Should the IFBB Reinstate the Masters O? [Archive]

MITM

11-18-2010, 01:14 PM

http://www.mocvideo.com/shop/images/2001_masters_olympia.jpg

This thread was inspired by a question from Ryan Wacht & follow-up posts by GreenMachine on the late, great Don Youngblood. I remember reading Don's story in a MuscleMag Star Profile (Dave P. had a cool one too some years back). Star Profile is a magazine column that dedicates 3-4 pages all about a bodybuilder -- it's a great feature. Anyways, back to the topic at hand.

Some guys, and as I recall to the best of my recollection Bob Cicherillo (correct me if I'm wrong here Bob), do not believe people should be getting pro-cards at the Masters level in national competitions (I wonder if this position changed with good pal Jerome Fergueson getting his that way). But the point remains.. guys that go pro at the Masters level are probably going to have a hard time doing damage against guys in their mid 20's and early 30's. Here is Reason #1 why a Masters Olympia should be in place.

Bodybuilding being a sub-culture all its own should include all walks of life --and this includes age. The women have four categories based on physique, the men have two categories based on weight, and the NPC certainly makes all the accomonodations for Masters, Master 50+, Masters 60+, etc. Holding a top show for the older guys would also draw in more income. Reason #2

Diversity would also be a key factor - but mainly diversity at the Mr. Olympia. It used to be that the winner of the Masters O got an invite to the Mr. Olympia. The Olympia has mastered the concept of having a real international, multi-cultural value; however, the older guys rarely see this stage. Some may argue that Olympia qualifications shouldn't be cheapened, but in a sport that wants more $$$ and more mainstream appeal, sacrificing one measely O-qualification seems largely more modest than having an entire new class (the 202) created out of thin air.

These are my three reasons, I know you guys will have more.

I think it would be a very fitting idea to have someone like Vinny Galanti not only be able to go pro at a Masters show, but to also come back home Sandow in hand and title of Masters Mr. Olympia.

There were some greats back in the day: Vince Taylor, Don Youngblood, Claude Groulx. It was a great show. In fact, even Lou Ferrigno battled for this title - losing to Robby Robinson.

Bring back the Masters O! :yep:

jstevenson460

11-18-2010, 01:17 PM

Bring it back!

The Thinker

11-18-2010, 01:22 PM

I vote yes!

AVBG

11-18-2010, 01:46 PM

The Big Sexy

11-18-2010, 01:49 PM

I vote to also start a Master Physique Olympia as well...

DMC

11-18-2010, 01:57 PM

http://www.mikesclark.com/climbing/bearshit.jpg

axioma

11-18-2010, 02:02 PM

I don't think Stan Efferding will have a problem mixing it up in a pro show IF he decided to put his energy in that direction, so Bob can suck on that...However, overall, the top MN guys would probably be top 5...MAYBE 3 in Nats.

I am a Masters Nat competitor, placing 10th last year and hope to do better as a Hvy this year. IF....IF..I were to ever win a pro card, I have no illusions about mixing it up with Winklaar or Heath...it is the fact that I would be an IFBB pro! You can make money...what do the people want?

Look at how many people are fans of Rusty Jeffers, and not just because of his porn background, but because he has a physique that lots of guys would like to look like. The Masters have physiques that inspire others to emulate...

Good point on the women...right now a woman who has little or no trained muscle and some baby fat can make a living as a PRO! How fucked up is that? Don't get me wrong...I appreciated the look more when I was in my 20's, but now that I am in my 40's, I have moved on to women who train and show some dedication about their health. A bikini chick doesn't have to do anything other than bring what God gave her...that is why we have: Hooters....Hawaiian Tropic....strip clubs.....

Rant over: yes, let's reinstate the Masters O.

AlaskaMuscle

11-18-2010, 02:14 PM

Hell yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barrett

11-18-2010, 02:16 PM

of course. toney freeman would have that shit on LOCKDOWN!

nwtrnr1

11-18-2010, 02:23 PM

Bring it back, more people in competition is better for the sport helping bringing it into the mainstream. Some competitiors started training later in life, Don Youngblood being an example. Being a sport with much more longevity to it than most, as far as how long an athlete and compete I don't see an issue. Mr. Olympia is still Mr. Olympia, the Masters title distinguishes it from that anyway. If a guy wants to make money in this sport as a pro and works hard to get to that level it would be great to have Masters Olympia title for them. I see the sport expanding in the next few years simply because of the internet and more people getting into lifting young and old.

Triple-H_2005

11-18-2010, 02:53 PM

If they're going to subject us to allowing the bikini girls carrying the title of "Olympia", then yes...bring back the Masters. The best bodybuilders over 40 in the world deserve to carry that title FAR more than any set of implants that's been training for a whole year.

EKH

11-18-2010, 03:10 PM

Bring it back

The Big Sexy

11-18-2010, 03:11 PM

I would also like to see an over 40, over 50 and over 60 Masters Olympia bikini/figure... you know, to include all walks of life.

crossbellas

11-18-2010, 03:14 PM

Hell Yeah. Bring it on back

GerryT

11-18-2010, 03:32 PM

Definitely would like to see it back. Many of the top athletes are approaching or are past 40 (Dexter, Darrem, Toney, etc.).

With a pro masters event scheduled for 2011, tha could serve as a Masters O quaifier.

MICHAEL ARVILLA

11-18-2010, 03:41 PM

Yes!

osfitness

11-18-2010, 04:04 PM

I say yes... there are so many good Masters competitors out there.. It would be a shame to not let them turn pro. Some have waited years to get that chance.... PLus so many are starting later in life....

DAVIDHARDY

11-18-2010, 04:15 PM

MightyMetcalf

11-18-2010, 04:26 PM

Definitely bring it back!!!

MITM

11-18-2010, 05:19 PM

I would also like to see an over 40, over 50 and over 60 Masters Olympia bikini/figure... you know, to include all walks of life.

Not sure if you're kidding or not -- and I'm not advocating THAT much accomodation -- but the NPC Nat'ls do just that. Not to plug my site, but we interviewed Ray Temprano who Masters Nat'ls over 60. ;) lol :yep:

And I was talkin bodybuilding - the women already have four, actually five different classes and the women's case, age seems to work more in their favor that against (e.g. Betty Pariso). With the men, and given heavy training and wear & tear on the body, finding bodybuilders over 40, 50 that are injury-free and in top shape is rare.

Even Jumbo Palumbo -- you'd a given him new shoulders, he'd easily have been an IFBB PRO :)
You have awesome hair, but I'm right :) High Five! lol

Excuse me, I need to make toilet. (I love Borat :) )

p.s.
If the Florida show is going to be the equivalent, then call it the Masters O not the Pro World or w/e. Bob Cicherillo - in my book - is a Masters Mr. Olympia. If you're gonna have show like that, call it what it is, give the athlete the respect.

chick

11-18-2010, 05:41 PM

Not sure if you're kidding or not -- and I'm not advocating THAT much accomodation -- but the NPC Nat'ls do just that. Not to plug my site, but we interviewed Ray Temprano who Masters Nat'ls over 60. ;) lol :yep:

And I was talkin bodybuilding - the women already have four, actually five different classes and the women's case, age seems to work more in their favor that against (e.g. Betty Pariso). With the men, and given heavy training and wear & tear on the body, finding bodybuilders over 40, 50 that are injury-free and in top shape is rare.

Even Jumbo Palumbo -- you'd a given him new shoulders, he'd easily have been an IFBB PRO :)
You have awesome hair, but I'm right :) High Five! lol

Excuse me, I need to make toilet. (I love Borat :) )

p.s.
If the Florida show is going to be the equivalent, then call it the Masters O not the Pro World or w/e. Bob Cicherillo - in my book - is a Masters Mr. Olympia. If you're gonna have show like that, call it what it is, give the athlete the respect.

Its difficult to justify a "Masters Pro" division...you can only cut the pie into so many slices. It works at the NPC elvel...not so much in the pro's as the market for such a thing doesnt really exist to any signifficant degree.

As for turning them pro...you're right, I've never been an advocate of giving out pro cards to any other division, other than the open one....even as a Master BB champ, my stance hasent changed.

I believe there was a certain prestige that went along with winning a National title, USA, etc...that you were getting into the club of the elite, the best...I do understand all the economic factors, etc that went into making these other divisions "pro qualifiers"....but there is still that old school mentality that says you need to be the best of the best to be an IFBB pro...

MITM

11-18-2010, 06:08 PM

Its difficult to justify a "Masters Pro" division...you can only cut the pie into so many slices. It works at the NPC elvel...not so much in the pro's as the market for such a thing doesnt really exist to any signifficant degree.

As for turning them pro...you're right, I've never been an advocate of giving out pro cards to any other division, other than the open one....even as a Master BB champ, my stance hasent changed.

I believe there was a certain prestige that went along with winning a National title, USA, etc...that you were getting into the club of the elite, the best...I do understand all the economic factors, etc that went into making these other divisions "pro qualifiers"....but there is still that old school mentality that says you need to be the best of the best to be an IFBB pro...

Thanks for replying Bob. I used to be a hardcore PBW fan and I always liked your physique. I tend to butt heads with you at times over FBB and also because you seem to be a relatively tough guy and though I've always wished I was a brawler -- God made me a tree-hugger, but I digress - back to the point at hand.

I understand your view as far as giving out procards at the Masters level hasn't changed -- seemingly in over six years, but let me pose these next two questions.

#1 How does it sit with you that there is a 202 contest at the Olympia - whose winner does not square off against the Open winner? It's clear Jay is Mr. O, but we also have this O 202 Champ. There doesn't seem to be any major confusion who's the champ by Sunday night, right? So if the sponsors were present, do you think the fans might respond well to a Masters Championships taking place Olympia weekend in similar fashion to the under 202?

& for the second part of the question -- do you think the IFBB would take issue?

Because really -- for the older guys -- income is already coming from somewhere, they just want the trophy and the respect :)

chick

11-18-2010, 07:48 PM

Thanks for replying Bob. I used to be a hardcore PBW fan and I always liked your physique. I tend to butt heads with you at times over FBB and also because you seem to be a relatively tough guy and though I've always wished I was a brawler -- God made me a tree-hugger, but I digress - back to the point at hand.

I understand your view as far as giving out procards at the Masters level hasn't changed -- seemingly in over six years, but let me pose these next two questions.

#1 How does it sit with you that there is a 202 contest at the Olympia - whose winner does not square off against the Open winner? It's clear Jay is Mr. O, but we also have this O 202 Champ. There doesn't seem to be any major confusion who's the champ by Sunday night, right? So if the sponsors were present, do you think the fans might respond well to a Masters Championships taking place Olympia weekend in similar fashion to the under 202?

& for the second part of the question -- do you think the IFBB would take issue?

Because really -- for the older guys -- income is already coming from somewhere, they just want the trophy and the respect :)

I have no issue with multiple champions at the Olympia. There is no reason the 202 champ should be up there with Jay (or whoever is the Olympia champ)....it creates more problems.

What if the 202 guy isnt as good as the runner up, or 3rd, or 4th, etc place finisher?

This isnt the amateurs...point at the pro's is to reward the best of whats out there on stage. If there was no reason to have a 202 class, we wouldnt have put one in....

No different to me then why the multiple class winners of the MMA dont square off against each other....there are advantages and disadvantages both ways....

I see many advantages in having more than one champ...from a PR standpoint, from an athlete standpoint, etc...

2.) I'm sure the fans might appreciate it, but much like the FBB division...it just doesnt have the firepower to bring in sponsor dollars, or fans to attend.....like I said, works in the NPC, not in the IFBB. Even when we did have it, it wasnt well attended and eventually went the way of being put on with the Jan Tana, etc...

Personally, I'd rather see a "Teenage Mr. Olympia" rather than the old guys ....Much more viable, better for the preservation of the upcoming future champs, better exposure....

Hmmm.....kind of like that!

MITM

11-18-2010, 08:12 PM

I have no issue with multiple champions at the Olympia. There is no reason the 202 champ should be up there with Jay (or whoever is the Olympia champ)....it creates more problems.

What if the 202 guy isnt as good as the runner up, or 3rd, or 4th, etc place finisher?

This isnt the amateurs...point at the pro's is to reward the best of whats out there on stage. If there was no reason to have a 202 class, we wouldnt have put one in....

No different to me then why the multiple class winners of the MMA dont square off against each other....there are advantages and disadvantages both ways....

I see many advantages in having more than one champ...from a PR standpoint, from an athlete standpoint, etc...

2.) I'm sure the fans might appreciate it, but much like the FBB division...it just doesnt have the firepower to bring in sponsor dollars, or fans to attend.....like I said, works in the NPC, not in the IFBB. Even when we did have it, it wasnt well attended and eventually went the way of being put on with the Jan Tana, etc...

Personally, I'd rather see a "Teenage Mr. Olympia" rather than the old guys ....Much more viable, better for the preservation of the upcoming future champs, better exposure....

Hmmm.....kind of like that!

I hate being a kiss-ass but I agree in that I like that too. In another thread
Swede addressed the issue that the foreign amateurs come in more shredded than our guys in the NPC -- and while the NPC is strictly for U.S.-based bb'ers only, I'd love to see a teenage Canadian vs. a teenage American vs a Teenage Armenian -- kinda gauge where all these guys are physique-wise. It could be a lot of fun. :)

p.s.
One more question for ya -- (I'll keep asking until you ignore me, lol)

What's your take on the Canadians only getting one crack at the IFBB Pro card per year? I mean w/ the NPC guys have Nat'ls, USA's, North Americans, and Team U. And Team U & Nat'ls give out cards based on weight class - so that's even more ways.

I realize the U.S. has the biggest pool of athletes, but again, speaking from a dollars and cents context and as Athlete's Rep -- do think creating more opportunities for the guys internationally to go Pro would be a sound business move.

After this question -- I will stfu :) thanks. And Thanks to all for posting in support of the Masters O - I'd like to see MORE responses.

Sledge

11-18-2010, 08:13 PM

I would also like to see an over 40, over 50 and over 60 Masters Olympia bikini/figure... you know, to include all walks of life.

This. Bodybuilding is one of the few sports that allows people of all levels to compete as masters.

Lets be realistic. IFBB pro divission is just the top level amateurs. It's a progression to the A level as it were. It's not a real pro sports only a dozen people actually make any money. If the they are going to give a pro card to masters then not give them a place to compete it really makes the whole thing more of a joke than it is.

sassy69

11-18-2010, 08:16 PM

MITM

11-18-2010, 08:17 PM

Somehow I think that would promote more drug use in the young kids to get that title.

