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View Full Version : Fish Oils do you take them, are they important?



bean44
03-17-2009, 07:18 PM
I was taking fish oil from the T-Nation site, Flameout, because I heard it is good for reducing inflamation. When I first started take them I felt that they were working, and that my inflamation was being controlled. Lately I have not been taking them and my inflamation(soreness) seems to be under control. Do you guys think the fish oil is important, or just another supplement like HMB which is worthless.

lilarnold
03-17-2009, 07:23 PM
i just use SAMS fish oil 1200mgs.......6 a day.

and yes it is important, very

MichaelWayne
03-17-2009, 08:11 PM
Omega 3,6,9 everyday. Combined with Mac nut oil and natty PB, I've noticed not only general health being better, but my skin and hair have never looked better. lol

bigdaddyd
03-17-2009, 08:22 PM
Omegas used everyday! And I can feel the difference when I do not take them

red barraca
03-17-2009, 08:48 PM
3,6,9,almonds olive oil natty peanut butter,and 6 whole eggs every morning

Myth
03-17-2009, 09:16 PM
how could you ever compare fish oil to HMB?

apex23
03-17-2009, 09:43 PM
I use Fish oil every day and love it.

Frosty
03-17-2009, 10:09 PM
Fish oil is the number one supplement anyone could take. Silly not to take it.

bean44
03-17-2009, 10:17 PM
how could you ever compare fish oil to HMB?
I'm not comparing it to HMB, just giving and example of one of the many supplements that are worthless. I do appreciate everyone's advice.

buster12
03-17-2009, 10:18 PM
I love fish oil....

Mercury
03-17-2009, 10:18 PM
Fish oil killed my tendonitis (or whatever the hell was plaguing my left wrist). It's one of the supps I love most. :)

buster12
03-17-2009, 10:19 PM
Is there anything, any study that proves it to be more effective at different times?...

NPCKnight
03-17-2009, 10:44 PM
Fish oil is really...from a health perspective...the most important supplement on the market. Its not even a question. Everyone should be taking fish oils. I often take 6-10g per day and am going to mega dose soon with 5-6g PER MEAL. Razor is also an advocate of this. I have religously taken fish oils in moderate to high doses for years.
Trueprotein has 1000 for like 24 bucks...pharmecutical grade.

Legend
03-18-2009, 01:02 PM
The Omega-3s (EPA) + (DHA) that can be found fish oil, are essential.

There are very few supplements that contain ingredients that are essential, but fish oil is one of them.

Jer
03-18-2009, 04:23 PM
Yes I take them.

heavyiron
03-18-2009, 04:43 PM
Omega 3 fish oils are a no brainer. They have so many proven health benefits that almost everyone should use them.

Big Al
03-18-2009, 05:07 PM
I heard that 3g a day is a maximum to benefit from.

BudTheBuilder
03-19-2009, 09:30 AM
I use between 3 and 6 mg a day, since I started I have not had as much shoulder pain, I have had none infact.

I only take 6g a day when it is cold because the cool really messes with my shoulder, or when I have done heavy lifting.

DaveV
03-19-2009, 09:38 AM
I use between 3 and 6 mg a day, since I started I have not had as much shoulder pain, I have had none infact.

I only take 6g a day when it is cold because the cool really messes with my shoulder, or when I have done heavy lifting.


I've noticed my knee joint pain lessen while taking fish oil. I usually take between 3-8g a day.

Myth
03-19-2009, 09:46 AM
I'm not comparing it to HMB, just giving and example of one of the many supplements that are worthless. I do appreciate everyone's advice.

Right, so you were insinuating that fish oils may be worthless?

Bubba Bronko
03-19-2009, 10:00 AM
Over in the UK Drs will perscribe fish oil to their pts if the come in with chest pain or they are S/P heart attack and live. Fish oil does wonders for your body do the research and you will be very surprised.

BigJD69
03-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Prob. the only supplement a M.D. will recommend!!!

Bubba Bronko
03-19-2009, 11:52 AM
Prob. the only supplement a M.D. will recommend!!!


True that brosefous

chucksm00th
03-19-2009, 01:30 PM
Fish oil is the number one supplement anyone could take. Silly not to take it.

Couldn't agree more

natron
03-20-2009, 04:53 PM
Fish oil is the number one supplement anyone could take. Silly not to take it.

Fish oil is very important, personally I'd put whey isolate ahead of it, but to each their own.

Remember, fish oil has a literal ton of benefits, and at high doses works very well as an "anti fat gain" supplement.

10-12 grams per day, IMO

Rick

Frosty
03-20-2009, 04:55 PM
Fish oil is very important, personally I'd put whey isolate ahead of it, but to each their own.

Remember, fish oil has a literal ton of benefits, and at high doses works very well as an "anti fat gain" supplement.

10-12 grams per day, IMO

Rick


Whey is very useful, no doubt. The reason I put fish oil above whey is simply because the essential fats in fish oil are *essential* and are severely lacking in most diets. It has more overall benefits than whey as well.

natron
03-20-2009, 04:59 PM
Sorry, not even close.

Look at Pubmed, the effects of Whey isolate are without any doubt, ahead of fish oils. Not just for bodybuilders, but everyone.

But, Fish oils are my second "must have" supplement, and I agree, has tons of benefits.

Rick

natron
03-20-2009, 05:00 PM
I'll never go without either, both my favorite supplements. Everyone should be taking these two...

Rick

natron
03-20-2009, 05:03 PM
I've treated terminally ill cancer patients with undenatured whey protein isolate and saved lives, as well as alcoholics. This stuff is priceless, to say the least.

The immune stimulating properties, as well as increased GSH production alone make this your most important supplement, hands down...

Rick

BrianNassar
03-20-2009, 05:10 PM
Fish oil is very important, personally I'd put whey isolate ahead of it, but to each their own.

Remember, fish oil has a literal ton of benefits, and at high doses works very well as an "anti fat gain" supplement.

10-12 grams per day, IMO

Rick

I also take that much purified fish oil per day. For my joints, heart, and brain. Awesome nutritional supplement!!

natron
03-20-2009, 05:14 PM
Wurd! Very under estimated/under dosed supplement. Glad to hear your using an effective dosage!

Rick

Frosty
03-20-2009, 05:19 PM
Sorry, not even close.

