Question about nutrition

[caribeman]

Im always trying to read/learn more about nutrition as this (least for me) plays the biggest part in this lifestyle.

How have you figured out your nutrition needs (carbs/Protein/Fats) percentage? Has it been a trial and error, hired someone, read a book? I would think there are some basic "standards" but even these will not apply to all the same. How much of each are your currently intaking?

[esplendido]

Im always trying to read/learn more about nutrition as this (least for me) plays the biggest part in this lifestyle.

How have you figured out your nutrition needs (carbs/Protein/Fats) percentage? Has it been a trial and error, hired someone, read a book? I would think there are some basic "standards" but even these will not apply to all the same. How much of each are your currently intaking?

Bulking:

2g protein per pound of lean mass per day
200g EFA's/day
Carbs as needed to grow (ave. 2lbs/week gain)

Cutting:

1.5g protein per pound of lean mass/day
150g EFA's/day
Carb cycle as needed to lose fat. (=/< 2lbs. week)

Carb amounts are determined by the individual through trial and error.

[Baldiewonkanobi]

Bulking:

2g protein per pound of lean mass per day
200g EFA's/day
Carbs as needed to grow (ave. 2lbs/week gain)

Cutting:

1.5g protein per pound of lean mass/day
150g EFA's/day
Carb cycle as needed to lose fat. (=/< 2lbs. week)

Carb amounts are determined by the individual through trial and error.

Esp...is this a typo? I take 2g EFAs daily. The entire bottle has 144 capsules @ 1g each.

Agree with protein/carb management.

Baldie

[caribeman]

Good information. I log all my meals based on my trials and errors as well. But there are "gurus" who claim they can design your perfect nutrition plan. I have to give that a big "Hmmmm"....

[HeavyDutyGuy]

200 grams of fat? -1800 calories just from fats???? got to be a typo.

[Youngguns]

Bulking: 1.75g protein per lbs (if you're lean)
0.5g fat
1-2+g carbs.

Cutting:
1.75g protein
0.25 fat
1g carbs

Ish. Try it all out and see how you respond. 15 calories per lbs of lean mass for maintenance, 10-14 for cutting and 15-20 for bulking. Ish.

[Down4whatever]

I think Ricks high fat totals are a derivative of Keto:

Bulking for 180# lean mass guy -

180 x 2 = 360g pro x 4 calories = 1,440 calories
200g fat x 9 = 1,800 calories
150g carbs (estimate) x 4 calories = 600 calories


3,840 calories for growth.

[caribeman]

Bulking: 1.75g protein per lbs (if you're lean)
0.5g fat
1-2+g carbs.

Cutting:
1.75g protein
0.25 fat
1g carbs

Ish. Try it all out and see how you respond. 15 calories per lbs of lean mass for maintenance, 10-14 for cutting and 15-20 for bulking. Ish.

I am assuming youre talking about per LBS on the fat as well as carbs....

[caribeman]

I think Ricks high fat totals are a derivative of Keto:

Bulking for 180# lean mass guy -

180 x 2 = 360g pro x 4 calories = 1,440 calories
200g fat x 9 = 1,800 calories
150g carbs (estimate) x 4 calories = 600 calories


3,840 calories for growth.

What would you say for cutting then?

[caribeman]

200 grams of fat? -1800 calories just from fats???? got to be a typo.

I know I cant (dont want to) eat 33 grams of fat 6 times a day :no:

[Down4whatever]

I know I cant (dont want to) eat 33 grams of fat 6 times a day :no:

Pffffttt that's just over 1/2 cup almonds.....shit I could eat 2# of almonds :yep:

[Down4whatever]

What would you say for cutting then?

Just plug in his numbers....



Cutting:

1.5g protein per pound of lean mass/day
150g EFA's/day
Carb cycle as needed to lose fat. (=/< 2lbs. week)

Carb amounts are determined by the individual through trial and error.


Cutting for 180# lean mass guy -

180 x 1.5 = 270g pro x 4 calories = 1,080 calories
150g fat x 9 = 1,350 calories
100g carbs (estimate) x 4 calories = 400 calories


2,830 calories for cutting.

