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cmeis90
02-12-2011, 05:42 PM
Seems as the only time I don't retain water is when I'm getting to the end of a cut. I've never used any AAS yet as I'm only 20 but whenever I eat to bulk or even at maintenance for that matter my abdomen swells. It is hard and I can see my abs but it looks like a gut, sticks out, and is sometimes uncomfortable.

I have tried high carb, medium carb, and low carb and I seem to bloat all the same. Could be a digestion issue I suppose, but every 2-3 hours I am usually hungry and ready for my next meal.

I know AAS use can cause bloat like this and the famous "GH gut" people complain about the pros having, but I'm natural at around 180 at 5'9'' and seem to exhibit those exact symptoms.

Anybody have any experience with this or suggestions on how to alleviate it? Diet, supps, heck I might even consider something like arimidex if it would help.

Mac
02-12-2011, 05:51 PM
Could it be constipation?

cmeis90
02-12-2011, 06:03 PM
I don't think so- no problems in that area lol

sassy69
02-12-2011, 06:28 PM
Particularly if you're doing an ultra-clean cut, some things can just irritate your digestion. An example is if you're eating a lot of broccoli - we don't have an enzyme to break down a particular sugar in certain veggies like broccoli, kale, etc. Therefore you just start to get kinda gassy and can't clear out. To this end, consider including Digestive Enzymes or Papaya Enzymes to help digest.

You may also have a food allergy, e.g. gluten / wheat, or lactose. Here you can fix the issue w/ diet by avoiding wheat-based foods and stick w/ gluten-free carb sources.

And just generally if you get an upset stomach, e.g. from protein shakes, you can use ginger root to help settle your stomach. We used it in emergencies when I used to work scuba charters in S. Florida. If someone forgot to take their motion sickness pills an hour before getting on the boat, they were outta luck - but ginger root works pretty quickly. Same idea as the fresh ginger that comes w/ sushi.

If you are water retentive - first I'll just comment on the fact that if you're at that part of a cut where you've dumped a lot of bodyfat from around your midsection, you might be looking at what appears to water retention but is just the skin that hasn't tightend up yet from the lost bodyfat .. that's just a matter of continuing your program and let the skin catch up.

If you are really water retentive and just want some help for a few days, you can get some OTC diuretics like Dandelion Root / Uva Ursi. Again these are relatively cheap and safe. These are the primary ingredients in the OTC show diuretic products like Taraxatone & MHP Expel. Don't run these for too long - if you're holding water, it really should only take a few days to help drop it. But generally you don't want to do anything for more than a few days that will directly affect your body's response in terms of water manipulation -- too easy to start throwing off your electrolyte balance. If you're perpetually holding water, that's your body telling you there's something wrong. No OTC stuff should be used as a long-term protocol to force something. (I say this because some peopel discover things like diuretics or anti-estrogens and then start thinking they can use them long-term to "avoid feeling fat" instead of letting their diet / training take care of the actual fat.)

Digestive enzymes & ginger root are available at most places they sell OTC supplements / vitamins and are extremely cheap. Good things to keep in your arsenal.

Amazon Doll
02-12-2011, 06:44 PM
What grains do you eat?

cmeis90
02-12-2011, 10:56 PM
Particularly if you're doing an ultra-clean cut, some things can just irritate your digestion. An example is if you're eating a lot of broccoli - we don't have an enzyme to break down a particular sugar in certain veggies like broccoli, kale, etc. Therefore you just start to get kinda gassy and can't clear out. To this end, consider including Digestive Enzymes or Papaya Enzymes to help digest.

You may also have a food allergy, e.g. gluten / wheat, or lactose. Here you can fix the issue w/ diet by avoiding wheat-based foods and stick w/ gluten-free carb sources.

And just generally if you get an upset stomach, e.g. from protein shakes, you can use ginger root to help settle your stomach. We used it in emergencies when I used to work scuba charters in S. Florida. If someone forgot to take their motion sickness pills an hour before getting on the boat, they were outta luck - but ginger root works pretty quickly. Same idea as the fresh ginger that comes w/ sushi.

If you are water retentive - first I'll just comment on the fact that if you're at that part of a cut where you've dumped a lot of bodyfat from around your midsection, you might be looking at what appears to water retention but is just the skin that hasn't tightend up yet from the lost bodyfat .. that's just a matter of continuing your program and let the skin catch up.

