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tjoe
02-11-2009, 01:39 PM
1 - could this be used as a stand alone product for apx 4 weeks leading up to a strength event?
2 - if so, at what dose and how would you dose it throughout the day? every 12 hours, 8hrs, 4hrs?
3 - is PCT needed? if so what would be the ideal protocal?
4 - what side are to be expected?
5 - any other precautions to take during this time?

Currently have never played with AAS and I am just curious. I know everyone recommneds AGAINST oral only cycles and usually recommends test only as a first run. But I believe Halo would NOT cause you to retain water (weight) and would give a nice little bump in strength. Any other info would be great.

Johnny Phenomenon
02-11-2009, 01:43 PM
1 - could this be used as a stand alone product for apx 4 weeks leading up to a strength event?
2 - if so, at what dose and how would you dose it throughout the day? every 12 hours, 8hrs, 4hrs?
3 - is PCT needed? if so what would be the ideal protocal?
4 - what side are to be expected?
5 - any other precautions to take during this time?

Currently have never played with AAS and I am just curious. I know everyone recommneds AGAINST oral only cycles and usually recommends test only as a first run. But I believe Halo would NOT cause you to retain water (weight) and would give a nice little bump in strength. Any other info would be great.

Prepare to hate life. I think you get strong on it, and I honestly have never used it myself, but from all my buddies who have run it they don't suggest it. Constant liver pain and just a general shitty feeling come with the strength. I would think using it alone would require an insane dose as well. Again, just MHO.

Swiper
02-11-2009, 04:05 PM
1 - could this be used as a stand alone product for apx 4 weeks leading up to a strength event? don't know never took it alone
2 - if so, at what dose and how would you dose it throughout the day? every 12 hours, 8hrs, 4hrs? I took 50 mgs ed. split it up. 3 times a day.
3 - is PCT needed? if so what would be the ideal protocal?
4 - what side are to be expected? Strength gain & aggression
5 - any other precautions to take during this time? may want to take a liver supplement Currently have never played with AAS and I am just curious. I know everyone recommneds AGAINST oral only cycles and usually recommends test only as a first run. But I believe Halo would NOT cause you to retain water (weight) and would give a nice little bump in strength. Any other info would be great.

I would say halo is like anadrol but without the water retention.
you may not gain much muscle, but you'll get strong a fuck.

maxititer
02-12-2009, 10:40 AM
Metribolone/Methyltrienolone (http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=261000) is gaining some popularity these days. strongest androgen ever been made.

Everex238
02-12-2009, 11:21 AM
Metribolone/Methyltrienolone (http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=261000) is gaining some popularity these days. strongest androgen ever been made.


yeah but no sources even sell it. i always look for it and cant find anyone carrying it

-BLP-
02-12-2009, 03:05 PM
halo is amazing !!!!!!!! you fell like deadlift car at 4am

militantmuscle
02-12-2009, 03:15 PM
Halotestin is the MOST LIVER TOXIC oral out there, it does have a distinct hardening effect and aggressiveness and strength will be dramatically increased, but do the benefits outweigh the cost/risk? If you guys do decide to do this, silymarin (milk thistle) is a MUST.

tJoe, halo is NOT a first time user's drug of choice, it is a very advanced and toxic drug, for your goals and situation I'd recommend oxymetholone (anadrol) or even oxandrolone (anavar) at high dosages.

tjoe
02-12-2009, 03:22 PM
fair enough. BUT A50 will cause somew pretty good water retention. and wouldn't Anavar at high doses be almost as toxic? I was thinking Halo at the bare minumum dosage for no more than 4 weeks top even 3 if it would provide a little boost. not looking for much. also what would a "minimum dosage" be? and how would you split it up throughout the day? I am also a pretty "calm" lifter... so a little bump in aggression would be pretty welcome.
while I'm at it... what about the milk thistle. I read to NOT use it DURING a cycle because it could hamper the affectiveness of the oral (or maybe its absorbtion?). I think from RR... any opinions there? take it during or after and how much?

RazorRipped
02-12-2009, 03:33 PM
Halotestin is the MOST LIVER TOXIC oral out there, it does have a distinct hardening effect and aggressiveness and strength will be dramatically increased, but do the benefits outweigh the cost/risk? If you guys do decide to do this, silymarin (milk thistle) is a MUST.

tJoe, halo is NOT a first time user's drug of choice, it is a very advanced and toxic drug, for your goals and situation I'd recommend oxymetholone (anadrol) or even oxandrolone (anavar) at high dosages.