[caribeman]

Pffffttt that's just over 1/2 cup almonds.....shit I could eat 2# of almonds :yep:

I'll crap a brick if I do that :no: Would you not count omega3 such as pills towards the fat intake?

[Down4whatever]

I'll crap a brick if I do that :no: Would you not count omega3 such as pills towards the fat intake?

Of course you would; I was just pointing out how insignificant 33g of fat really is.

As we all know, dietary fat (EFA's) do not just arbitrarily make you fat.

[caribeman]

got ya. Have you used this calorie protocol before?

[Down4whatever]

got ya. Have you used this calorie protocol before?

Following something pretty similar; not exactly, but close and my calories are around 2600-2700 for cutting. Losing a steady 1# per week.

[caribeman]

Great man, really appreciate your input as well as others. Would still love to hear from other masters here.

[HeavyDutyGuy]

Just plug in his numbers....




Cutting for 180# lean mass guy -

180 x 1.5 = 270g pro x 4 calories = 1,080 calories
150g fat x 9 = 1,350 calories
100g carbs (estimate) x 4 calories = 400 calories


2,830 calories for cutting.

Wow i gain weight on that many calories..

[caribeman]

HD I can agree with you. I have to watch what I eat (micro wise) or it can back fire on me. Would you like to share what works for you?

[caribeman]

Also, besides food, how I feel and what the scale says I also check my BF%. Not the same a 200 pound dude with 20%BF and a 200 pound dude at 8%BF.

[HeavyDutyGuy]

HD I can agree with you. I have to watch what I eat (micro wise) or it can back fire on me. Would you like to share what works for you?
Honestly, if you go by the feedback on my threads, maybe you should ask someone else. I can get my clients lean, but apparently not me.

[caribeman]

Got ya, you look pretty lean on them pics. For me I have to stay below or around 2k cals....

[freebirdmac]

Got ya, you look pretty lean on them pics. For me I have to stay below or around 2k cals....

This is a red flag to me. I don't know your age/height/weight or workout routine, but guys who have to be at 2000 cals or less to lose a pound a week have something messed up. Either you're not counting/measuring/weighing correctly, you've lowballed cals for too long, don't put that much effort into working out, or have some sort of medical issue. I can understand a sedentary guy needing less than 200 cals, but not someone in this lifestyle. Unless it's later in contest prep.

I'm a small, hypothyroid, menopausal woman and maintain at 1800 with a 4-day workout. No super metabolism here. I personally prefer a balanced 40/30/30 type diet whether I'm "bulking" or trying to lean out.

[joedemarco]

Wow i gain weight on that many calories..

I'm with you on that...I am at about 180 pounds right now and am taking in a heck of a lot less calories then that....

Of course, everyone is different in how they respond to various macros...

[joedemarco]

This is a red flag to me. I don't know your age/height/weight or workout routine, but guys who have to be at 2000 cals or less to lose a pound a week have something messed up. Either you're not counting/measuring/weighing correctly, you've lowballed cals for too long, don't put that much effort into working out, or have some sort of medical issue. I can understand a sedentary guy needing less than 200 cals, but not someone in this lifestyle. Unless it's later in contest prep.

I'm a small, hypothyroid, menopausal woman and maintain at 1800 with a 4-day workout. No super metabolism here. I personally prefer a balanced 40/30/30 type diet whether I'm "bulking" or trying to lean out.

You make a good point. Personally, at 6 weeks out and trying to strip every ounce of fat off of my body, I can no longer be over 2,000 cals/day.....and yes....it sucks to be me right now!

