Clen Cycle?

[Iron Muscle]

What is the most effective way to run Clen:

[marcus300]

You will have to try various methods and see which one suits you better, ive had excellent results cycling clen 2 on 2 off, but if you want to run it continuously use ketotifen to up regulate your recepters around day 12-14 mark of using it. Build up slowly to peak dose if you havent used it before.

[maxititer]

don't wanna sound negative, but number of bad publications about clen makes me scared when I see some one going to give it a try

[DMC]

2 days on 2days off. Or 2weeks on 2weeks off. I wouldnt go over 120mcg

[Johnny Phenomenon]

What form are you getting it in? Tabs, syrup?

[Swiper]

I'm currently running clen. going to do it for 12 weeks straight using ketotifen at 1mg per 100mcg of clen. so far so good. I'm about 8 weeks in and still get the jitters.

[TaylorB]

there is no best way... there are just different ways.

runing t3 with clen is a good idea. t3 helps increase the number of beta adrenoceptors.

taking an anti histamine like benadyl or ketotifen fumarate will help keep you from building a tolerance.

[Iron Muscle]

In the tablet form what dosage do you guys start off with and go up to and when do you taper down and what is that dosage

[Lee Penman]

Clen can be taken for 12 to 16 weeks at a time. Starting with 20mcg/day and then increasing by 20mcg increments every couple of weeks. Max amount would be 120mcg. It is best to taper off as well to avoid any rebound effect. Although some consider Benedryl effective for keeping the receptor sites open, I have my doubts. The fat burning effects will level off after a few weeks but then the small anabolic effect will kick in - especially for women.

[Jello]

In the tablet form what dosage do you guys start off with and go up to and when do you taper down and what is that dosage

Start at 20mcg/day and work your way up. See what you can handle but I wouldn't go over 120.

[gettnbig]

I just ran a 2 weeks on and currently off for two weeks. Seemed to work pretty good. I lost a whopping 8 lbs of fat, and leaning out nicely. I am going into my 2nd week off cycle and look forward to getting another 2 weeks on. only thing is my legs really feel like they are being depleted of energy and tend to get some back cramps.

[Carson]

I'm currently running clen. going to do it for 12 weeks straight using ketotifen at 1mg per 100mcg of clen. so far so good. I'm about 8 weeks in and still get the jitters.


Great post.. Right on the money

[TaylorB]

In the tablet form what dosage do you guys start off with and go up to and when do you taper down and what is that dosage
personally when i ran clen, i ran it starting at 200mcg day one and ran it at that dose till i wanted to quit. i ran bendryl nightly from day one.

tapering clen to avoid jitters and other side effects is tapering clen in a way where you never get the fat burning effects that doseages which cause the jitters posess. that is to say, your getting side effects like the jitters because the drug is working GOOD, slowly tapering and avoiding jitters and other side effects is doign so in a way where you never allow the drug to work as well as it does when your getting those side effects.

[Johnny Phenomenon]

I hate the tabs. I use the pump, and I mix it with water and a tiny bit of caffeine crushed up and I slug it back. This way I feel it faster, and get crazy results I find.

[Iron Muscle]

Ive done the 16 week cycle and lost 17lbs after I had hit a road block, im going to try the two week cycle tapering up then back down to see how that works. After the two weeks do you take two weeks off and the go back on again?

[Aaron Singerman]

Most commonly, a user will start by taking one 20mcg tablet on day 1, followed by an increase of one tablet on subsequent days. Subject to personal tolerance levels, a dosage of 140mcg (seven tabs) will be used by day 7, and this level should be maintained for the entire second week. It would be fruitless to exceed seven or eight tablets daily due to receptor over-saturation. There is no requirement to taper down.

[buselmo]

don't wanna sound negative, but number of bad publications about clen makes me scared when I see some one going to give it a try

I agree with your fear :)...
I never liked clen or T3... they just made me feel "not right" if you know what i mean. my heart didn't feel fine at all whenever i used them. even if it was 25 mcg T3 and 40mcg clen... it just didn't feel right. on a higher dose of clen, i couldn't even train. i'd shake really bad and feel as weak as hell. decided to throw them in the trash this time and i'm actually getting leaner and retaining more muscle this time around because i can actually train without being irratated and weak.
BUT
a good friend of mine is the exact opposite. i'm an ephedrine guy, i love that shit, and i hate clen. he is the exact opposite. if he takes ephedrine, he gets the exact same crap i get when i take clen. and if he starts his clen, he gets more energy and he actually gets stronger. he gets easily irritated when he's on ephedrine and has a general feeling of "god i hate this shit" when he's on it.

so, to the original poster... there are a billion ways to run clen... well, actually just 3 :)
2 days on 2 days off
2 weeks on 2 weeks off
all throughout without stopping with some ketotifen.