If you are really water retentive and just want some help for a few days, you can get some OTC diuretics like Dandelion Root / Uva Ursi. Again these are relatively cheap and safe. These are the primary ingredients in the OTC show diuretic products like Taraxatone & MHP Expel. Don't run these for too long - if you're holding water, it really should only take a few days to help drop it. But generally you don't want to do anything for more than a few days that will directly affect your body's response in terms of water manipulation -- too easy to start throwing off your electrolyte balance. If you're perpetually holding water, that's your body telling you there's something wrong. No OTC stuff should be used as a long-term protocol to force something. (I say this because some peopel discover things like diuretics or anti-estrogens and then start thinking they can use them long-term to "avoid feeling fat" instead of letting their diet / training take care of the actual fat.)

Digestive enzymes & ginger root are available at most places they sell OTC supplements / vitamins and are extremely cheap. Good things to keep in your arsenal.

Sounds like some solid advice. I think I may try some digestive enzymes and see if they help.

cmeis90
02-12-2011, 10:59 PM
What grains do you eat?

Right now not too many. I try to stay away from anything with any type of flour as I think I'm sensitive to that/wheat in particular but I still seem to have some issues even without eating them.

Nitro Fueled Barbie/Mel Marx
02-12-2011, 11:01 PM
I get this problem too.......I thought it was because I generally diet with high carbs...I always figured that my glycogen was really stored in my muscles, but after trying the keto diet, I have the same problem with high fats too......
Sassy, I think you may be right with the broccoli cuz that's my main green right now.....


Digestive enzymes are key for type os.....not sure if anyone else believes the blood type thing, but I've always had a sluggish digestive system.....enzymes have worked in the past.....


I live on dandelion root...take it everyday......love it....

What does Ginger root do?

sassy69
02-13-2011, 05:19 AM
What does Ginger root do?

http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-ginger-root.html

Ginger Root (Zingiber officinale)

Ginger Root benefits

Ginger is well known as a remedy for travel sickness, nausea and indigestion and is used for wind, colic, irritable bowel, loss of appetite, chills, cold, flu, poor circulation, menstrual cramps, dyspepsia (bloating, heartburn, flatulence), indigestion and gastrointestinal problems such as gas and stomach cramps. Ginger is a powerful anti-inflammatory herb and there has been much recent interest in its use for joint problems. It has also been indicated for arthritis, fevers, headaches, toothaches, coughs, bronchitis, osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, to ease tendonitis, lower cholesterol and blood-pressure and aid in preventing internal blood clots.
Ginger has been well researched and many of its traditional uses confirmed. It is well known as a remedy for travel sickness, nausea and indigestion. It is a warming remedy, ideal for boosting the circulation, lowering high blood pressure and keeping the blood thin in higher doses. Ginger is anti-viral and makes a warming cold and flu remedy. Ginger is a powerful anti-inflammatory herb and there has been much recent interest in its use for joint problems.
Ginger root is a medicinal herb used primarily for the treatment of Dyspepsia (discomfort after eating), this includes the symptoms of bloating, heartburn, flatulence, and nausea. It is also considered helpful as a preventative for motion sickness and as a digestive. Due to it's antispasmodic characteristic some people have used it to help ease menstrual cramps. In some traditional systems it is credited with the ability to treat arthritis, fevers, headaches, and toothaches.
Ginger may also be taken orally as a herbal remedy to prevent or relieve nausea resulting from chemotherapy, motion sickness, pregnancy, and surgery.
Results of laboratory studies as well as from small studies conducted among seasick sailors or ship passengers, found that ginger generally has more effectiveness for relieving motion sickness than placebo (or sugar pills). Several comparisons between ginger and prescription or non-prescription drugs have been conducted for relieving the nausea of pregnancy, but results are inconclusive.
In some of the studies, similar effectiveness was seen between ginger and the comparator drug, while other studies found less or no effectiveness for ginger as compared to the drugs. In general, no adverse effects were noted from using ginger, for either the mother or the developing baby. Ginger has also been used in folk medicine to treat minor gastrointestinal problems such as gas or stomach cramps. Recent studies may confirm that ginger directly affects the gastrointestinal tract, helping to improve muscle tone and to prevent abnormally rapid and strong intestinal contractions.
Results of limited studies in animals with diabetes show that ginger may reduce blood levels of sugar and cholesterol, while also lowering blood pressure. However, no human studies with similar results have been reported. A few small studies that have been conducted in humans have shown some promise for supplemental ginger in the treatment of both osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis.
If a person has exercised too much or suffers from arthritis or rheumatism, ginger has been known to ease inflammation of the joints and muscle tissue. Due to its tremendous circulation-increasing qualities, ginger is thought to improve the complexion. It has reduced nervousness, eased tendonitis, and helped sore throats return to normal. Studies demonstrate that ginger can lower cholesterol levels by reducing cholesterol absorption in the blood and liver. It may also aid in preventing internal blood clots.
_**New Research! **- Ginger root was recently the subject of a startling new research report presented at The American Association for Cancer research conference in Phoenix. In the study, ginger actually suppressed cancer cells suggesting that the herb was able to fuel apoptosis or the death of the cancer cells. Ginger has been shown to work against skin, ovarian, colon and breast cancer. But it had not been shown to halt the progression of cancer until now. However, more research is required to confirm this._
This stimulating herb is warming to the system. In her book '10 Essential Herbs' author Lalitha Thomas describes the properties: "The major active ingredients in ginger are terpenes (quite similar to the chemical action of turpentine) and an oleo-resin called ginger oil. These two, and other active ingredients in ginger, provide antiseptic, lymph-cleansing, circulation-stimulating, and mild constipation relief qualities along with a potent perspiration-inducing action that is quite effective in cleansing the system of toxins."