Come on man. Stop with the "sky is falling" crap in regards top Halo being extremely liver toxic.

Taking Milk thistle while using any oral effects the absorption rate. Further, do you know how many endocrinologist think milk thistle is pretty much BS?

My last contest prep I ran 70 mg a day, for 10 weeks. Two weeks after dropping the Halo I had blood work done(as I always to post cycle) and my lipid/enzymes were pretty much in normal range. I have BW from several other Halo cycles, plus anadrol (which I love) and every time, my liver panels are in line 2 week after dropping an oral.

The liver is far more resilient than all these internet guru's/wannabee's lay claim to. Alcoholics are an example of this.

-BLP-
02-12-2009, 03:41 PM
god had spoken

militantmuscle
02-12-2009, 03:51 PM
Come on man. Stop with the "sky is falling" crap in regards top Halo being extremely liver toxic.

Taking Milk thistle while using any oral effects the absorption rate. Further, do you know how many endocrinologist think milk thistle is pretty much BS?

My last contest prep I ran 70 mg a day, for 10 weeks. Two weeks after dropping the Halo I had blood work done(as I always to post cycle) and my lipid/enzymes were pretty much in normal range. I have BW from several other Halo cycles, plus anadrol (which I love) and every time, my liver panels are in line 2 week after dropping an oral.

The liver is far more resilient than all these internet guru's/wannabee's lay claim to. Alcoholics are an example of this.


If I'm wrong about Halotestin being the most toxic liver oral, I will humbly apologize, but I am pretty sure that studies are conclusive that my statement was correct.

And while I do respect your personal experience, is tJoe = RazorRipped?

If RazorRipped = tJoe, then all effects associated with halotestin use with RazorRipped could be associated with tJoe by transitive property, but since that is not sure I don't think a personal testimonial can carry much weight in tJoe's case.

While my experience with physique athletes is not as extensive as yours, I do have a modest track record.

I worked with Gerald Jackson, 3rd place open heavyweight at the 2008 NPC All South.

I worked with Teddy Atkins Jr., who got 4th place welterweight class at 2008 NPC Nationals.

I am currently working with Lee Banks for the USAs and the Nationals for 2009.

So you see, I am not exactly an amateur with working extensively with athletes at the top level of competition.

We are entitled to our opinions, and I will respect yours, I ask that you do the same for me, so long as we use factual statements to convey our positions on various strategies for bodybuilding purposes.

tjoe
02-12-2009, 03:51 PM
Come on man. Stop with the "sky is falling" crap in regards top Halo being extremely liver toxic.

Taking Milk thistle while using any oral effects the absorption rate. Further, do you know how many endocrinologist think milk thistle is pretty much BS?

My last contest prep I ran 70 mg a day, for 10 weeks. Two weeks after dropping the Halo I had blood work done(as I always to post cycle) and my lipid/enzymes were pretty much in normal range. I have BW from several other Halo cycles, plus anadrol (which I love) and every time, my liver panels are in line 2 week after dropping an oral.

The liver is far more resilient than all these internet guru's/wannabee's lay claim to. Alcoholics are an example of this.interesting. Can you answer the question I posted just above your post? What would be a "relatively" safe AND effective dose for 3-4 weeks leading into a comp, and how would you space it out throughout the day? Thanks.

RazorRipped
02-12-2009, 04:10 PM
If I'm wrong about Halotestin being the most toxic liver oral, I will humbly apologize, but I am pretty sure that studies are conclusive that my statement was correct.

And while I do respect your personal experience, is tJoe = RazorRipped?

If RazorRipped = tJoe, then all effects associated with halotestin use with RazorRipped could be associated with tJoe by transitive property, but since that is not sure I don't think a personal testimonial can carry much weight in tJoe's case.

While my experience with physique athletes is not as extensive as yours, I do have a modest track record.

I worked with Gerald Jackson, 3rd place open heavyweight at the 2008 NPC All South.

I worked with Teddy Atkins Jr., who got 4th place welterweight class at 2008 NPC Nationals.

I am currently working with Lee Banks for the USAs and the Nationals for 2009.

So you see, I am not exactly an amateur with working extensively with athletes at the top level of competition.

We are entitled to our opinions, and I will respect yours, I ask that you do the same for me, so long as we use factual statements to convey our positions on various strategies for bodybuilding purposes.

You're missing my point in regards to Halo being extremely liver toxic. But you knew that.


Why you felt the need to post a few athletes, I'm not sure. Mind if I take about 20 pages to post mine?