[hilly]

guys if i want to get some ketotifen or benadryl can i just purchase these otc?? I am in the uk.

[Carson]

guys if i want to get some ketotifen or benadryl can i just purchase these otc?? I am in the uk.

I am not in the UK so check your laws on Keto. There also is no research showing that Benadryl will up regulate your receptors.

[hilly]

thnks mate ill see if i can get some keto. how would i run this is it so much every day or once a week?

[RazorRipped]

don't wanna sound negative, but number of bad publications about clen makes me scared when I see some one going to give it a try

Those studies were done on mice. And they were given doses that no human would take. Well, most humans anyway..lol..

[maxititer]

Those studies were done on mice. And they were given doses that no human would take. Well, most humans anyway..lol..

not sure is we are talking about the same studies, but according to these reports clen can be linked to a number of serious cases of myocardial infarction in quite young and healthy humans.

salbutamol seems to be a some safer alternative to clen


===================================

Conn Med. 2007 Feb;71(2):89-91.
Links
Clenbuterol toxicity: an emerging epidemic. A case report and review.
Bilkoo P, Thomas J, Riddle CD, Kagaoan G.

University of Connecticut, Hoffman Heart Institute, St. Francis Hospital and Medical Center, Hartford, USA.

A 55-year-old Hispanic male found unresponsive at home was brought to our emergency department. The patient was found to have rapid atrial fibrillation and acute inferior ST-elevation myocardial infarction on electrocardiogram. Cardiac catheterization failed to reveal any significant stenotic lesions in the coronary arteries. Initial laboratory studies revealed leukocytosis, hypokalemia, hyperglycemia, an anion-gap metabolic acidosis, as well as an osmolal-gap. Initial toxicology screen was negative. The patient was admitted to the Cardiac Intensive Care Unit. After 24 hours of appropriate medical management the clinical picture had improved. Further blood analysis revealed the presence of clenbuterol. Clenbuterol is a long-acting B-2 agonist used in veterinary medicine. Several patients in the Northeast have recently presented with a similar constellation of symptoms attributed to use of heroin adulterated with clenbuterol.

================================================== ======


Myocardial infarction in a 17-year-old body builder using clenbuterol.
Kierzkowska B, Stańczyk J, Kasprzak JD.

Department of Paediatric Cardiology, Institute of Paediatrics, Medical University Łodź, Poland.

A case of non-Q myocardial infarction in a previously healthy 17-year-old body builder, who used clenbuterol, a long-acting beta(2) adrenergic agonist with anabolic and lipolytic effects, is reported. Only 1 case report of myocardial infarction associated with the use of clenbuterol was found in a literature review and that case was, however, associated with anabolic steroid use. This is the first case report to describe myocardial infarction in a young male body builder only taking clenbuterol.


================================================== ===


Clenbuterol and anabolic steroids: a previously unreported cause of myocardial infarction with normal coronary arteriograms.
Goldstein DR, Dobbs T, Krull B, Plumb VJ.

Department of Medicine, University of Alabama at Birmingham 35294-0007, USA.

During the last 10 years, several cases of myocardial infarction associated with anabolic steroid use have been reported. Postulated mechanisms to explain this association have included changes in lipid levels, the fibrinolytic system, and platelet aggregation. Clenbuterol is a beta 2-agonist with anabolic properties that has not been seen previously with myocardial infarction. We report a case of myocardial infarction in an otherwise healthy 26-year-old body-builder who recently used clenbuterol and anabolic steroids. In this case, synergistic effects of the two agents seem likely to have played a role in the infarct. The normal coronary arteriograms before any anticoagulant or thrombolytic therapy strongly suggest coronary spasm as the mechanism of the infarct.


=========================================

http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/16/1/163

End-stage renal disease in a bodybuilder: a multifactorial process or simply doping?
Hartung R, Gerth J, Fünfstück R, Gröne HJ, Stein G.

Department of Internal Medicine IV, Friedrich-Schiller-University of Jena, Germany.

==========================================

1: Aust N Z J Med. 1993 Dec;23(6):713.
Links
Myocardial infarction and cerebral haemorrhage in a young body builder taking anabolic steroids.
Kennedy MC, Corrigan AB, Pilbeam ST.

========================================

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3381740?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.P ubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pu bmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&l ogdbfrom=pubmed

Acute myocardial infarction in a 22-year-old world class weight lifter using anabolic steroids.
McNutt RA, Ferenchick GS, Kirlin PC, Hamlin NJ.

Department of Medicine, Michigan State University, East Lansing 48824.

========================================

Arch Mal Coeur Vaiss. 2000 Jul;93(7):879-83.
Links
[Myocardial infarction and anabolic steroid use. A case report]
[Article in French]

Godon P, Bonnefoy E, Guérard S, Munet M, Velon S, Brion R, Touboul P.

