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Swede
01-25-2011, 10:33 AM
Have there been any other Big Ifbb pro that has gotten kids after retiring or during the competitiv years?

We all know Coleman. but coleman is coleman lol. Anyone besides that?

And what about fbb's? Is it harsher for them? Anyone know any fbb's that has had kids during competitive years of after?

Swede
01-25-2011, 10:35 AM
Anyone here that juices hard that gets their sperm count checked out regurarly? :)

Dave? Did you during the time you were huge?

And Im not talking about your average juicer.. But ifbb level dosages for Years.

Ibarramedia
01-25-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm sure there are many FBBs who had kids during or after their competitive years. Kim Chizevsky, Tonya Knight, Angela Salvagno, Debi Laszewski are a few that come to mind.

MattyH7688
01-25-2011, 10:40 AM
Flex Wheeler, Erik Fankhouser had another kid too, and I know Troy Alves is a grandfather lol.. I am sure there are a lot more with kids, I just can't think of a ton off my the top of my head.

Swede
01-25-2011, 10:41 AM
I'm sure there are many FBBs who had kids during or after their competitive years. Kim Chizevsky, Tonya Knight, Angela Salvagno, Debi Laszewski are a few that come to mind.

how the fuck do you know all of that? lol.

Some of them looks pretty damn big so maby its not allt hat horrible afterall

Swede
01-25-2011, 10:42 AM
Flex Wheeler, Erik Fankhouser had another kid too, and I know Troy Alves is a grandfather lol.. I am sure there are a lot more with kids, I just can't think of a ton off my the top of my head.


Fankhouser is on to little juice to be a canidate. He actually comes across as caring about his health.

Branch, etc

Provo82
01-25-2011, 10:47 AM
Shawn Ray has kids. Lee Haney i believe has kids. Edson Prado has kids. Jason Arntz just had a daughter.

Swede
01-25-2011, 10:49 AM
Shawn Ray has kids. Lee Haney i believe has kids. Edson Prado has kids. Jason Arntz just had a daughter.


shawn got kids after retiring right?

I dont see lee haney as a crazy abuser either.

Swede
01-25-2011, 10:51 AM
maby its not that dangerous afterall then lol.

alpmaster
01-25-2011, 10:54 AM
Yeah it comes off as they're not able to, but also the mentality of a bodybuilder and the entire 24/7 things as a bodybuilder is extremely selfish, no time for babies and they want to be the babies.

Swede
01-25-2011, 10:56 AM
Yeah it comes off as they're not able to, but also the mentality of a bodybuilder and the entire 24/7 things as a bodybuilder is extremely selfish, no time for babies and they want to be the babies.


thats not dennis wolf

alpmaster
01-25-2011, 11:41 AM
Yea and doubt Jay will ever have a kid

UriahMcGee
01-25-2011, 12:09 PM
I know Johnnie Jackson had a kid a year ago, Gustavo has kids as well

Steve56
01-25-2011, 12:15 PM
i think King Kamali has a daughter

Natzo
01-25-2011, 01:01 PM
i think King Kamali has a daughter

yup Princess kamali.

Gunners
01-25-2011, 01:14 PM
Dorian has a kid i think?

Youngguns
01-25-2011, 01:19 PM
Arnold... Schwartz...

Swede
01-25-2011, 01:21 PM
Dorian has a kid i think?


WAsn't that before he got Huge? I think his kid is around 22

Swede
01-25-2011, 01:22 PM
Arnold... Schwartz...


not the dosages im talking about =)

back then genetics actually mattered

eggwhite
01-25-2011, 01:25 PM
Sergio, and Bev Francis, Haney for sure as well.

Provo82
01-25-2011, 02:00 PM
shawn got kids after retiring right?

I dont see lee haney as a crazy abuser either.

i believe it was after retiring but i could be mistaken. yea lee haney probably not nearly on the doses these guys today are good point

Provo82
01-25-2011, 02:01 PM
i think King Kamali has a daughter

Steve loving the avatar showing off the freaky forearms i told u there nice lol!

300lbmonster
01-25-2011, 02:06 PM
There are a lot of pros with kids your only talking about the top guys. Did you ever think the guys at the top are more concerned with career than kids? Maybe thats why they don't have kids so they can be at the top.
Not to mention just because you think its important to have kids I'm pretty sure these guys no the risks they're taking. So obviously its something they know and are dealing with.

JacksonRose
01-25-2011, 02:07 PM
Honestly, most have kids. Many have kids in gap years of competing. HCG does wonderous things to Leydig's cells. You will also notice many are not bald too. Really fertility is a highly genetic trait. Yes while you are on the high dosages of tests you aren't producing live ones. But get off the test, on some HCG, and then it's almost like back to normal. Many of the people who coudln't couldn't of had children anyway.

