Competing Master's

[joe leger]

I competed many years ago in the late 70s and 80s..Just recently got back into competing in Master's..Won Louisiana over 60s Competed In Master's Nationals and placed 2nd in heavyweight over 60's. Very excited about competing next year Nationals. My question for someone that has experience..I am a diabetic 2 since I was 50 ..i use insulin to control and diet..how can i better make use of my insulin to make gains?

[Mac]

Welcome Joe.

I wouldn't mess with the insulin, but I am not a diabetic.

You were in Pittsburgh?

[joedemarco]

I competed many years ago in the late 70s and 80s..Just recently got back into competing in Master's..Won Louisiana over 60s Competed In Master's Nationals and placed 2nd in heavyweight over 60's. Very excited about competing next year Nationals. My question for someone that has experience..I am a diabetic 2 since I was 50 ..i use insulin to control and diet..how can i better make use of my insulin to make gains?

Welcome to the board. In regards to the insulin, I think since you are a diabetic you are playing with fire. Much better ways of making gains without such a high risk.

[Baldiewonkanobi]

Welcome....we missed having you in the 2010 NPC Masters Nationals group. Competitors and friends numbered about 25. Perhaps we will grow this number in 2011. If the planets line up I might drop down from the Over 70s and give you kids in the 60s a run for your money.

The insulin question must be answered by someone with experience...not I. Off hand I don't know if we have any diabetic Maters men or women in here. We shall see.

Baldie

[rcp1936]

My understanding is that type 2 can very often be reversed with proper diet and exercise

Check out this site and this guys story

http://www.deathtodiabetes.com/

[s2h]

Welcome to the board. In regards to the insulin, I think since you are a diabetic you are playing with fire. Much better ways of making gains without such a high risk.i agree only use insulin when neccesary..your playing russian roulete...

[JoeB8962]

I competed many years ago in the late 70s and 80s..Just recently got back into competing in Master's..Won Louisiana over 60s Competed In Master's Nationals and placed 2nd in heavyweight over 60's. Very excited about competing next year Nationals. My question for someone that has experience..I am a diabetic 2 since I was 50 ..i use insulin to control and diet..how can i better make use of my insulin to make gains?

Hey Joe,

I grew up in Louisiana and got my introduction to Bodybuilding just about the time you were competing. There was a fellow from the gym I went to, first Bodybuilder I ever saw and met and was hooked from that moment on I'm pretty sure he won Mr Louisiana or maybe it was just his class around that time, his name was Dr. Shaul Shea, do you remember him?

[esplendido]

If you can time your therapeutic insulin dose to immediately following your workout, following that with a post workout meal/drink of 40g/whey and 40g simple carb, you'll maximize your recovery and growth.

[axioma]

welcome.
If you have experience using slin, then, IMO, you are ahead of the game...already aware of the therapeutic aspects. Timing: 1st thing a.m. and, as 'dido said, post workout is key to maximizing growth.

I would try asking one of the experts..Dave Palumbo would probably be the most forthcoming, however he hasn't answered q and a in awhile. search his thread for a protocol. the other gurus are full of shit or in denial...it IS used and frequently.

I do think slin is over rated. at your age, I would guess that there are so many other ways to maximize growth, diet, less is more training, aas, glucophage...IMO...

[GerryT]

Congrats on all you placings. Did very well at Masters Nats and sould definitely return next year. Best of luck. And beware of Baldie!

[joe leger]

Thanks guys for the comments..the insulin has been part of my diabetic treatment for years,,so found it was better controling than pills..I see there are bodybuilders using insulin that are not diabetic..that practice i would be cautious about..But since i already use it for treatment. I was wondering the best way to use for maximum gains.. I always check blood sugar and make sure it is in a normal range before hitting a high carb post workout drink..Then take about 5 units of insulin ..
Yes , i was in Nationals Masters this year ,,took 2nd place in heavyweight over 60 and planning on going back next year..It was a great learning experience and will be coming in much better next year. My real name is Shelton Leger..Joe is for the forums.

[joe leger]

Thanks for the info ,, that is what i have been doing..just wanted to see if anyone else had any experience with it..I take insulin because it is part of my treatment,,not because i want to..I did find while dieting for the Nationals ..i did not need as much insulin,,dieting and exercise can reduce diabetic type 2 needs.. And I would not recommend anyone taking insulin unless a diabetic..i worked in medical field for many years and know for a fact the pills that are given for diabetics have too many other side effects..So a lil morning shot is no big thing to me..

[joe leger]

I do not remember the fellow mentioned..I trained at Red's in Lafayette..During the early 70's was a training partner to Boyer Coe and later Casey Viator.. During the 70s and 80s competing a lot and won many titles..Kinda got burned out and quit competing until recently in Master events..Winning the Mr Louisiana Masters over 60 last year and also competed in 2010 Nationals Master's in Pittsburg taking 2nd place in heavyweights over 60..So am training hard and hoping to return to Nationals next year.