PDG
02-13-2011, 01:33 PM
How many meals per day do you eat?

What foods do you on average eat per week? (list all, including condiments, anything)

What type of training do you do?

How much water do you drink?

Sodium/potassium intake?

Sleep?

Any drugs? (Rec or Prescription) Caffeine, alcohol, weed, cigs, etc...

Dietary composition (Pro/fat/carbs) for the last 2 weeks?

What is your bf% naturally (without dieting/training) & what is it now?

If it was high & is lower now, how did you lower it, how long ago, etc....

If other way around (from low to high) explain too.

Answer these Qs with as much info as you can, I'm sure I can figure it out.

cmeis90
02-13-2011, 02:08 PM
How many meals per day do you eat?

6

What foods do you on average eat per week? (list all, including condiments, anything)
beef, chicken, eggs, natty pb, olive oil, protein powder, almond butter, one cheat meal a week

What type of training do you do?
5 days a week with weights, high intensity/lower volume

How much water do you drink?

At least a gallon a day

Sodium/potassium intake?

Not completely sure- I don't think overly high though.

Sleep?

8-9 hours a night

Any drugs? (Rec or Prescription) Caffeine, alcohol, weed, cigs, etc...

None but the occasional caffeine

Dietary composition (Pro/fat/carbs) for the last 2 weeks?

Mostly all protein and fat (I always assumed carbs seemed to make the problem worse- currently wondering about that though as I am still bloating)

What is your bf% naturally (without dieting/training) & what is it now?

Always very lean as a kid before I started bodybuilding. Now I would say around 11% or so.

If it was high & is lower now, how did you lower it, how long ago, etc....

I cut in the fall with the Palumbo diet.

If other way around (from low to high) explain too.

Answer these Qs with as much info as you can, I'm sure I can figure it out.

Thanks a lot!

Nitro Fueled Barbie/Mel Marx
02-13-2011, 03:00 PM
http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-ginger-root.html

Ginger Root (Zingiber officinale)