Provo82
01-25-2011, 03:01 PM
when i asked my md about this cuz he was discussing the possibility of putting me on hrt he aalmost laughed with my concern of not being able to have kids. i dont entirely trust him that its that easy but i guess theres something to be said for it

Reno
01-25-2011, 03:04 PM
Gunther had a kid a year or so ago.

matei
01-25-2011, 03:40 PM
Yeah, but Gunther isn't in the shape he used to be some time ago. Probably, he is off for a while.

Swede
01-25-2011, 04:19 PM
There are a lot of pros with kids your only talking about the top guys. Did you ever think the guys at the top are more concerned with career than kids? Maybe thats why they don't have kids so they can be at the top.
Not to mention just because you think its important to have kids I'm pretty sure these guys no the risks they're taking. So obviously its something they know and are dealing with.


Calm down. Just a discussion.

JAM
01-25-2011, 04:24 PM
Didn't Markus Ruhl say him and Simone where having a kid awhile ago?

tammyp
01-25-2011, 04:30 PM
i remember susie curry was pregnant when she won the fitness O or the arnold....she found out right after. kim chivitsky had a baby after she was ms O. after you come off your hormone levels are normal, dont see why you couldnt. im sure many men have gotten a girl pregnant while on cycle.

HammerStrength12
01-25-2011, 04:35 PM
after you come off your hormone levels are normal,

That's rarely ever the case.

Plus there are so many artificial methods the medical community has developed to increase fertility. I would be hard pressed to believe that any of these guys w/ kids had normal fsh levels. That just doesn't happen when you abuse AAS they way those guys do. Their own endocrine systems are certainly not stimulating sperm production.

ManimalPatB
01-25-2011, 04:40 PM
King Kamali just had a new son...I think not even a month ago

tammyp
01-25-2011, 04:44 PM
That's rarely ever the case.

Plus there are so many artificial methods the medical community has developed to increase fertility. I would be hard pressed to believe that any of these guys w/ kids had normal fsh levels. That just doesn't happen when you abuse AAS they way those guys do. Their own endocrine systems are certainly not stimulating sperm production.

i am refering to women...idk about the men.

HammerStrength12
01-25-2011, 04:45 PM
i am refering to women...idk about the men.

i see

brooklyn wolf02
01-25-2011, 04:51 PM
JAY CUTLER said that his wife was pregnant in 2005 and thougt he would retire after 2005 olympia!and when he signed with MD in the first interview SHAWN asked him does he want to addopt a child...

300lbmonster
01-25-2011, 04:52 PM
Calm down. Just a discussion.

I didn't know I was worked up.

caribeman
01-25-2011, 05:09 PM
Dennis Wolf has a daughter, Dorian has a boy I beleive...

Jeffsygo
01-25-2011, 05:49 PM
Swede very interesting topic, it would make sense that certain drugs over long periods of time could make you sterile. I know that’s not what everyone likes to hear though, seems like people aren't realistic of the risks involved in the sport sometimes.

neofarq
01-25-2011, 06:12 PM
LOL @ all Kamali's kids, I think he was artificially inseminated and they grew in his belly

mikemn230
01-25-2011, 06:20 PM
Why not just get sperm frozen after being off for a while or before you start?

Does not cost that much, and makes a good backup plan if you cannot get the boys going again later and are better off on TRT.

jnickels
01-25-2011, 06:24 PM
Maybe all them froze the knuckle-children prior to jumping on the hardcore bandwagon, decided they wanted a kid, thawed it, filled a syringe (we know they all have them on hand) and got their ladies the artificial way! Yeah i know that's stupid....but seriously, I wonder if any of them really did freeze specimen prior to their heavy cycling just in case??

jnickels
01-25-2011, 06:27 PM
Why not just get sperm frozen after being off for a while or before you start?

Does not cost that much, and makes a good backup plan if you cannot get the boys going again later and are better off on TRT.

I can't believe that just happened....kinda creepy!

alpmaster
01-25-2011, 09:15 PM
not the dosages im talking about =)

back then genetics actually mattered

100mg of Deca is enough to shutdown sperm production, dosage doesn't matter too much. Just mostly about coming off and getting laid. Even if on, the tri-stack of HCG/HMG/Clomid can get pretty much anyone pumping out some swimmers.