Can't be any more that at Teen Nat'ls. But strong point. :)
Also, it's been stated that Don Y. (don't want to put his name to avoid google hits) passed due to PED - I don't buy that. Anyone know of the actual cause of de*th?

bigdawg19

11-18-2010, 08:28 PM

Hell yea that would be awesome.:yep:

kentuckyslim

11-18-2010, 08:52 PM

Good point on the women...right now a woman who has little or no trained muscle and some baby fat can make a living as a PRO! How fucked up is that? Ridiculous statement - have you SEEN a bikini pro lately? What's fucked up is your attitude. Don't get me wrong...I appreciated the look more when I was in my 20's, but now that I am in my 40's, I have moved on to women who train and show some dedication about their health. A bikini chick doesn't have to do anything other than bring what God gave her...Perhaps at the local level, but she wouldn't get far. Another silly statement. Do you really believe that Sonia Gonzales (Ms. Bikini O) is just a perfect creature and sat on her ass for prep? Get real, buddy. that is why we have: Hooters....Hawaiian Tropic....strip clubs.....

Rant over: yes, let's reinstate the Masters O.

I agree with Chick, the fans may appreciate a Masters O but it wouldn't be very marketable or draw much sponsor support. A great idea but not realistic. :no:

MITM

11-18-2010, 08:55 PM

Though I've never asked for it before -- I wonder what Dave, Aaron, Chris, and JTProducer think on the matter? I value everyone's opinion, but I'm curious what the HMR hosts have to say?

chick

11-18-2010, 08:59 PM

I hate being a kiss-ass but I agree in that I like that too. In another thread
Swede addressed the issue that the foreign amateurs come in more shredded than our guys in the NPC -- and while the NPC is strictly for U.S.-based bb'ers only, I'd love to see a teenage Canadian vs. a teenage American vs a Teenage Armenian -- kinda gauge where all these guys are physique-wise. It could be a lot of fun. :)

p.s.
One more question for ya -- (I'll keep asking until you ignore me, lol)

What's your take on the Canadians only getting one crack at the IFBB Pro card per year? I mean w/ the NPC guys have Nat'ls, USA's, North Americans, and Team U. And Team U & Nat'ls give out cards based on weight class - so that's even more ways.

I realize the U.S. has the biggest pool of athletes, but again, speaking from a dollars and cents context and as Athlete's Rep -- do think creating more opportunities for the guys internationally to go Pro would be a sound business move.

After this question -- I will stfu :) thanks. And Thanks to all for posting in support of the Masters O - I'd like to see MORE responses.

The Canadian stuff gets a little funky, as it relates to the IFBB amateur division (which I really dont have anything to do with)....as does all the pro cards outside the USA...

I like the way the NPC has always done it, straight up. You win a pro qualifier, you turn pro....period. None of this petitioning to the country of origin, recommendations from that countries rep, etc....very strange.

I'm all for creating more opportunities, which Is why I'm so involved in the many aspects of the business of BB, the 202, Bikini, WPD, etc...

chick

11-18-2010, 09:02 PM

Somehow I think that would promote more drug use in the young kids to get that title. They already call out the Teen Nationals.

They represent the future of the sport, and more atention should be given IMO to expanding the brand out to make it more attractive to young guys...it's a tough enough sell as it is in this day and age....

No one is promoting more drug use, just creating more opportunity....no one is here to govern what they do or dont do....thats why they have parents.

MITM

11-18-2010, 09:11 PM

Bob,

I can't ask any more questions -- you've already answered so many. So this will be a statement to you -- as it's time go train chest.

I hope you can get (or try to get) permission from AMI/Weider (or whoever) to appear on HMR - as you do here on the RxMuscle boards. It came up on the last show, and it certainly would be great to hear from you.

peace.

Baldiewonkanobi

11-18-2010, 09:22 PM

Masters O is a great concept especially when the IFBB is awarding pro status in amateur masters competition. For all intense purposes the new Masters show in Florida is just that.. Masters world champs.

Love to see the Florida show open to more Masters classes...i.e. Over 50 and Over 60. I would be great to a mix of old established Masters along with recent Pro Carded NPC Masters Nationals class winners.

Baldie

MITM

11-18-2010, 09:27 PM

I'd like to see Jerome next to Galanti - who wins? I haven't really seen JF's latest shots. Would this be a nail-biter comparison? But I think JF wants to compete in the open shows - prolly not this one.
Maybe even Lou might come back, provided there is a Masters title in his age -- damn it -- I want Lou to win an Olympia -- I don't care what kind! :) Even the Master Olympia 70 & over class ;)

and this time -- keep ROBBY ROBINSON AWAY!!!!!

DAVIDHARDY

11-18-2010, 09:39 PM

If they bring it back, they should make them wear board shorts...

MITM

11-18-2010, 09:41 PM

As long I get Methyl 1-D I WILL WEAR BOARD SHORTS, lol. :yep:

DAVIDHARDY

11-18-2010, 09:51 PM

As long I get Methyl 1-D I WILL WEAR BOARD SHORTS, lol. :yep:
Make sure to add in some Natadrol for added antiboardshortness lol.

sassy69

11-18-2010, 09:57 PM

They represent the future of the sport, and more atention should be given IMO to expanding the brand out to make it more attractive to young guys...it's a tough enough sell as it is in this day and age....

No one is promoting more drug use, just creating more opportunity....no one is here to govern what they do or dont do....thats why they have parents.

I'm confused as to where you see this sitting - i.e. how do you qualify? Like Arnold Amateur? How does it differ from Teen Nationals? Are these teen pros or something? If its set up to be a big enough honor to win it, I would think you'd see that promoting drug abuse, and anyone who is half-educated would know guys < 20 shouldn't be messing w/ drugs anyway. Teen goes up to 19, which is 1 yr > 18, meaning 1 yr at least where they aren't subject to their parents' requirements and often people messing around w/ drugs aren't doing it w/ their parents' consent anyway.

Its a great idea, but it should be given a LOT of thought as to how you position it because it is the nature of the sport that bigger is better. You've gone to great extremes to remind us that women using drugs makes people uncomfortable so why would promoting a temptation for guys under 20 to do the same?

The Thinker

11-18-2010, 10:00 PM

My assumption is that in the past the market demand has not supported the continuation of masters levels pro shows. However, I assume if someone were able to create enough hype the IFBB wouldn't shoot it down (it's all about the Benjamins). I wonder if the IFBB have a problem "if" (and it's a big IF) a promotor wanted to incorporate a Masters Pro class and paid the IFBB sanction fees.

Carolyn Bryant

11-18-2010, 10:02 PM

Sledge

11-18-2010, 10:07 PM

chick

11-18-2010, 10:21 PM

The teen concept is ignorant and stupid. If you want to kill bodybuilding just promote drug use in teenagers. Sometimes I think people involved in bodybuilding have no idea how you are perceived by the rest of the population. The main stream media already have a field day with grown men and women using drugs. Start promoting the teens and see where it gets you.

Here is a clue for you...THERE HAVE BEEN TEEN SHOWS FOR 50 YEARS...LOCAL, STATE, AND NATIONAL SHOWS

You make it sound like this is something new....LOL.

Use your head....

BTW...The mainstream media doesnt even acknowledge us for the most part.

chick

11-18-2010, 10:26 PM

I'm confused as to where you see this sitting - i.e. how do you qualify? Like Arnold Amateur? How does it differ from Teen Nationals? Are these teen pros or something? If its set up to be a big enough honor to win it, I would think you'd see that promoting drug abuse, and anyone who is half-educated would know guys < 20 shouldn't be messing w/ drugs anyway. Teen goes up to 19, which is 1 yr > 18, meaning 1 yr at least where they aren't subject to their parents' requirements and often people messing around w/ drugs aren't doing it w/ their parents' consent anyway.

Its a great idea, but it should be given a LOT of thought as to how you position it because it is the nature of the sport that bigger is better. You've gone to great extremes to remind us that women using drugs makes people uncomfortable so why would promoting a temptation for guys under 20 to do the same?

No offense, but you seem to be confused about a lot lately...

Again, no one is promoting drug use....there have been teenage shows for 50+ years, all of a sudden it's promoting drug use??

Again, you seem to not get the whole Male/ female are different thing.....yes, women taking male hormones makes people uncomfortable. You really need to be told why?

Anyway....I assume it would be akin to a National event, they would qualify via the same way anyone qualifies for the Nats, USA, etc...

sassy69

11-18-2010, 10:27 PM

Here is a clue for you...THERE HAVE BEEN TEEN SHOWS FOR 50 YEARS...LOCAL, STATE, AND NATIONAL SHOWS

You make it sound like this is something new....LOL.

Use your head....

BTW...The mainstream media doesnt even acknowledge us for the most part.

I think he was referring to whatever is this Teen Mr O. The Olympia, just like the Pro Card, has certain great and reverent connotations. If you try to carry that over to the teens I think for one, you confuse the order of things, and if it becomes something that is "higher" than Teen Nationals w/ associated "rewards", you're going to be promoting drug use.

sassy69

11-18-2010, 10:30 PM

No offense, but you seem to be confused about a lot lately...

Again, no one is promoting drug use....there have been teenage shows for 50+ years, all of a sudden it's promoting drug use??

Again, you seem to not get the whole Male/ female are different thing.....yes, women taking male hormones makes people uncomfortable. You really need to be told why?

Anyway....I assume it would be akin to a National event, they would qualify via the same way anyone qualifies for the Nats, USA, etc...

Trust me I'm not confused about anything. Why are women using drugs? Because bigger is better and bigger is getting rewarded. Thus it is promoted. Shit, even tho its not as blatantly stated, I think plenty of people are uncomfortable about the amount of male hormones men are taking - doesn't really matter all that much if you're talking men or women when you're talking about anyone blowing their hormone profile off the scale - IMO no one group is worse than the other so its all sorta BS to target one and complete discount the other as if there's no issue at all and its totally normal.

You did clarify what my question was - when you're trying to use the association of the Olympia, now w/ teens, if its supposed to imply the peak of the peak of "teen" BB, then yes it will promote drug use more than the usual shows do now.

chick

11-18-2010, 10:37 PM

Trust me I'm not confused about anything. Why are women using drugs? Because bigger is better and bigger is getting rewarded. Thus it is promoted. Shit, even tho its not as blatantly stated, I think plenty of people are uncomfortable about the amount of male hormones men are taking - doesn't really matter all that much if you're talking men or women when you're talking about anyone blowing their hormone profile off the scale - IMO no one group is worse than the other so its all sorta BS to target one and complete discount the other as if there's no issue at all and its totally normal.

You did clarify what my question was - when you're trying to use the association of the Olympia, now w/ teens, if its supposed to imply the peak of the peak of "teen" BB, then yes it will promote drug use more than the usual shows do now.

See, thats where you are confused....there IS a big difference when women are turning themselves into men. And you wonder why it's not supported?

Rick Prince

11-18-2010, 10:38 PM

Yes

sassy69

11-18-2010, 10:40 PM

See, thats where you are confused....there IS a big difference when women are turning themselves into men. And you wonder why it's not supported?

You're looking at it as a matter of degrees - but it doesn't remove the fact that men are developing nice big fat guts, hair loss, gyno, etc - the point you're making is fine but it does not negate the extreme use of AAS in men, and as we were discussing, potentially in young men.

powergirl

11-18-2010, 10:46 PM

sassy69

11-18-2010, 10:54 PM

Any news on this lately? http://jarkasgym.com/ifbb
http://i56.tinypic.com/10p1pon.jpg

MITM

11-18-2010, 11:43 PM

I would love to see a Masters O. I get very motivated seeing people who have stayed in the game and excelled long past any other excuses other people are making.

In addition, I think many athletes would enjoy the prestige of the title far more than a huge purse, many people are into the sport for the lifestyle and realize the $$ will never be there....

I SAY DO IT. :)

Master World, Masters Galaxy, Masters Cosmos, Masters Int'l, Masters BBQ, Masters Greatest.. blah, blah, blah.

There was once a Masters Olympia, with a Sandow, and a lot of prestige.

Just like I said, and powergirl, and many of you out there...

At the Masters level it's no longer about the purse ($$) it's about the respect, and Bob has even said that the 202 show doesn't confuse the
fans/industry as far as who is Mr. Olympia is -- and for all the years
Vince Taylor was winning - no one ever thought he was in the same area
code as Ronnie Coleman -- but at least he got the respect.

I like the idea of Masters Pro World, but I like the idea of Masters Mr. O more. Bob C. is a Masters Pro World in my book.

Any chance the image could be re-sized -- it throws the whole thread outta whack.

Sledge

11-18-2010, 11:51 PM

Here is a clue for you...THERE HAVE BEEN TEEN SHOWS FOR 50 YEARS...LOCAL, STATE, AND NATIONAL SHOWS

You make it sound like this is something new....LOL.

Use your head....

BTW...The mainstream media doesnt even acknowledge us for the most part.

Not a highly publicised professional level show like the olympia as you suggested. They are usually a class tacked on to a full show little or no media coverage outside bodybuilding circles.

MITM

11-19-2010, 12:13 AM

Correction: In my book Bob C. is a Master Mr. O
(I messed up at the end of my last post)

The Great Chris Aceto -- what's your opinion on bringing this show back?
Aaron? Dave? Jeff?

p.s.
Thanks to Sassy for re-sizing the image. You rule :) ;)

Dee

11-19-2010, 12:24 AM

The masters had some great physiques, and it would give the older pros a chance to compete again (seeing as it gets harder to compete against the young dudes)....If they did bring this back, dexter would reign for a while......

The Big Sexy

11-19-2010, 12:53 AM

I'm starting to reconsider my enormous mass cycle of 100mg prop every week, 20mg Clomid a day, and 150mcg hcg 2x a week oh and some Clen too for anti-catabolism - after reading this thread I don't want people being uncomfortable around me because Im huge, bald and massive gut.

The Big Sexy

11-19-2010, 12:55 AM

Masters O but only for people who have not finished top 6 in an Olympia in the past 10 years.

I would hate to see Dexter Jackson the 12x masters Olympia !! Just because of who he is.

sassy69

11-19-2010, 12:56 AM

The Big Sexy

11-19-2010, 12:58 AM

With or without gyno?

I'm taking Clomid, almost too much, to counter that... I know my test levels are high with the prop, but I think it is necessary to pick up my pro card u know...