Look at Pubmed, the effects of Whey isolate are without any doubt, ahead of fish oils. Not just for bodybuilders, but everyone.

But, Fish oils are my second "must have" supplement, and I agree, has tons of benefits.

Rick

So tell me how whey is so much better than fish oil? I'd be curious because I've never heard of a whey protein deficiency. What is the effect on cancer? Diabetes? Heart disease?

I can't imagine if someone asked about taking just one supplement anyone would say "whey protein" over fish oil when talking overall benefit. Even Charles Poliquin says if he could have anyone take just one supplement it would be fish oil since it helps just about any disease plus other benefits.

natron
03-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Thats whey isolate, 5 times more benefits than fish oil. Check Pubmed. I'll start a seperate thread later, but I can literally talk for hours... Too busy at the moment. I'll get it going by tomorrow. Thanks for the interest

Rick

natron
03-20-2009, 05:48 PM
Lam SM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Lam%20SM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Moughan PJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Moughan%20PJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Awati A (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Awati%20A%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Morton HR (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Morton%20HR%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Riddet Institute, Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand. [email protected]
Protein is often considered the most satiating macronutrient. The objective was to determine the short-term effect of mixtures of whey protein and glycomacropeptide (GMP) versus a carbohydrate control on satiety in healthy adult humans. The study was a randomised crossover Latin Square design. On 4 separate days, fifty healthy subjects (19 males and 31 females) received a subject-specific breakfast (08:00 h), a preload drink (12:00 h) and lunch (12:30 h). The preload drink was presented as a milkshake with either maltodextrin carbohydrate (control), whey protein isolate (WPI) with no GMP, WPI with naturally present 21% GMP or WPI with naturally present 21% GMP plus added GMP. Satiety was assessed using visual analogue scales (VAS) and by determining ad libitum food intake during a cafeteria style meal offered 30 min after the preload. The VAS indicated that the lower GMP treatment induced a greater feeling of fullness immediately after consumption of the preload compared with the other treatments. Energy and macronutrient intake at lunch did not differ significantly (p>0.05) between treatments although subjects chose to eat foods higher in carbohydrate and lower in protein after the protein preloads. Women consumed the least amount of protein after the protein preloads whereas no difference was found in men. There was some evidence that whey proteins and their components enhance satiety over a short-term period compared to carbohydrate but there was no consistent effect of either whey protein alone or glycomacropeptide.


Zavorsky GS (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Zavorsky%20GS%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Kubow S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Kubow%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Grey V (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Grey%20V%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Riverin V (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Riverin%20V%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Lands LC (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Lands%20LC%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Department of Anesthesia, McGill University Health Center, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. [email protected]
BACKGROUND: High-pressure treatment of whey protein may increase digestibility and bioavailability of cysteine. The purpose of the study was to determine whether total lymphocyte glutathione (gamma-glutamyl-cysteinyl-glycine [GSH]) levels (oxidized+reduced) can be augmented from three different doses of pressurized whey protein supplements in a dose-dependent manner over a 2-week period. METHODS: Eighteen healthy males and 18 healthy females were randomized into three different groups, with 31 finishing the study. Each group ingested 15, 30, or 45 g/day pressurized whey protein in the morning in bar format for 14 days. Each group was blinded to the amount of whey protein they were ingesting. Ten millilitres of blood was withdrawn before and after the 2-week period to assess blood lymphocyte levels pre and post supplementation. RESULTS: There was no change in body weight or reported physical activity levels pre and post supplementation. Pre-lymphocyte GSH levels were not significantly different between groups (3.7+/-0.7 micromol/l). Least-squares linear regression showed that the change in lymphocyte GSH levels from pre to post supplementation was affected by the amount of whey protein ingested daily (P=0.037). The group that ingested 45 g/day pressurized whey protein augmented GSH levels the most (by approximately 24%), and the group that ingested 15 g/day did not increase lymphocyte GSH levels. CONCLUSIONS: We conclude that there is a significant relationship between the dosage of supplementation and the change in lymphocyte GSH levels. Furthermore, the increase in GSH was linear with the amount of whey protein ingested. Pressurized whey protein supplementation of 45 g/day for 2 weeks can increase lymphocyte GSH by 24%.
Grey V (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Grey%20V%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Mohammed SR (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Mohammed%20SR%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Smountas AA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Smountas%20AA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Bahlool R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Bahlool%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Lands LC (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Lands%20LC%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). The Department of Pathology and Molecular Medicine, McMaster Division, Hamilton Health Sciences, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
BACKGROUND: The lung disease of cystic fibrosis is associated with a chronic inflammatory reaction and an over abundance of oxidants relative to antioxidants. Glutathione functions as a major frontline defense against the build-up of oxidants in the lung. This increased demand for glutathione (GSH) in cystic fibrosis may be limiting if nutritional status is compromised. We sought to increase glutathione levels in stable patients with cystic fibrosis by supplementation with a whey-based protein. METHODS: Twenty-one patients who were in stable condition were randomly assigned to take a whey protein isolate (Immunocal, 10 g twice a day) or casein placebo for 3 months. Peripheral lymphocyte GSH was used as a marker of lung GSH. Values were compared with nutritional status and lung parameters. RESULTS: At baseline there were no significant differences in age, height, weight, percent ideal body weight or percent body fat. Lymphocyte GSH was similar in the two groups. After supplementation, we observed a 46.6% increase from baseline (P < 0.05) in the lymphocyte GSH levels in the supplemented group. No other changes were observed. CONCLUSION: The results show that dietary supplementation with a whey-based product can increase glutathione levels in cystic fibrosis. This nutritional approach may be useful in maintaining optimal levels of GSH and counteract the deleterious effects of oxidative stress in the lung in cystic fibrosis. Copyright 2003 European Cystic Fibrosis Society


Kent KD (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Kent%20KD%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Harper WJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Harper%20WJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Bomser JA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Bomser%20JA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Department of Food Science and Technology, The Ohio State University, 2015 Fyffe Road, Columbus, OH 43210, USA.
Cysteine is the rate-limiting amino acid for synthesis of the ubiquitous antioxidant glutathione (GSH). Bovine whey proteins are rich in cystine, the disulfide form of the amino acid cysteine. The objective of this study was to determine whether enzymatically hydrolyzed whey protein isolate (WPI) could increase intracellular GSH concentrations and protect against oxidant-induced cell death in a human prostate epithelial cell line (designated RWPE-1). Treatment of RWPE-1 cells with hydrolyzed WPI (500 microg/ml) significantly increased intracellular GSH by 64%, compared with control cells receiving no hydrolyzed WPI (P<0.05). A similar increase in GSH was observed with N-acetylcysteine (500 microM), a cysteine-donating compound known to elevate intracellular GSH. In contrast, treatment with hydrolyzed sodium caseinate (500 microg/ml), a cystine-poor protein source, did not significantly elevate intracellular GSH. Hydrolyzed WPI (500 microg/ml) significantly protected RWPE-1 cells from oxidant-induced cell death, compared with controls receiving no WPI (P<0.05). The results of this study indicate that WPI can increase GSH synthesis and protect against oxidant-induced cell death in human prostate cells.