FitnFirm
01-25-2011, 09:24 PM
How does one " gotten kids " LOL@ Swede :D

thachozenonebx
01-25-2011, 09:33 PM
How does one " gotten kids " LOL@ Swede :D

LOL at that..i was thinking the same thing, how does one GET a kid...at a store? or maybe the stork

Ibarramedia
01-26-2011, 12:07 AM
Paula Bircumshaw also had a kid. Bev Francis has a few kids. Several figure competiors have had kids within the past 2 years. Can't name them at the top of my head. Ann Caliri had a kid, theresa hendricks is a Grandma. Michelle Ivers has a kid and she has been lifting for over 30 years, competing at least 25 or more.....

criticalbench
01-26-2011, 12:14 AM
Why not just get sperm frozen after being off for a while or before you start?

Does not cost that much, and makes a good backup plan if you cannot get the boys going again later and are better off on TRT.


Thats actually a really good idea; something I have thought about a lot and considering.

Mike

Ibarramedia
01-26-2011, 12:34 AM
How much is it to continually keep frozen sperm in a sperm bank per month?

HammerStrength12
01-26-2011, 01:46 AM
Just curious, does anyone know if any of these people have any of these people have kids with autism, mental retardation or other birth defects? Curious to see whether the the theory that AAS can lead to these things holds in the real world.

Ibarramedia
01-26-2011, 01:48 AM
Denise Hoshor and Jackie Paisley also have kids.

Ibarramedia
01-26-2011, 01:49 AM
Just curious, does anyone know if any of these people have any of these people have kids with autism, mental retardation or other birth defects? Curious to see whether the the theory that AAS can lead to these things holds in the real world.


I don't know about that. And I really don't know if having used would have a correlation to that or not. :dunno: I just don't have info.

HammerStrength12
01-26-2011, 02:12 AM
I don't know about that. And I really don't know if having used would have a correlation to that or not. :dunno: I just don't have info.

Well, with pretty much any unresolved medical issue there's plenty evidence on both sides. This one is no exception. Which is why I'm curious to see.

Anyone who tells you emphatically that it does or does not lead to birth defects is full of it.

vapor1
01-26-2011, 05:49 AM
Fred smalls just had a kid and competed 2009-2010 also Tricky Jackson just had a kid as well does anyone know how long it will take to get a decent sperm count after being off gear and doing a full pct cycle

is there anyone on here that can speak from experience

Johnny Bravo
01-26-2011, 06:49 AM
Wasn't there something about Coleman getting someone pregnant a few years back?

Swede
01-26-2011, 07:47 AM
Paula Bircumshaw also had a kid. Bev Francis has a few kids. Several figure competiors have had kids within the past 2 years. Can't name them at the top of my head. Ann Caliri had a kid, theresa hendricks is a Grandma. Michelle Ivers has a kid and she has been lifting for over 30 years, competing at least 25 or more.....


Figure competitiors?

Kinda missing my point..

Swede
01-26-2011, 07:48 AM
Just curious, does anyone know if any of these people have any of these people have kids with autism, mental retardation or other birth defects? Curious to see whether the the theory that AAS can lead to these things holds in the real world.


Vic martinez kid I think. Or kidS?

not saying it has anything to do with aas though.

Provo82
01-26-2011, 09:02 AM
Why not just get sperm frozen after being off for a while or before you start?

Does not cost that much, and makes a good backup plan if you cannot get the boys going again later and are better off on TRT.

MDS anabolic doc preaches this daily. i guess in theory its not a bad practice for those who want to play it safe.

Provo82
01-26-2011, 09:07 AM
Well, with pretty much any unresolved medical issue there's plenty evidence on both sides. This one is no exception. Which is why I'm curious to see.

Anyone who tells you emphatically that it does or does not lead to birth defects is full of it.

very good point thats what some people dont seem to get with medical issues its not ever a clear cut black and white answer it is most always gray!

Provo82
01-26-2011, 09:08 AM
I also knew a guy at my gym who got his wife knocked up with twins while on 1.5 g of eq and never used hcg before! and then knew another guy however who used moderate stuff and had been off for 6 months and couldnt get his wife pregnant. once again nothings black and white with medical stuff especially fertility.

Ibarramedia
01-26-2011, 10:45 AM
Figure competitiors?

Kinda missing my point..

No. FBB.

Jer
01-26-2011, 11:15 AM
Fred smalls just had a kid and competed 2009-2010 also Tricky Jackson just had a kid as well does anyone know how long it will take to get a decent sperm count after being off gear and doing a full pct cycle

is there anyone on here that can speak from experience
The thing is, it's gonna come down to the individual. There is no clear cut answer.