Service de cardiologie, hôpital d'instruction des armées Desgenettes, Lyon.

The potential cardiotoxicity of anabolic steroids is not well known. The authors report the case of a young man who was a top class body builder and who developed severe ischaemic cardiomyopathy presenting with an inferior wall myocardial infarction. The clinical history revealed prolonged and intensive usage of two types of anabolic steroids to be the only risk factor. This cardiotoxicity may be related to several physiopathological mechanisms: accelerated atherogenesis by lipid changes, increased platelet aggregation, coronary spasm or a direct toxic effect on the myocytes. The apparent scarcity of the reported clinical details in the literature is probably an underestimation of the consequences of this usage.

==========================================

South Med J. 1998 Aug;91(8):780-4.
Links
Clenbuterol and anabolic steroids: a previously unreported cause of myocardial infarction with normal coronary arteriograms.
Goldstein DR, Dobbs T, Krull B, Plumb VJ.

Department of Medicine, University of Alabama at Birmingham 35294-0007, USA.

During the last 10 years, several cases of myocardial infarction associated with anabolic steroid use have been reported. Postulated mechanisms to explain this association have included changes in lipid levels, the fibrinolytic system, and platelet aggregation. Clenbuterol is a beta 2-agonist with anabolic properties that has not been seen previously with myocardial infarction. We report a case of myocardial infarction in an otherwise healthy 26-year-old body-builder who recently used clenbuterol and anabolic steroids. In this case, synergistic effects of the two agents seem likely to have played a role in the infarct. The normal coronary arteriograms before any anticoagulant or thrombolytic therapy strongly suggest coronary spasm as the mechanism of the infarct.

=======================================

[RazorRipped]

not sure is we are talking about the same studies, but according to these reports clen can be linked to a number of serious cases of myocardial infarction in quite young and healthy humans.

salbutamol seems to be a some safer alternative to clen

And what were the doses they were on?

Was it cases of long term abuse?

Those look like reports, not studies.:)

[Jer]

Those studies were done on mice. And they were given doses that no human would take. Well, most humans anyway..lol..

Except for you. ;)

[Asmolenski]

And what were the doses they were on?

Was it cases of long term abuse?

Those look like reports, not studies.:)

Although these case reports usually involve some dick head with a "more is better" attitude who screws himself by overdosing on some crap they do illustrate potential dangers.

You can burn fat and get ripped with proper diet and cardio - some of the best conditioned bodybuilders are the natural guys which means you can achieve excellent results without the risks of an illegal drug - it just takes more work.

[RazorRipped]

Although these case reports usually involve some dick head with a "more is better" attitude who screws himself by overdosing on some crap they do illustrate potential dangers.

.

Exactly my point!

[maxititer]

Although these case reports usually involve some dick head with a "more is better" attitude who screws himself by overdosing on some crap they do illustrate potential dangers.

hard to disagree, and still hard to ignore those reports either.

I used salbutamol at 4 mg and 8 mg 30 minutes before workout, effect very thermogenic.

according to recent report "Current Concepts in Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids" published by The American Journal of Sports Medicine, heart complications are most dangerous one on long term. This report does not refer to clen, though, but that does not looks like they are trying to use some scare tactics. Situation with heart related complication already bad and use of clen only can make it worse.


Long-Term Health Risks
The health risks associated with long-term therapeutic
doses of testosterone and chronic supraphysiologic doses of
AAS are unknown. With chronic AAS use, doses tend to
increase and cycles become longer and more frequent, until
some athletes take the drugs almost continuously.27 The
most severe consequences of long-term AAS use may be on
the cardiovascular system.67 Pathological AAS-induced left
ventricular hypertrophy, impaired diastolic filling, and
arrhythmia may lead to an increased risk of myocardial
infarction and sudden death.60,100 The risk of mortality
among chronic AAS users is reported to be 4.6 times higher
than non-AAS users.66 Although AASs have been proposed
as etiologic factors for some cancers,67 case reports
linking these drugs with hepatic tumors, renal carcinoma,
and testicular tumors are rare.21,33,57,62 There are no
reports linking AAS with prostate cancer,40 and androgen
treatment in older men79,88 does not induce significant
increases in prostate-specific antigen.


some more references on that issue

Wight JN, Salem D. Sudden cardiac death Arch Intern Med. 1995;155:1473-1480.

Evans NA. Gym & tonic: a profile of 100 male steroid users. Br J
Sports Med. 1997;31:54-58.

Parssinen M, Seppala T. Steroid use and long term health risks in
former athletes. Sports Med. 2002;32:83-94.

Melchert RB, Welder AA. Cardiovascular effects of androgenic-anabolic
steroids. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1995;27:1252-1262.