As for blood work. In this case I used myself as an example to keep things briefs. If you'd like I can elaborate in regards to my trainee's blood panels over the years. See, besides myself, my trainee's are interested in how drugs effect them, so they too get BW done periodically. And I'm not talking 1 or 2 people either. 95 % is more like it. So when I speak on topics such as this, I have evidence to draw my conclusions.

-BLP-
02-12-2009, 04:13 PM
40mg halo 3 weeks, last 3 week precontest diet , that my plan

tjoe
02-12-2009, 04:15 PM
hey guys don't argue. I am listening to both sides, and I am just curious.
Still though, no-one answered my question.
A - if it were done, how much per day (split up how), how many weeks?

again, just looking for a small boost, nothing extreme. No extra weight, a bit more strength and a bit of extra aggression. Also keep in mind, PL/Strongman stuff, not stage presence.

RazorRipped
02-12-2009, 04:18 PM
hey guys don't argue. I am listening to both sides, and I am just curious.
Still though, no-one answered my question.
A - if it were done, how much per day (split up how), how many weeks?

again, just looking for a small boost, nothing extreme. No extra weight, a bit more strength and a bit of extra aggression.


No one is arguing. Points are being made, is all.

As for your question. You asked me this on MD if you recall.

tjoe
02-12-2009, 04:31 PM
yeah but I'm not there so much to relocate it. Thats why I bring it up again. and I figure some others here could get some benefit as well. I did re-read Daves answer about strength in Jan09 issue but that has 5-6 different compounds! at 1g of test per week! in that article he has a dose listing of 10, 15, 20, 25 the last 4 weeks prior to a comp. Since you mentioned being on 70 a day, I imagine 15-20 would be OK?
I do recall you mentioning that you would not need pct. and that it would be a grey(ish) area as far as not really being on aas. I am not very familiar with chemistry though.

tjoe
02-12-2009, 04:55 PM
OK RR, you made me go back and dig it up -

Me:
Thanks bro!
So what would a decent cycle look like with halo?
By itself? with test?
again thanks in advance!

RR:If you sort of want to stay in the grey area natty thing, HALO alone is awesome! No shut down, no acne, no night sweats(like tren gives you),and like I said NO PCT!

30 mgs a day is perfect for a first cycle. You can safely run that dose 6 weeks.
I know you'll hear from some people Halo is very liver toxic. All orals are liver toxic. Thing is, on the internet thread parrots like we have right here on this very board have no clue what they are talking about. The liver is far more resilient than most people think. So don't buy into the assholes that will say you'll kill your liver running orals for 6 weeks or so. If that was the case, bodybuilders around the world would be dropping like flies on a daily basis. Alcoholics drink a liter a day of vodka for months straight, some years, and you don't see them dieing. Eventually alcoholism will cause sclerosis of the liver, but that takes fucking years.

~RR

Me:
great post, thanks!
would you recommend anything for the liver while on halo or after?
glad I asked questions as I thought anadrol was best for strength.

RR:
DO NOT take any liver support supplements like milk thistle ect while on any orals. It effects the uptake of the oral.
When you come off the oral, use either milk thistle or Liv52. Look at it like PCT for the liver!

HALO= HUGE strength gains
Anadrol=moderate strength gains

~RR

Thanks again for your info. Perhaps some others will get a bit out of this as well.

Joe

PS - also found this:
These are all moderate/modest doses...

Halo= 30 mgs per day upwards to 6 weeks.
Dbol= 30 mg per day, split into six 5 mg doses throughout the day. You can safely run Dbol 8-10 weeks at this dose
Anadrol= 50-75 mgs per day. Can be ran safely 8-10 weeks

~RR

However that didn't answer my question about splitting up the Halo dose throughout the day??

RazorRipped
02-12-2009, 05:32 PM
However that didn't answer my question about splitting up the Halo dose throughout the day??


You need to look at the active lives of drugs. Orals in this case. As with winny, or anadrol, you need to split the dose twice daily.The same applies to Halo. Aprox 10- 12 hrs apart.

MUSCLEMUFFINS TEAM
02-12-2009, 05:35 PM
makes you strong and aggresive as fuck!

militantmuscle
02-12-2009, 06:44 PM
Sorry, tJoe.

First run a comprehensive metabolic panel and try to get a GGT test done. You only have one liver, and despite the assurances other people may give you, your liver values may be dramatically different form theirs.