Tsai WY (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Tsai%20WY%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Chang WH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Chang%20WH%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Chen CH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Chen%20CH%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Lu FJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Lu%20FJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine National Taiwan University, Taipei, ROC.
To determine the enhancing effect of a whey protein isolate on the cytotoxicity of a potential anticancer drug, baicalein, the human hepatoma cell line Hep G2 was assigned to grow in different media for four days, and cell growth and apoptosis were investigated. The control group was grown in normal medium; the other three groups were grown in whey protein isolate (Immunocal) medium, baicalein medium, and a combination of Immunocal and baicalein. As indicated by 3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyl tetrazolium bromide assay, survival rate was significantly lower in cells grown in baicalein + Immunocal than in cells grown in baicalein alone. In contrast, there was no significant difference in survival rate of the cells grown in Immunocal. In the investigation of apoptosis, cells grown in baicalein + Immunocal showed a higher phosphatidylserine exposure, lower mitochondrial transmembrane potential, and nearly 13 times more cells undergoing apoptosis than cells grown in baicalein alone. We also demonstrated that Immunocal reduced glutathione (GSH) in Hep G2 cells by 20-40% and regulated the elevation of GSH, which was in response to baicalein. In conclusion, Immunocal seemed to enhance the cytotoxicity of baicalein by inducing more apoptosis; this increase in apoptotic cells may be associated with the depletion of GSH in Hep G2 cells. This is the first study to demonstrate, in vitro, that Immunocal may function as an adjuvant in cancer treatment.

Micke P (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Micke%20P%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Beeh KM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Beeh%20KM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Buhl R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Buhl%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Pulmonary Division III, Medical Department, Mainz University Hospital, Germany. [email protected]
BACKGROUND: HIV infection is characterized by an enhanced oxidant burden and a systemic deficiency of the tripeptide glutathione (GSH), a major antioxidant. The semi-essential amino acid cysteine is the main source of the free sulfhydryl group of GSH and limits its synthesis. Whey proteins are rich in cysteine as well as in GSH precursor peptides. AIM OF THE STUDY: In order to evaluate the effects of whey supplementation on plasma GSH levels, HIV-infected patients were treated with whey proteins for a period of six months. METHODS: In a double blind clinical trial, 30 patients were randomized to a daily dose of 45 g whey proteins of either Protectamin (Fresenius Kabi, Germany) or Immunocal (Immunotec, Europe) for 2 weeks. Eighteen patients (16 male, 42 +/- 9.4 yr, 249 +/- 99 CD4+ lymphocytes/l) continued the trial with a daily dose of 45 g of Protectamin for six months. RESULTS: Pre-therapy, total plasma GSH levels (Protectamin: 1.92 +/- 0.6 microM; Immunocal: 1.99 +/- 0.9 microM) were less than normal (2.64 +/- 0.7 microM, p = 0.03). After two weeks of whey protein supplementation, plasma total GSH levels increased in the Protectamin group by 44 +/- 56% (2.79 +/- 1.1 microM, p = 0.004), while the difference in the Immunocal group did not reach significance (+24.5 +/- 59 %, 2.51 +/- 1.48 microM, p = 0.43). Consequently, all patients continuing the trial were openly switched to Protectamin. After six months, total GSH plasma levels were still significantly elevated compared to baseline (day 1: 1.95 +/- 0.8 microM vs. month 1: 2.18 +/- 0.8 microM, p = 0.19; month 3: 2.39 +/- 0.9 microM, p = 0.056; month 6: 2.47 +/- 0.8 microM, p = 0.033). Body weight, T-cell counts, and other clinical parameters did not change. The most common mild side effect was intestinal disturbance; severe adverse events did not occur. CONCLUSION: Supplementation with whey proteins persistently increased plasma glutathione levels in patients with advanced HIV-infection. The treatment was well tolerated. A larger long-term trial is clearly warranted to evaluate whether this positive influence on the glutathione metabolism translates into

Tsai WY (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Tsai%20WY%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Chang WH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Chang%20WH%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Chen CH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Chen%20CH%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Lu FJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Lu%20FJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine National Taiwan University, Taipei, ROC.
To determine the enhancing effect of a whey protein isolate on the cytotoxicity of a potential anticancer drug, baicalein, the human hepatoma cell line Hep G2 was assigned to grow in different media for four days, and cell growth and apoptosis were investigated. The control group was grown in normal medium; the other three groups were grown in whey protein isolate (Immunocal) medium, baicalein medium, and a combination of Immunocal and baicalein. As indicated by 3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyl tetrazolium bromide assay, survival rate was significantly lower in cells grown in baicalein + Immunocal than in cells grown in baicalein alone. In contrast, there was no significant difference in survival rate of the cells grown in Immunocal. In the investigation of apoptosis, cells grown in baicalein + Immunocal showed a higher phosphatidylserine exposure, lower mitochondrial transmembrane potential, and nearly 13 times more cells undergoing apoptosis than cells grown in baicalein alone. We also demonstrated that Immunocal reduced glutathione (GSH) in Hep G2 cells by 20-40% and regulated the elevation of GSH, which was in response to baicalein. In conclusion, Immunocal seemed to enhance the cytotoxicity of baicalein by inducing more apoptosis; this increase in apoptotic cells may be associated with the depletion of GSH in Hep G2 cells. This is the first study to demonstrate, in vitro, that Immunocal may function as an adjuvant in cancer treatments

[No authors listed]AIDS: Pharmaceutical companies are promoting injectable HGH or rHGH to promote the gain of muscle mass in persons with AIDS. Side effects can include high triglycerides, thyroid dysfunction, and increased tumor growth. A possible alternative is a Homeopathic HGH produced by Biomed Comm. Contact information for Biomed Comm is provided. Marinol, which contains THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, also promotes appetite and an increase in body mass. Immunocal, Optimune, and Designer Protein also appear effective in increasing lean muscle mass. Whole lemon olive oil drink is also discussed.