[rcp1936]

Thanks guys for the comments..the insulin has been part of my diabetic treatment for years,,so found it was better controling than pills..I see there are bodybuilders using insulin that are not diabetic..that practice i would be cautious about..But since i already use it for treatment. I was wondering the best way to use for maximum gains.. I always check blood sugar and make sure it is in a normal range before hitting a high carb post workout drink..Then take about 5 units of insulin ..
Yes , i was in Nationals Masters this year ,,took 2nd place in heavyweight over 60 and planning on going back next year..It was a great learning experience and will be coming in much better next year. My real name is Shelton Leger..Joe is for the forums.
My brother started off on pills then insulin and it just gets worse

After a heart attack and major bypass and major complications now chronic heart failure he is at 3 shots a day

Insulin does nothing to attack the cause of type 2 diabetes which in a lot of cases can be reversed and controlled without drugs

His attitude was heck eat what I want just take the pills or later the shots to control things

[rcp1936]

My brother started off on pills then insulin and it just gets worse

After a heart attack and major bypass and major complications now chronic heart failure he is at 3 shots a day

Insulin does nothing to attack the cause of type 2 diabetes which in a lot of cases can be reversed and controlled without drugs

His attitude was heck eat what I want just take the pills or later the shots to control things
I should add there is a reason type 2 diabetics have much higher incidence of heart attacks and strokes --the insulin attacks the blood vessels

[bryantone]

Could the "heck eat what I want" attitude be a contributor to his heart attacks. BBrs seem to do alot of cardio, so this may help keep a healthy heart.

[rcp1936]

Could the "heck eat what I want" attitude be a contributor to his heart attacks. BBrs seem to do alot of cardio, so this may help keep a healthy heart.
And that is what he is doing with his post workout food etc
The big % difference in heart attacks and stroke for type 2 diabetics in general is alarming and I think the poster should be a lot more worried about that and how to get off the drugs and not how he can use the insulin to gain muscle
He is messing with his health

[Jude2]

Hey Shelton you are a big guy. You looked alot better at the Masters National than you did at the greater gulf states. If you come in a little harder you will give them hell.

[bryantone]

And that is what he is doing with his post workout food etc
The big % difference in heart attacks and stroke for type 2 diabetics in general is alarming and I think the poster should be a lot more worried about that and how to get off the drugs and not how he can use the insulin to gain muscle
He is messing with his health
The way I read his question was more about timing his insulin rather than abusing it. I think Esplendido answered it ... and as usual, spot on

[rcp1936]

The way I read his question was more about timing his insulin rather than abusing it. I think Esplendido answered it ... and as usual, spot on
Same difference

[rcp1936]

The way I read his question was more about timing his insulin rather than abusing it. I think Esplendido answered it ... and as usual, spot on
NO it was not spot on

Did you bother to read what I posted

The poster has already stated that the pills can't control his diabetes any longer that is why he is on insulin

That means the disease is progressing and will continue to progress
And more insulin will be needed unless he takes measures to reverse the disease

There is a reason that type 2 have more heart attacks and strokes

"Spot On Advice" would be advising him to look into the protocols for arresting and even reversing the disease

Poster over at the other BB site has shown it can be done and there is also ample proof of that on the web if he searches

[joe leger]

Really appreciate all the input...my diabeties came about genetics..i did fit the mold ..always exercised and most of time watched my diet and monitored my blood sugar. I have stress test done yearly and my heart and blood panels are all great except blood sugar levels get out there sometime. Yes i guess could drop to 125 pounds ...never been overweight for my height 6ft tall ..Believe me guys ..taking insulin because if you follow what is going on with pills ..well not good..I take insulin only as needed..and that maybe only about 5 to 10 units a day. So i look at taking a disadvantage and trying to turn into positive. Am aware of non diabetics taking insulin for growth..and that would not recommend.

[joe leger]

Hey Shelton you are a big guy. You looked alot better at the Masters National than you did at the greater gulf states. If you come in a little harder you will give them hell.
Thanks, entered the Greater Gulf States as a barometer ..and made my corrections after that show.. First thing i did after Nationals was join up a commercial gym,,had been training in my home gym..it took me to a certain level now ready for a bigger jump. Still trying to find out the right combo to come in harder and drier..This year will work on gaining weight and size . Right now would give them hell..looking alot better now!! I was excited with my placing at the Nationals..not knowing what to expect first time in it..

[Mac]

Still trying to find out the right combo to come in harder and drier..This year will work on gaining weight and size .

Therein lies the dichotomy. If you want to come in harder and drier you need to not gain so much weight in the off-season.

We all want to gain size but often times I see too many go overboard and then have a hard time getting ripped up without losing a lot of hard earned muscle.