[mr intensity]

esplendido is a big guy and his fat and protien intake are correct for him,

how ever the keto diet formula that works great for most people
protien = 1.5 x lean body mass
fats = 0.5 x lean body mass
no direct sources of carbs,

so for a 200 or a 220 pound guy with 180 pound of lean bodymass.
has to eat protien = 1.5 x 180 = 270 grams protien
fats = 0.5 x 180 = 90 grams of fats ( monounsaturated fats mainly + omegas )

just that the 220 pounder will need more time than the 200 pound guy to come down to 4 percent bodyfat.


approx 1100 cals (protien) and 810 cal (fats)
so a total of 1910 calories/day


so for a 300 pound guy with 250 lbs lean bodymass
protien = 1.5 x 250 = 375 grams x 4 = 1500 cal
fats = 0.5 x 250 = 125 grams x 9 = 1125 cal
so total calorie intake is 2625 cal.....

this is the general formula that works for most people,
esplendidos protien intake is 400 grams , and fats 150 grams... very close to the one that is needed for a 250 lbs guy,
as far as i remember he does his modified version of keto diet, he used to have a cheat day instead of a single 7th day last cheat meal, or cycling with the carbs.
he has also mentioned he has ectomorphic tendencies which is the basic reason for the modifications he has made.

however his fat (150 grams) is too much for a 180 lbs guy,

[mr intensity]

once the macro ratios are set on the keto diet,
protien= 1.5 grams x lean body mass
fats= 0.5 grams x lean body mass

-slow weekly increments of cardio are usually made as per required, people have maximzed upto 2 hours/day of low intensity cardio/day starting from 30mins/day

-fat burners like clenbutrol and cytomel are added and slowly increased untill doseages maximized to the upper limits.

even with this if the person is not able to reach upto the desired 4 percent bodyfat then protien/vegge days are incorporated, alternate pro/vegge and pro/fat days.

now mentaining your lifting poundages to thier upper limits(almost) is important because it is the direct indication of whether or not you are mentaining your muscle mass or not.
dietary modifications are made as less as possible on a keto diet because if you restict your diet too severly (less than the above ratios) you will loose strength=loosing muscle mass, hence pro vegge days are avoided as much as possible.

slow increments on cardio and fat burners have a minimal negative effect on your lifting poundages = muscle mass.

so it come down to
- following a calorie deficet diet yet mentaining high protien intake and moderate fats.

- mentaining muscle mass while mentaining your lifting poundages to their almost best.

- keep loosing 2 lbs fat untill you reach upto your desired bodyfat levels.

[freebirdmac]

esplendido is a big guy and his fat and protien intake are correct for him,

how ever the keto diet formula that works great for most people
protien = 1.5 x lean body mass
fats = 0.5 x lean body mass
no direct sources of carbs,

so for a 200 or a 220 pound guy with 180 pound of lean bodymass.
has to eat protien = 1.5 x 180 = 270 grams protien
fats = 0.5 x 180 = 90 grams of fats ( monounsaturated fats mainly + omegas )

just that the 220 pounder will need more time than the 200 pound guy to come down to 4 percent bodyfat.


approx 1100 cals (protien) and 810 cal (fats)
so a total of 1910 calories/day


so for a 300 pound guy with 250 lbs lean bodymass
protien = 1.5 x 250 = 375 grams x 4 = 1500 cal
fats = 0.5 x 250 = 125 grams x 9 = 1125 cal
so total calorie intake is 2625 cal.....

this is the general formula that works for most people,
esplendidos protien intake is 400 grams , and fats 150 grams... very close to the one that is needed for a 250 lbs guy,
as far as i remember he does his modified version of keto diet, he used to have a cheat day instead of a single 7th day last cheat meal, or cycling with the carbs.
he has also mentioned he has ectomorphic tendencies which is the basic reason for the modifications he has made.

however his fat (150 grams) is too much for a 180 lbs guy,

Yikes! Using that formula I'd only be eating 945 cals a day :eek: It seems to be 500 cals on the low side. Or geared towards losing 1.5 pounds of fat a week which is pretty fast. That definitely takes me (and I suspect others) below my basal metabolic rate which is not good. Not for someone just trying to lose fat and not in contest prep.

[mr intensity]

200 grams of fat? -1800 calories just from fats???? got to be a typo.

i think offseason time esplendido weighs around 300lbs so even if he consumes
fats = 300 x 0.65 = 195 - 200 grams of healthy fats, i dont think there is anything wrong with that.