Wight JN, Salem D. Sudden cardiac death and the “athlete’s heart.”
Arch Intern Med. 1995;155:1473-1480.

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

Clen can be taken for 12 to 16 weeks at a time. Starting with 20mcg/day and then increasing by 20mcg increments every couple of weeks. Max amount would be 120mcg. It is best to taper off as well to avoid any rebound effect. Although some consider Benedryl effective for keeping the receptor sites open, I have my doubts. The fat burning effects will level off after a few weeks but then the small anabolic effect will kick in - especially for women.

This is exactly true. When one takes t3 they should incorporate a muscle sparing compound; clen in fact does just that. maybe on a small scale. thats why this combination should include test and only be done for cutting or contest preparation. As for benedryl and kete thats hogwash; why would one start to take a drug to counteract another and so on. just because you no-longer have the side effects of clen does not mean it has stop working. H.C

[RazorRipped]

. As for benedryl and kete thats hogwash; why would one start to take a drug to counteract another and so on. just because you no-longer have the side effects of clen does not mean it has stop working. H.C


I'll disagree with that and I can show evidence if you care to see it? Dave is the only one who thinks like this,so I'm assuming you work with Dave?:)

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

your evidence is only from heresay. their is no medical proof that this is so. Be careful as i am in the medical industry. and i am a license physician. i wont go into details about my medical background. And WRONG......... I am not a friend of Dave. He could tell you that. BUT AS YOU STATED SHOW ME THE PROOF. MEDICALLY THAT IS....Im waiting.......

[RazorRipped]

your evidence is only from heresay. their is no medical proof that this is so. Be careful as i am in the medical industry. and i am a license physician. i wont go into details about my medical background. And WRONG......... I am not a friend of Dave. He could tell you that. BUT AS YOU STATED SHOW ME THE PROOF. MEDICALLY THAT IS....Im waiting.......

The angry medical practitioner with an attitude. I bet your patients love you, huh?

So what would you like me to show you? That clen down-regulates the beta 2 receptor thus blunting the fat loss effects? What else?:)

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

The angry medical practitioner with an attitude. I bet your patients love you, huh?

So what would you like me to show you? That clen down-regulates the beta 2 receptor thus blunting the fat loss effects? What else?:)


so now im angry because i am dabating a issue with you. Oh please highlight in bold where i show that i am angry. If you can have a great debate; than their is no reason to continue replying or listening to your post. And yes my patients do love me. How did you guess that. Well lets see it may be because i am very informative and take great care of my patients. As for you getting research on clen; i not only can tell you more about as well as i have a hell of alot more research and experience with individuals than you do.

And ine more thing im not trying to be an ass. but do you think for once that everybody does it yours or my way. the answer is No!!. so stop trying to sale the story and put your theory up as a guidline so that folks on the boards as well as newbs can be well informed.......

[Swiper]

so now im angry because i am dabating a issue with you. Oh please highlight in bold where i show that i am angry. If you can have a great debate; than their is no reason to continue replying or listening to your post. And yes my patients do love me. How did you guess that. Well lets see it may be because i am very informative and take great care of my patients. As for you getting research on clen; i not only can tell you more about as well as i have a hell of alot more research and experience with individuals than you do.

And ine more thing im not trying to be an ass. but do you think for once that everybody does it yours or my way. the answer is No!!. so stop trying to sale the story and put your theory up as a guidline so that folks on the boards as well as newbs can be well informed.......

Experience with what?

[RazorRipped]

so now im angry because i am dabating a issue with you. Oh please highlight in bold where i show that i am angry. If you can have a great debate; than their is no reason to continue replying or listening to your post. And yes my patients do love me. How did you guess that. Well lets see it may be because i am very informative and take great care of my patients. As for you getting research on clen; i not only can tell you more about as well as i have a hell of alot more research and experience with individuals than you do.

And ine more thing im not trying to be an ass. but do you think for once that everybody does it yours or my way. the answer is No!!. so stop trying to sale the story and put your theory up as a guidline so that folks on the boards as well as newbs can be well informed.......


First off, typing in caps is one's way of over expression. In most cases it's anger related. Reading your post above, it's quite apparent you have anger issues, as well as having a hard time having a decent conversion without talking down/belittling people as acting is if you are above everyone else becuase you're a practitioner. Have you ever wondered why doctors use the term "practice" ?:)

Don't you think your statement about knowing more than me is a tad arrogant in nature? Do you know me, or what I do for a living? Your just making an assumption you're better than me right?

Lastly, I'm not trying to sell any protocol. However I do disagree with the statement I initially quoted you on. And I would like to go about proving you wrong, but with your temperament, I can't see that happening.


LOL. The irony of you saying you're not trying to be an ass. Priceless

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

Experience with what?