[rcp1936]

Really appreciate all the input...my diabeties came about genetics..i did fit the mold ..always exercised and most of time watched my diet and monitored my blood sugar. I have stress test done yearly and my heart and blood panels are all great except blood sugar levels get out there sometime. Yes i guess could drop to 125 pounds ...never been overweight for my height 6ft tall ..Believe me guys ..taking insulin because if you follow what is going on with pills ..well not good..I take insulin only as needed..and that maybe only about 5 to 10 units a day. So i look at taking a disadvantage and trying to turn into positive. Am aware of non diabetics taking insulin for growth..and that would not recommend.
I can see you really don't want to investigate alternatives to the insulin use
In my opinion you still have it in the back of your mind that since you are using it for Type 2 that you are going to be able to juggle it to your advantage to gain muscle and or you would rather just use it than make other life style changes

But in case you want to try and get off the insulin here is another site

www.drwhitaker.com

[joe leger]

Therein lies the dichotomy. If you want to come in harder and drier you need to not gain so much weight in the off-season.

We all want to gain size but often times I see too many go overboard and then have a hard time getting ripped up without losing a lot of hard earned muscle.
Not planning on getting more than 2 to 4 weeks away from contest shape..i never was a a fast weight gainer.. I never could understand guys bulking up then killing themselves to lose the fat. I currently am eating 6 meals a day high protein, low to moderate carbs.. And keeping my abds in sight..My workouts are very intense , not much rest periods..For a guy 63 years old can put alot of the younger lions in the gym to shame..

[v1hyp]

Welcome and congrats on your comeback and win! Good luck

[joe leger]

If you can time your therapeutic insulin dose to immediately following your workout, following that with a post workout meal/drink of 40g/whey and 40g simple carb, you'll maximize your recovery and growth.
Thank u .that was an answer i was hoping to find..

[joe leger]

NO it was not spot on

Did you bother to read what I posted

The poster has already stated that the pills can't control his diabetes any longer that is why he is on insulin

That means the disease is progressing and will continue to progress
And more insulin will be needed unless he takes measures to reverse the disease

There is a reason that type 2 have more heart attacks and strokes

"Spot On Advice" would be advising him to look into the protocols for arresting and even reversing the disease

Poster over at the other BB site has shown it can be done and there is also ample proof of that on the web if he searches
Not that the pills did not work..my dr put me on insulin from day one(13 years ago)...there are more side effects from pills. My blood sugars are kept in control a1C always low..I know that insulin is being used by alot of non diabetic bodybuilders..Which i do not advocate. I was looking to take advantage of the insulin i do use. Iam in excellent health cardio wise ..just this diabetic genetic gene kicked in when i was 50 years old. After much research ..find insulin better than the pills for me anyway. In fact u have a bigger chance of a diabetic coma with the pills , unless u foolishly take too much insulin. Alot of pros and cons , But when someone says playing russian roulette with insulin ,, i agree if your not a diabetic..

[joe leger]

I can see you really don't want to investigate alternatives to the insulin use
In my opinion you still have it in the back of your mind that since you are using it for Type 2 that you are going to be able to juggle it to your advantage to gain muscle and or you would rather just use it than make other life style changes

But in case you want to try and get off the insulin here is another site

www.drwhitaker.com
I have tried many supplements to help and get away from insulin..sorry to say never had great results...diet and exercise do help and that is why i do not need more than maybe 5 units a day..prn only if i bust my diet.
Alot of these so called treatments just do not cut it ...

[rcp1936]

I have tried many supplements to help and get away from insulin..sorry to say never had great results...diet and exercise do help and that is why i do not need more than maybe 5 units a day..prn only if i bust my diet.
Alot of these so called treatments just do not cut it ...
Well if you tried I guess you are where you are and have things under control

[HeavyDutyGuy]

You know you cant do keto safely though while on insulin? So if you need it to manage your diabetes take it- and get your doctors instructions and follow them- DONT seek advice for that on bodybuilding boards. There are few doctors here, and I dotn they would advise online. This isnt one to play with. ..

[joedemarco]

You know you cant do keto safely though while on insulin? So if you need it to manage your diabetes take it- and get your doctors instructions and follow them- DONT seek advice for that on bodybuilding boards. There are few doctors here, and I dotn they would advise online. This isnt one to play with. ..

Couldn't agree with you more HDG!

[joe leger]

You know you cant do keto safely though while on insulin? So if you need it to manage your diabetes take it- and get your doctors instructions and follow them- DONT seek advice for that on bodybuilding boards. There are few doctors here, and I dotn they would advise online. This isnt one to play with. ..
Never did a keto diet..always have some carbs from some sources..i may go low carb . always monitoring my blood sugar. I am reading on a few posts that insulin should not be taken 3 days before a show ..insulin will hold water..any thoughts on that one.

[bryantone]

health first, body building second.