Micke P (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Micke%20P%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Beeh KM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Beeh%20KM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Schlaak JF (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Schlaak%20JF%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Buhl R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Buhl%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Pulmonary Division, III. Medical Department, Mainz University Hospital, D-455101 Mainz, Germany. [email protected]
HIV infection is characterized by an enhanced oxidant burden and a systemic deficiency of the tripeptide glutathione (GSH), a major antioxidant. The semi-essential amino acid cysteine is the main source of the free sulfhydryl group of GSH and limits its synthesis. Therefore, different strategies to supplement cysteine supply have been suggested to increase glutathione levels in HIV-infected individuals. The aim of this study was to evaluate the effect of oral supplementation with two different cysteine-rich whey protein formulas on plasma GSH levels and parameters of oxidative stress and immune status in HIV-infected patients. In a prospective double blind clinical trial, 30 patients (25 male, 5 female; mean age (+/- SD) 42 +/- 9.8 years) with stable HIV infection (221 +/- 102 CD4 + lymphocytes L-1) were randomized to a supplemental diet with a daily dose of 45 g whey proteins of either Protectamin (Fresenius Kabi, Bad Hamburg, Germany) or Immunocal (Immunotec, Vandreuil, Canada) for two weeks. Plasma concentrations of total, reduced and oxidized GSH, superoxide anion (O2-) release by blood mononuclear cells, plasma levels of TNF-alpha and interleukins 2 and 12 were quantified with standard methods at baseline and after therapy. Pre-therapy, plasma GSH levels (Protectamin: 1.92 +/- 0.6 microM; Immunocal: 1.98 +/- 0.9 microM) were less than normal (2.64 +/- 0.7 microM, P = 0.03). Following two weeks of oral supplementation with whey proteins, plasma GSH levels increased in the Protectamin group by 44 +/- 56% (2.79 +/- 1.2 microM, P = 0.004) while the difference in the Immunocal group did not reach significance (+ 24.5 +/- 59%, 2.51 +/- 1.48 microM, P = 0.43). Spontaneous O2- release by blood mononuclear cells was stable (20.1 +/- 14.2 vs. 22.6 +/- 16.1 nmol h-1 10-6 cells, P = 0.52) whereas PMA-induced O2- release decreased in the Protectamin group (53.7 +/- 19 vs. 39.8 +/- 18 nmol h-1 10-6 cells, P = 0.04). Plasma concentrations of TNF-alpha and interleukins 2 and 12 (P > 0.08, all comparisons) as well as routine clinical parameters remained unchanged. Therapy was well tolerated. In glutathione-deficient patients with advanced HIV-infection, short-term oral supplementation with whey proteins increases plasma glutathione levels. A long-term clinical trial is clearly warranted to see if this "biochemical efficacy" of whey proteins translates into a more favourable course of the disease.


Here are a few....


Rick

Frosty
03-20-2009, 07:03 PM
Okay so it increases glutathione, it's filling, and it helps cancer.

I'll list a short few on fish oil:

1. Helps prevent depression by stabilizing mood (in manics and schizos)

2. They lower triglycerides, reducing risk of hear attacks

3. It increases serotonin levels

4. They help prevent heart disease.

5. They help prevent cancer.

6. They help joints in rheumatoid arthritis

7. It can reduce risk of sudden cardiac death by as much as 50%

8. It slows progression of IgA Nephropathy, a kidney disease

9. It's helpful in reducing inflammation and inflammatory conditions like asthma

10. It reduces hypertension in hypertensive people

11. Helps reduce risk of prostate cancer

12. lower VLDL and raise HDL

13. Lower homocysteine

14. Increase glucose tolerance and help diabetics

15. It activates fat burning genes to help you lose fat


It's so useful for so many things because it helps make cell membranes more functional. These are *essential* fats here. Whey protein isn't essential.

BrandonBass
03-20-2009, 08:32 PM
Anyone here take Palumbo's Omegalyze? If so, do you feel it is superior to other fish oils? Thanks

natron
03-20-2009, 09:33 PM
Okay so it increases glutathione, it's filling, and it helps cancer.

I'll list a short few on fish oil:

1. Helps prevent depression by stabilizing mood (in manics and schizos)

2. They lower triglycerides, reducing risk of hear attacks

3. It increases serotonin levels

4. They help prevent heart disease.

5. They help prevent cancer.

6. They help joints in rheumatoid arthritis

7. It can reduce risk of sudden cardiac death by as much as 50%

8. It slows progression of IgA Nephropathy, a kidney disease

9. It's helpful in reducing inflammation and inflammatory conditions like asthma

10. It reduces hypertension in hypertensive people

11. Helps reduce risk of prostate cancer

12. lower VLDL and raise HDL

13. Lower homocysteine

14. Increase glucose tolerance and help diabetics

15. It activates fat burning genes to help you lose fat


It's so useful for so many things because it helps make cell membranes more functional. These are *essential* fats here. Whey protein isn't essential.

Almost all of these benenfits can also be acheived through Whey isolate. The list goes on and on.

Don't get me wrong though, I use both, and they are both my favorite supplements

Rick

natron
03-20-2009, 09:35 PM
I couldn't list all the benefits if I tried. Every benefit from the immune stimulating properties, plus all the benefits of increased GSH, plus all the benefits of each individual amino acid. Too much to list, all at once anyways...

Rick

natron
03-20-2009, 09:36 PM
and just like fish oil, some of the components in whey isolate ARE essential, just to let you know. Fish oil is not essential, either is whey, it's the components in them that are essential.

Rick

BIG AL WILLIAMS
03-20-2009, 09:37 PM
I see them as a must have in bodybuilding like whey protein and vitamins.

natron
03-20-2009, 09:39 PM
Both are a must IMO. You'd be silly not to use salmon oil and whey isolate.