[mr intensity]

Yikes! Using that formula I'd only be eating 945 cals a day :eek: It seems to be 500 cals on the low side. Or geared towards losing 1.5 pounds of fat a week which is pretty fast. That definitely takes me (and I suspect others) below my basal metabolic rate which is not good. Not for someone just trying to lose fat and not in contest prep.

i agree everyone is different, but here i am talking in terms of Dave Palumbo`s keto diet

The Dave Palumbo diet is based on the generic 1.5g pro, and about .5g fat per lb of body weight. you should have a meal every 2.5-3 hours you are awake.

now if you want to find out what your exact meal plan should be
the best way is,

to multiply the dave palumbos 200lbs(lean body mass) diet by the fraction of your lean body mass.ie

if you are 100lbs(lean body mass) then
multiply the 200lbs diet x 0.5

if you are 130lbs(lean body mass) then
multiply the 200lbs diet x 0.65

if some is 150lbs(lean body mass) then
multiply the 200lbs diet x 0.75

if some is 180lbs(lean body mass) then
multiply the 200lbs diet x 0.9.

now as we know we all are different, and if someone even on coventional Dave palumbo`s diet is notgetting the desired result then you can modify according to your needs just like esplendido did,
- if you are loosing too much weight then up the calories
- use carb cycling
- whole cheat day (not the cheat meal on the 7th day)
etc etc...

[freebirdmac]

i agree everyone is different, but here i am talking in terms of Dave Palumbo`s keto diet

The Dave Palumbo diet is based on the generic 1.5g pro, and about .5g fat per lb of body weight. you should have a meal every 2.5-3 hours you are awake.

now if you want to find out what your exact meal plan should be
the best way is,

to multiply the dave palumbos 200lbs(lean body mass) diet by the fraction of your lean body mass.ie

if you are 100lbs(lean body mass) then
multiply the 200lbs diet x 0.5

if you are 130lbs(lean body mass) then
multiply the 200lbs diet x 0.65

if some is 150lbs(lean body mass) then
multiply the 200lbs diet x 0.75

if some is 180lbs(lean body mass) then
multiply the 200lbs diet x 0.9.

now as we know we all are different, and if someone even on coventional Dave palumbo`s diet is notgetting the desired result then you can modify according to your needs just like esplendido did,
- if you are loosing too much weight then up the calories
- use carb cycling
- whole cheat day (not the cheat meal on the 7th day)
etc etc...

What do you mean multiply by .5? The 1.5 and .5 x.5? That drives cals even lower.

[mr intensity]

What do you mean multiply by .5? The 1.5 and .5 x.5? That drives cals even lower.

yes now, do you think a person who has
100lbs of lean body mass can loose fat following the dave palumbos 200lbs diet...NO..
100 lbs = 1/2 =0.5
130lbs = 0.65
150lbs = 0.75
180lbs = 0.90

the calorie requirement of 100 lean body mass person would be 50percent of that of a 200lbs dave keto diet.

the calorie requirement of 130lean body mass person would be 65 percent of that of a 200lbs dave keto diet.

the calorie requirement of 150lean body mass person would be 75percent of that of a 200lbs dave keto diet.

the calorie requirement of 180lean body mass person would be 90 percent of that of a 200lbs dave keto diet.

however the ratios will still be the same
for 100lbs lean body mass person
protien = 100 x 1.5 = 150 grams
fats = 100 x 0.5= 50 grams

and same ratio goes for others

[freebirdmac]

yes now, do you think a person who has
100lbs of lean body mass can loose fat following the dave palumbos 200lbs diet...NO..
100 lbs = 1/2 =0.5
130lbs = 0.65
150lbs = 0.75
180lbs = 0.90

the calorie requirement of 100 lean body mass person would be 50percent of that of a 200lbs dave keto diet.

the calorie requirement of 130lean body mass person would be 65 percent of that of a 200lbs dave keto diet.

the calorie requirement of 150lean body mass person would be 75percent of that of a 200lbs dave keto diet.

the calorie requirement of 180lean body mass person would be 90 percent of that of a 200lbs dave keto diet.

however the ratios will still be the same
for 100lbs lean body mass person
protien = 100 x 1.5 = 150 grams
fats = 100 x 0.5= 50 grams

and same ratio goes for others

You just contradicted yourself. Either the ratios change by the multiplier or they don't. The ratios set the cals as there are no measurable carbs.