MITM

11-19-2010, 01:45 AM

Masters O but only for people who have not finished top 6 in an Olympia in the past 10 years.

I would hate to see Dexter Jackson the 12x masters Olympia !! Just because of who he is.

12x, lol. I think Dexter would have a hard time Darrem Charles (the King of the $10k shows) and who knows... what if Kevin Levrone & Flex Wheeler decided to compete in this category?

Who wouldn't pay top dollar to see Flex, Kevin, Shawn, & maybe even Lee Priest battling it out for Masters O? :) And just when Flex would be ready to take his Sandow, then the Big Nasty would come out with pac-man theme song and try 'n take it away. lol :)

Maybe yesteryear's Masters (Groulx, Jeffers, Taylor) weren't so big b/c we didn't grow up lookin up to them, but you bring in guys like Levrone, Wheeler, Ray, and PRIEST -- and I'd totally go see them fight for a Masters title maybe over seeing most of the young bucks in action.

I really think a Masters O - with the guys from the late 90's would be quite the big seller. I mean look at the huge response Kevin got with TLR -- and that stuff is no different than all the other whey, arginine, fat-burner series out by every company known to bb'ing. People wanted their hero back, and they were willing to buy his supplement line just to see him train again and eat his green beans on camera :)

People want to see the Baltimore Muscle Machine ... but no way is he going to go into an open class and get hammered. Masters type show seems more appealing and more level. I'm guessing -- it's not like Levrone is next to me eating morningstar burgers and drinking Diet Mountain Dew :)

Timbo89

11-19-2010, 02:41 AM

of course. toney freeman would have that shit on LOCKDOWN!

Dexter jackson would probably argue that.

Dexter, Toney, Troy, plus a few others would be in there. Who knows, it might even spark a comeback for a few guys if that money was right.

MITM

11-19-2010, 02:43 AM

Dexter jackson would probably argue that.

Dexter, Toney, Troy, plus a few others would be in there. Who knows, it might even spark a comeback for a few guys if that money was right.

I really need to get to sleep, but good of you to bring that name into the mix. I would love nothing more than to see a guy like Troy Alves hoist the Sandow and hear the roar of the audience. He's worked so hard all along and he's one of the most underrated guys in the business.

Another great comeback would be Vince Taylor -- I know he'd be back in a heartbeat to try and claim another Sandow :) Great poser, great body. Who knows... maybe even FRANK ZANE might make a cameo -- have you guys seen him lately? All natural, guy looks amazing!

Maybe Bob Paris might come back or Lee Labrada and Rich Gaspari -- I'm sure Gaspari Nutrition would sponsor Rich Gaspari -- he knows people, lol. Species could even sponsor King Kamali... lol j/k but who knows.

Tu Holmes

11-19-2010, 07:48 AM

No... because "no one" cares about bodybuilding.

Especially old people bodybuilding.

chick

11-19-2010, 08:09 AM

Not a highly publicised professional level show like the olympia as you suggested. They are usually a class tacked on to a full show little or no media coverage outside bodybuilding circles.

LOL....OK

Highly publicised to who? Maybe within our own industry, but I'm guessing you wouldnt see it on SportsCenter or CNN anytime soon...

Baldiewonkanobi

11-19-2010, 08:22 AM

[quote=ChristianDuque;1242280]I really need to get to sleep, but good of you to bring that name into the mix. I would love nothing more than to see a guy like Troy Alves hoist the Sandow and hear the roar of the audience. He's worked so hard all along and he's one of the most underrated guys in the business.

quote]

^^^

Baldie

bryantone

11-19-2010, 08:41 AM

There is alot of us older folks in the gyms nowadays. Brink it back. And yes, 50+ BBrs do have a source of income to spend on suppliments.

MITM

11-19-2010, 09:07 AM

There is alot of us older folks in the gyms nowadays. Brink it back. And yes, 50+ BBrs do have a source of income to spend on suppliments.

Yes they do! They are important! ;) And what I was saying also, is that by this age most of these guys have been in the game (of life) long enough to make their own living -- they just want the respect.

I'm sure they wouldn't return the $10,000 check -- or give it to Bob (GIVE IT TO ME SO I CAN GO TO VEGAS AND PARTY!!! yeah ok ...) - but more about standing toe-to-toe with your peers and being recognized.

There's always one or two guys on stage that look like they belong at the Sizzler's, but most guys up there have killed themselves -- and no one is a loser ya know?

A. The older guys should be in the spotlight some too.
B. The best of the older guys should be recognized.

HELL WHO THE FREAK IS OLD ANYWAYS? 40, 50? That's old??? hahahaa
In a few years you won't be able to retire until you're 70, people are living to a 100. So what? You can compete from 17-40 and then for the next 30, 40 yrs you're dead competitively? Really?!

I mean Frank Zane looks amazing! He could prolly be dangerous as a natural competitor today and take a Team U procard -- the guy is in his late 60's. You think he'd want to stand next to 22yr old? That's like a main card event between a heavyweight and a featherweight.

Tonight's fight: Mike "Iron Mike" Tyson vs. Oscar De La Hoya
I'm sure that would have been a massacre -- actually... I would have bet money on that (in a legal book) for Oscar -- anyone offering decent odds? Lol

Bring back the Masters O, call it the Master O, give Masters O respect, and hype it up.
That's the key. Robin Chang could hype up an ice giveaway in the North Pole, hyping men's bodybuilding 40+ should be NO problem. And with Bob as MC , forget about it. We could have Bob & LT up there ... maybe even hire Greg Valentino to give Bob tips on creating an aesthetic physique (JUST KIDDING BOBBO, lol)

MITM

11-19-2010, 09:18 AM

9ssYA3k8sRE
p.s.

What havin a photo with you run me? My hope is get bigger and ripped.
I'd like a pic like at 0:33, I'd doing the #1 sign. This would probably cost me a great deal of money and/or hardwork, but I'm staking my request early :)

p.p.s.
You don't need to be just wearing shorts (no homo). But a shot of us like that would be great for my office one day. I have a shot w/ Phil Heath in kalamazoo and I look like Yao Ming... basically a tall, skinny basketball player. I felt small. Feeling small stinks. I wanna be big. HUGE :) lol I wanna be like Dave and have to be so big I rip the neighboring seat-barrier off for leg room ;)

I also want to be a hit with the ladies and so... I am hoping Paul Dillett will offer a course on dating:) lol

Ronnie Rep

11-19-2010, 05:44 PM

Hell Yea! Bring it back!

hifrommike65

11-19-2010, 07:44 PM

Groulx was plenty big. Seeing him in the lobby of the hotel hosting the Masters O in 2003 stopped me in my tracks.

fitbody

11-19-2010, 08:05 PM

absolutely Master Mr.O

and weight classes for MS.O
while we are at it

sassy69

11-19-2010, 08:35 PM

You're looking at it as a matter of degrees - but it doesn't remove the fact that men are developing nice big fat guts, hair loss, gyno, etc - the point you're making is fine but it does not negate the extreme use of AAS in men, and as we were discussing, potentially in young men.

Or does it?

Triple-H_2005

11-19-2010, 09:00 PM

I think it all matters, to a degree. It's seems to be a far shorter road (my opinion!) to becoming an adult on everything in the pharmacy and abusing hGh, slin and peptides if one is a teen that's abusing AAS...

Triple-H_2005

11-19-2010, 09:01 PM

and weight classes for MS.O
while we are at it
Agreed!

I think if they'd kept this, we wouldn't have seen the move to Women's Physique, or at least not as soon...

partsRheavy

11-19-2010, 09:25 PM

I'm with Sassy on this one. There's no confusion here. It's a matter of logic.

Promote a Masters' Olympia, but not for the teenagers.

By definition of age, teens haven't lifted long enough to develop the muscle maturity that is required at that level.

Masters' sounds like a good idea. It's a legit contest of retention of muscle maturity, balance, etc. Maybe the young kids aren't interested in this segment of the market, but the old folks definitely are a market both for gyms and the supplement industry.

Curt James

11-19-2010, 09:38 PM

Its difficult to justify a "Masters Pro" division...you can only cut the pie into so many slices. It works at the NPC elvel...not so much in the pro's as the market for such a thing doesnt really exist to any signifficant degree.

Money, money, money.

Ben Weider made a mountain of money, but still held onto the Olympic spirit of honorable competition.

"I always remember Ben Weider, in his eloquent manner, speaking to us of his attempts to have our sport recognized by the International Olympic Committee so that bodybuilding would be an Olympic event. He worked tirelessly towards this. But, according to the IOC we were not a true "sport" in the traditional sense of performance.

I remember Ben Weider speaking in Auckland, New Zealand in 1980 and being sincerely angry at that years results of the Mr. Olympia in Sydney, Australia just days ago. He introduced me to that audience as the man who should have won the Title that year. (But we all went forward and out of respect for that year's winner, I was glad to have been 2nd, having placed 6th the year before).

I remember Ben Weider because he remembered names of my friends he had met only once before, with months between, and marveled at how he could do this. I remember Ben Weider for his degree of energy and total devotion in spreading our sport of bodybuilding over the world.

So, It is with great pride that on August 9th, 2008, I was honored as being the first recipient of the Ben Weider Lifetime Acheivement Award! Here is purely a case of one man's recognition of the hard work and dedication of another. Indeed, you bring honor to us all. Rest in peace Ben."
—Chris Dickerson

"Ben Weider was a giant in the world of bodybuilding. For more than 50 years he was the face of bodybuilding around the globe. His look and demeanour were elegant; I was dazzled every time I met him. No one was better suited to represent bodybuilding in a sophisticated way on all levels. What's more, he walked his talk, working out with weights regularly until the day he died. His impressive presence and valuable influence will be missed by everyone who cares about fitness and bodybuilding."
—Clarence Bass

I wonder if there will ever be a Bob Cicherillo Lifetime Acheivement Award. I'm thinking no. Maybe a Bob Chic Bean Counter tin cup.

"ROI, market, sponsors, money, money, money!" :rolleyes:

Masters O but only for people who have not finished top 6 in an Olympia in the past 10 years.

I would hate to see Dexter Jackson the 12x masters Olympia !! Just because of who he is.

:no:

1994 - Robby Robinson

1995 - Sonny Schmidt

1996 - Vince Taylor

1997 - Vince Taylor

1997 - Vince Taylor

1999 - Vince Taylor

2000 - Vince Taylor

2001 - Vince Taylor

2002 - Don Youngblood

2003 - Claude Groulx

Only Groulx and Youngblood meet your requirements... partially. The highest placing for Groulx at an Olympia was in 2003 when he placed 14th the same year he won the Masters event. For Youngblood his highest and only O placing came in 2002 when he placed last the same year he won the Masters.

Curt James

11-19-2010, 10:03 PM

See, thats where you are confused....there IS a big difference when women are turning themselves into men. And you wonder why it's not supported?

Earth... to... BOB!

Water hasn't been turned into wine in quite some time.

Unless you're Glenn Seaborg or have a particle accelerator in your back pocket you won't be turning lead into gold any time soon.

But even if a woman undergoes genital reassignment surgery she's not really a man. There's this little thing called "two copies of the X chromosome" which still makes that person "female".

So I really wish you would stop using terms like bestial and making comments like "women are turning themselves into men." They're not. They can't. Certainly not with dumbbells and hormones.

Or perhaps you could expand on your opinion. At what point is it too far? When does it—it being women training with weights—change from prim, proper, feminine, healthy, and cute to "turning themselves into men"? What's the cutoff?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/curt_james/Rx/smileys/daydream.gif

The Big Sexy

11-19-2010, 10:22 PM

Earth... to... BOB!

Water hasn't been turned into wine in quite some time.

Unless you're Glenn Seaborg or have a particle accelerator in your back pocket you won't be turning lead into gold any time soon.

But even if a woman undergoes genital reassignment surgery she's not really a man. There's this little thing called "two copies of the X chromosome" which still makes that person "female".

So I really wish you would stop using terms like bestial and making comments like "women are turning themselves into men." They're not. They can't. Certainly not with dumbbells and hormones.

Or perhaps you could expand on your opinion. At what point is it too far? When does it—it being women training with weights—change from prim, proper, feminine, healthy, and cute to "turning themselves into men"? What's the cutoff?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/curt_james/Rx/smileys/daydream.gif

I think Bob meant to say women are looking more like men... not that these steroids actually transform you into a man.

Although, I don't want to speak for him.

Curt James

11-19-2010, 10:42 PM

^You just did.

x100696

11-19-2010, 10:42 PM

Money, money, money.

Ben Weider made a mountain of money, but still held onto the Olympic spirit of honorable competition.

"I always remember Ben Weider, in his eloquent manner, speaking to us of his attempts to have our sport recognized by the International Olympic Committee so that bodybuilding would be an Olympic event. He worked tirelessly towards this. But, according to the IOC we were not a true "sport" in the traditional sense of performance.

I remember Ben Weider speaking in Auckland, New Zealand in 1980 and being sincerely angry at that years results of the Mr. Olympia in Sydney, Australia just days ago. He introduced me to that audience as the man who should have won the Title that year. (But we all went forward and out of respect for that year's winner, I was glad to have been 2nd, having placed 6th the year before).

I remember Ben Weider because he remembered names of my friends he had met only once before, with months between, and marveled at how he could do this. I remember Ben Weider for his degree of energy and total devotion in spreading our sport of bodybuilding over the world.

So, It is with great pride that on August 9th, 2008, I was honored as being the first recipient of the Ben Weider Lifetime Acheivement Award! Here is purely a case of one man's recognition of the hard work and dedication of another. Indeed, you bring honor to us all. Rest in peace Ben."
—Chris Dickerson

"Ben Weider was a giant in the world of bodybuilding. For more than 50 years he was the face of bodybuilding around the globe. His look and demeanour were elegant; I was dazzled every time I met him. No one was better suited to represent bodybuilding in a sophisticated way on all levels. What's more, he walked his talk, working out with weights regularly until the day he died. His impressive presence and valuable influence will be missed by everyone who cares about fitness and bodybuilding."
—Clarence Bass

I wonder if there will ever be a Bob Cicherillo Lifetime Acheivement Award. I'm thinking no. Maybe a Bob Chic Bean Counter tin cup.