Are you insisting that by highlighting in bold to my response post that i am angry. I'm confused by your post. be detailed so that i can address you appropriately. If you are questioning my experience than read above and i wont go any further.

[Swiper]

Are you insisting that by highlighting in bold to my response post that i am angry. I'm confused by your post. be detailed so that i can address you appropriately. If you are questioning my experience than read above and i wont go any further.

I'm not insisting you're angry. i just wanted to know if your experience is just being a physician or being an experienced clen & ketotifen user or both?

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

First off, typing in caps is one's way of over expression. In most cases it's anger related. Reading your post above, it's quite apparent you have anger issues, as well as having a hard time having a decent conversion without talking down/belittling people as acting is if you are above everyone else becuase you're a practitioner. Have you ever wondered why doctors use the term "practice" ?:)

Don't you think your statement about knowing more than me is a tad arrogant in nature? Do you know me, or what I do for a living? Your just making an assumption you're better than me right?

Lastly, I'm not trying to sell any protocol. However I do disagree with the statement I initially quoted you on. And I would like to go about proving you wrong, but with your temperament, I can't see that happening.





LOL. The irony of you saying you're not trying to be an ass. Priceless



Yet you called me angry and that my patients must love me is not be ( sarcastic ). And yes i did put it in caps because you also dint know anything about me. and i responded to your obvious angry post; thats why i responded in caps; quite fair to me at least you got it. And whats priceless. Aha it must be your attitude; since you claimed i know Dave Palumbo... Name dropping at its best............ Although we are head butting; Doesn't mean i dint like what you say in theory to certain things. If i can remember i agreed with one of your post on another subject matter. If i did not like you or am mean spirited than i wouldn't care lee to acknowledge anything you say. Go ahead and look through your other threads.

[RazorRipped]

Yet you called me angry and that my patients must love me is not be ( sarcastic ). And yes i did put it in caps because you also dint know anything about me. and i responded to your obvious angry post; thats why i responded in caps; quite fair to me at least you got it. And whats priceless. Aha it must be your attitude; since you claimed i know Dave Palumbo... Name dropping at its best............ Although we are head butting; Doesn't mean i dint like what you say in theory to certain things. If i can remember i agreed with one of your post on another subject matter. If i did not like you or am mean spirited than i wouldn't care lee to acknowledge anything you say. Go ahead and look through your other threads.

Ok. I'll take full responsibility in creating this disturbance. I apologize for disagreeing with your initial statement. I just wasn't aware I was disagreeing with someone of stature.

Let's get back to your initial claims, shall we?

Since your knowledge in vast, in regards to clenbuterol, please give everyone here a detailed account how clen is still effective for fat loss after the beat 2 receptors are down regulated. Thank you.:)


To the other portion of your initial post:

You said it’s foolish to take one drug to counter another. Could you elaborate on that? I guess I’m asking because as you probably know, or at least should know, there are countless studies showing the effectiveness of ketotefin with the beta 2 receptors.

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

I'm not insisting you're angry. i just wanted to know if your experience is just being a physician or being an experienced clen & ketotifen user or both?


sorry but both..

[Swiper]

sorry but both..

no problem. what was your clen-ketotifen protocol?

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

Ok. I'll take full responsibility in creating this disturbance. I apologize for disagreeing with your initial statement. I just wasn't aware I was disagreeing with someone of stature.

Let's get back to your initial claims, shall we?

Since your knowledge in vast, in regards to clenbuterol, please give everyone here a detailed account how clen is still effective for fat loss after the beat 2 receptors are down regulated. Thank you.:)


To the other portion of your initial post:

You said it’s foolish to take one drug to counter another. Could you elaborate on that? I guess I’m asking because as you probably know, or at least should know, there are countless studies showing the effectiveness of ketotefin with the beta 2 receptors.

Okay fair enough; let me start by saying Some folks swear by clen and some say it does not work with them; Usually the case is the person takes too much clen or ramp up to fast. Let me explain first how one would take clen.

First Don’t cycle clen. Run it straight for 16-20 weeks. Start out at 20mcg per day and increase 20mcg every 2-3 weeks to a maximum of 120mcg. Increase the dose when you reach plateaus in fat loss. contrary to popular belief i hear alot of folks taking benadril and other drugs so that the beta receptors does not get ram shacked. this is hogwash you dont ever want to start taking this drug to counteract that drug and then another to counter the other as i stated in my last post. you will be fine.

You would be much better off with clenbuterol. The ECA stack will raise cortisol which can suppress the immune system and/or result in muscle wasting. Plus, clen is much more effective for fat loss. Clenbuterol is actually anti-catabolic and helps you to retain muscle by blocking catabolic reactions in the body. Clen is a pure beta-2 antagonist and doesn’t have much of the stimulant effects of ephedrine or caffeine.