For 100lbs lean mass that would be 100 x .75 = 75g protein and 100 x .25 = 25g fat. Which is 525 calories.

[mr intensity]

are u seriuosly not able to understand what i am trying convey

ratios remain the same ie
protien = 1.5 x lean body mass
fats = 0.5 x lean body mass

now for 100 lbs
its protien = 1.5 x 100 = 150 grams
fats = 0.5 x 100 = 50 grams

now just campare it to a 200lbs guy`s diet
protien = 1.5 x 200 = 300grams
fats = 0.5 x 200 = 100grams

the 100lbs diet is exactly half ie 1/2 or 50 percent of the 200lbs guy

50 percent means of the diet mean 50/100 = 1/2 = 0.5 x 200 lbs diet

[mr intensity]

just tell me how will you set a diet according to dave keto diet formula, for a 160 lean bodymass person?

[freebirdmac]

are u seriuosly not able to understand what i am trying convey

ratios remain the same ie
protien = 1.5 x lean body mass
fats = 0.5 x lean body mass

now for 100 lbs
its protien = 1.5 x 100 = 150 grams
fats = 0.5 x 100 = 50 grams

now just campare it to a 200lbs guy`s diet
protien = 1.5 x 200 = 300grams
fats = 0.5 x 200 = 100grams

the 100lbs diet is exactly half ie 1/2 or 50 percent of the 200lbs guy

50 percent means of the diet mean 50/100 = 1/2 = 0.5of the diet


Lol! I'm an engineer and former math major so I take statements literally. Which is why I asked for the clarification on "to multiply the dave palumbos 200lbs(lean body mass) diet by the fraction of your lean body mass.ie.."

You don't multiply 1.5 and .5 by .5 as I asked. No multipliers are needed at all. One goes strictly by the macros. The calories for various weights however will differ by those multipliers due to lbm. The multipliers are extraneous info that just happen to fall out of the math.

Which brings me back to my original comment. "Using that formula I'd only be eating 945 cals a day" which is below my basal metabolic rate and insane.

[mr intensity]

Lol! I'm an engineer and former math major so I take statements literally. Which is why I asked for the clarification on "to multiply the dave palumbos 200lbs(lean body mass) diet by the fraction of your lean body mass.ie.."

You don't multiply 1.5 and .5 by .5 as I asked. No multipliers are needed at all. One goes strictly by the macros. The calories however will differ by that multiplier due to the lessor lbm. The multipliers are extraneous info that just happen to fall out of the math.

Which brings me back to my original comment. "Using that formula I'd only be eating 945 cals a day" which is below my basal metabolic rate and insane.

see dave`s keto diet formula is just a great REFERENCE POINT,
esplendido was once dieting under daves guidance, and although his conditioning was great but he lost too much muscle mass.... which is probably the reason he does his own modified version of the keto diet...

at the same time i have known people who find it difficult to loose fat on dave`s keto diet, they need to lower calories even more.....

so all precontest diet are based on assumptions which run around these KEY REFERENCE POINTS,

if one follows daves diet to its strictest sense and does not like the results, then it simply means the person needs to modify the diet,
as in your case, you say that you probably need more calories campared to the ones calculated by the formula.... then definetly you must go with what by HOW YOU FEEL....in the end it the result what matters.:)

[esplendido]

Esp...is this a typo? I take 2g EFAs daily. The entire bottle has 144 capsules @ 1g each.

Agree with protein/carb management.

Baldie

Yep. Supposed to be mg.....good catch!