If everything checks out, start with a 20mg dosage, you can bump it up to30/40mg if necessary. Fluoxymesterone has a half-life of 9.2 hours according to the FDA, so its active life should be 18.4 hours if the data holds. Basically, you can follow Razor's recommendations, and break up dosages twice a day.

The water retention with anadrol can be remedied through the use of natural diuretics such as dandelion extract. It depends on the affinity of water retention you experience. Anavar is another ideal substitute, since there is virtually no aromatization. I know a lot of guys scoff at anavar being used by men, but it stimulates the synthesis of phosphocreatine which translates into faster recuperation of ATP and distinctly higher levels, in that sense it is unmatched by any AAS. A clinical study showed a 44% in muscle cell protein synthesis after 5 days of administration. This would be my #1 choice, as a first drug for your situation, the benefits far outweigh any cost/risk ratio.

Razor, I mentioned several of my clients because I felt you implied that I was a self-proclaimed internet guru or armchair expert. I wanted to explain that I am no stranger to working with elite athletes and their physiques, and ensuring their health throughout the entire process. While the data you have acquired form yourself and your clients do have validity, ultimately they do not prove that tJoe may have a different liver panel than that of you and your clients. All I'm saying is tJoe has one liver, he might as well take proper precautions to prevent "the sky falling down". All the clients you work with and their test results won't make tJoe's liver exceptionally resilient. Though I understand what you mean, a typical guy's binge drinking on the weekend will make liver profiles for Anadrol look like child's play, nevertheless I prefer to be safe because I am risk averse.

As for the silymarin, I am sorry I did not specify the use for pct, and despite the faction of endocrinologists who think it is ineffective, conclusive studies have not been founded to support either position. So all we are doing is essentially conjecture.

I admire and respect what you do, I just wanted to express my opinion and make sure tJoe has the necessary information to make an educated choice that will hopefully achieve his goals while staying healthy.

I hope that helps tJoe, and sorry for the long-winded post.

RazorRipped
02-12-2009, 06:54 PM
I admire and respect what you do, I just wanted to express my opinion and make sure tJoe has the necessary information to make an educated choice that will hopefully achieve his goals while staying healthy.

.

We don't know one another,but from the posts I've read of yours, we're pretty much on the same page. I happen to like you. We'll, the internet you:)

I wasn't being condescending towards you in regards to my remarks on internet wannabee's. It was a blanket statement.;)

Anyway,I just wanted to clear that little misunderstanding up.

Peace, love,and all that other happy horse shit:)

militantmuscle
02-12-2009, 07:22 PM
Coming from you that means alot, I really appreciate it:)

Do you go to the Florida shows? I know you reside down south, it'd be cool to meet you at a show, like I said I admire and respect what you do and your extensive experience with your army of clients haha.

I fully sympathize with your blanket statement, its guys like that that give guys like us a bad name, giving haphazard advice that the forum guys take for gospel and run to try out immediately, effectively hurting them in unimaginable ways.

Take care bro, I am sure we will have a lot more scientific discussions in the future:)

tjoe
02-12-2009, 07:38 PM
now I am happy.
I got the info I was looking for and
I made freinds of RR and Elite316 :)

Thank you both for your info it is greatly appreciated.
as for me (if I decide to run it), I will probably go with 10mg 2x per day for 3 weeks.
I am not a big fan of the risk and realize I only have 1 liver, however at that dose/time span and considering my history (VERY light alchohol consumer for a very short time, other than that no drinking) I feel I will be OK.

-BLP-
02-14-2009, 02:32 AM
If I'm wrong about Halotestin being the most toxic liver oral, I will humbly apologize, but I am pretty sure that studies are conclusive that my statement was correct.

And while I do respect your personal experience, is tJoe = RazorRipped?

If RazorRipped = tJoe, then all effects associated with halotestin use with RazorRipped could be associated with tJoe by transitive property, but since that is not sure I don't think a personal testimonial can carry much weight in tJoe's case.

While my experience with physique athletes is not as extensive as yours, I do have a modest track record.

I worked with Gerald Jackson, 3rd place open heavyweight at the 2008 NPC All South.

I worked with Teddy Atkins Jr., who got 4th place welterweight class at 2008 NPC Nationals.

I am currently working with Lee Banks for the USAs and the Nationals for 2009.

So you see, I am not exactly an amateur with working extensively with athletes at the top level of competition.