So to answer your question that how can clen be still effective when the beta 2 receptors are downregulated. Well first its hard to have a answer to this when i dont believe the receptors are down; at least if you take clen in the way i describe. why dont you try it; and test its effect out. you may be surprised. secondly i have a son with chronic ashma and i have a son thats a diebetic. both these issues have always prompt me to engorge myself in many studies and actually new testing that me and my sons went throug. I personally have done 4 different medical subject testing with clen and yes the way im mentioning works.


ketofin... Yes i agree their are studies that show many benefits; however these benefits apply to patients that have have other medical issues. When you start to take drugs without a doctors evaluation and medical checkup; you risk having the more pronounced side effects occur. Even those with medical reason still get some of these side effects. All im saying is to many everyday gym rats are taking in whatever drug they hear or see all because someone or certain boards are promoting them. Here is when the trouble start. here are just some of the side effects as studies are still in trial about the is particular drug and other side effects have not been found as of yet. So no-one even the pharmeacutical and fda know the long term effects of this drug. I hope this help explain my position on this drug.

<LI class=list_style>redness, drainage, eyelid swelling, or other signs of infection <LI class=list_style>eye pain <LI class=list_style>vision changes; or
severe itching of the eyes worse than before using the medication
Less serious side effects may include:
<LI class=list_style>mild burning, stinging, or eye irritation <LI class=list_style>dryness of the eyes; or
increased sensitivity to light

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

no problem. what was your clen-ketotifen protocol?


I personally threw -up most of the time and it broke me out in hives which was very painful. i always said those who can use good luck. stuffs not for me. and this was under supervision for a study at the unversity that i attended.

[Swiper]

I personally threw -up most of the time and it broke me out in hives which was very painful. i always said those who can use good luck. stuffs not for me. and this was under supervision for a study at the unversity that i attended.

that sucks. sorry to hear that. thanks for the response.

[RazorRipped]

.............


[B]this is hogwash you dont ever want to start taking this drug to counteract that drug and then another to counter the other as i stated in my last post. Science says otherwise

[B]So to answer your question that how can clen be still effective when the beta 2 receptors are downregulated. Well first its hard to have a answer to this when i dont believe the receptors are down;Science says otherwise



[B]ketofin... Yes i agree their are studies that show many benefits; however these benefits apply to patients that have have other medical issues.Doesn't matter. Ketotefin has been proevn to work side by side with clen, even in health adults



You have proven nothing. You've simply stated your opinion without posting one scientific fact to back you claims.

I've been on boards many years,and talked with many doctors. All have always been cool, calm and collective. Never any outbursts, belittling, or anything of that nature. But there's always a first, as you've proven above.

You'd be surprised at how many studies there are indicating that Ketotifen is effective at preventing beta-androgen receptor down-regulation.
Look at related articles and you'll find 100 more………..

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...777&query_hl=6
Effects of ketotifen on the responsiveness of peripheral blood lymphocyte beta-adrenergic receptors.
"The effects of ketotifen therapy on the responsiveness of lymphocyte beta-adrenergic receptors was evaluated by measuring cyclic AMP elevations caused by isoproterenol [a beta2-agonist] in cells isolated from patients treated with ketotifen for more than 1 year. Binding of 3H-dihydroalprenolol to beta-receptors was also evaluated. The isoproterenol-induced rise in cyclic AMP relative to each individual's baseline level was greater in patients on current ketotifen therapy than in other asthmatic patients or non-asthmatic subjects. Ketotifen therapy increased the apparent equilibrium dissociation constant for specific 3H-dihydroalprenolol binding to the receptors. Receptor numbers in symptomatic asthma patients on standard drug therapy were decreased. The results indicate that long term ketotifen therapy is associated with increased responsiveness of beta-receptors to stimulation by catecholamines and that this alteration may involve changes in the receptors themselves, their membrane environment, adenylate cyclase or components of the adenylate cyclase coupling system."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...319&query_hl=2
Effects of ketotifen and clenbuterol on beta-adrenergic receptor functions of lymphocytes
"Applying ketotifen and clenbuterol together the beta-adrenergic receptor function increased compared to the values obtained after application of clenbuterol alone (intraindividual-control) as well as vs. the group of healthies (control). Data presented support the view that therapeutic doses of selective beta 2-agonists do not lead to damage of the beta-adrenoceptor function. The improvement of receptor function after parallel administration of clenbuterol and ketotifen may be a consequence of the participation of ketotifen in the control of beta-adrenergic receptor system."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...180&query_hl=6
Effects... of ketotifen on beta 2 adrenergic receptor regulation in intact human lymphocytes
"KET alone also induced an up-regulation of cell surface beta adrenergic receptors."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...002&query_hl=6
[Bronchial adrenergic receptors and asthma. Tachyphylaxis and its prevention]
(Tachyphylaxis is rapidly diminishing response to successive doses of a drug, rendering it less effective)
"The majority of the clinical studies in healthy volunteers have shown that chronic inhalation or oral intake of sympathomimetics causes tachyphylaxis of the bronchial beta adrenergic receptors... Several well controlled studies have however shown that chronic administration of sympathomimetics results in a significantly decreased sensitivity of the bronchial beta adrenergic receptor... Corticosteroids, given orally or parenterally, restore the sensitivity of the beta adrenergic receptors. In a double blind, placebo controlled study in healthy subjects we have observed that ketotifen prevents the development of a tachyphylaxis of the bronchial beta adrenergic receptor during prolonged treatment with inhaled sympathomimetics."