Rick

Frosty
03-20-2009, 10:22 PM
and just like fish oil, some of the components in whey isolate ARE essential, just to let you know.

Like the vitamins and amino acids, like I get in my chicken breast I'm eating now? :rolleyes: I'm not likely to be deficient in amino acids.

If you don't eat a lot of fatty fish, then fish oil is more important. Diets today are way too heavy on omega-6s and deficient in omega-3s. EPA and DHA are essential and not typically found in significant amounts in most diets. My diet of mostly chicken breast and whey is STILL too high in omega-6s....but adding fish oil gives me the EPA and DHA I need and balances out the ratio.

natron
03-21-2009, 01:31 PM
EPA and DHA are NOT essential, linoleic acid is

Zetawill
03-21-2009, 01:37 PM
A MUST HAVE.....and I only use the Nordic Naturals brand.....the only one I have found with a true triglyceride backbone....purity is outstanding and the liquids actually taste incredible!

Legend
03-21-2009, 03:20 PM
Important nutritionally-essential O−3 fatty acids are: eicosapentaenoic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eicosapentaenoic_acid) (EPA), docosahexaenoic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docosahexaenoic_acid) (DHA), and α-linolenic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-linolenic_acid) (ALA), all of which are polyunsaturated.

Note: Taking the 18 carbon α-linolenic acid (ALA) has not been shown to have the same cardiovascular benefits as DHA or EPA. Currently there are many products on the market which claim to contain health promoting 'omega 3', but contain only α-linolenic acid (ALA), not EPA or DHA. These products contain mainly higer plant oils and have no proven health benefits.


Key O−6 fatty acids:

Linoleic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleic_acid), the shortest-chained n−6 fatty acid, is an essential fatty acid. Arachidonic acid is a physiologically significant n−6 fatty acid and is the precursor for prostaglandins and other physiologically active molecules.

Note: Medical research suggests that excessive levels of n−6 fatty acids, relative to n−3 fatty acids, increases the probability of a number of diseases and depression.

Excess n−6 fats interfere with the health benefits of n−3 fats; in part because they compete for the same rate-limiting enzymes. A high proportion of n−6 to n−3 fat in the diet shifts the physiological state in the tissues toward the pathogenesis of many diseases: prothrombotic, proinflammatory and proconstrictive.

natron
03-21-2009, 05:13 PM
A MUST HAVE.....and I only use the Nordic Naturals brand.....the only one I have found with a true triglyceride backbone....purity is outstanding and the liquids actually taste incredible!

I've used this in the past. Not currently using it now, just a cost issue, but they make incredible products!

Rick

natron
03-21-2009, 05:34 PM
I'll start to go a little more in depth here, bare with me it may take some time.

Wu G (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Wu%20G%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Department of Animal Science, Faculty of Nutrition, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX, 77843, USA, [email protected].
Recent years have witnessed the discovery that amino acids (AA) are not only cell signaling molecules but are also regulators of gene expression and the protein phosphorylation cascade. Additionally, AA are key precursors for syntheses of hormones and low-molecular weight nitrogenous substances with each having enormous biological importance. Physiological concentrations of AA and their metabolites (e.g., nitric oxide, polyamines, glutathione, taurine, thyroid hormones, and serotonin) are required for the functions. However, elevated levels of AA and their products (e.g., ammonia, homocysteine, and asymmetric dimethylarginine) are pathogenic factors for neurological disorders, oxidative stress, and cardiovascular disease. Thus, an optimal balance among AA in the diet and circulation is crucial for whole body homeostasis. There is growing recognition that besides their role as building blocks of proteins and polypeptides, some AA regulate key metabolic pathways that are necessary for maintenance, growth, reproduction, and immunity. They are called functional AA, which include arginine, cysteine, glutamine, leucine, proline, and tryptophan. Dietary supplementation with one or a mixture of these AA may be beneficial for (1) ameliorating health problems at various stages of the life cycle (e.g., fetal growth restriction, neonatal morbidity and mortality, weaning-associated intestinal dysfunction and wasting syndrome, obesity, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, the metabolic syndrome, and infertility); (2) optimizing efficiency of metabolic transformations to enhance muscle growth, milk production, egg and meat quality and athletic performance, while preventing excess fat deposition and reducing adiposity. Thus, AA have important functions in both nutrition and health.
1: J Coll Physicians Surg Pak. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'J%20Coll%20P hysicians%20Surg%20Pak.');) 2009 Mar;19(3):139-45.Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu19268010);)
Dietary supplementations of amino acids: evidence for enhanced serotonergic functions following haloperidol withdrawal in rat medial prefrontal cortex.

Batool F (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Batool%20F%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Ahmed S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Ahmed%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Haleem DJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Haleem%20DJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
Department of Biochemistry, University of Karachi, Karachi.
entiate mPFC serotonergic modulation of neuroleptic activity.Sanchez S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Sanchez%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Paredes SD (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Paredes%20SD%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Sanchez CL (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Sanchez%20CL%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Barriga C (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Barriga%20C%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Reiter RJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Reiter%20RJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Rodriguez AB (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Rodriguez%20AB%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Department of Physiology, Faculty of Science, University of Extremadura, Badajoz, Spain. [email protected]
OBJECTIVES: Since the tryptophan-derived metabolites serotonin and melatonin have been shown to possess reinforcing and/or antioxidant properties in the immune system, this investigation was aimed at determining the possible effect of a 7-day administration of tryptophan (125 mg/kg b.w.), the precursor of both the neurotransmitter and the indole, on the phagocytosis and free radical scavenging of peritoneal macrophages from adult male Wistar rats. METHODS: Phagocytosis was measured by the latex-bead phagocytosis index (PI), i.e., the number of latex beads ingested by 100 macrophages, the phagocytosis percentage (PP), i.e., the percentage of cells that had phagocytosed at least one latex bead, and the phagocytosis efficiency (PE), i.e., the ratio PI:PP which indicates how effectively the phagocytes ingested the particles. Oxidative metabolism was measured by the nitroblue tetrazolium (NBT) reduction test. RESULTS: In control conditions, PI, PP, and PE significantly increased during the dark period, while the superoxide anion levels underwent a significant reduction. Tryptophan treatment significantly raised the phagocytosis parameters in a general fashion, as well as decreasing the oxidative metabolism with respect to the control values. Also, there was a significant rise in the MESORs of the PI and PE (of around 16% and 12%, respectively), the MESOR of the percentage of NBT reduction was significantly reduced (19%). CONCLUSION: Orally administered tryptophan enhanced the phagocytic response and detoxification of superoxide anion radicals derived from this immune function in the peritoneal macrophages of rats, very probably through its conversion to the immunoregulatory molecules, serotonin and melatonin.