"ROI, market, sponsors, money, money, money!" :rolleyes:

:no:

1994 - Robby Robinson

1995 - Sonny Schmidt

1996 - Vince Taylor

1997 - Vince Taylor

1997 - Vince Taylor

1999 - Vince Taylor

2000 - Vince Taylor

2001 - Vince Taylor

2002 - Don Youngblood

2003 - Claude Groulx

Only Groulx and Youngblood meet your requirements... partially. The highest placing for Groulx at an Olympia was in 2003 when he placed 14th the same year he won the Masters event. For Youngblood his highest and only O placing came in 2002 when he placed last the same year he won the Masters.
Everyone's title to their opinion, but what people are forgetting is that Chic IS trying to propel the sport forward. I don't understand why people think he is betraying bodybuilding when he obviously has a true love for the sport. The recent IFBB decisions may not be popular within bodybuilding circles but are necessary if the sport is to reach those who currently cannot relate to the sport. Here's my thing, anyway you shake it the womens IFBB isn't working...period. I love the sport the way it is, but if the sport is going to grow, we all have to make sacrifices. I'm not comparing Chic to Ben Weider, I'm just saying his love for the sport can't be questioned, and I think he deserves ALOT of credit for helping to make the necessary changes to keep the awesome sport falling into obscurity. I have a feeling in 20 years we'll be glad these changes were made.

chick

11-19-2010, 11:08 PM

Money, money, money.

Ben Weider made a mountain of money, but still held onto the Olympic spirit of honorable competition.

"I always remember Ben Weider, in his eloquent manner, speaking to us of his attempts to have our sport recognized by the International Olympic Committee so that bodybuilding would be an Olympic event. He worked tirelessly towards this. But, according to the IOC we were not a true "sport" in the traditional sense of performance.

I remember Ben Weider speaking in Auckland, New Zealand in 1980 and being sincerely angry at that years results of the Mr. Olympia in Sydney, Australia just days ago. He introduced me to that audience as the man who should have won the Title that year. (But we all went forward and out of respect for that year's winner, I was glad to have been 2nd, having placed 6th the year before).

I remember Ben Weider because he remembered names of my friends he had met only once before, with months between, and marveled at how he could do this. I remember Ben Weider for his degree of energy and total devotion in spreading our sport of bodybuilding over the world.

So, It is with great pride that on August 9th, 2008, I was honored as being the first recipient of the Ben Weider Lifetime Acheivement Award! Here is purely a case of one man's recognition of the hard work and dedication of another. Indeed, you bring honor to us all. Rest in peace Ben."
—Chris Dickerson

"Ben Weider was a giant in the world of bodybuilding. For more than 50 years he was the face of bodybuilding around the globe. His look and demeanour were elegant; I was dazzled every time I met him. No one was better suited to represent bodybuilding in a sophisticated way on all levels. What's more, he walked his talk, working out with weights regularly until the day he died. His impressive presence and valuable influence will be missed by everyone who cares about fitness and bodybuilding."
—Clarence Bass

I wonder if there will ever be a Bob Cicherillo Lifetime Acheivement Award. I'm thinking no. Maybe a Bob Chic Bean Counter tin cup.

"ROI, market, sponsors, money, money, money!" :rolleyes:

:no:

1994 - Robby Robinson

1995 - Sonny Schmidt

1996 - Vince Taylor

1997 - Vince Taylor

1997 - Vince Taylor

1999 - Vince Taylor

2000 - Vince Taylor

2001 - Vince Taylor

2002 - Don Youngblood

2003 - Claude Groulx

Only Groulx and Youngblood meet your requirements... partially. The highest placing for Groulx at an Olympia was in 2003 when he placed 14th the same year he won the Masters event. For Youngblood his highest and only O placing came in 2002 when he placed last the same year he won the Masters.

Here you go...enjoy!

http://www.ifbbpro.com/features/ifbb-pro-league-achievement-medal/

Ben himself presented this award to me, as I felt it a great honor that he appreciated my work, and my vision for the future of the IFBB...

MITM

11-19-2010, 11:10 PM

^You just did.

Lol (I hate stupid "lol" or "Agreed" quick responses, but I actually did laugh out loud);
howeveer TBS can take comfort in knowing I'm bald and want hair but it ain't growin all over my dome - like on Lou Ferrigno :( ;)

& Chick... what about my photo :( lol
C'mon.. I need something to wow the clients with :)

Dee

11-20-2010, 01:24 AM

Here you go...enjoy!

http://www.ifbbpro.com/features/ifbb-pro-league-achievement-medal/

Ben himself presented this award to me, as I felt it a great honor that he appreciated my work, and my vision for the future of the IFBB...

Like most, i appreciate your contributions to bodybuilding.....but wtf are you wearing in that picture?

The Big Sexy

11-20-2010, 01:41 AM

Like most, i appreciate your contributions to bodybuilding.....but wtf are you wearing in that picture?

That jacket is fucking pimp, I need on in Carolina Blue.

Curt James

11-20-2010, 02:19 AM

^^^^That jacket (see below) in Carolina Blue with your fauxhawk would work. http://forums.rxmuscle.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

I wonder if there will ever be a Bob Cicherillo Lifetime Achievement Award.

Here you go...enjoy!

http://www.ifbbpro.com/features/ifbb-pro-league-achievement-medal/

Ben himself presented this award to me, as I felt it a great honor that he appreciated my work, and my vision for the future of the IFBB...

Nice pic.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TOdp6edZJfI/AAAAAAAABDA/Zv3o4h6H2-A/s720/RobWilkins-BobC-BW-DanSolomon-RobinChang.jpg
L-R: Rob Wilkins, Bob Cicherillo, Ben Weider, Dan Solomon, Robin Chang

But you receiving an award is not quite the same as having an award named after you which was what I was wondering. And doubting.

I've listened to every episode of PBW but am sorely disappointed in your approach to promoting the WP, mating your fervor for the new division with a seemingly bashing and disrespectful attitude towards female bodybuilders.

Which is exactly what the new competitors will be. If the judges can't handle the previous go at revamping female physique in the form of the never-enforced 20% rule then the WP will morph in the same manner as men's and women's bodybuilding already has.

Plus there's the matter of the following you seem to have sidestepped.

I really wish you would stop using terms like bestial and making comments like "women are turning themselves into men." They're not. They can't. Certainly not with dumbbells and hormones.

Or perhaps you could expand on your opinion. At what point is it too far? When does it—it being women training with weights—change from prim, proper, feminine, healthy, and cute to "turning themselves into men"? What's the cutoff?

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TOdtairupbI/AAAAAAAABDI/EmTXeK6m4pU/bettypariso-benweider.jpg
2006 Flex Award for Female Athlete of the Year presented to Betty Pariso by Ben Weider

Did your fellow IFBB Professional League Athlete Representative exceed your cutoff?

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TOdvo0upDHI/AAAAAAAABDU/uAQGkGl1nj0/bettyhavingfun.jpg
Betty having fun!

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TOdvoyyazcI/AAAAAAAABDQ/NcgFpiSuvSU/betty-pariso.jpg
Betty Pariso, IFBB Pro, Athlete Rep, and Promoter

Or does Pariso get a genuine Bob Cicherillo pass because of her ROI?

lastrep

11-20-2010, 09:00 AM

I have no issue with multiple champions at the Olympia. There is no reason the 202 champ should be up there with Jay (or whoever is the Olympia champ)....it creates more problems.

False. There is EVERY reason the 202 champ should be up there COMPARED against the 202+ champ (currently referred to as Mr. O)

Every single fan out there, beside perhaps you, think the 202 should get the respect they deserve.. the 202 don't train any less than the 202+ and the 202+ don't train any more than the 202 guys.

The winner of the 202+ should go against the 202 class at the end for the OVERALL MR OLYMPIA title. This would be fair and respect would be given to ALL athletes. Sure the 202+ winner would usually win.. but hey.. it would add some MUCH NEEDED excitement and entertainment to the sport.

Tradition was for decades to have class winners.. so it IS part of the sport. Just because it isn't part of the Olympia today doesn't mean it's working.. it's just stuck there because people are blind to pushing the sport forward, or simply don't have a clue after 60 years.

Anyways, the only problems we have is the way the sport currently is :(

x100696

11-20-2010, 09:35 AM

False. There is EVERY reason the 202 champ should be up there COMPARED against the 202+ champ (currently referred to as Mr. O)

Every single fan out there, beside perhaps you, think the 202 should get the respect they deserve.. the 202 don't train any less than the 202+ and the 202+ don't train any more than the 202 guys.

The winner of the 202+ should go against the 202 class at the end for the OVERALL MR OLYMPIA title. This would be fair and respect would be given to ALL athletes. Sure the 202+ winner would usually win.. but hey.. it would add some MUCH NEEDED excitement and entertainment to the sport.

Tradition was for decades to have class winners.. so it IS part of the sport. Just because it isn't part of the Olympia today doesn't mean it's working.. it's just stuck there because people are blind to pushing the sport forward, or simply don't have a clue after 60 years.

Anyways, the only problems we have is the way the sport currently is :(
I disagree. If Branch, Dexter, Wolf, Kai, and Phil can't take out Jay then why compare a 202 to him? Nobody's saying they don't trains just as hard but it would be a ridiculous comparison. Just like George St.Pierre trains just as hard as Brock Lesnar, but if he went up against him, he'd get his ass kicked. IMO it'd be dumb to compare a 202 winner agains the top guys, and for them to get destroyed and not even finish in the top 6. It would diminish their accomplishment. Fair or unfair, it's still a big-boys sport. I think your idea of the Mr.O going and competing against the 202 competitors is the worst idea ever assembled by mankind....

MITM

11-20-2010, 12:28 PM

http://www.mydailymanga.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/coleman_arnold.jpg

Give Coleman 1 More Chance @ 9 Sandows
(even if a Masters Sandow isn't the same, it sure would make him smile)

i agree with the many of the comments -- and while I would like to see the 202 champ standing next to the overall, that's not what I'm advocating. What this tells me, at least, is that the fan support is there! Because many of us on the boards represent the views of hundreds, if not thousands of fans that either don't have access to this forum or simply choose to participate in other ways - or not at all.

Given the UNDENIABLE support for the 202 (from the athletes to the supplement companies), I believe that having a Masters OLYMPIA would be generate could income.

Maybe a company might be reluctant to sponsor a Master's World or Masters Mr. Maple St., but the name-recognition and word of mouth associated with the massive, professionally developed name of Mr. Olympia -- creates a huge marketing opportunity for many up-and-coming companies and well-established giants as well.

a masters OLYMPIA is going to get the sponsorship monies -- even as a one time experimental run (esp. after not having one since 2003) -- it would make a nice return on investment.

Having Coleman, Levrone, Wheeler, Ray, Jackson, Priest, Dillett, Kamali, CORMIER, Toney Freeman, Darrem Charles all going for a MASTERS SANDOW -- and IMAGINE HOW COOL IT WOULD BE (KINDA TONGUE-IN-CHEEK for Coleman to get his NINTH SANDOW (but one of the 9 be a Masters) and the kind of friendly rivalry that could create with 8x Mr. Olympia Lee Haney -- and the kind of Historical Trick Question that would make for :) "He won 9, but he really won 8, but he has 9 Sandows." LOL

BRING
IT BOB
BACK

if you can't do it, no one can ;) lol

Curt James

11-20-2010, 12:56 PM

Every single fan out there, beside perhaps you, think the 202 should get the respect they deserve.(snip)

The winner of the 202+ should go against the 202 class at the end for the OVERALL MR OLYMPIA title. This would be fair and respect would be given to ALL athletes. Sure the 202+ winner would usually win.. but hey.. it would add some MUCH NEEDED excitement and entertainment to the sport.

Tradition was for decades to have class winners.. so it IS part of the sport. (snip)

This.

XiUubuLIGVk

Some may argue that Franco "knew his place," however from articles I've read Franco definitely believed he had a chance to squeeze past his friend and training partner on the merits of harder conditioning and a superior back.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TOgLUM0PEPI/AAAAAAAABDs/e4uARYtfOK8/francobls.jpg

Bryan Hildebrand

11-20-2010, 01:34 PM

Its difficult to justify a "Masters Pro" division...you can only cut the pie into so many slices. It works at the NPC elvel...not so much in the pro's as the market for such a thing doesnt really exist to any signifficant degree.

so, with the vast array of womens opportunities, why have so few made it into the mainstream of society compared to the limited opportunities for men, but so many men have ventured into print, film, politics and government? you can argue societal acceptance, but without a definitive backhand, you can only speculate.

maybe if there were more opportunities for men, hence, rearrange the pie slices, there could be a wider acceptability into mainstream society. soemthing the NPC and IFBB thrive for?

personally, I think your motives are personal, thus reflecting the overall position that the IFBB/NPC has taken.

MITM

11-20-2010, 05:40 PM

so, with the vast array of womens opportunities, why have so few made it into the mainstream of society compared to the limited opportunities for men, but so many men have ventured into print, film, politics and government? you can argue societal acceptance, but without a definitive backhand, you can only speculate.

maybe if there were more opportunities for men, hence, rearrange the pie slices, there could be a wider acceptability into mainstream society. soemthing the NPC and IFBB thrive for?

personally, I think your motives are personal, thus reflecting the overall position that the IFBB/NPC has taken.

Actually this is a key point and would like to know if Bob would have the guts to reply candidly. Bob, you act as Athlete's Rep -- do you make decisions impartially - do you try to be impartial? Or is do your own personal opinions shape your answers as Athlete's Rep?

Again this is a VERY, VERY personal question, but Uncle Attila (if I understand correctly) is basically wanting to know if you have an ulterior motive as far as the Women go, and I think it's bona fide question, especially since I don't see Betty Pariso putting up threads about the shortcomings of the Men and/or taking opportunities away from them -- just saying.

You could always say that would be outside the scope of Betty's work, but you seem to have many opinions on the Women - and that would seem to be you outside yours. :p

BRING BACK THE MASTERS Mr. OLYMPIA!

chick

11-20-2010, 07:06 PM

chick

11-20-2010, 07:09 PM

Actually this is a key point and would like to know if Bob would have the guts to reply candidly. Bob, you act as Athlete's Rep -- do you make decisions impartially - do you try to be impartial? Or is do your own personal opinions shape your answers as Athlete's Rep?

Again this is a VERY, VERY personal question, but Uncle Attila (if I understand correctly) is basically wanting to know if you have an ulterior motive as far as the Women go, and I think it's bona fide question, especially since I don't see Betty Pariso putting up threads about the shortcomings of the Men and/or taking opportunities away from them -- just saying.