.

Clenbuterol can also cause a down regulation in testicular androgen receptors and in pulmonary, cardiac and central nervous system beta-adrenergic receptors

J Anim Physiol Anim Nutr (Berl). 2004 Apr;88(3-4):94-

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

Brother do i smell bipolar. How do you go from appologizing back to sarcasim and belittle me all over again. WTF..... And fix your links as they are broken. The info you inputed in your post is old information and already know. What doctors you speak of. They are no docs buddies of mine as they would and have dissagreed. I dont wanna here about your doc friends as you are not one. your info is second and third party info that only you believe. Im done with you and this topic as i feel like im going back and forth beating a dead horse.

And you being on the board for years means nothing. how old are you. i will start first im 47yrs old. your turn

And ih yea never any outburst heh. well that goes for me also if you still considered my rebuttle an outburst. but i guess for you it would be your first no excuse its actually your second as of now towards me. Which make both of us human.

[RazorRipped]

Brother do i smell bipolar. How do you go from appologizing back to sarcasim and belittle me all over again. WTF..... And fix your links as they are broken. The info you inputed in your post is old information and already know. What doctors you speak of. They are no docs buddies of mine as they would and have dissagreed. I dont wanna here about your doc friends as you are not one. your info is second and third party info that only you believe. Im done with you and this topic as i feel like im going back and forth beating a dead horse.

And you being on the board for years means nothing. how old are you. i will start first im 47yrs old. your turn

And ih yea never any outburst heh. well that goes for me also if you still considered my rebuttle an outburst. but i guess for you it would be your first no excuse its actually your second as of now towards me. Which make both of us human.

You amaze me. You we're able to detect my sarcasm in previous posts, but when I was disparaging you in an apology it went undetected. LOL

You're insecure ramblings are hilarious. You've proven to everyone you are nothing but a pompous asshole.You can't even retort to one piece of evidence I presented to you. Instead you continue to attack in your immature manor. You say you're 47 yrs old and can't even carry on a conversation without insults? You're a class act, not. A doctor? That I highly doubt!

LOL @ third party evidence. It's scientific evidence I posted. You were owned!

[Por2gue]

This is great!! I'm enjoying this!

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

You amaze me. You we're able to detect my sarcasm in previous posts, but when I was disparaging you in an apology it went undetected. LOL

You're insecure ramblings are hilarious. You've proven to everyone you are nothing but a pompous asshole.You can't even retort to one piece of evidence I presented to you. Instead you continue to attack in your immature manor. You say you're 47 yrs old and can't even carry on a conversation without insults? You're a class act, not. A doctor? That I highly doubt!

LOL @ third party evidence. It's scientific evidence I posted. You were owned!


bro you're a damn joke. and say the least you would expect someone to read their own rules you posted. Remember no flaming. this what you are doing. i will keep this short. you know crap about me. but yet i been on the boards for years and i train this and that person. but you want everyone to agree with your theory and when someone doesn't; you feel the need to get pissed and question them. Brother please do me a favor.... And try and pay the amount of $$ i did and go to med school and graduate only to find out their is someone like yourself out here giving folks your unfounded opinions and advice. you are not a medical doctor nor are you licensed to give such advice.

You can attack my medical and opinion all you want. I dont and will not proved a darn thing to you. And also why start the profanity at this time. uncalled as its a clear sign that you lack the maturity and ability to communicate your differences to me. remember this quote came from you. keep doing what you do and i will keep doing what i do.......

And no-one was or is owend. your evidence and that crap you posted is not related in any medical book of mine and yes i did look and tried to find a answer for. Darn i even tried to prov myself wrong so that you could stop embarrassing yourself and at least have 1-thing right to say. You just like so many other syou hear and believe what everyother gym rat has believed. If theyr told you kete is great and it helps you fly after a cycle of clen also ; I bet you would buy into that shit as well. LOL wow no flaming rule. i know what to do about this. I will get back to you. And believe me im no newb either.......