Tryptophan is a precurser to serotinin, and this has many benefits from regulating sleep patterns, managing depression, lessening anxiety, reducing headaches, reducing carb cravings/satiety. etc...

natron
03-21-2009, 05:46 PM
Okay so it increases glutathione, it's filling, and it helps cancer.

I'll list a short few on fish oil:

1. Helps prevent depression by stabilizing mood (in manics and schizos)

2. They lower triglycerides, reducing risk of hear attacks

3. It increases serotonin levels

4. They help prevent heart disease.

5. They help prevent cancer.

6. They help joints in rheumatoid arthritis

7. It can reduce risk of sudden cardiac death by as much as 50%

8. It slows progression of IgA Nephropathy, a kidney disease

9. It's helpful in reducing inflammation and inflammatory conditions like asthma

10. It reduces hypertension in hypertensive people

11. Helps reduce risk of prostate cancer

12. lower VLDL and raise HDL

13. Lower homocysteine

14. Increase glucose tolerance and help diabetics

15. It activates fat burning genes to help you lose fat


It's so useful for so many things because it helps make cell membranes more functional. These are *essential* fats here. Whey protein isn't essential.

1. Whey stabalizes mood through Trytophan content, which is a precurser to serotonin, as well as melatonin.

2. Arginine content increases NO production, which increases blood flow. Thus an effective strategyy for reducing the risk of heart related ailments, such as strokes and myocardial infarction.

3. Already addresses

4. Already basically addressed

5. Immuno stimaltion is effective cancer protection, and increased GSH has proven to be an effective cancer treatment.

6. Immunoglobulins stimulate the human immune system, and with long term use could eliminate or lessen the effects of immune type conditions, such as rheumatoid arthritis.

7. By stimultaing the immune system, these conditions are less likely to exist in the first place. Increased GSH with organs also provides a higher likelihood the body can stave off such conditions (GSH is mainly found within human organs, as an antioxidant).

8. So does glutathione

9. Immune disorder, already discussed

More later,

Rick

Frosty
03-22-2009, 12:13 AM
EPA and DHA are NOT essential, linoleic acid is


Okay first off, you don't even have the right base omega-3 fat. Linleic acid is the omega-6. Alpha-linolenic acid is the base omega-3. However these aren't the true essential fats on the omega-3 side because they aren't directly converted into prostaglandins and other uses. EPA is the fat that is converted to prostaglandins, and DHA is used in the nervous system and cell membranes.

I'm sure you know that there are enzyme pathways required to conver alpha-linolenic acid into EPA. This requires the delta-6 desaturase enzyme, which is notoriously deficient in so many people because it's dysfunctional with high insulin levels, which means most fat people and a great deal of people. There are also "obligatory carnivores" whose ancestry relied on these animal fats for the EFAs so much that they've lost most of their desaturase enzyme pathways. There are also other factors that can reduce converstion of alpha-linolenic acid into EPA, and even if it does convert to DHA, the pathway is long enough that very little actually ends up as DHA (meaning alpha-linolenic acid is at best a poor source of DHA, and at worst zero source).

With this in mind, it's more proper to say that EPA and DHA are the true essential omega-3 fats.

BrianNassar
03-22-2009, 12:25 PM
Okay first off, you don't even have the right base omega-3 fat. Linleic acid is the omega-6. Alpha-linolenic acid is the base omega-3. However these aren't the true essential fats on the omega-3 side because they aren't directly converted into prostaglandins and other uses. EPA is the fat that is converted to prostaglandins, and DHA is used in the nervous system and cell membranes.

I'm sure you know that there are enzyme pathways required to conver alpha-linolenic acid into EPA. This requires the delta-6 desaturase enzyme, which is notoriously deficient in so many people because it's dysfunctional with high insulin levels, which means most fat people and a great deal of people. There are also "obligatory carnivores" whose ancestry relied on these animal fats for the EFAs so much that they've lost most of their desaturase enzyme pathways. There are also other factors that can reduce converstion of alpha-linolenic acid into EPA, and even if it does convert to DHA, the pathway is long enough that very little actually ends up as DHA (meaning alpha-linolenic acid is at best a poor source of DHA, and at worst zero source).

With this in mind, it's more proper to say that EPA and DHA are the true essential omega-3 fats.

Awesome post! I try and explain this to customers everyday - they usually give me the blank stare. LOL!

apex23
03-22-2009, 12:46 PM
Charles Poloquin believes in taking in 40 grams of fish oil a day....Sounds pretty excessive.

Frosty
03-22-2009, 12:52 PM
Charles Poloquin believes in taking in 40 grams of fish oil a day....Sounds pretty excessive.


Would you consider eating about a pound a day of salmon excessive?

natron
03-22-2009, 01:04 PM
fish oil at 40 grams per day acts as an anti-androgen, hell, even 20 grams/day is exessive

Frosty
03-22-2009, 01:15 PM
fish oil at 40 grams per day acts as an anti-androgen, hell, even 20 grams/day is exessive

What evidence do you have to support this?

Charles Poliquin uses high doses of fish oil to help athletes gain muscle while losing fat. If it hurt things, Poliquin wouldn't use it.

natron
03-22-2009, 01:19 PM
1: Carcinogenesis. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Carcinogenes is.');) 2001 Aug;22(8):1201-6.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corehtml/query/egifs/http:--highwire.stanford.edu-icons-externalservices-pubmed-custom-oxfordjournals_final_free.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3051&itool=AbstractPlus-def&uid=11470750&db=pubmed&url=http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=11470750) Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu11470750);)
Effects of docosahexaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid on androgen-mediated cell growth and gene expression in LNCaP prostate cancer cells.

