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View Full Version : Clenbuterol is well-tolerated in cronic heart-failure patients.



Dr Pangloss
03-22-2009, 10:31 AM
The following is a clinical study on administration of clenbuterol to chronic heart failure patients versus placebo controls. Geuss what? Its well-tolerated by both controls and heart-failure patients....

I will have a look at the specifics of the study at work, such as dose, measurements, etc..

1: J Heart Lung Transplant. (http://javascript<b></b>:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'J Heart Lung Transplant.');) 2008 Apr;27(4):457-61.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corehtml/query/egifs/http:--linkinghub.elsevier.com-ihub-images-PubMedLink.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3048&itool=AbstractPlus-def&uid=18374884&db=pubmed&url=http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1053-2498(08)00041-7) Links (http://javascript<b></b>:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu18374884);)

Comment in: J Heart Lung Transplant. 2008 Aug;27(8):934-5. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18656813?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus)C lenbuterol increases lean muscle mass but not endurance in patients with chronic heart failure.

Kamalakkannan G (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Kamalakkannan%20G%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Petrilli CM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Petrilli%20CM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), George I (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22George%20I%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), LaManca J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22LaManca%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), McLaughlin BT (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22McLaughlin%20BT%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Shane E (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Shane%20E%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Mancini DM (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Mancini%20DM%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Maybaum S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Maybaum%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
Division of Cardiology, Department of Medicine, Montefiore Medical Center, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, New York, USA.
Clenbuterol, a beta(2)-agonist with potent anabolic properties, has been shown to improve skeletal muscle function in healthy subjects, and in high doses, promotes cardiac recovery in patients with left ventricular assist devices. In a small, randomized controlled study, we investigated the effect of clenbuterol on skeletal muscle function, cardiac function, and exercise capacity in patients with chronic heart failure. Clenbuterol was well tolerated and led to a significant increase in both lean mass and the lean/fat ratio. Maximal strength increased significantly with both clenbuterol (27%) and placebo (14%); however, endurance and exercise duration decreased after clenbuterol. Prior data support combining exercise training with clenbuterol to maximize performance, and on-going studies will evaluate this approach.

Dr Pangloss
03-22-2009, 10:34 AM
notice that the study measures effects on heart function with clenbuterol.

TPT
03-22-2009, 12:18 PM
interesting. i can't pull up the full text for the specs but, curious to read of the possible indications for clenbuterol for cardiac patients. hard to imagine post cardiac sugery patients being prescribed clen. however, the outcomes measures appear facinating. well, i'll be waiting for details.

Dr Pangloss
03-22-2009, 01:26 PM
Yeah. it seems strange, but my only point with this study is that clenbuterol administered in clinical studies at normal doses and even in unhealth patients does not appear to cause problems with heart function.

This is, of course, does not prove that under all conditions and dosages clenbuterol is safe, nor for all administration protocols and lengths.

TPT
03-22-2009, 07:49 PM
Yeah. it seems strange, but my only point with this study is that clenbuterol administered in clinical studies at normal doses and even in unhealth patients does not appear to cause problems with heart function.

This is, of course, does not prove that under all conditions and dosages clenbuterol is safe, nor for all administration protocols and lengths.


can't tell but, low dosages and short lenghts were probably used. especially considering patients with chronic heart failure usually have a history of ischaemic heart disease and hypertension. and we already know of the typical cns and cardiac sides of clen including nausea, sweating, hypertension, etc. however, your iteration of the possible "safetyness" of clen was well taken since subjects were not even healthy.

Dr Pangloss
03-23-2009, 06:32 PM
40 micrograms first week, thereafter 80 micrograms per day for 12 weeks straight.

two clen patients had asymptomatic tachycardia, one placebo had intermittent ventricular tachycardia.

No arrythmias. No heart problems. decreased mean arterial pressure.


All in all it was deamed safe and effective for skeletal muscle growth.


By the way, there are litterally tens of trials of clen for various purposes, from asthma to wasting to heart failure treated with an implant and clenbuterol. None reported heart problems in the abstract anyway.

SonOfPluto
03-24-2009, 04:14 AM
Does clen raise cortisol levels in the same fashion as ephedrine does?

Dr Pangloss
03-24-2009, 06:51 AM
Does clen raise cortisol levels in the same fashion as ephedrine does?


i believe it does raise cort levels. But if i recall, it's not as bad as ephedrine. I'd have to check for sure.

Yolo
03-24-2009, 11:19 AM
Pardon the noob question, but what exactly is the mechanism by which clen acts? Are the results solely due to the increase in oxygen?

Thanks

Dr Pangloss
03-24-2009, 06:14 PM
Pardon the noob question, but what exactly is the mechanism by which clen acts? Are the results solely due to the increase in oxygen?

Thanks

i'n not sure what you mean by increase in oxygen. Clen acts by amping up cyclic AMP and thermogenesis. It also stimulates a pathway in common with igf receptors. This may be the way it increases muscle mass.

Yolo
03-24-2009, 06:59 PM
i'n not sure what you mean by increase in oxygen. Clen acts by amping up cyclic AMP and thermogenesis. It also stimulates a pathway in common with igf receptors. This may be the way it increases muscle mass.
Thanks. I was under the impression that clen was originally meant as a bronchodilator :
"CLENBUTEROL, A b2-AGONIST, is a potent selective bronchodilator
that initially was used as a drug to treat bronchospasm
and to alleviate the symptoms of chronic
obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) in the horse" which led me to believe that the alleged benefits (at least those regarding thermogenesis) might be the result of better oxygen delivery. Again, thanks for the reply


http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/91/5/2064

Dr Pangloss
03-24-2009, 07:06 PM
yeah. it's an asthma med. But the improvement in lung function is not related to the fat loss or the muscle gaining. Clen actually seems to reduce muscular endurance with chronic treatment and without the requisite cardio work.

TPT
03-24-2009, 07:59 PM
40 micrograms first week, thereafter 80 micrograms per day for 12 weeks straight.

two clen patients had asymptomatic tachycardia, one placebo had intermittent ventricular tachycardia.

No arrythmias. No heart problems. decreased mean arterial pressure.


All in all it was deamed safe and effective for skeletal muscle growth.


By the way, there are litterally tens of trials of clen for various purposes, from asthma to wasting to heart failure treated with an implant and clenbuterol. None reported heart problems in the abstract anyway.


yeah those seem to be conservative dosages. no way upper levels towards 180-200 mcg would be used. the anabolic effects are much more facinating since we know much less of this and it's utility as a bronchodilater is overt.

TPT
03-24-2009, 08:02 PM
watch out for that meat we import. animals are on clen for their "leaning" and "toning" effects. lol. i actually prefer my pork with more fatty tissue than muscle.

Dr Pangloss
03-24-2009, 08:07 PM
i didn't post it, but there is a clinical trial with heart failure patients wherein they use 2 mg of clen ed. I dont' know what the duration was. I'd have to check, but that's an insane dose...

Yolo
03-25-2009, 07:42 AM
yeah. it's an asthma med. But the improvement in lung function is not related to the fat loss or the muscle gaining. Clen actually seems to reduce muscular endurance with chronic treatment and without the requisite cardio work.


Gotcha, Thanks:D

apex23
03-25-2009, 11:44 PM
I believe clen might be catabolic at high dosages. I could be wrong!!!

Dr Pangloss
03-26-2009, 06:50 AM
I believe clen might be catabolic at high dosages. I could be wrong!!!



I believe it does elevate cortisol at high doses, so you're probably right...