You could always say that would be outside the scope of Betty's work, but you seem to have many opinions on the Women - and that would seem to be you outside yours. :p

BRING BACK THE MASTERS Mr. OLYMPIA!

Other than logic and an understanding of basic business....what "ulterior motive" could I possibly have?

The mens divisions are still the cornerstone of the industry, and will always be...so I'm not quite sure what Betty (or anyone else) would have to say...in your senario.

chick

11-20-2010, 07:19 PM

^^^^That jacket (see below) in Carolina Blue with your fauxhawk would work. http://forums.rxmuscle.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

Nice pic.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TOdp6edZJfI/AAAAAAAABDA/Zv3o4h6H2-A/s720/RobWilkins-BobC-BW-DanSolomon-RobinChang.jpg
L-R: Rob Wilkins, Bob Cicherillo, Ben Weider, Dan Solomon, Robin Chang

But you receiving an award is not quite the same as having an award named after you which was what I was wondering. And doubting.

I've listened to every episode of PBW but am sorely disappointed in your approach to promoting the WP, mating your fervor for the new division with a seemingly bashing and disrespectful attitude towards female bodybuilders.

Which is exactly what the new competitors will be. If the judges can't handle the previous go at revamping female physique in the form of the never-enforced 20% rule then the WP will morph in the same manner as men's and women's bodybuilding already has.

Plus there's the matter of the following you seem to have sidestepped.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TOdtairupbI/AAAAAAAABDI/EmTXeK6m4pU/bettypariso-benweider.jpg
2006 Flex Award for Female Athlete of the Year presented to Betty Pariso by Ben Weider

Did your fellow IFBB Professional League Athlete Representative exceed your cutoff?

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TOdvo0upDHI/AAAAAAAABDU/uAQGkGl1nj0/bettyhavingfun.jpg
Betty having fun!

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TOdvoyyazcI/AAAAAAAABDQ/NcgFpiSuvSU/betty-pariso.jpg
Betty Pariso, IFBB Pro, Athlete Rep, and Promoter

Or does Pariso get a genuine Bob Cicherillo pass because of her ROI?

Betty herself believes the sport has gone to far, and is in a tailspin....why do you think she retired? I've had many, many conversations with Betty...and no...she actually likes her physique better back when she first turned pro. Betty is very candid and honest about her opinions and direction the sport should go.

Concerning your other question: When does it go too far? When the femininity started to be replaced with masculinity....it goes too far when there is little to no return on the dollar....it goes too far when the fanbase has all but evaporated. And it REALLY goes too far when the women themselves have begun to pull back by way of electing NOT to continue on competing because even they dont want to do it anymore...

I've got an interesting article I'll try and scan and post for you (and everyone else interested)....written in 1984 by Claudia Wilborn. Some interesting insight...

MITM

11-20-2010, 08:08 PM

Other than logic and an understanding of basic business....what "ulterior motive" could I possibly have?

The mens divisions are still the cornerstone of the industry, and will always be...so I'm not quite sure what Betty (or anyone else) would have to say...in your senario.

Well my scerario was basically regarding the point that as the {Male} Athlete's Rep you seem to have a lot of opinons on the Women - especially FBB.

My real question in this thread - and you haven't really addressed (especially since I just asked it a few posts ago) -- but how marketable would it be to allow history to be made and have Ronnie go for his ninth sandow in a Masters Olympia type show. Are you telling me that wouldn't make $$$? :yep:

chick

11-20-2010, 08:43 PM

Well my scerario was basically regarding the point that as the {Male} Athlete's Rep you seem to have a lot of opinons on the Women - especially FBB.

My real question in this thread - and you haven't really addressed (especially since I just asked it a few posts ago) -- but how marketable would it be to allow history to be made and have Ronnie go for his ninth sandow in a Masters Olympia type show. Are you telling me that wouldn't make $$$? :yep:

It wouldnt count.....Masters is just that..."Masters". So no...history wouldn't be made

It would be cool to see him compete again (assuming he can still get in decent shape)...but we may get that chance in the Masters World Championships which is being put together as we speak....

Dee

11-20-2010, 08:45 PM

lol @ every thread here becoming womens fbb vs the world....

as chick said, the masters O wouldnt be the open O, so it wouldnt be a "ninth" anything if ronnie won it.

chick

11-20-2010, 08:48 PM

Well my scerario was basically regarding the point that as the {Male} Athlete's Rep you seem to have a lot of opinons on the Women - especially FBB.

My real question in this thread - and you haven't really addressed (especially since I just asked it a few posts ago) -- but how marketable would it be to allow history to be made and have Ronnie go for his ninth sandow in a Masters Olympia type show. Are you telling me that wouldn't make $$$? :yep:

Regarding your other question....I have a lot of opinions on a lot of things. I've always looked out for ALL the athletes, not just the men. Most of the proposals I've put in over the years have benefitted everyone...

MITM

11-20-2010, 08:52 PM

It wouldnt count.....Masters is just that..."Masters". So no...history wouldn't be made

It would be cool to see him compete again (assuming he can still get in decent shape)...but we may get that chance in the Masters World Championships which is being put together as we speak....

We're talking about Ronnie Coleman here - getting in "decent shape" would be a cakewalk for arguably the greatest bb'er that ever lived. It would make for a great trivia question -- 9 sandows, but only 8 count, lol.

Regarding your other question....I have a lot of opinions on a lot of things. I've always looked out for ALL the athletes, not just the men. Most of the proposals I've put in over the years have benefitted everyone...

Also, please don't think I'm underestimating your role for the athletes - everything from increased prize money to the 202 to any and all discussion about pensions, health insurance, and even some retirement talk has been in no small part attributed to you and earlier, to Shawn Ray.

I'm guessing that at least of the 2nd places you received, either at the '03 N.O.C. or the '02 SW Pro may have been punishments in disguise, but I'm sure the judges/Federation have better things to do with their time that union-busting ;)

sassy69

11-20-2010, 09:02 PM

A practical point is that a lot of the names coming up for Masters are guys who have not competed in years and the financial return for going thru all the prep is possibly just not worth it. I could see a really cool event of "meet the masters" to get all the classic icons at a seminar or something and have autograph signings, hear stories, etc. Those who would be in a position to compete, are still competing. Unfortunately, strategically they may be past their primes for actually getting the Sandow. Then its just not financially worth it again.

This World Masters thing has a quarter million dollars or something behind it - THAT is an event that would be worth seeing and worth participating in. A one-time even talso has greater value in that it is a one-time thing instead of "oh maybe I"ll see it next year".

Bryan Hildebrand

11-20-2010, 09:50 PM

Who's looking for mainstream acceptance? Not me...I figured out a long time ago, that BB will never be a mainstream sport for the simple reason theats it's not mainstream to begin with....

We dont have to appeal to mainstream...we need to focus on appealing to our OWN fans, first and foremost.

Not sure what else you're trying to say...

again, you have proved my point. most every response of yours has been filled with self serving antidotes and single viewed pessimistic attitude. who are these people you fail to understand? the very ones you represent, the ones trying to take their young lives somewhere, not the fans. leave that to marketing.

lilarnold

11-20-2010, 10:02 PM

i say bring it back.......put it in the olympia expo and charge admission to watch it. .......or combine it with the 202 show on the main stage. id watch it i know that.....btw.......toney freeman would be master mr. o for the next 10 years...LOL

chick

11-20-2010, 10:11 PM

again, you have proved my point. most every response of yours has been filled with self serving antidotes and single viewed pessimistic attitude. who are these people you fail to understand? the very ones you represent, the ones trying to take their young lives somewhere, not the fans. leave that to marketing.

What the hell are you talking about?

lilarnold

11-20-2010, 10:12 PM

lol@chick

MITM

11-20-2010, 11:57 PM

What the hell are you talking about?

sVACRmgt5B0

I think he's asking how impartial you are in representing the bodybuilders, and wanting to know less about your efforts at making the sport more appealing to the fans.

I think he might be suggesting that a blind man could lead the Men better than you, lol j/k. I don't know, but I get a bit of that from reading his post.

ANALIPSI

11-21-2010, 11:45 AM

YES BRING BACK:yep:

Mufasa

11-21-2010, 12:27 PM

I am sort of "out of the loop..."

What was the official reason for it being eliminated in the first place?

(I think that would add to the discussion...)

Mufasa

Curt James

11-21-2010, 12:51 PM

maybe if there were more opportunities for men, hence, rearrange the pie slices, there could be a wider acceptability into mainstream society. something the NPC and IFBB thrive for?

personally, I think your motives are personal, thus reflecting the overall position that the IFBB/NPC has taken.

Who's looking for mainstream acceptance? Not me...I figured out a long time ago, that BB will never be a mainstream sport for the simple reason theats it's not mainstream to begin with....

We dont have to appeal to mainstream...we need to focus on appealing to our OWN fans, first and foremost.

Not sure what else you're trying to say...

That perhaps you have something against female bodybuilders. That your motives are personal.

Ever dated a FBB? Have you ever been dumped by a FBB? Ever hit on a FBB? Ever been turned down by a FBB?

I don't know what uncle attila was trying to say either, but I know what taking something personally means. Regardless, do you have a grudge against FBB?

Because there's really no need to constantly be spouting off about "women looking like men" and making other negative comments about the female bodybuilding competitors. You're very flippant about a subject that many people take very seriously.

Curt James

11-21-2010, 01:07 PM

A practical point is that a lot of the names coming up for Masters are guys who have not competed in years and the financial return for going thru all the prep is possibly just not worth it. I could see a really cool event of "meet the masters" to get all the classic icons at a seminar or something and have autograph signings, hear stories, etc.

That could be really cool. The early Arnold Classics were great. Met Grimek, Draper, Mike Katz, so many legends of the sport.

i say bring it back.......put it in the olympia expo and charge admission to watch it. .......or combine it with the 202 show on the main stage. id watch it i know that.....btw.......toney freeman would be master mr. o for the next 10 years...LOL

This.

I am sort of "out of the loop..."

What was the official reason for it being eliminated in the first place?

ROI, of course. :cloud: Because, hey, if it's not making the federation money then the hell with it!

Mufasa

11-21-2010, 01:19 PM

I'm not following you here, Curt.

1) What do you consider a "reasonable" return on investment?

2) When one has a buisness...at what point do you discontinue a product line, or in the case of Physique Competition, a division, that is not profitable/self-sustaining?

Mufasa

Curt James

11-21-2010, 01:20 PM

What the hell are you talking about?

See? This underlines it for me. You're oblivious. Disrespectful beyond belief. What the hell are you talking about? You asked me twice about your "Male Bikini" idea, test reducers, :rolleyes: yada yada. I answered you, so return the favor and answer this question:

Couldn't you have promoted the WP without making one comment about FBB?

"Hey, sports fans! It's Mr. Muscle, Steel, and Sex Appeal with a NEW Division to introduce to the IFBB Adventure! Women's Physique! You're going to love this! It's Figure plus Posing plus that Eighties feel. Nostalgia lovers take note We're going back to open-handed poses in this new division with an emphasis on a shape and finesse. No need for single-digit body fat in this division, ladies, so line up now and get ready to compete in the WP!"

Wouldn't that have been better?

Instead we got this: "Female Bodybuilding isn't worth a nickel. Those beasts can bodybuild all they want but the IFBB is not financing them. They're days are numbered for competition. Say good night! We're going to focus on a new division, pretty, feminine, proper, not too much muscle, and no hardness, too intimidating. Negative impact on ROI, no butts in the seats, sorry."

You really suck at rolling out a new division, Bob. You know that?

Raise your hand if you think Bob sucked big at this introduction. I should make a poll.

Curt James

11-21-2010, 01:31 PM

When one has a buisness...at what point do you discontinue a product line, or in the case of Physique Competition, a division, that is not profitable/self-sustaining?

A reasonable return for me would be running it at a loss, but I'm a fan and not a businessman.

To the bold faced bit, there's such a thing as a loss leader.

Wikipedia offers:

One use of a loss leader is to draw customers into a store where they are likely to buy other goods. The vendor expects that the typical customer will purchase other items at the same time as the loss leader and that the profit made on these items will be such that an overall profit is generated for the vendor.

Loss Lead describes the concept that an item offered for sale at a reduced price and is intended to lead to the subsequent sale of other items, the sales of which will be made in greater numbers, or greater profits, or both. It is offered at a price below its minimum profit margin—not necessarily below cost. The firm tries to maintain a current analysis of its accounts for both the loss lead and the associated items, so it can monitor how well the scheme is doing, as quickly as possible, thereby never suffering an overall net loss.

An example is a supermarket selling sugar or milk at less than cost to draw customers to that particular supermarket.

Marketing academics have shown that retailers should think of both the direct and indirect effect of substantial price promotions when evaluating their impact on profit.

Bob continues to hammer on ROI and profit and "butts in the seats" while alienating a large population of fans. He hasn't handled this well at all from my perspective. Not in the slightest. In fact, he's handled it incredibly badly. His behavior here, as IFBB Athletes Representative, reflects poorly on the federation, imo.

chick

11-21-2010, 01:55 PM

A reasonable return for me would be running it at a loss, but I'm a fan and not a businessman.

To the bold faced bit, there's such a thing as a loss leader.

Wikipedia offers:

One use of a loss leader is to draw customers into a store where they are likely to buy other goods. The vendor expects that the typical customer will purchase other items at the same time as the loss leader and that the profit made on these items will be such that an overall profit is generated for the vendor.

Loss Lead describes the concept that an item offered for sale at a reduced price and is intended to lead to the subsequent sale of other items, the sales of which will be made in greater numbers, or greater profits, or both. It is offered at a price below its minimum profit margin—not necessarily below cost. The firm tries to maintain a current analysis of its accounts for both the loss lead and the associated items, so it can monitor how well the scheme is doing, as quickly as possible, thereby never suffering an overall net loss.

An example is a supermarket selling sugar or milk at less than cost to draw customers to that particular supermarket.

Marketing academics have shown that retailers should think of both the direct and indirect effect of substantial price promotions when evaluating their impact on profit.

Bob continues to hammer on ROI and profit and "butts in the seats" while alienating a large population of fans. He hasn't handled this well at all from my perspective. Not in the slightest. In fact, he's handled it incredibly badly. His behavior here, as IFBB Athletes Representative, reflects poorly on the federation, imo.

Your opinion is skewed at best....I have no horse in this race, and look out for the best interests of all the athletes. You have to start looking at things with at least SOME notion of logic/ business if you wish to continue any sort of real debate.