[freebirdmac]

see dave`s keto diet formula is just a great REFERENCE POINT,
esplendido was once dieting under daves guidance, and although his conditioning was great but he lost too much muscle mass.... which is probably the reason he does his own modified version of the keto diet...

at the same time i have known people who find it difficult to loose fat on dave`s keto diet, they need to lower calories even more.....

so all precontest diet are based on assumptions which run around these KEY REFERENCE POINTS,

if one follows daves diet to its strictest sense and does not like the results, then it simply means the person needs to modify the diet,
as in your case, you say that you probably need more calories campared to the ones calculated by the formula.... then definetly you must go with what by HOW YOU FEEL....in the end it the result what matters.:)

Personally I am not a fan of keto diets. I can see where in the later stages of contest prep where one is so low cal and managing hydration where it falls out as such. But my understanding was the OP just wanted to lose fat. Not do contest prep. In his case keto would be an extreme choice. Given that he already thinks he has to eat so little to lose fat I'd be even more leery about trying to follow that plan. Instead I think he needs to really dig into his eating history, his workout routine, and figure out why his metabolism is so sluggish.

[esplendido]

Yep. Supposed to be mg.....good catch!

Brain fart.....I meant what I first posted....grams. Gotta stop waking up from sleep and checking this site.

Most bbers don't eat enough fat, especially during cutting phase. Carbs are the enemy in cutting.

[esplendido]

Another consideration is how efficient one's metabolism is. As you reduce calories and your VO2 improves, your basal metabolic rate decreases significantly. My wife, who at the beginning of a cutting phase can lose a pound a week on 1400 cals and 1 hr cardio/day, but 8 weeks later has to go to 800 cals and 3 hrs of cardio/day to lose that pound per week.

[freebirdmac]

Another consideration is how efficient one's metabolism is. As you reduce calories and your VO2 improves, your basal metabolic rate decreases significantly. My wife, who at the beginning of a cutting phase can lose a pound a week on 1400 cals and 1 hr cardio/day, but 8 weeks later has to go to 800 cals and 3 hrs of cardio/day to lose that pound per week.

Yep. It goes along with the leaner you are the harder it is to lose fat and not muscle. But again this is in the context of contest prep. Which is inherently insane :p

Is 1400 her starting point or after leaning out awhile at higher cals? I know I can lose 1 pound a week a 1400 with only 2-3 30-minute interval sessions :confused:

[HeavyDutyGuy]

LOL- see what happens to your brain function when running on ketones?

[Baldiewonkanobi]

And boyz and goils lets not forget to Leptin Load at least one meal every two weeks when doing Keto diets. Some say weekly. I Ketoed for one year completely transforming my physique. Loaded one meal every 14 days. Sometimes it would be two cheeseburgers and a root beer float, sometimes an entire pizza, sometimes an entire choc cake :drool: with a qt. of milk chaser. (in my case lactose free milk).

Leptin?? Google.

Baldie

[caribeman]

This is a red flag to me. I don't know your age/height/weight or workout routine, but guys who have to be at 2000 cals or less to lose a pound a week have something messed up.

I live the life style and I rather maintain a low BF% than walk around with 20% thinking that I am "Big". And I am not "cutting" below 2K I maintain and keep a good amount of LBM. We're not all alike.....

[freebirdmac]

Got ya, you look pretty lean on them pics. For me I have to stay below or around 2k cals....


I live the life style and I rather maintain a low BF% than walk around with 20% thinking that I am "Big". And I am not "cutting" below 2K I maintain and keep a good amount of LBM. We're not all alike.....

So you maintain at 2k calories and weigh around 200 with low bf?

[caribeman]

My experience is that if I consume 2k or more I would grow and of course BF increases but since Im done walking around at 200, 180 (or even 175) with low bf works better for me. . For my built and my experience that's better. Its important to stress that losing 1 pound a week and still have high BF makes no sense, at least to me. Its all relative.

[mr intensity]

no man loosing 1/2 or 1 pound is too slow, now if some one who has just 25 pound to loose to reach 4 percent bodyfat that would take him 25 to 30 weeks. i think thats too much.
i aim to loose 2lbs wt/week and keep adjusting things accordingly. Just as chris aceto said this 2lbs/week is number made by brology there is so scientific basis behind it, but its a damn good guesstimate, and most bodybuilder follow the

keep loosing 2lbs per week untill you get those striated glutes
mentain your lifting poundages to their best.