Need Master's input

[caribeman]

I posted this else where but wanted to get the Master's input.

Very strange thing has been happeining to 1 of my 2 w/o buddies. Here is the background:
Body 1 53 y/o was 250 pounds (fat) and and adjusted food intake to about 1500 calories a day (lowered carbs as well as fats and increased Protein). w/o is 5 days a week of 1/2 cardio upon waking and 1/2 cardio in the afternoon (dunno heart rate but enough to sweat). Has lost + 50 pounds in 8 months, he's currently 197 pounds.

Body 2 45 y/o was 193 pounds (more muscular) but wanted to cut. Adjusted food intake to about the same 1500 calories (high protein, moderate carbs, low fat). w/o is 5 days a week cardio/lifting. After 3 months he's at 189! So he's dropped 4 pounds in 3 months although his food intake has dropped a lot from what it used to be.

You can certainly see a difference on buddy 1 body's change but barely anything on buddy 2 as far as size change. He pretty much remains the same.

I know both these guys and diets are clean and consitent. Buddy 2 lost over 40 pounds years ago but he accomplished this by having a caloric intake of 300-500 calories a day + heavy long cardio 5 times a week.

What's your poinion on Buddy 2 and his inability to lose?

[cook]

It`s hard for me to believe anyone could eat 1500 cals. a day and only lose 4lbs. in 3 months.Is it possible he was loading up late at night?

[caribeman]

I've asked the same thing (have you been eating other food and not accounting for it?) I've known this guy for a long time and trust what he says and he says no. I would think the average person consuming 1500 cals a day, working out and doing cardio will lose more than 4 pounds in 3 months.

But the one thing that makes me think is that he lost the most by intaking 300-500 cals per day lifting and heavy cardio. He went from about the same he is now to 146 pounds (which to me was way too much, to the point he looked sick)....

[axioma]

2nd guy had less to lose, if he was more muscular to begin with. He was closer to his maintenance caloric intake, so less dramatic.

1st guy lost water, fat..the whole shabang. He was at a deficeit.

[caribeman]

2nd guy had less to lose, if he was more muscular to begin with. He was closer to his maintenance caloric intake, so less dramatic.

1st guy lost water, fat..the whole shabang. He was at a deficeit.

I've also looked at this angle and it makes sense. Guy 1 was fat and as soon as he put his mind to it and began working out the changes were seen almost on a bi-weekly basis.

So that leads me to believe that guy 2 would have to go to a higher extreme (even less than 1500 calories) and with longer time to see any actual changes not just on the scale but on his body as well.

[freebirdmac]

I think you have low-balled the cals to a point that you have stalled out their metabolisms. I will lose 1 pound a week at 1500 cals. These guys should not be that low. I see this with women all the time. They get on these 1200/day diets and then get frustrated as they stop going anywhere. When finally convinced to eat more to lose and they up the cals... bingo! There is a period of time where bloating occurs due to the extra carbs, but it subsides. Usually in a couple of weeks. For those who have been low-balling it for too long we suggest raising cals 100/week. For these guys I'd do at least 200/week.

[axioma]

Not exactly...if the guy has a decent body comp, then the changes might reflect some muscle loss if he goes into too great a caloric deficeit. He would have to pay more attention to macros than just calories. JMO>

[axioma]

I think you have low-balled the cals to a point that you have stalled out their metabolisms. I will lose 1 pound a week at 1500 cals. These guys should not be that low. I see this with women all the time. They get on these 1200/day diets and then get frustrated as they stop going anywhere. When finally convinced to eat more to lose and they up the cals... bingo! There is a period of time where bloating occurs due to the extra carbs, but it subsides. Usually in a couple of weeks. For those who have been low-balling it for too long we suggest raising cals 100/week. For these guys I'd do at least 200/week.
^^^
What she said....

[HeavyDutyGuy]

If you are pretty lean- you aren't going to lose much- according to the scale. Some old timers such as Viator and Mentzer would often diet on 1000 calories and Ferrigno sometimes went down to 1500- and he was 265 lbs ripped! So body 2 was probably a similiar case.

[caribeman]

I think you have low-balled the cals to a point that you have stalled out their metabolisms. I will lose 1 pound a week at 1500 cals. These guys should not be that low. I see this with women all the time. They get on these 1200/day diets and then get frustrated as they stop going anywhere. When finally convinced to eat more to lose and they up the cals... bingo! There is a period of time where bloating occurs due to the extra carbs, but it subsides. Usually in a couple of weeks. For those who have been low-balling it for too long we suggest raising cals 100/week. For these guys I'd do at least 200/week.


Actually I havent done anything for them (well maybe the fat dude who never w/o and needed some guidance) but this other guy is handling things on his own. But I do recognize what you're saying and will bring this up. Perhaps its time for him to review his macros and adjust.

[caribeman]

If you are pretty lean- you aren't going to lose much- according to the scale. Some old timers such as Viator and Mentzer would often diet on 1000 calories and Ferrigno sometimes went down to 1500- and he was 265 lbs ripped! So body 2 was probably a similiar case.

For what he said, you could be right. Like I mentioned before this guy lost over 40 pds years ago by adding hard cardio and lowering his calorie intake way low.

[caribeman]

i do appreciate all the input and knowledge.

[AnglicanBeachParty]

I think you have low-balled the cals to a point that you have stalled out their metabolisms. I will lose 1 pound a week at 1500 cals. These guys should not be that low.

This.

[Mac]

What freebirdmac said. Calories are too low, metabolism stalled, stress hormones increased.

[caribeman]

Ha ha he's gonna crap when I tell him to eat more :). I dont think he's had a refeed since he got off the juice. Another thing is that I feel he's guiding himself way too much by what the scale says...

[HeavyDutyGuy]

Ha ha he's gonna crap when I tell him to eat more :). I dont think he's had a refeed since he got off the juice. Another thing is that I feel he's guiding himself way too much by what the scale says...
All of the above!

[HeavyDutyGuy]

I wrote this a while back, just edited a bit and was just published on Examiner.com! Have him read it. Maybe it will help him. http://www.examiner.com/body-building-in-phoenix/weight-training-and-total-fitness

[KevinCouch]

^^^^^^^^
What Ax, Freebird, Mac, Heavyduty Said.