[RazorRipped]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>


bro first off, lets get one thing perfectly clear. I'm not your bro.




and say the least you would expect someone to read their own rules you posted. Remember no flaming.there isn't any flaming here. That happens to be your interpretation,and grossly incorrect.









i will keep this short. thank you


you know crap about me. true. But what i've gathered so far your nothing a but a pompous ass, know-thing, bitter individual that's in dire need of getting laid


but yet i been on the boards for years and i train this and that person. But you want everyone to agree with your theory and when someone doesn't; you feel the need to get pissed and question them.your incoherent ramblings are rather amusing. You really expect me to believe a person that posts like this a a doctor?...lol.


brother please do me a favor.... And try and pay the amount of $$ i did and go to med school and graduate only to find out their is someone like yourself out here giving folks your unfounded opinions and advice.could you retype that in english so we understand what the hell you are rambling about? Myself, i don't understand gibberish.

you are not a medical doctor nor are you licensed to give such advice.ok, so in order to post in this forum, one must have a medical degree? God forbid anyone here shares their personal experiences.

you can attack my medical and opinion all you want.i disagreed with your opinion. I have proven your wrong. Why haven't you once posted any medical literature to back your claims?


i dont and will not proved a darn thing to you.slow down jethro. Try and type more coherently ok?


and also why start the profanity at this time. calling you a pompous ass isn't profanity. It's the truth

uncalled as its a clear sign that you lack the maturity and ability to communicate your differences to me.i'm having a hard time understanding your gibberish. But jethro, if you read back in this thread i clearly asked you several times, and politely, to post medical literature to back you claims.so come on now jethro, go put down the moonshine and get with it buddy.


remember this quote came from you. Keep doing what you do and i will keep doing what i do.......umm ok jethro

and no-one was or is owend.i beg to differ. Jethro. I'll try and speak in your language.... Youse bin ownsed

your evidence and that crap you posted is not related in any medical book of mineok, the rule is if it isn't in one of your books, it isn't credible...rofl. Dam jethro, you crack me up boy



and yes i did look and tried to find a answer for. Darn i even tried to prov myself wrong so that you could stop embarrassing yourself lol...what you say jethro?


and at least have 1-thing right to say.no, your literary skills are hideous jethro. Nice try though


you just like so many other syou hear and believe what everyother gym rat has believed. If theyr told you kete is great and it helps you fly after a cycle of clen alsotranslate that from gibberish to english for me. Thanks


i bet you would buy into that shit as well.no jethro, i haven't bought any of your bullshit that has rolled off your finger tips polluting this forum.


i will get back to you.please do. Through your incredible stupidity, i'm finding you rather humorous


and believe me im no newb either.....yea jethro. You got a 6th edumacation don't y'all?


.


:)

[militantmuscle]

Why do I get the feeling HANEYCOLEMAN is not a doctor...

[HANEYCOLEMAN]

Why do I get the feeling HANEYCOLEMAN is not a doctor...

no im not a doctor. since all of us are on the net hiding behind a screename breaking the law.... That should i guess tell you that im a fictiocious character and nothing i say should be noted as real advice. And im being real with that. (no pun intended towards you Elite)
I just enjoy taking folks out of their confort zones and find it amazing at what you can do to piss folks off over the net; knowing you and them will never meet one-another. But than again i may be wrong....... Okay time to get laid; advice well taken ( okay hun old jethro coming darling) lol.........goodnight folks .........

.......................

i'm having a hard time understanding your gibberish. But jethro, if you read back in this thread i clearly asked you several times, and politely, to post medical literature to back you claims.so come on now jethro, go put down the moonshine and get with it buddy. And i am not your buddy.

[chucksm00th]

its getting hot in here

[gettnbig]

So do I need to take benadryl or ketofin while on clen. Will I still get good results. sure feel like i am shredding down. and can you do it during PCT.

[Swiper]

So do I need to take benadryl or ketofin while on clen. Will I still get good results. sure feel like i am shredding down. and can you do it during PCT.

depends on how you want to take it. You can do 2 weeks on 2 off and repeat. that way you don't need ketotifin. or take it for multiple weeks with ketotifin.

[47ronin]

What's the protocol for taking Benadryl to clear out the receptors? Two weeks on clen and then two weeks taking Benadryl or do you take them together?

[Swiper]

What's the protocol for taking Benadryl to clear out the receptors? Two weeks on clen and then two weeks taking Benadryl or do you take them together?

I don't recommend taking benadryl. Ketotifin is what you want if you plan on staying on clen for many weeks. Or you can do clen 2 weeks on and 2 off. this way you don't need ketotifin to keep your receptors from downgrading.
If you take ketotifin start it about at day 10-12. thats when your receptors will start to downgrade. 1mg per 100mcg of clen.