Ginger Root benefits

Ginger is well known as a remedy for travel sickness, nausea and indigestion and is used for wind, colic, irritable bowel, loss of appetite, chills, cold, flu, poor circulation, menstrual cramps, dyspepsia (bloating, heartburn, flatulence), indigestion and gastrointestinal problems such as gas and stomach cramps. Ginger is a powerful anti-inflammatory herb and there has been much recent interest in its use for joint problems. It has also been indicated for arthritis, fevers, headaches, toothaches, coughs, bronchitis, osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, to ease tendonitis, lower cholesterol and blood-pressure and aid in preventing internal blood clots.
Ginger has been well researched and many of its traditional uses confirmed. It is well known as a remedy for travel sickness, nausea and indigestion. It is a warming remedy, ideal for boosting the circulation, lowering high blood pressure and keeping the blood thin in higher doses. Ginger is anti-viral and makes a warming cold and flu remedy. Ginger is a powerful anti-inflammatory herb and there has been much recent interest in its use for joint problems.
Ginger root is a medicinal herb used primarily for the treatment of Dyspepsia (discomfort after eating), this includes the symptoms of bloating, heartburn, flatulence, and nausea. It is also considered helpful as a preventative for motion sickness and as a digestive. Due to it's antispasmodic characteristic some people have used it to help ease menstrual cramps. In some traditional systems it is credited with the ability to treat arthritis, fevers, headaches, and toothaches.
Ginger may also be taken orally as a herbal remedy to prevent or relieve nausea resulting from chemotherapy, motion sickness, pregnancy, and surgery.
Results of laboratory studies as well as from small studies conducted among seasick sailors or ship passengers, found that ginger generally has more effectiveness for relieving motion sickness than placebo (or sugar pills). Several comparisons between ginger and prescription or non-prescription drugs have been conducted for relieving the nausea of pregnancy, but results are inconclusive.
In some of the studies, similar effectiveness was seen between ginger and the comparator drug, while other studies found less or no effectiveness for ginger as compared to the drugs. In general, no adverse effects were noted from using ginger, for either the mother or the developing baby. Ginger has also been used in folk medicine to treat minor gastrointestinal problems such as gas or stomach cramps. Recent studies may confirm that ginger directly affects the gastrointestinal tract, helping to improve muscle tone and to prevent abnormally rapid and strong intestinal contractions.
Results of limited studies in animals with diabetes show that ginger may reduce blood levels of sugar and cholesterol, while also lowering blood pressure. However, no human studies with similar results have been reported. A few small studies that have been conducted in humans have shown some promise for supplemental ginger in the treatment of both osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis.
If a person has exercised too much or suffers from arthritis or rheumatism, ginger has been known to ease inflammation of the joints and muscle tissue. Due to its tremendous circulation-increasing qualities, ginger is thought to improve the complexion. It has reduced nervousness, eased tendonitis, and helped sore throats return to normal. Studies demonstrate that ginger can lower cholesterol levels by reducing cholesterol absorption in the blood and liver. It may also aid in preventing internal blood clots.
_**New Research! **- Ginger root was recently the subject of a startling new research report presented at The American Association for Cancer research conference in Phoenix. In the study, ginger actually suppressed cancer cells suggesting that the herb was able to fuel apoptosis or the death of the cancer cells. Ginger has been shown to work against skin, ovarian, colon and breast cancer. But it had not been shown to halt the progression of cancer until now. However, more research is required to confirm this._
This stimulating herb is warming to the system. In her book '10 Essential Herbs' author Lalitha Thomas describes the properties: "The major active ingredients in ginger are terpenes (quite similar to the chemical action of turpentine) and an oleo-resin called ginger oil. These two, and other active ingredients in ginger, provide antiseptic, lymph-cleansing, circulation-stimulating, and mild constipation relief qualities along with a potent perspiration-inducing action that is quite effective in cleansing the system of toxins."


Thanks so much for this....I'm gonna get some and take with meals.....

PDG
02-13-2011, 11:58 PM
High fat diets can cause indigestion sometimes, even diarrhea.

Ever try cleaning a meat grinder from fat using HCL acid? Ya, nothing happens....same acid you got in your stomach.....along with the gallon a day...which dilutes your stomach acid.

-I would try to cut water intake 1/2 hour before your meals & nothing until 2 hours after to have more concentrated HCL in your stomach for digestion.

-Try decreasing the fat in your diet and see if it helps.Animal fat causes the most indigestion, so I would go with leaner meats & add some extra fat from eggs, PB, OO, AB.

You might wanna decrease your meal frequency, 4 meals/day, see how that works out....I do 2-3/day

Do you burp a lot? when waking up? got a taste of last nights food when you burp? diarrhea ? Stomach feels bloated even in the morning?

Fruits & vegetables cause bloating also, dunno if you didn't list em or you don't eat em.

I'm really against taking HCL/digestive enzymes when indigestion occurs or diuretics when water retention occurs.

You are not bloated/retaining water because of a supplement deficiency of digestive enzymes/diuretics, it's most likely what I outlined above....