I also knew a guy at my gym who got his wife knocked up with twins while on 1.5 g of eq and never used hcg before! and then knew another guy however who used moderate stuff and had been off for 6 months and couldnt get his wife pregnant. once again nothings black and white with medical stuff especially fertility.
Exactly.

This may not pertain to aas use, but more of a fertility basis, but I have a friend that spend 3+ years trying to concive a child. They spent thousands on in-vitro and fertility doctors. They told them that they would never be able to have children on their own. In-vitro didn't even work. Months later, they found out she was pregnant, through natural conception.
On the other side, my wife and I concived a child within 6 weeks of trying.

We also have friends who have three kids under 3. They sleep in the same bed and she gets pregnant.


Basically what I'm getting at is, it's an individual thing. Doctors can say it's because of drug use, but maybe it was an issue before you even stepped foot in a gym.

Jer
01-26-2011, 11:17 AM
Sorry for taking your thread slightly off course Swede.


I know guys that don't use that have a very hard time, I know guys that have used very little that have had a hard time and I know guys that have been on grams of shit for a year that have gotten their girlfriends pregnant.

HammerStrength12
01-26-2011, 12:53 PM
Vic martinez kid I think. Or kidS?

not saying it has anything to do with aas though.

I think that's really the issue here, not whether they can have kids or not. With modern medicine, there are so many artificial ways of conception. YES, bodybuilders who abuse AAS can have kids, but are they are doing it with hormonal assistance, not the "natural" way.

The issue IMO is does AAS abuse and artificial conception lead to higher rates of birth defects? I don't know the answer to that, but there seems to be evidence that it is the case.

HammerStrength12
01-26-2011, 12:54 PM
Vic martinez kid I think. Or kidS?

not saying it has anything to do with aas though.

I just read that Jackie Paisley (thread about her in Muscle Central) has a kid with special needs.

Ibarramedia
01-26-2011, 01:02 PM
Denise Hoshor, Sonya McFarland, Marianna Komlos,Robin Hillis have kids.

2manytoyz
01-26-2011, 01:25 PM
Well looks what Brooke Hogan looks like..... j/k

kenkbj@comcast.net
01-26-2011, 01:34 PM
Don't forget Victor has a couple, think Dex has one, also new pro Fred Smalls has like 4. Think his wife just gave birth to their 4th last month. My training partner who is white keeps telling me its cause were are black guys, lol. Go figure.

Ibarramedia
01-26-2011, 01:45 PM
Well looks what Brooke Hogan looks like..... j/k


Brooke looks good.

Jer
01-26-2011, 05:33 PM
The issue IMO is does AAS abuse and artificial conception lead to higher rates of birth defects? I don't know the answer to that, but there seems to be evidence that it is the case.


I just read that Jackie Paisley (thread about her in Muscle Central) has a kid with special needs.

Where is the evidence/correlation of aas causing this?

(legit question)

HeavyDutyGuy
01-26-2011, 05:44 PM
What would be the amount of AAS where this would become an issue-
I woudl imagine not 3 DBols a day and some test... On the on other hand I could see some of the pro stacks I have heard about causing a problem..

HammerStrength12
01-26-2011, 05:52 PM
Where is the evidence/correlation of aas causing this?

(legit question)

All the evidence I've seen is anecdotal. Don't know of any studies done on this.

Massfreak2063
01-26-2011, 07:34 PM
I don't see how/why it would cause higher birth defects....I do know however, if I ever have one of those i'm getting rid of it one way or another.
and freezing sperm is not as cheap as you would think....you do have to pay monthly to keep them frozen as well as a relatively high initial fee.

Big_P
01-26-2011, 10:31 PM
I do know however, if I ever have one of those i'm getting rid of it one way or another.e.


wow, I am actually speechless... you sir are a nut job.

Massfreak2063
01-26-2011, 11:21 PM
wow, I am actually speechless... you sir are a nut job.

I would expect nothing less from my parents had I been born fucked

Ibarramedia
01-26-2011, 11:27 PM
In the early 20th century Eugenics was practiced in the US and it fell out of favor when it was associated with Nazi Germany....

Massfreak2063
01-26-2011, 11:32 PM
In the early 20th century Eugenics was practiced in the US and it fell out of favor when it was associated with Nazi Germany....

Just because the Nazis did something doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make it a wrong idea...most of their ideas yes...
but having retard kids that can never be anything but a burden not only to their parents but in all likelihood to society (aka your tax dollars) live? Where the hell would the logic be there? I would much rather take my chances with these afterlife things and start over if I were stuck like that, can't fathom anyone that wouldn't.

