg test e/c/sust for 8-10 weeks should get the job done. With a good diet during pct and a good pct you should not feel severly shutdown.
I had only positive things happen to me.

[ProtoType]

can anavar be used as a first cycle? I hear its not as suppressive as test. Can you expect decent results?
why spend $ on var when u can have way better results on dbol or anadrol ? Expense is my issue if im going to spend its going to be worth it .

[HammerStrength12]

why spend $ on var when u can have way better results on dbol or anadrol ? Expense is my issue if im going to spend its going to be worth it .

Well, $ is definitely a factor, but safety is more important than $ for me. Number one priority for me is something that will be relatively easy on the HPTA so that I can keep most of my gains and continue to build muscle afterward. Harshness on the liver/lipids etc is also important. I've read in a lot of places that its hard to keep the gains on dbol. That might be bro science though :dunno: I don't know a ton about this stuff


300-350mg test e/c/sust for 8-10 weeks should get the job done. With a good diet during pct and a good pct you should not feel severly shutdown.
I had only positive things happen to me.


Thanks for the suggestion bro. Would the pct be hcg and clomid? Similar to heavy irons sticky thread?

[blake]

I can not get HCG or arimidex, all i have is 30 nolvadex tabs???? i plan to start taking them 2 weeks after my final injection for PCT. My questions are;-

what can i expect in terms of retaining my gains???

and is this the best way to use them or should i start taking them 2 weeks before my cycle ends and keep taking them 2 weeks after the cycle???

[s2h]

I can not get HCG or arimidex, all i have is 30 nolvadex tabs???? i plan to start taking them 2 weeks after my final injection for PCT. My questions are;-

what can i expect in terms of retaining my gains???

and is this the best way to use them or should i start taking them 2 weeks before my cycle ends and keep taking them 2 weeks after the cycle???your not ready..when you have the words "all i have" in your post then things aren't in order...dont go to a gun fight with a knife..if your looking for sources then this is the wrong place...but get your cycle and pct together before you start anything...as far as gains kept...questions like that cant be answered with an accuracy only a guess....

[blake]

dude most ppl who use aas here in australia dont even know wat hcg is so its hard to get

[HammerStrength12]

300-350mg test e/c/sust for 8-10 weeks should get the job done. With a good diet during pct and a good pct you should not feel severly shutdown.
I had only positive things happen to me.

Any advice on pct for that cycle?

Will clomid get the job done or is hcg necessary as well? Is HCG only necessary when there is testicular atrophy? Or are they not necessarily ralated?

[s2h]

Any advice on pct for that cycle?

Will clomid get the job done or is hcg necessary as well? Is HCG only necessary when there is testicular atrophy? Or are they not necessarily ralated?you can read heavyirons pct or ask attila...not a very strong cycle but you never know...i'm on trt and had some issues..so never say never....

[Warped]

Any advice on pct for that cycle?

Will clomid get the job done or is hcg necessary as well? Is HCG only necessary when there is testicular atrophy? Or are they not necessarily ralated?
I didn`t even use a pct for that one. But I have always used nolva for 4 weeks, or clomid or both. Hcg is not necassery for that small of a cycle I think.