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heavyiron
11-25-2010, 12:29 PM
1,4,6 Androstatriene-dione (ATD)

Characteristics

ATD is a steroidal aromatase inhibitor, known as a suicidal inhibitor because it permanently binds to the aromatase enzyme.

ATD is used for its aromatase inhibiting and testosterone boosting effect. Its effectiveness at lowering estrogen appears to be stronger than 6-oxo. It converts to 1,4,6-testosterone, which would also be expected to cause falsely high readings for a testosterone analysis.

The 1,4,6-testosterone metabolite of ATD can also bind to the androgen receptor (AR) and induce androgenic (or possibly anti-androgenic) effects similar to what is seen from 6-oxo. This would be expected since 1,4,6-testosterone has about one third the binding affinity for the AR, therefore it may interefere with the anabolic or androgenic action of hormones which bind the androgen receptor.

ATD would also be expected to interfere with production of natural testosterone by acting upon the hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis (HPTA), therefore this compound should not be used during post cycle therapy (PCT), however it could successfully be used during a cycle to help keep estrogen in control. Anecdotal reports and animal studies have also shown ATD inhibits libido and general sexual potency.

References

Effect of an inhibitor of aromatization, 1,4,6 androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) on LH release and steroid binding in hypothalamus of adult female rats.

Exp Brain Res. 1986;64(3):407-10.
Slama A, Gogan F, Sarrieau A, Vial M, Rostene W, Kordon C.

Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis.
ME Kaplan and MY McGinnis
Horm Behav, Mar 1989; 23(1): 10-26.

Anabolic Pharmacology
Seth Roberts (2009)

By Jason Rowland

http://www.primordialperformance.com/images/molecules/1_4_6_androstatriene_dione.gif
Chemical Name(s):

Androsta-1,4,6-triene-3,17-dione
1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione
Chemical Formula: C19H22O2
Molecular Weight: 282
CAS: NA
Q Qatio: NA
Anabolic #: NA
Androgenic #: NA
Oral Bioavailability: Estimated at 4%
AR Binding Affinity: NA
SHBG Binding Affinity: NA
Half Life: 2 days
Legal Status (US): Not listed as a controlled substance
Average Dose: 25-100mg/day
Average Cycle Length: 4-8 weeks

http://www.ironmaglabs.com/e-control-anti-estrogen.php (http://www.ironmaglabs.com/e-control-anti-estrogen.php)

heavyiron
11-25-2010, 02:23 PM
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. (http://javascript<b></b>:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'J Clin Endocrinol Metab.');) 1984 Dec;59(6):1088-96.

Inhibition of aromatization stimulates luteinizing hormone and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys.

Ellinwood WE (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/pubmed?term=%22Ellinwood%20WE%22%5BAuthor%5D), Hess DL (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/pubmed?term=%22Hess%20DL%22%5BAuthor%5D), Roselli CE (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/pubmed?term=%22Roselli%20CE%22%5BAuthor%5D), Spies HG (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/pubmed?term=%22Spies%20HG%22%5BAuthor%5D), Resko JA (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/pubmed?term=%22Resko%20JA%22%5BAuthor%5D).

Abstract

Experiments were conducted to examine the role of aromatization in the control of LH and testosterone secretion in adult male rhesus monkeys. Treatment of male monkeys (n = 7) with sc Silastic packets containing the aromatase inhibitor 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) resulted in 1.5- to 3-fold elevations in serum LH and testosterone concentrations in six of seven animals. Concurrent treatment of ATD-treated monkeys with small quantities of estradiol-17 beta (n = 4) abolished the stimulatory effect of ATD. During ATD treatment, peripheral estradiol levels were reduced by 30% and hypothalamic aromatase activity, as determined in vitro, was reduced 80-90%. The lack of androgenic or antiandrogenic activity of ATD was demonstrated by its inactivity in either a mouse seminal vesicle bioassay or a highly sensitive penile spine bioassay. Furthermore, ATD did not react with rat prostatic or hypothalamic cytosol androgen receptors. 1,4,6-Androstatriene-17-ol-3-one, a possible metabolite of ATD in vivo, did react with prostatic and hypothalamic androgen receptors, but possessed no antiandrogenic activity in either bioassay. Thus, treatment of adult males with an aromatase inhibitor that inhibits both peripheral and central aromatization, and which has no apparent antiandrogenic activity, results in stimulation of LH and testosterone secretion. These data demonstrate that aromatization of androgens to estrogens plays an important role in negative feedback regulation of LH secretion and maintenance of normal testosterone levels in adult male primates.


PMID: 6541658 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

shorty9
11-25-2010, 04:21 PM
"Anecdotal reports and animal studies have also shown ATD inhibits libido and general sexual potency."

Definately good to know. Used Gaspari's novadex for a short time during last cycle-which I believe is ATD if I remember right. Think I even had people telling me that it was no good to use on cycle and was strictly a pct compound- but obviously that must have been a fair amt of bro-science speaking. I definately had issues with libido during last cycle(400mg cyp/wk for 14wks) but that may have also had something to do with the PH cycle I was doing before starting test- no pct or recover inbetween. just 3-4wks of ph, libido ect crashed, test arrived and started that while running ph for another 2wks or so. libido came back up some back up some but not to where expected. Maybe atd contributed some. Idk.