Your problem is, you think you're speaking for the majority of the FBBers out there....you're not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. You're talking from the fan or schmo perspective...your reasons are selfish at best.

That said, just what"large population" of fans do you believe I've alienated? The ones who arent showing up at the shows? The ones that dont support FBB? If there was such a "Large base"...we wouldnt be having this conversation...you live in your own little world here on message boards and believe that YOUR opinion along with a handful (at best) of others that share your opinion, is some sort of REAL consensus....it's not.

The women themselves have said it best...with their actions. Cory retired, and was put off by the level it was getting to, same with Lenda, and then Kim, now Betty, Lisa A, and the host of others that have chosen NOT to continue on.....combine that with the fan/ sponsor/ magazine departures....and it's not exactly rocket science, is it?

The WPD offers everything that encompasses FBB, with the exception of the "freaky look", which cant help but have to be rewarded in a sport called bodybuilding....(which we know doesnt work.)

It offers women who like to train, compete, diet, cardio, challenge themselves, etc....the only thing it DOESNT offer....is schmo appeal. Not freaky enough for them.

WPD really is the same thing....without the male hormones.

Maybe its time you ask yourself if it's THEIR best interests you're looking out for...or YOURS?

chick

11-21-2010, 02:05 PM

MITM

11-21-2010, 02:34 PM

Your opinion is skewed at best....I have no horse in this race, and look out for the best interests of all the athletes. You have to start looking at things with at least SOME notion of logic/ business if you wish to continue any sort of real debate.

Your problem is, you think you're speaking for the majority of the FBBers out there....you're not. Not by any stretch of the imagination. You're talking from the fan or schmo perspective...your reasons are selfish at best.

That said, just what"large population" of fans do you believe I've alienated? The ones who arent showing up at the shows? The ones that dont support FBB? If there was such a "Large base"...we wouldnt be having this conversation...you live in your own little world here on message boards and believe that YOUR opinion along with a handful (at best) of others that share your opinion, is some sort of REAL consensus....it's not.

The women themselves have said it best...with their actions. Cory retired, and was put off by the level it was getting to, same with Lenda, and then Kim, now Betty, Lisa A, and the host of others that have chosen NOT to continue on.....combine that with the fan/ sponsor/ magazine departures....and it's not exactly rocket science, is it?

The WPD offers everything that encompasses FBB, with the exception of the "freaky look", which cant help but have to be rewarded in a sport called bodybuilding....(which we know doesnt work.)

It offers women who like to train, compete, diet, cardio, challenge themselves, etc....the only thing it DOESNT offer....is schmo appeal. Not freaky enough for them.

WPD really is the same thing....without the male hormones.

Maybe its time you ask yourself if it's THEIR best interests you're looking out for...or YOURS?

Bingo! Bingo! Bingo!

6K6X3Fb7vS8
I think this is where a lot of people are butting heads with you Bob. When you suggest that men that like FBB and defend their hard work and commitment must be either (1)out of touch fans, or (2) Schmoes, what you're doing -- even if you're suggesting that we might be the former as opposed to the latter, you're including us with people are more fetishists than actual fans of - and enthusiasts of - a sport.

Whether you're doing so consciously - or whether it's done so harmlessly - it casts those of us that defend Women Bodybuilders as deviants. I am not turned on my woman doing a front double bicep, I have never asked a woman to lift and carry me, and when I think of wrestling I think of John Cena battling it out with Triple H -- not be being pinned for #1, #2, #3 by a my gf with Mean Jean Oakerland doing the play by play with Lonnie Teper in the Skybox.

I think if you're faced with a valid argument from a FBB fan -- you could keep the reference to Schmoes out -- but that's just me.

I am sort of "out of the loop..."

What was the official reason for it being eliminated in the first place?

(I think that would add to the discussion...)

Mufasa

Yours is a good question, but you must understand that the Federation must seemingly want to stuff its coffers with $$$ because the proceeds from sponsorship monies would more than cover the renting of the hall, pay the prize money out, the insurance fees, and the advertising. The Judges are not paid correct? The athletes pay to compete as well. There are no 401k's, no medical plans, so can a Masters make enough? Yes. Does FBB make enough? Yes.

Problem is .. they want to GORGE themselves with money. How much of the sponsorship and ticket monies from the Olympia actually go to renting the hall, paying the prize money, and doing the advertising? Where does all the difference of the money go?

Hmm......

Curt James

11-21-2010, 03:01 PM

You're talking from the fan or schmo perspective...your reasons are selfish at best. (snip)

It offers women who like to train, compete, diet, cardio, challenge themselves, etc....the only thing it DOESNT offer....is schmo appeal. Not freaky enough for them.

WPD really is the same thing....without the male hormones.

Maybe its time you ask yourself if it's THEIR best interests you're looking out for...or YOURS?

Blah blah blah. Someone already pointed out to you that hormones run through all the divisions. WP will not be "without the male hormones." You even stated that the men have no problem getting sponsors when someone commented about AAS getting out of control in that division.

You don't care about health or aesthetics. All you see are dollar signs. Do you emcee for free? Staying overtime to emcee the women bodybuilders would be a poor ROI for you, right?

I have no problem with the WP. This is my favorite posing routine for a fbb by far.

wg_iTzQPuFk

Montemaggi was spectacular. If she's your vision for the WP then we agree 100%.

Where I disagree with you is your level, your outrageous level, of disrespect and idiocy when replying to the members of this "little world here on message boards," Bob. You should apologize to everyone you've called clueless, to the ladies you've called bestial, and to the federation for presenting yourself as an athletes representative yet holding no respect for even that .1% of its population.

Unprofessional, confrontational, and rude.

Again, you could have promoted the new division without making one negative comment regarding FBB. If it's going to survive then it will and if it's not then it won't however you as an IFBB rep or spokesperson making the comment that it's on its way out has an impact. A negative impact. And for that you should be ashamed of yourself.

That's from a man's perspective. Maybe you've had one two many leg scissors, Bob. Cut off the oxygen to your brain and you forget rule number one, never hit a woman. You've hit these women with some harsh negativity. You call it business, logic, reality. I call it inexcusable and unnecessary.

LOL...you are amusing, I'll give you that

I am. But I'll bet you're not laughing. ;)

pnohe

11-21-2010, 03:11 PM

yup...bring it back for sure!

MITM

11-21-2010, 04:57 PM

GHnXNbqLbBU

Right Bob? ;)

p.s.
They must have used can-applause at this year's Mr. O.
Sounds to me like a lot of people loved his physique - even though he placed last,
and something tells me -- just a hunch -- but those folks didn't get comped tickets,
I have this hunch they paid full price for their seats ;)

Now speaking of Audio-Acoustics, which I'm sure Bob is also an expert in .. you take an audience of say idk 5, 6, maybe 7,000 people -- to get that level of applause audibly, I'd think we're talking what, maybe 300, 400, or how many people would you say? :) lol

I love your physique Bob (no homo), but like Uncle Attila would say, you should leave what's popular or not to the marketing folks :)

Ryan Wacht

11-21-2010, 06:33 PM

MITM

11-21-2010, 06:47 PM

Sadly, youngblood's kidney's failed not too long after this show. That may have been why his conditioning was so off as he took last out of like 24 competitors.

It was sad hearing of him going, but he got up on that stage and he followed his dreams, and that makes him a hero to many - including to me :)

Again, please don't take this the wrong way b/c I'm not a hater and I do like Bob, but whether you're first or last, it's a hallmark achievement for a bodybuilder to get on that stage and hear the largest bodybuilding crowd in the world cheer you live with thousands more watching you on the web -- and in those days on ESPN & Fox Sports.

Here's the part where I don't want to sound like a hater, but Bob also finished somewhere in the back 15 and he was a champion bb'er with 2nd's at the N.O.C. & Sw Pro.

Don may not have been in the running for the Top 10, but his presence earned him the support of many fans, and bodybuilding should be a timeless sport -- But it's not -- because if you can train and live the life but are denied a stage to compete on -- it's not timeless at all. Right now you can train no matter how old you are, but I'd like to see a 47 or 48 yr old qualify for the Olympia in an open show -- the odds are 100:1.

It's really kind of sad when the amateur division could teach the pro division about being professional. The NPC allows masters to compete, teens to compete, NATURALS to compete, DISABLED to compete, WEIGHT CLASSES to compete, and in some shows COUPLES to compete. The NPC is OVERINCLUSIVE, whereas the IFBB is underinclusive. LIke those terms Bob, you can use them on PBW as your own. lol j/k

That "1" only accounts for phenoms like Vince Taylor, but we shouldn't tell the 45+ bodybuilders that:

"45+ Men of Bodybuilding...
You can train 6x a week, you can drink you Isolyze,
You can have but one cheat meal a week, and you can
Squat till you bleed, till you puke,
You can flex your quads, suck in your abs, and spread your wings,
But you cannot compete.

What will you do without applause?
What will you do many years from now sitting in the audience,
wishing that was you!

Will you compete?

Compete!"

that was my rendition of rallying the 45year olds to shout "AYYYY" as in the film Braveheart. I need to go train hamstrings and buy posterboards to put on my walls for law school finals. I'm no Bob Cicherillo, but if I study hard, I just pay pass ;) j/k

Cool Bob is cool.

chick

11-21-2010, 07:37 PM

It was sad hearing of him going, but he got up on that stage and he followed his dreams, and that makes him a hero to many - including to me :)

Again, please don't take this the wrong way b/c I'm not a hater and I do like Bob, but whether you're first or last, it's a hallmark achievement for a bodybuilder to get on that stage and hear the largest bodybuilding crowd in the world cheer you live with thousands more watching you on the web -- and in those days on ESPN & Fox Sports.

Here's the part where I don't want to sound like a hater, but Bob also finished somewhere in the back 15 and he was a champion bb'er with 2nd's at the N.O.C. & Sw Pro.

Don may not have been in the running for the Top 10, but his presence earned him the support of many fans, and bodybuilding should be a timeless sport -- But it's not -- because if you can train and live the life but are denied a stage to compete on -- it's not timeless at all. Right now you can train no matter how old you are, but I'd like to see a 47 or 48 yr old qualify for the Olympia in an open show -- the odds are 100:1.

It's really kind of sad when the amateur division could teach the pro division about being professional. The NPC allows masters to compete, teens to compete, NATURALS to compete, DISABLED to compete, WEIGHT CLASSES to compete, and in some shows COUPLES to compete. The NPC is OVERINCLUSIVE, whereas the IFBB is underinclusive. LIke those terms Bob, you can use them on PBW as your own. lol j/k

That "1" only accounts for phenoms like Vince Taylor, but we shouldn't tell the 45+ bodybuilders that:

"45+ Men of Bodybuilding...
You can train 6x a week, you can drink you Isolyze,
You can have but one cheat meal a week, and you can
Squat till you bleed, till you puke,
You can flex your quads, suck in your abs, and spread your wings,
But you cannot compete.

What will you do without applause?
What will you do many years from now sitting in the audience,
wishing that was you!

Will you compete?

Compete!"

that was my rendition of rallying the 45year olds to shout "AYYYY" as in the film Braveheart. I need to go train hamstrings and buy posterboards to put on my walls for law school finals. I'm no Bob Cicherillo, but if I study hard, I just pay pass ;) j/k

Cool Bob is cool.

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the IFBB (like any pro sport) is about being the best of the best...in the world. Not in a sub category, not in any other capacity other than the best competing to see who is best.

MITM

11-21-2010, 08:21 PM

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the IFBB (like any pro sport) is about being the best of the best...in the world. Not in a sub category, not in any other capacity other than the best competing to see who is best.

I love that you have that great sense of humor (no homo), and I totally agree with you that we're dealing with the best - but the best what? The best teens? adults? masters? There needs to be a level playing field for the athletes.

Question -- (1) Isn't it true that Professional Bodybuilders pay an annual fee to keep their Professional Cards current? If Masters-level/aged bb'ers also pay this fee, is it/shouldn't it be part of within your duties to ensure these men have the opportunity to compete under reasonable circumstances? Don't you owe these men a duty, equal to the duty you owe the guys idk 20-45? Just curious.

It was at an NPC show that you won the USA's - you were the best there and you moved up to the Open and did very well there as well. And your position would be a fine one -- were it not for the fact that YOU yourself competed at and your sole win at the pro level was, at a Masters level show.

Would you then be somehow suggesting that you won a show at a sub category, would that make you a sub-champion? I mean that's patently absurd. You won b/c you were the best of the athletes in your age-range and there's nothing sub par about that.

And while I have directly messaged:

Chris Aceto
Dave Palumbo
Aaron Singerman
& Jeff The Producer

to get a response from them, I realize they are very busy and I thank them for allowing me an opportunity to voice my opinion here -- but unlike others that may also be discussing FBB (which I love & support), I really believe the topic of the thread "Reinstating the Master Olympia" is a valid fan-based concern, and I simply cannot shut up about that the fact that Masters-level competition is by no means some charity field of competition.

I'm very grateful for your time and everyone else's as well, and I won't artifically keep this thread alive -- that's not how I roll ;) , but I take comfort in knowing that many of the folks that participate simply by stating "Bring it Back," are actually voicing an opinion that inspired this post.

I think we've reached a point where asking the Federation for a show is rather futile. Perhaps the proper course of business should be contacting the supplement companies which market to the older crowd (e.g. Xenadrine 40+) and imploring them to sponsor Masters level shows. Clearly if supplement companies are targeting Masters-aged bb'ers, they should sponsor Master-level shows.

chick

11-21-2010, 08:49 PM

I love that you have that great sense of humor (no homo), and I totally agree with you that we're dealing with the best - but the best what? The best teens? adults? masters? There needs to be a level playing field for the athletes.

Question -- (1) Isn't it true that Professional Bodybuilders pay an annual fee to keep their Professional Cards current? If Masters-level/aged bb'ers also pay this fee, is it/shouldn't it be part of within your duties to ensure these men have the opportunity to compete under reasonable circumstances? Don't you owe these men a duty, equal to the duty you owe the guys idk 20-45? Just curious.

It was at an NPC show that you won the USA's - you were the best there and you moved up to the Open and did very well there as well. And your position would be a fine one -- were it not for the fact that YOU yourself competed at and your sole win at the pro level was, at a Masters level show.

Would you then be somehow suggesting that you won a show at a sub category, would that make you a sub-champion? I mean that's patently absurd. You won b/c you were the best of the athletes in your age-range and there's nothing sub par about that.