Chung BH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Chung%20BH%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Mitchell SH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Mitchell%20SH%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Zhang JS (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Zhang%20JS%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Young CY (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Young%20CY%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
Department of Urology and Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Mayo Foundation, Guggenheim Building 1742B, 200 First Street SW, Rochester, MN 55905, USA.
There is some epidemiological support for a protective influence of omega-3 fatty acids against prostate cancer. We wanted to explore whether omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids such as docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) can affect androgen receptor function in prostate cancer cells. Our study showed that both DHA and EPA inhibit androgen-stimulated cell growth. Androgenic induction of prostate-specific antigen (PSA) protein was repressed by DHA and EPA in a dose-dependent manner. The mRNA levels of five androgen up-regulated genes, PSA, ornithine decarboxylase, NKX 3.1, immunophilin fkbp 51 and Drg-1, were decreased with DHA treatment in the presence of androgens. Transfection experiments using a DNA vector containing androgen-responsive elements demonstrated that both DHA and EPA could interfere with transactivation activities of the androgen receptor (AR). However, western blot analysis of AR protein showed that DHA and EPA treatments did not change AR expression levels. Interestingly, the proto-oncoprotein c-jun was increased by DHA treatment. A transient transfection found that forced expression of c-jun inhibited AR transactivation activity. Thus, this study found that the inhibitory effects of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids on AR-mediated actions are due, at least in part, to an increase in c-jun protein.
And just cause Charles does something doesnt mean he is correct. We all do things at some point that nagate our desired effects. Such is life.

natron
03-22-2009, 01:21 PM
There was a very informative debate on this subject over at mindandmuscle, I'll see if I can find it.

natron
03-22-2009, 02:02 PM
McVey MJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22McVey%20MJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Cooke GM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Cooke%20GM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Curran IH (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Curran%20IH%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Chan HM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Chan%20HM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Kubow S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Kubow%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Lok E (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Lok%20E%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Mehta R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Mehta%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus). Toxicology Research Division, Health Products and Foods Branch, Food Directorate, Health Canada, Sir Fredrick G. Banting Research Centre, 2202D1 Tunney's Pasture, Ottawa, ON, Canada K1A 0L2.
It is known that certain dietary fats can modulate rat testosterone metabolism. In the current study we have investigated testicular steroidogenic enzyme activities and serum testosterone levels in rats fed diets containing either different protein sources (casein, fishmeal, whey) or different lipid sources (soybean oil, docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), seal oil, fish oil, lard). The diets examined reflect different marine oils and proteins which are significant components of Northern Canadian diets. Male rats (42-45 days old, 6 per group), were assigned to specific diets for 42 days. On the 43rd day of the study, rats were sacrificed and blood plasma and testes frozen (-80 degrees C) until analysis. Microsomal steroidogenic enzyme activities (3beta-HSD, 17-OHase, C-17,20-lyase, 17beta-HSD) were measured radiometrically. There were no differences in enzyme activities between the three dietary protein sources. In contrast, compared with the standard casein diet, all lipid sources caused reductions in C-17,20-lyase activity (>50%); seal oil and fish oil reduced 17-OHase activity (approximately 30%) and soybean oil, DHA fish oil and lard reduced 17beta-HSD activity (approximately 30%). No effect on 3beta-HSD activity was evident. Serum testosterone levels were determined using ELISA kits and were not affected by any diet with the exception of the soybean oil diet which was significantly elevated compared with the casein protein diet. Body and testis weights were not affected by diet. In conclusion, these data demonstrate that some dietary lipid sources caused reductions in testicular 17-OHase and C-17,20-lyase activities but not to the extent that serum T levels were affected, while soybean oil caused elevated serum testosterone in the absence of elevated steroidogenic enzyme activities.

apex23
03-22-2009, 04:55 PM
Would you consider eating about a pound a day of salmon excessive?


So you think a pound of Salmon has about 40 grams of healthy fat?

Frosty
03-22-2009, 06:21 PM
So you think a pound of Salmon has about 40 grams of healthy fat?

Yeah, depends on the salmon, though. The right salmon can be pretty close. So make it 2 lbs of salmon. Not a lot of meat. These are fats, not vitamin or mineral supplements that are required in much lower amounts.

BoneBz
03-22-2009, 06:24 PM
I take 6 1,000mg fish oil tabs 4 times a day(I take them with my meals where my protein comes from chicken)

apex23
03-22-2009, 10:01 PM
Yeah, depends on the salmon, though. The right salmon can be pretty close. So make it 2 lbs of salmon. Not a lot of meat. These are fats, not vitamin or mineral supplements that are required in much lower amounts.


On a serious note, I have always wondered how much of Omega 3's are destroyed during cooking...

apex23
03-22-2009, 10:03 PM
Anyone here take Palumbo's Omegalyze? If so, do you feel it is superior to other fish oils? Thanks


It is a very good product but it is way over priced

I can buy good quality fish oil and evening primrose at Costco.

apex23
03-22-2009, 10:05 PM
Thats whey isolate, 5 times more benefits than fish oil. Check Pubmed. I'll start a seperate thread later, but I can literally talk for hours... Too busy at the moment. I'll get it going by tomorrow. Thanks for the interest

Rick


You are comparing apples to oranges!! I thought you wanted to know about Fish oil.

I think you know by now that you need to be taking it.

natron
03-23-2009, 01:09 PM
Fish oil is very important, personally I'd put whey isolate ahead of it, but to each their own.

Remember, fish oil has a literal ton of benefits, and at high doses works very well as an "anti fat gain" supplement.

10-12 grams per day, IMO

Rick

Wurd, I've used fish oil religiously for the past 6-7 years

natron
03-23-2009, 01:17 PM
I'll even throw up some more fish oil benefits some people may not be aware of.

1. PPAR alpha lignan, increases fat burning enzymes ( similar to fibrates)

2.lower PPAR-gamma expression reducing fat cells afinity for fat storage.

3. encorporation in to membranes increases RMR by increasing calcium leakage (ala T3).

4.increase insulin and leptin sensitivity by providing a more fluid membrane and by direct effects on ones pancreas.

5.correct histamine signaling problems (this is a big one in my book, as it has a huge impact in the body as well as the mind, ex. reduced H1 activation in the brain reduces impact of trauma and shock on an indivduals psyche. basically you dont focus on things that make you afraid as much).

6. are affordable for long term usage!!!!