Make some changes, see what happens and go from there.

cmeis90
02-14-2011, 06:09 PM
^^^
Thanks for your help. That's very interesting about fats causing indigestion- the whole reason I started the high fat diet was to get away from a lot of carbs, which I was blaming for the problems. Maybe I was very wrong.

Never heard about the water. Makes sense though- have to try it.

I hardly ever burp or have diarrhea. Stomach feels a little bloated most mornings but not nearly as much as it does throughout the day as I start eating.

Don't eat many fruits or vegetables. Fruits are in the carb category which I was blaming for my problem. And vegetables- I just don't like them lol.

Again thanks for your suggestions. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of what exactly is causing it.

sassy69
02-14-2011, 06:32 PM
^^^
Thanks for your help. That's very interesting about fats causing indigestion- the whole reason I started the high fat diet was to get away from a lot of carbs, which I was blaming for the problems. Maybe I was very wrong.

Never heard about the water. Makes sense though- have to try it.

I hardly ever burp or have diarrhea. Stomach feels a little bloated most mornings but not nearly as much as it does throughout the day as I start eating.

Don't eat many fruits or vegetables. Fruits are in the carb category which I was blaming for my problem. And vegetables- I just don't like them lol.

Again thanks for your suggestions. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of what exactly is causing it.

What's very interesting is that there are some people who just do better on higher fat than lower fat diets. But generally w/ any 'extreme' where you're removing any of the typical balance of foods, that something can eventually become an issue - e.g. w/ high fat diets, aka keto, people sometimes forget to include sufficient fiber and start to get backed up. Personally I don't like high fat or high carb and I"m better off keeping them both relatively low. But generally the point is to make sure your body is getting all those things it needs from your diet / lifestyle to function (e.g. shuttle waste out, digest, etc.)

PDG
02-14-2011, 07:15 PM
No problem.

I also wanted to list this earlier but didn't check any sources.

Effects of Insulin: Increase in the secretion of hydrochloric acid by Parietal cells in the stomach. = Increased acidity & digestion, and feeding bacteria at the same time, double edged sword.

I would decrease the fat (especially animal fat) & add some carbs (Med-High GI) that cause the least problems for you. Fruit: I notice watermelon, honey dew, cantaloupe are some of the least problem causing ones, vegetables= constipation & grains I don't touch them, even on cheat meals.

Check this too:

chew your F'in Food.... - RX Muscle Forums

Post back with changes you did, I'm interested in hearing what worked for you, I have a client who was in the same boat and I solved her problem, always looking for guinea pigs :D


What's very interesting is that there are some people who just do better on higher fat than lower fat diets. But generally w/ any 'extreme' where you're removing any of the typical balance of foods, that something can eventually become an issue - e.g. w/ high fat diets, aka keto, people sometimes forget to include sufficient fiber and start to get backed up. Personally I don't like high fat or high carb and I"m better off keeping them both relatively low. But generally the point is to make sure your body is getting all those things it needs from your diet / lifestyle to function (e.g. shuttle waste out, digest, etc.)

So what do you normally eat?

I usually do chicken breast (3-4lbs/day) or turkey breast when on sale, rarely 93/7 ground beef, cook with EVOO or butter, some fish oil & cheat meal when performance starts tanking.

sassy69
02-15-2011, 02:27 AM
So what do you normally eat?

I usually do chicken breast (3-4lbs/day) or turkey breast when on sale, rarely 93/7 ground beef, cook with EVOO or butter, some fish oil & cheat meal when performance starts tanking.

My usual is:

meal 1: 5 egg whites & 1 omega egg + grapefruit or oatmeal & protein mix w/ 1/4 c berries
Meal 2: protein mix + PB
Meal 3: 4-5 oz turkey + veggies
Meal 4: same, maybe w/ more carbs or not
Meal 5: 4-5 oz turkey + veggies + comes carbs
meal 6: if still hungry, a fat + protein

I've been spending a lot of the last 4 years in contest prep - I've done keto, I've done carb cycling, high carb pretty much just makes me fat (strong as a mutha, but fat). Depending, I will do a carb up here & there. Right now I can't look at chicken anymore and turkey is starting to get that way too. Just taking some time off from prep to heal a bum shoulder & deal w/a heavy work schedule.

jonflex
06-21-2011, 12:36 AM
excellent thread , good info sassy69

Hoss06
06-21-2011, 12:53 AM
Would GHRP-6 cause blotation?