And while I have directly messaged:

Chris Aceto
Dave Palumbo
Aaron Singerman
& Jeff The Producer

to get a response from them, I realize they are very busy and I thank them for allowing me an opportunity to voice my opinion here -- but unlike others that may also be discussing FBB (which I love & support), I really believe the topic of the thread "Reinstating the Master Olympia" is a valid fan-based concern, and I simply cannot shut up about that the fact that Masters-level competition is by no means some charity field of competition.

I'm very grateful for your time and everyone else's as well, and I won't artifically keep this thread alive -- that's not how I roll ;) , but I take comfort in knowing that many of the folks that participate simply by stating "Bring it Back," are actually voicing an opinion that inspired this post.

I think we've reached a point where asking the Federation for a show is rather futile. Perhaps the proper course of business should be contacting the supplement companies which market to the older crowd (e.g. Xenadrine 40+) and imploring them to sponsor Masters level shows. Clearly if supplement companies are targeting Masters-aged bb'ers, they should sponsor Master-level shows.

Bro....it IS a level playing field. You win a pro qualifier, you get to compete as a pro. Period.

Winning a "sub category" doesnt make you a "sub champion"....it makes you the Champ of that particular event....but it's not the OPEN.

It IS a sub category when there are restrictions....

Masters-age
novice-no wins

To answer your question: There are no restrictions with the Masters guys that want to compete in the pro's...pay your dues...compete in what you want.

BuffGuy

11-21-2010, 08:56 PM

If they bring Masters O back... Kevin LEvrone will win hands down! if he decides to compete! :)

MITM

11-21-2010, 09:34 PM

Bro....it IS a level playing field. You win a pro qualifier, you get to compete as a pro. Period.

Winning a "sub category" doesnt make you a "sub champion"....it makes you the Champ of that particular event....but it's not the OPEN.

It IS a sub category when there are restrictions....

Masters-age
novice-no wins

To answer your question: There are no restrictions with the Masters guys that want to compete in the pro's...pay your dues...compete in what you want.

But that's exactly what I said ;) And it wouldn't be a sub-category if that were the whole show -- like the Masters Pro World -- there was no "open," it was the MASTERS Pro World.

I mean it's not like they just came up with a show so you could win, lol. Who was the Masters Pro World winner at the show the year after your victory?

I mean all I'm saying is -- if they have the MPW's just call it the Master's Olympia. There's no Open Pro World, there's no IFBB Worlds -- or there wasn't then - and it's not a regularly held show, so just bring back the Masters Olympia to compliment the (Open) Olympia and the Olympia 202.

p.s.
& thanks to Bob Cicherillo for taking the time (no ass kissing), but it's like this is "Pile On Bob Time," it's just that the 40+ guys deserve at least one pro-level show all their own. Call it the Worlds or call it the Masters O -- but give them their top show and let them crown their top guy in the World.

Curt James

11-21-2010, 10:11 PM

chick

11-21-2010, 10:16 PM

So the 202 is your next target?

:no:

Being that I'm the one who proposed it....not likely

Dee

11-21-2010, 10:59 PM

Being that I'm the one who proposed it....not likely

technically thats a sub-category too, no? (the 202)

Nitro Fueled Barbie/Mel Marx

11-21-2010, 11:02 PM

I think that the master's O is a great venue.....

Curt James

11-21-2010, 11:47 PM

Being that I'm the one who proposed it....not likely

But everyone else is clueless, right?

Why denigrate the division by making a comment like this?

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the IFBB (like any pro sport) is about being the best of the best...in the world. Not in a sub category, not in any other capacity other than the best competing to see who is best.

:dunno:

MITM

11-22-2010, 09:34 AM

Being that I'm the one who proposed it....not likely

Interesting.

The 202 is not a sub-category because you proposed it.
The Masters level shows are a sub-category, but you didn't propose.

Weight: Good to go.
Age: Sub category.

Bob C. Approved: Valid
Bob C. UnApproved: Out of touch, unprofitable, waste of time.

So back to Uncle Attila's question.... when acting as Athlete's Rep., exactly how much of your own bias controls your final decision(s) and how much has to do with the best interests of the athletes? (in this case the 40+ guys).

;)

But everyone else is clueless, right?

Why denigrate the division by making a comment like this?

:dunno:

Just an observation... it wasn't a sub-category when he competed or the million times he's called himself the Masters Pro World or used that in conjunction for w/ his Mr. USA title as credentials. It was a great win, Bob look TERRIFIC, but the problem is Bob helped himself to a Masters O (replacement show - his own words on PBW/TFS) cake and once he ate it he tentatively resigned... now anyone else that's in the Masters age-range that wants to compete the Superbowl of Masters shows be it the MPW or the Master O can't b/c it's "sub category."

axioma

11-22-2010, 10:01 AM

I agree with Chick, the fans may appreciate a Masters O but it wouldn't be very marketable or draw much sponsor support. A great idea but not realistic. :no:

Yes, I will stand by the statement...as ridiculous as you think it is...the criteria for judging bikini speaks for itself..."untrained look"? Yes, I have seen women who look as good as Gonzales just taking Zumba...

Marketing? Well, that may be a case of shortsidedness...no, 40's and up guys tend to not read the hyperbole ridden muscle mags, however Bob should look at different avenues to market...AARP (hold the laughter) is marketable and broadening towards more fitness related ventures. Who is a 40+ more likely to look at endorsing a product: bikini chick or great 40+ physique?

axioma

11-22-2010, 10:04 AM

axioma

11-22-2010, 10:08 AM

I think that the master's O is a great venue.....

Yes, all about marketing. Seem like the focus is only in getting the kids to buy shit. Longevity is the real focus now...quality of life. You find the right guy...not torn biceps, distended belly, rode hard put away wet..but a good looking guy, face and body, to represent the ability to defy aging...you got a market.

MITM

11-22-2010, 10:17 AM

I still don't see this Chic dude representing the athletes interest. Just seem like a spokesperson for Weider enterprises...

But don't say Weider anything... because he/they'll use that to discredit your position. They'll say Weider what? I don't see any Weider checks?

In bodybuilding people still say "Weider" when they really mean AMI - it's not a major error, but you never want to come at a bureaucrat with any holes (no homo) in your story because they'll deflect the meat (no homo) of your question and use the time to school ya (thus wearing down your credibility before your peers - and - placing you in perfect range of their suck-ups to start biting at your ankles.) (As an aside, I am very proud that RxMuscle has few ankle-biter suck-ups [fans of the athlete that just say "you're right" or "hell yeah" w/o any opinion of substance - you find a lot of that another site's message board.)

Bob C. is definitely a bureaucrat, but not all bureaucrats are necessarily inept or untrustworthy. Because Bob no longer competes but represents competitors - he is now a suit (no different than Jim Manion or RS) -- but again, that's not a bad thing, merely an observation.

As far as your observation/question, I tend to agree. Thing is.. Bob is very proud of his achievements in the industry and this pride has seen him show all of us JUST HOW MUCH INFLUENCE he actually has over the Federation's decision to put on and/or discontinue certain shows in certain classes for certain ages - and possibly genders as well.

It's for this reason (I think) that Bob is taking so much heat. And what really irks me is that the only real bridge between the fans and the Federation bigwigs is him -- and if his bias accounts for more of a factor than our collective will, then we're all screwed.

p.s.
Who is the NPC Men's Athlete Rep? I need to find out who he is and buy him dinner (no homo). I have always wanted to go to an Olympia, but I think I'll instead go to a USA or North American -- the NPC looks more like the IFBB should than the IFBB does. ;)

axioma

11-22-2010, 10:26 AM

Doubt I register on the Chickometer...but your point is taken...retraction: AMI. I just worry about little bullshit...like fans in the pump up room, turning down the house lights when competitors are posing...

My only concern with the IFBB is that most people I know (who know nothing about bbing per se) could tell you who the previous Mr. South Carolina's and not even know who Jay Cutler is. Someone is not doing a very good job recognizing what is "marketable".

MITM

11-22-2010, 10:36 AM

74KSgQ8pgTw

Bob is not a bad guy -- I don't know him personally, but I know he's done as much as he can for the sport given his very limited means (e.g. not saying he's a dumbas$ here for folks, lol, what I mean by "limited means" is that you have to realize the IFBB never wanted a union and A.R. is like a halfway concession to that).

I'm sure Bob could get something done if he really wanted to, but he doesn't have the luxury of exerting all his influence on just one fan request. What little actual (as opposed to implied) pull he has - he needs to divy up amongst what he believes to be in the best interests of the guys that elected him to serve them.

My only gripe with Bob is -- I just wish he was a bit more open to our requests and stances on certain parts of the sport. And I know a lot of people get fumed when he makes certain comments about FBB or in this case calling the Masters a sub-category.

My ultimate goal is simple - I'd like to win Bob's favor, and hopefully recruit him as an advocate and/or a leading force to bring back Masters level shows and other issues on my agenda. Everyone has an agenda -- especially the fans. ;)

JoeB8962

11-22-2010, 11:00 AM

If we're talking marketable just look at the covers of AMI mag they don't put the so called superstars of todays Bodybuilding world on them very often...but the stars from yesterday and athletics from other sports.

All this talk about the women bodybuilders going overboard, we need to address the snakes head and not its tail.

chick

11-22-2010, 01:23 PM

Interesting.

The 202 is not a sub-category because you proposed it.
The Masters level shows are a sub-category, but you didn't propose.

Weight: Good to go.
Age: Sub category.

Bob C. Approved: Valid
Bob C. UnApproved: Out of touch, unprofitable, waste of time.

So back to Uncle Attila's question.... when acting as Athlete's Rep., exactly how much of your own bias controls your final decision(s) and how much has to do with the best interests of the athletes? (in this case the 40+ guys).

;)

Just an observation... it wasn't a sub-category when he competed or the million times he's called himself the Masters Pro World or used that in conjunction for w/ his Mr. USA title as credentials. It was a great win, Bob look TERRIFIC, but the problem is Bob helped himself to a Masters O (replacement show - his own words on PBW/TFS) cake and once he ate it he tentatively resigned... now anyone else that's in the Masters age-range that wants to compete the Superbowl of Masters shows be it the MPW or the Master O can't b/c it's "sub category."

The 202 is a sub caytegory as well....anything thats NOT the open, is a sub category...Its gotr nothing to do with who proposed it, etc...

Not quite sure what it is you're talking about....there is a Masters Pro world show being put on next Dec, in Miami Fla. ANY promoter can put on a Masters pro show (just like they did in the Atlantic City Pro for a few years...

Also not sure where you believe a sub category is somehow condescending...it's anything thats not the open, the TITLE is only won in the OPEN...just as someone winning their CLASS, is a sub category of the OPEN TITLE. Winning the middleweight USA, makes you a class winner....winning the OVERALL makes you the TITLE holder.

Nitro Fueled Barbie/Mel Marx

11-22-2010, 01:30 PM

yes, all about marketing. Seem like the focus is only in getting the kids to buy shit. Longevity is the real focus now...quality of life. You find the right guy...not torn biceps, distended belly, rode hard put away wet..but a good looking guy, face and body, to represent the ability to defy aging...you got a market.

i agree, there's a lot of people that actually look better as they age....and the maturity of muscle is defined.....

MITM

11-22-2010, 02:11 PM

The 202 is a sub caytegory as well....anything thats NOT the open, is a sub category...Its gotr nothing to do with who proposed it, etc...

Not quite sure what it is you're talking about....there is a Masters Pro world show being put on next Dec, in Miami Fla. ANY promoter can put on a Masters pro show (just like they did in the Atlantic City Pro for a few years...

Also not sure where you believe a sub category is somehow condescending...it's anything thats not the open, the TITLE is only won in the OPEN...just as someone winning their CLASS, is a sub category of the OPEN TITLE. Winning the middleweight USA, makes you a class winner....winning the OVERALL makes you the TITLE holder.

(1) So if there is someone putting on a Masters Pro World - Masters Bodybuilding is relevant and be profitable. So back to the point of this whole thread -- Why not REINSTATE THE MASTER OLYMPIA?

(2) It's not just to me... I don't know anyone that wouldn't think hearing you call a class a "SUB" Category as anything but condescending. I don't think you mean to make it sound offensive, it's just the wording could be better. "Sub" as a prefix usually doesn't bode well people...

Examples

Sub-par
Sub-human
Sub-standard

find somewhere "sub" is used as a prefix & it makes people smile. If you can, I will buy you an Isolyze RTD for Christmas :) lol

sassy69

11-22-2010, 02:55 PM

Gymdawg

11-22-2010, 03:49 PM

It would be great to see a masters O again...

MITM

11-22-2010, 03:57 PM

I haven't heard much about the people putting on that Masters World thing but they're putting up $240K or something to go with it. It sounds more like a one-time deal than a regular thing. And again, the money has to come from somewhere, and I still don't know that the guys you're thinking of - those who have been out of competition for years, are going to be interested in coming back.

Very solid point, but whoever competes -- if they are IFBB Professionals they are going to bring their 'A Game' to the stage, and supplement companies will have guys in tip top shape to show guys in their 40's, 50's, 60's, and beyond ... that they should be buying supplements, gym memberships, and doing shows. It's a whole demographic of people -- people that have the $$$ and the time, and could really benefit.

One great example is Ray Temprano (http://strengthaddicts.blogspot.com/2010/08/bodybuilder-ray-temprano-shares.html) (60yrs old. and not only does he compete at the Nat'l level, but he takes time to talk to the fans. I can tell you of at least five guys his story has reached in my gym alone).

People need role models, and I don't know if a 52yr old is going to look up to a 23yr old and say -- "I wanna look like that." But I do know that if he's even looking at a bodybuilding forum and sees Ray -- he'll first be stunned that the guy is OLDER than him and looks like that.

Anyways, your point is well taken Sassy, but my issue is that we all need heroes and that goes for the Masters too. There is money - the show Bob won made money - and the show next December will make money. FBB makes money. Natural bodybuilding makes money.

Question is -- how much money does it take to make greedy people get their fill?

It would be great to see a masters O again...

You, my friend, are in the neglected majority -- I'd say Silent Majority -- but we're hardly being quiet here. lol

sassy69

11-22-2010, 03:59 PM

Very solid point, but whoever competes -- if they are IFBB Professionals they are going to bring their 'A Game' to the stage, and supplement companies will have guys in tip top shape to show guys in their 40's, 50's, 60's, and beyond ... that they should be buying supplements, gym memberships, and doing shows. It's a whole demographic of people -- people that have the $$$ and the time, and could really benefit.