Youngguns
03-23-2009, 02:27 PM
Yeah, depends on the salmon, though. The right salmon can be pretty close. So make it 2 lbs of salmon. Not a lot of meat. These are fats, not vitamin or mineral supplements that are required in much lower amounts.
I think you're taking it too far. It's not natural to eat 2lbs of salmon per day.

I also agree that fish oils are more important than whey, it's obvious. You can get your aminos from meat. OR you can eat salmon and get the best of both worlds.

Over 10g's of oil per day sounds excessive.

Frosty
03-23-2009, 02:35 PM
I think you're taking it too far. It's not natural to eat 2lbs of salmon per day.

I also agree that fish oils are more important than whey, it's obvious. You can get your aminos from meat. OR you can eat salmon and get the best of both worlds.

Over 10g's of oil per day sounds excessive.

2 lbs of meat a day is excessive? Eskimos do that. I'm sure if you lived on the coast many years ago you'd be eating quite a bit of fish.... I can't see how a mere 2 lbs is unnatural. That's just 2 decent meals for people doing physical work all day.

If you ate the skin of the salmon, and ate the belly and head meat, which I guarantee people 40,000 years ago didn't throw this out...you'd get probably 40g of fat with a pound or so of meat.

Count eating brains, marrow, and other such things and these doses of fish oil aren't excessive.

Hell Eskimos ate diets very high in omega-3s because of eating seal, fish, and whale. Their diets were often 80% fat. I'd bet a small amount of money they got well over 10g worth of fish oil.

fitiron
03-23-2009, 02:50 PM
Anyone here take Palumbo's Omegalyze? If so, do you feel it is superior to other fish oils? Thanks

I use it, and will not use any other fish oil supp at this point.

I went through a bottle, then back to another, and I can honestly say I felt a difference.

Now I am back to using Omegalzye and will stay with it.

IMO the one ingredient that makes a difference is the Evening Primrose that is added.

Def not the cheapest, but I am more interested in the performance and results.

natron
03-23-2009, 04:56 PM
I've used Webber Naturals for years. Just a cost efficiency thing, $12 gets me 360 grams. I've used it for years with no issues, so I continue to use this brand, and it's available right down the street so I never run out or have to order.

And one reson I feel whey isolate is most important (for me at least), is because the GSH raising properties are not acheivable through other protein sources, and the immuno stimulating properties aren't either.

For me, a healthy immune system and organ protection avoids most ailments or disease, and at the same time I get my training needs met, best of both worlds.

I'll say it again though, both these supplements are most important to me, and I never go without either one.

apex23
03-23-2009, 05:28 PM
2 lbs of meat a day is excessive? Eskimos do that. I'm sure if you lived on the coast many years ago you'd be eating quite a bit of fish.... I can't see how a mere 2 lbs is unnatural. That's just 2 decent meals for people doing physical work all day.

If you ate the skin of the salmon, and ate the belly and head meat, which I guarantee people 40,000 years ago didn't throw this out...you'd get probably 40g of fat with a pound or so of meat.

Count eating brains, marrow, and other such things and these doses of fish oil aren't excessive.

Hell Eskimos ate diets very high in omega-3s because of eating seal, fish, and whale. Their diets were often 80% fat. I'd bet a small amount of money they got well over 10g worth of fish oil.

I would bet you are correct on this one.

natron
03-23-2009, 05:32 PM
They also had very different needs than "us". But yeah, your probably right. To me, eating that much fish would be a nightmare, I'll stick to softgels, and knowing exactly what I'm getting.

Remember, Eskimo's also had hairy foreheads!

Frosty
03-24-2009, 12:36 AM
They also had very different needs than "us". But yeah, your probably right. To me, eating that much fish would be a nightmare, I'll stick to softgels, and knowing exactly what I'm getting.

Remember, Eskimo's also had hairy foreheads!

Eskimos do have genetic differences from other races, true. However not just Eskimos eat a lot of fish. Traditional Gaelics ate lots of fish because they were on rocky islands and you didn't have many other sources. You'd eat whatever you could get, and if you're near water, that means fish. I was saying this because Youngguns said it isn't natural to eat 2 lbs of fish a day.

natron
03-24-2009, 06:11 AM
Eskimos do have genetic differences from other races, true. However not just Eskimos eat a lot of fish. Traditional Gaelics ate lots of fish because they were on rocky islands and you didn't have many other sources. You'd eat whatever you could get, and if you're near water, that means fish. I was saying this because Youngguns said it isn't natural to eat 2 lbs of fish a day.

I got ya. Fuck, I grew up near a trophy lake and grew up on probably 4-5lbs of walleye per day. Never fucked me up, and it's damned tasty.

NPCKnight
03-24-2009, 04:41 PM
I like Dave Palumbo and his product line but I will not overpay for good product. You can get 1000 pharmecutical grade fish oils from trueprotein for $25 bucks. And you can get 120 1300mg NOW foods Superprimrose for $12-15 bucks.

In this economy, I don't see why a product would be brought to market at the profit margin he dictates with the other JUST AS GOOD quality stuff out there that you can buy individually and make MUCH MUCH more affordable.

beau
03-24-2009, 05:18 PM
I thought I read somewhere you could get internal bleeding from excessive omega 3 intake....whats optimal dosage? Doesn't dave recommend 3g/day on his diet

Frosty
03-24-2009, 07:39 PM
I thought I read somewhere you could get internal bleeding from excessive omega 3 intake....

Maybe if your high omega-3 intake coincided with getting hit by a car.

beau
03-24-2009, 11:29 PM
lol sweet

luv2lft
03-24-2009, 11:48 PM
if I take fish oil pills will it make me burk fish smell or taste?

smvmuscle
03-26-2009, 02:10 PM
i love fish oil take in twice a day 3 in the am 3 at night with last meal. im thinking of adding more maybe 2 with every meal. i know RR is a big advocate of taking lots and lots of fish oil.

it is a wise investment and its farily cheap i pick mine up at costco 400 softgels for $8.00
its a Fish oil 1000mg/ omega 3 300mg combo

Frosty
03-26-2009, 03:36 PM
I don't know why you guys buy the cheap fish oil capsules. You have to take twice as many as a better brand to get the same result. I dunno about you guys, but I'd rather have that extra fat come from macadamia nuts, almonds, etc that are filling and taste good!!