But as always, awesome info bro. Really like that you've been outlining info on some some of the otc compounds, and other stuff thats not typically included. ie ATD, dimethazine... most places dont have much info on these types of compounds, and hard to trust much of anything a company manufacturing a product containing the compound puts out there.

cheers, shorty

adpolice
11-25-2010, 05:34 PM
Great info heavyiron.Personally i've used novedex xt several times to control estrogen and it worked great.In my opinion a great compound for cutting,but when it comes to muscle gains it is counterproductive since it has a negative affect on gh and igf1.I also think this is the reason ATD got a bad rep from many users,because they used it as test booster to gain mass where it has not place as a compound...Thanks again for the knowledge you provide to this site

HammerStrength12
11-25-2010, 05:52 PM
Good shit. We needed a sticky on ATD.

heavyiron
11-25-2010, 07:34 PM
"Anecdotal reports and animal studies have also shown ATD inhibits libido and general sexual potency."

Definately good to know. Used Gaspari's novadex for a short time during last cycle-which I believe is ATD if I remember right. Think I even had people telling me that it was no good to use on cycle and was strictly a pct compound- but obviously that must have been a fair amt of bro-science speaking. I definately had issues with libido during last cycle(400mg cyp/wk for 14wks) but that may have also had something to do with the PH cycle I was doing before starting test- no pct or recover inbetween. just 3-4wks of ph, libido ect crashed, test arrived and started that while running ph for another 2wks or so. libido came back up some back up some but not to where expected. Maybe atd contributed some. Idk.

But as always, awesome info bro. Really like that you've been outlining info on some some of the otc compounds, and other stuff thats not typically included. ie ATD, dimethazine... most places dont have much info on these types of compounds, and hard to trust much of anything a company manufacturing a product containing the compound puts out there.

cheers, shorty
Either high OR low E2 will cause libido issues. The key is to dial in your aromatase inhibitor dose in order to control estradiol and not crush it. My guess is the guys using ATD that had libido issues may have taken too high a dose or too frequent a dose. I would use the lowest recommended dose and then get labs while on an aromatizing aas like testosterone. Keeping estradiol between 15-30pg/ml would be ideal for libido. Additionally the ratio of E2 to Free T seems to drive libido. Basically we want to see high free T and controlled E2 on cycle.

I started seriously studying OTC steroids and ancillaries just in the last few months. Mostly because of the potential for legal issues with steroids and all the recent busts. I have also really enjoyed some of the science and history with these compounds. Many are quite potent and do what we need to achieve our goals.

Thank you for the kind words!

HammerStrength12
11-25-2010, 10:28 PM
Ran it as a solo cycle a year back. Crushed my e2. Bloodwork came back around 11pg/mL. I was also taking 4 caps a day which is pretty high.

I didn't see much as far as strength or size gains, but it did do what it claimed it did - reduce aromatization and increase testosterone.

shorty9
11-26-2010, 09:14 PM
Either high OR low E2 will cause libido issues. The key is to dial in your aromatase inhibitor dose in order to control estradiol and not crush it. My guess is the guys using ATD that had libido issues may have taken too high a dose or too frequent a dose. I would use the lowest recommended dose and then get labs while on an aromatizing aas like testosterone. Keeping estradiol between 15-30pg/ml would be ideal for libido. Additionally the ratio of E2 to Free T seems to drive libido. Basically we want to see high free T and controlled E2 on cycle.

I started seriously studying OTC steroids and ancillaries just in the last few months. Mostly because of the potential for legal issues with steroids and all the recent busts. I have also really enjoyed some of the science and history with these compounds. Many are quite potent and do what we need to achieve our goals.

Thank you for the kind words!


I think neglecting having male hormone panel done was definately part of my problem. In the past never have had any issues, so probably wasnt quite as careful as I should have been. Those days are over, and in the next few wks plan on starting 5th cycle.

will be running: test e @600mg/wk for 12wks
deca @ 250mg/wk for 10wks
dimeth upfront @ 30-45mg/day for 3-4wks.

I will test your hypothesis, as I plan to get blood wk done prior to starting, at the 6wk mark, and after pct-which will be a 1st for me. Ive only had labs drawn once in the past and it was after 2nd ph cycle. Ill report back with pre-and 6wk labs and will see if can get E2 dialed in so that have no more libido issues!! (it was hard to explain to gf that even though Im 25 and everything wks, I still had little interest in grabbing her and throwing her over my shoulder and marching to the bedroom......)

Again, thanks for the help and the info. (also should do a write up on superdrol/clone when you have some extra time. Strength off that compound is amazing,but would like to know more-just my 2cents.)

cheers, shorty

heavyiron
11-26-2010, 09:14 PM
Ran it as a solo cycle a year back. Crushed my e2. Bloodwork came back around 11pg/mL. I was also taking 4 caps a day which is pretty high.

I didn't see much as far as strength or size gains, but it did do what it claimed it did - reduce aromatization and increase testosterone.
Yup, 11pg/ml E2 is low for libido. I imagine your ATD dose was a bit high.

Were you on aromatizing compounds at the time?

HammerStrength12
11-26-2010, 09:46 PM
Yup, 11pg/ml E2 is low for libido. I imagine your ATD dose was a bit high.

Were you on aromatizing compounds at the time?


Just ran it solo.

I used ATD a couple months ago while on 400mg of cyp a week. E2 was a little on the high side prior to the cycle, but I never ran into any estrogen related side effects while on.

adpolice
05-01-2011, 12:07 PM
Would ATD intefere with a strong anabolic like tren at the AR?