One great example is Ray Temprano (http://strengthaddicts.blogspot.com/2010/08/bodybuilder-ray-temprano-shares.html) (60yrs old. and not only does he compete at the Nat'l level, but he takes time to talk to the fans. I can tell you of at least five guys his story has reached in my gym alone).

People need role models, and I don't know if a 52yr old is going to look up to a 23yr old and say -- "I wanna look like that." But I do know that if he's even looking at a bodybuilding forum and sees Ray -- he'll first be stunned that the guy is OLDER than him and looks like that.

Anyways, your point is well taken Sassy, but my issue is that we all need heroes and that goes for the Masters too. There is money - the show Bob won made money - and the show next December will make money. FBB makes money. Natural bodybuilding makes money.

Question is -- how much money does it take to make greedy people get their fill?

You, my friend, are in the neglected majority -- I'd say Silent Majority -- but we're hardly being quiet here. lol

I guess that's exactly the point - if these guys are several years retired, it might take a whole shitload of money to make it worth their while to get back on the juice, turn off their lives for a couple of months and hope everything still works the way it used to.

MITM

11-22-2010, 04:05 PM

I guess that's exactly the point - if these guys are several years retired, it might take a whole shitload of money to make it worth their while to get back on the juice, turn off their lives for a couple of months and hope everything still works the way it used to.

True. But then take the 202 -- I mean that literally gave soooo many guys that had written off any chance to compete against the mass monsters once they turned pro an opportunity to get on that stage, fight for a title, and secure a fanbase. I mean in any other situation, a guy like Flex Lewis isn't going to try his luck against a guy like Jay Cutler or Markus Ruhl... could you imagine? I do concede that big prize money is definitely a factor, but perhaps even more important than that would be longevity -- knowing this wasn't a one-time stint.

Guys like Cormier (who had that freak accident basically end his career), guys like Flex Wheeler and Don Long that maybe can't take sauce b/c of health issues -- and may not even need it at the Masters level, guys like Ronnie Coleman that may still have something to prove but not against the young bucks like Phil Heath, and even guys from wayyy back in the day like Rich Gaspari or Lee Labrada that might just do it for one last hoorah and to be models for their own products... they might do it too... Plus it would be a great way for Nat'l champs that have just turned pro like VG and JF to have a shot at getting a Pro Win ;)

$$$ is key, but so is longevity. The Masters O had a good 10yr, I mean it was a real show -- and unlike the N.O.C. which the IFBB does not own the rights to, it would be nice to see M.O. comeback :)

chick

11-22-2010, 04:13 PM

(1) So if there is someone putting on a Masters Pro World - Masters Bodybuilding is relevant and be profitable. So back to the point of this whole thread -- Why not REINSTATE THE MASTER OLYMPIA?

(2) It's not just to me... I don't know anyone that wouldn't think hearing you call a class a "SUB" Category as anything but condescending. I don't think you mean to make it sound offensive, it's just the wording could be better. "Sub" as a prefix usually doesn't bode well people...

Examples

Sub-par
Sub-human
Sub-standard

find somewhere "sub" is used as a prefix & it makes people smile. If you can, I will buy you an Isolyze RTD for Christmas :) lol

LOL...allright

Substancial
Submarine sandwich

To the point, just because a show is put on, doesnt automatically make it profiable. Jan Tana ran the Masters O for years...to a loss. Steve W had the Masters WC that I won....and lost money, which is why he never rn it again..

I understand what you're saying, and appreciate the compliments....but financially, it's very difficult to justify.

chick

11-22-2010, 04:17 PM

I guess that's exactly the point - if these guys are several years retired, it might take a whole shitload of money to make it worth their while to get back on the juice, turn off their lives for a couple of months and hope everything still works the way it used to.

Exactly right...most guys that are "retired" masters pro eligable are in a different place in their lives, and have "been there and done that"....money isnt really the incentive as it would take more money to prepare than the payout would cover in most cases.

Other point is that most guys arent going to look like they want to, or like the fans remember them by...so they're reluctant to step on stage with nothing to prove. It's not like attending a HOF baseball gathering with youir favorite ball players from the past....no one is asking them to step in the batters box.

I'd much rather see the guys meet and greet, signing autographs, etc...

MITM

11-22-2010, 04:29 PM

LOL...allright

Substancial
Submarine sandwich

To the point, just because a show is put on, doesnt automatically make it profiable. Jan Tana ran the Masters O for years...to a loss. Steve W had the Masters WC that I won....and lost money, which is why he never rn it again..

I understand what you're saying, and appreciate the compliments....but financially, it's very difficult to justify.

No Fair! No Fair! You can't come here and talk about sandwiches when most of us are on the keto diet. This is an absolute outrage, lol. I think Bob should be forced to dress like a scrub for a week (this would seriously counter his keen fashion sense) (no homo). I love saying "no homo," it sounds so stupid.

Chick's Point

Then if people are losing money it's on them. The athletes brought great physiques - you, Claude, Pavol, Rusty. I mean the bodybuilders can entertain with great muscle and posing... but the promoters need to promote.

Many promoters don't print bills anymore, posters are out, many don't make good use of Facebook ads, site banner, they don't offer supplement companies choice tabling and/or publicity, they don't go beyond renting out high school auditoriums and maybe looking into better values with more curbside appeal, they don't have red carpets (like this last show Dave & Aaron covered), they don't take the time to make press releases, do giveaways... marketing-wise they just put everything on the atheletes and best of all -- most of them give crappy prize money and pocket the rest.

The athelete's responsibility is bringing quality muscle, good posing, and supporters (a few tickets here or there), but they're not promoters.

MITM

11-22-2010, 04:45 PM

p.p.s.

http://christianduque.com/sitebuilder/images/958_1450-434x259.jpg

I'm a very happy camper today :) That pb protein was quite delicious :yep:

joe293

11-22-2010, 05:40 PM

I think the last one was in 2006 or close to that. I can't believe they ended it. I always looked forward to the Masters Olympia !!!

MITM

11-23-2010, 12:30 AM

Michael Raimondo posted this link on another thread: http://jarkasgym.com/ifbb for the upcoming Masters Pro World show Dec. 2011.

Again, I think the collective will of the people is that we want the Masters O back, so hopefully the powers that be will give this thread at least a look ;)

Thanks to everyone that participated, and thanks to Bob Cicherillo ;)

p.s.
Is there anyone you'd like to see be a Masters Mr. O at some point? For me... I'd love to see either Flex Wheeler or Nasser --- two guys that both were so close to a Sandow they could taste it ;)

sassy69

11-23-2010, 03:41 AM

Exactly right...most guys that are "retired" masters pro eligable are in a different place in their lives, and have "been there and done that"....money isnt really the incentive as it would take more money to prepare than the payout would cover in most cases.

Other point is that most guys arent going to look like they want to, or like the fans remember them by...so they're reluctant to step on stage with nothing to prove. It's not like attending a HOF baseball gathering with youir favorite ball players from the past....no one is asking them to step in the batters box.

I'd much rather see the guys meet and greet, signing autographs, etc...

This.

One of the coolest things I've ever experienced was meeting Ed Corney after moving out to the Bay Area. Classiest guy I've ever seen autographing stuff. Its great to see the legends like Frank Zane, Dorian walking around at shows (w/ his man bag). Even seeing Louie is cool -- even if he is the most expensive autograph I've ever spent money on.

There's something kinda tragic about seeing someone try to come back after they've been out of it a while w/ the intention of being out of it. It just isn't the same as the heyday and the memories are what stand out, and then getting the chance to actually meet these guys & gals. You don't even see as many of the older competitors at the O or the A any more, so its like a brush w/ fame when you do.

The only thing that could top seeing them & getting an autograph is if there was a setup where they were sitting around and just telling stories.

MITM

11-23-2010, 09:34 AM

This.

One of the coolest things I've ever experienced was meeting Ed Corney after moving out to the Bay Area. Classiest guy I've ever seen autographing stuff. Its great to see the legends like Frank Zane, Dorian walking around at shows (w/ his man bag). Even seeing Louie is cool -- even if he is the most expensive autograph I've ever spent money on.

There's something kinda tragic about seeing someone try to come back after they've been out of it a while w/ the intention of being out of it. It just isn't the same as the heyday and the memories are what stand out, and then getting the chance to actually meet these guys & gals. You don't even see as many of the older competitors at the O or the A any more, so its like a brush w/ fame when you do.

The only thing that could top seeing them & getting an autograph is if there was a setup where they were sitting around and just telling stories.

It's never the same. Puppy love in high school is cute because you're convinced you've found someone and that you'll be together forever with. You fall in love as an adult and you're convinced you've found someone and that you'll be together forever. It's love at different ages, different parts of your life but if it's true neither is more real or valid than the other.

Maybe Lou battling for the Olympia in '75 looked or sounded or acted differently than massively larger Lou fighting for the Masters Olympia in 1994 -- but life is all about change. The same way we change, our idols change, but to those of us that grew up looking up to them, they're still our heroes.

Whenever I see Nikki Sixx or Ace Frehley, I'm fourteen years old again wishing I was either of them, doing tricks on stage, and being taken over by the concerts. Whenever I see Ronnie Coleman, first think that comes to is Jay waiting for a handshake and Coleman dropping to his knees in a "Oh Yeah Lordy we did it again," kinda way. :)

Our heroes then can be our heroes now - just in a different context.
I would love to the guys that are being considered for retirement at the pro level today -- have the opportunity to compete for another 10-15yrs (if they so choose) in a forum in which they not only wouldn't embarrassing themselves or harming their legacies -- and in fact may even adds more wins to their record and more money to their name. :) :) :)

MITM

11-23-2010, 09:43 AM

Sorry for all the horrible type-o's. I just woke up and wrote the last post with laptop resting on my chest and with morning-eyes' visibility. I am currently still writing this way, albeit more carefully.

And I had every intention of moving onto to another thread but as usual Sassy made a great point that I wanted to address ;)

sassy69

11-23-2010, 01:07 PM

Just practically speaking, for Ace Frehley to get on stage, for the most part he just needs to be reasonably sober and have the concert venues set up. For competition, it means dragging an old ass body back into the gym for half a year, juicing up again, hoping your kidneys aren't goign to shut down from the shock of it all. IMO the effort it takes to go after this, and also knowing that its NOT the Olympia, its probably just no the same. In other words, it sounds great to have this show for the fans, but who of the "masters" would actually be interested in going out for it?

MITM

11-23-2010, 01:30 PM

All valid points, but the guys that would be goin for it would prolly be the exception to the rule - guys with stronger kidneys and guys that stay in shape year round. Milos stays in shape year-round and he always looks to be a week away from showtime -- and the guy hasn't competed in like 150yrs, lol j/k

XQLVyIfimok

Other guys - that aren't juicing but look absolutely amazing (like Frank Zane) could do the show naturally. What does he have to prove? It would be strictly for the fans and to just keep having a bonus to looking like this year-round. I think the juice factor is an issue, but with guys that have so much history in the winner's circle as pro's back in the day, a Masters O could be a toned down (in terms of drugs) kinda show for older legends to interact with their fans, make a few bucks, and see the camera flashes blinding them while the posing oil gunks up their pores and the stage lights make them perspire profusely -- and I think many would be delighted to do it :)

Also, part of the exception -- George Burns smoked cigars and lived to 101 or something.

hifrommike65

11-24-2010, 07:09 AM

MITM

11-24-2010, 09:57 AM

I would like to know how many pro shows actually make money. Other than the few big extravaganzas like the Arnold & Olympia, where most people attending don't even go to the contests, I doubt many of them do. God knows the vast majority of the pro competitors don't make a dime from them, but hope that the exposure can help their careers in one way or another. If making money were the main purpose of the pro shows, I doubt we'd be seeing more than three or four a year. & a lot of pro shows are now piggybacking onto amateur national qualifiers. The prize money is piss poor even if you're in the top three, usually the only placings that pay something. So how expensive can it be to run it in such a format? & why is it that the only time there's much talk about how unprofitable the pro shows are is when the masters pros are being discussed? The bottom line is the sponsors don't want to put up money for older competitors. They want young sexy women for their products, hence the proliferation of figure & bikini, & the collapse of masters men's pro shows.

You make some very valid points, very valid points. There's so many industries that don't make money but yet the investors still get driven around in limos, live in penthouse suites, and eat the best foods -- e.g. the airline industry. "Not making money" is a great way to deflect having a real argument because unless IRS performs an audit, you could even have the promoters tax info for the year and still not concretely know how much of a benefit he/she derived from the production.

Funny thing is... we don't even have their actual numbers, we have an Athelete's Rep whose word we have to take in good faith that he actually is savvy on the numbers and inner-workings of the event production. You know how the major magazines disclose their circulation (newstand & subsription sales) each year or so -- the promoters never do this what they make on shows -- if someone please enlighten me.

IT WOULD SEEM you are correct, that only the Arnold & Olympia make any real money --- but that would mean we have a lot funloving men and women out there that care more about the sport than putting money in their own pocket. If this were the 1960's and everyone was smoking dope and having free love -- I JUST MIGHT BELIEVE THAT, but sadly in 2010 -- I don't.

There is money to be made, but it comes down to politics and expendible groups. It's real travesty that the Masters, Naturals, and the FBB are expendible -- they really are just as good as the Open Men's Pro division, but they have marginalized for so long, that today no one make a major issue when they're excluded. Like that Ft. Lauderdale show that pulled out all the stops -- where was Female Bodybuilding? A show that was marketed as being conceived and operated by WOMEN screwed over WOMEN (female bodybuilders).

South Florida is home to Ms. Int'l Yaxeni Oriquen-Garcia & Ms. Olympia Runner-up Betty Viana Adkins -- in fact they both live about an hour away in Miami Beach. Usually it's sexist men that exclude the FBB, but here you have women doing it too - it's because the powers that be have so marginalized the class, that now anyone can exclude them and no one is really up in arms about it, because they've made as to where all they have to say is: FBB doesn't make any money -- or even better -- there is no interest there.

ty_MA0jldnA

In closing: Masters bodybuilding would make money if they marketed it right. I mean look at Claude Groulx after winning the Masters Olympia -- and trying to get a sponsor. He looked great, but few would sign him. How many supplement companies are rushing to sign FBB? At least Muscletech is signing Naturals and Jim Cordova is getting the same if not more coverage than some of the iFBB guys. Times need to change.

Bring back the Masters Olympia.

(sorry the type-o's, I hate not proofreading but I just woke ;) )