We are entitled to our opinions, and I will respect yours, I ask that you do the same for me, so long as we use factual statements to convey our positions on various strategies for bodybuilding purposes.


great resume



who care about liver... it's about winning and be top first... not 4 or whatever , you do need knowledge and genetic but in that field a spoon of crazyness it a rule for success

Bryan Hildebrand
02-14-2009, 05:37 PM
I agree completely. I have never ever used milk thistle and after all these years have normal liver values. 4 weeks post and 3 months post.


Come on man. Stop with the "sky is falling" crap in regards top Halo being extremely liver toxic.

Taking Milk thistle while using any oral effects the absorption rate. Further, do you know how many endocrinologist think milk thistle is pretty much BS?

My last contest prep I ran 70 mg a day, for 10 weeks. Two weeks after dropping the Halo I had blood work done(as I always to post cycle) and my lipid/enzymes were pretty much in normal range. I have BW from several other Halo cycles, plus anadrol (which I love) and every time, my liver panels are in line 2 week after dropping an oral.

The liver is far more resilient than all these internet guru's/wannabee's lay claim to. Alcoholics are an example of this.

robert da strongman
02-14-2009, 06:09 PM
well i read through it....

good info.

toxic Avenger
02-15-2009, 02:33 AM
Come on man. Stop with the "sky is falling" crap in regards top Halo being extremely liver toxic.

Taking Milk thistle while using any oral effects the absorption rate. Further, do you know how many endocrinologist think milk thistle is pretty much BS?

My last contest prep I ran 70 mg a day, for 10 weeks. Two weeks after dropping the Halo I had blood work done(as I always to post cycle) and my lipid/enzymes were pretty much in normal range. I have BW from several other Halo cycles, plus anadrol (which I love) and every time, my liver panels are in line 2 week after dropping an oral.

The liver is far more resilient than all these internet guru's/wannabee's lay claim to. Alcoholics are an example of this.
I don't think these guys realize that everybody was running orals full cycle back in the 80s including me. Halo is rough for some though. I only ran it twice and once I felt toxic on it and actually got the flue. Had to stop taking it all together to knock out the flu.

chucksm00th
02-17-2009, 01:01 PM
Halo's great for strength while staying in weight class. I used it fro my last show and liked the hardness i got from it. Again if its for BB purposes you should eb lean first the same goes with Masteron otherwise its pointless.

Demorak
02-19-2009, 05:00 PM
interesting....makes me wanna try halo sometime

indianamonster1986
02-19-2009, 05:56 PM
40mg halo 3 weeks, last 3 week precontest diet , that my plan


Same here. Wtf you looking at my notes? But yea I ran them last contest for the last two weeks to help with aggression in the gym.

collegelinebacker31
02-19-2009, 07:15 PM
i know the detection time of halo is around 2 months, but if i was on halo and had to take a piss test would i even get caught? i mean do they actually look for that in the NCAA? anyone know?

militantmuscle
02-19-2009, 07:25 PM
It depends on the school, if they send it to the UCLA Olympic testing facility they can pretty much test for any AAS.

collegelinebacker31
02-19-2009, 07:32 PM
It depends on the school, if they send it to the UCLA Olympic testing facility they can pretty much test for any AAS.

ya but as far as just a typical piss test dont they just check for your t/e levels basically???

Viking
02-19-2009, 07:41 PM
I love Halo!!!

http://www.zero7ven.com/myspace/halo2.jpg

But anywho, I read halo is good for strength comps. Anyone have personal experience with the strength comps and halo?

ANABOLIC1
02-19-2009, 08:40 PM
god had spoken

Quoted for truth

ANABOLIC1
02-19-2009, 08:44 PM
great resume



who care about liver... it's about winning and be top first... not 4 or whatever , you do need knowledge and genetic but in that field a spoon of crazyness it a rule for success

You're goddamn right it is...

Your fucking liver will handle it.

But not taking the strongest drugs available will always leave you thinking "what if I had tried..."

You don't want regret - you want to grow.

Man the fuck up....

Pantera
02-20-2009, 12:29 PM
I have been anti orals for a while now,but ya'll just made me pop an M drol pill from a left over bottle that I swore I'd never use again.I want to try halotestin now which sounds good which is what started this.Then I realise I have the strongest legal oral in my closet and I'm finishing up a test cycle....Why not?

militantmuscle
02-20-2009, 12:33 PM
ya but as far as just a typical piss test dont they just check for your t/e levels basically???


I really couldn't tell you, sorry man. I would think that if they have reasonable suspicion, (elevated testosterone/epitestosterone ratio) they might go ahead and send it off to the lab, but it is basically up to the coaches I guess. It will depend on the program and the people involved, that kind of stuff is costly.