JacksonRose
01-27-2011, 12:20 AM
Just because the Nazis did something doesn't AUTOMATICALLY make it a wrong idea...most of their ideas yes...
but having retard kids that can never be anything but a burden not only to their parents but in all likelihood to society (aka your tax dollars) live? Where the hell would the logic be there? I would much rather take my chances with these afterlife things and start over if I were stuck like that, can't fathom anyone that wouldn't.

I can't understand why anyone would think any different.

I for one would want to eliminate the possibilities of down's syndrome, multiple sclerosis and would definately select suppression of the Myostatin producing gene

Ibarramedia
01-27-2011, 12:55 AM
Here is a more thorough explanation of Eugenics:


Eugenics is the "applied science (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Applied_science) or the biosocial movement (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Social_movement) which advocates the use of practices aimed at improving the genetic composition of a population (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Population_genetics)," usually referring to human populations.[2] (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/#cite_note-1) The word has almost as many meanings as there are discussions of the subject. Eugenics was widely popular in the early decades of the 20th century,[3] (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/#cite_note-Lynn2001-2) but has fallen into disfavor after having become associated with Nazi Germany (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Nazi_Germany) and with the discovery of molecular evolution (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Molecular_evolution)[citation needed (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]. Since the postwar (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/World_War_II) period, both the public and the scientific communities have associated eugenics with Nazi (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Nazism) abuses, such as enforced racial hygiene (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Racial_hygiene), human experimentation (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation), and the extermination (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Genocide) of "undesired" population groups. However, developments in genetic (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Genetic_engineering), genomic (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Genetic_testing), and reproductive technologies (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Human_cloning) at the end of the 20th century have raised many new questions and concerns about the meaning of eugenics and its ethical and moral status in the modern era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics



It also deals with racial purity, extermination of undesired popualtion groups and yes that includes mentally challenged people. Here is a psoter of their propaganda:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/EnthanasiePropaganda.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/12/EnthanasiePropaganda.jpg)

Nazi propaganda for their compulsory "euthanasia" program (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/T-4_Euthanasia_Program): "This person suffering from hereditary defects costs the community 60,000 Reichsmark (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/German_Reichsmark) during his lifetime. Fellow German, that is your money, too."

During the 1930s and 1940s, the Nazi regime forcibly sterilized hundreds of thousands of people whom they viewed as mentally and physically unfit, an estimated 400,000 between 1934 and 1937. The scale of the Nazi program prompted one American eugenics advocate to seek an expansion of their program, with one complaining that "the Germans are beating us at our own game".[106] (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/#cite_note-105)
The Nazis went further, however, killing tens of thousands of the institutionalized disabled through compulsory "euthanasia (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Euthanasia)" programs such as Aktion T4 (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Aktion_T4).[107] (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/#cite_note-106) The methods of murder (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Murder) developed in the euthanasia policy led directly to their widespread use in concentration camps (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Concentration_camps) and extermination camps (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Extermination_camps), especially the use of carbon monoxide (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Carbon_monoxide) followed by hydrogen cyanide (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide) in Zyklon B (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/wiki/Zyklon_B).


After reading the entire link, would you guys still be an advocate for eugenics given that it is not politically correct today.

Massfreak2063
01-27-2011, 08:15 AM
who cares about political correctness? And I aside from killing those that are already adults I have no problem with it. I know personally I would not want to live like that and they in many cases don't even have the brain or control of their bodies to take their own lives, In my opinion it is the only merciful thing to do if you end up with one as a parent.

Ymir
01-27-2011, 08:30 PM
testosterone does not make everyone infertile, a spermcycle is 70 days, I have many friends who got their gf's and wives pregnant during cycle, some of them cycling for a long time.

and testosterone does not shut down your spermproduction on everyone and is not effective as birth control in men, testosterne was a candidate for birth control aid for the male but the infertility rate was to low to be accepted by researchers.

now reserarch for a male birth control aid is researched and candidates are MENT and DMN.

so yea chances are that if you get infertile during cycle and you dont recover you were going to get infertile anyway.

So guys who use AAS dont let your spouse off the pill thinking you are "safe"

holyintellect
01-27-2011, 09:26 PM
Porter Cottrell, my best friend, and winner of 5 pro shows, has a beautiful 2 year old son.

Curt James
01-27-2011, 11:56 PM
All the evidence I've seen is anecdotal. Don't know of any studies done on this.

All the more reason to legalize AAS, so that studies can be conducted.


Wasn't there something about Coleman getting someone pregnant a few years back?

You should REALLY post more often.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_1nLdNGnrAes/TUJMEFfuWqI/AAAAAAAACks/6jCJO-PgZKM/Johnny-Bravo-avatar.JPG :drool:

:yep: