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View Full Version : 300-600 mg of Testosterone adds mass at any age



Dr Pangloss
03-25-2009, 07:15 PM
the following study is free, so the link is provided below. this study was 20 weeks done in young (up to 35) and old (over 70). None of the participants were training, so even without training, Test adds fat free mass.

Older gained as well or better than younger, however younger start with more fat free mass. Gain in strength (although none did resistance training) was significant.

blood panels generally look ok, even in older, except a little drop in HDL...

: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. (javascript:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'J Clin Endocrinol Metab.');) 2005 Feb;90(2):678-88. Epub 2004 Nov 23.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corehtml/query/egifs/http:--highwire.stanford.edu-icons-externalservices-pubmed-standard-jcem_final_free.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3051&itool=AbstractPlus-def&uid=15562020&db=pubmed&url=http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=15562020) Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu15562020);)

Older men are as responsive as young men to the anabolic effects of graded doses of testosterone on the skeletal muscle.

Bhasin S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Bhasin%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Woodhouse L (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Woodhouse%20L%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Casaburi R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Casaburi%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Singh AB (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Singh%20AB%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Mac RP (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Mac%20RP%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Lee M (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Lee%20M%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Yarasheski KE (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Yarasheski%20KE%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Sinha-Hikim I (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Sinha-Hikim%20I%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Dzekov C (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Dzekov%20C%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Dzekov J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Dzekov%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Magliano L (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Magliano%20L%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Storer TW (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Storer%20TW%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, University of California, Los Angeles, CA 90059, USA. sbhasin@ucla.edu
Although testosterone levels and muscle mass decline with age, many older men have serum testosterone level in the normal range, leading to speculation about whether older men are less sensitive to testosterone. We determined the responsiveness of androgen-dependent outcomes to graded testosterone doses in older men and compared it to that in young men. The participants in this randomized, double-blind trial were 60 ambulatory, healthy, older men, 60-75 yr of age, who had normal serum testosterone levels. Their responses to graded doses of testosterone were compared with previous data in 61 men, 19-35 yr old. The participants received a long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production and 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg testosterone enanthate weekly for 20 wk. Fat-free mass, fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, mood, visuospatial cognition, hormone levels, and safety measures were evaluated before, during, and after treatment. Of 60 older men who were randomized, 52 completed the study. After adjusting for testosterone dose, changes in serum total testosterone (change, -6.8, -1.9, +16.1, +49.5, and +101.9 nmol/liter at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg/wk, respectively) and hemoglobin (change, -3.6, +9.9, +20.9, +12.6, and +29.4 g/liter at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg/wk, respectively) levels were dose-related in older men and significantly greater in older men than young men (each P < 0.0001). The changes in FFM (-0.3, +1.7, +4.2, +5.6, and +7.3 kg, respectively, in five ascending dose groups) and muscle strength in older men were correlated with testosterone dose and concentrations and were not significantly different in young and older men. Changes in fat mass correlated inversely with testosterone dose (r = -0.54; P < 0.001) and were significantly different in young vs. older men (P < 0.0001); young men receiving 25- and 50-mg doses gained more fat mass than older men (P < 0.0001). Mood and visuospatial cognition did not change significantly in either group. Frequency of hematocrit greater than 54%, leg edema, and prostate events were numerically higher in older men than in young men. Older men are as responsive as young men to testosterone's anabolic effects; however, older men have lower testosterone clearance rates, higher increments in hemoglobin, and a higher frequency of adverse effects. Although substantial gains in muscle mass and strength can be realized in older men with supraphysiological testosterone doses, these high doses are associated with a high frequency of adverse effects. The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events, and significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle strength.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/90/2/678

Canuck_Muscle
03-26-2009, 12:18 AM
Ahh yes my old friend Testosterone. Gotta love it. I will be sad when my cycle is over:( On the bright side it does give me something to look forward to next time around. :)

heavyiron
04-16-2009, 03:14 PM
the following study is free, so the link is provided below. this study was 20 weeks done in young (up to 35) and old (over 70). None of the participants were training, so even without training, Test adds fat free mass.

Older gained as well or better than younger, however younger start with more fat free mass. Gain in strength (although none did resistance training) was significant.

blood panels generally look ok, even in older, except a little drop in HDL...

: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. (http://javascript<b></b>:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'J Clin Endocrinol Metab.');) 2005 Feb;90(2):678-88. Epub 2004 Nov 23.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corehtml/query/egifs/http:--highwire.stanford.edu-icons-externalservices-pubmed-standard-jcem_final_free.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3051&itool=AbstractPlus-def&uid=15562020&db=pubmed&url=http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=15562020) Links (http://javascript<b></b>:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu15562020);)

Older men are as responsive as young men to the anabolic effects of graded doses of testosterone on the skeletal muscle.

Bhasin S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Bhasin%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Woodhouse L (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Woodhouse%20L%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Casaburi R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Casaburi%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Singh AB (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Singh%20AB%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Mac RP (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Mac%20RP%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Lee M (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Lee%20M%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Yarasheski KE (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Yarasheski%20KE%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Sinha-Hikim I (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Sinha-Hikim%20I%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Dzekov C (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Dzekov%20C%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Dzekov J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Dzekov%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Magliano L (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Magliano%20L%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Storer TW (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Storer%20TW%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, University of California, Los Angeles, CA 90059, USA. sbhasin@ucla.edu
Although testosterone levels and muscle mass decline with age, many older men have serum testosterone level in the normal range, leading to speculation about whether older men are less sensitive to testosterone. We determined the responsiveness of androgen-dependent outcomes to graded testosterone doses in older men and compared it to that in young men. The participants in this randomized, double-blind trial were 60 ambulatory, healthy, older men, 60-75 yr of age, who had normal serum testosterone levels. Their responses to graded doses of testosterone were compared with previous data in 61 men, 19-35 yr old. The participants received a long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production and 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg testosterone enanthate weekly for 20 wk. Fat-free mass, fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, mood, visuospatial cognition, hormone levels, and safety measures were evaluated before, during, and after treatment. Of 60 older men who were randomized, 52 completed the study. After adjusting for testosterone dose, changes in serum total testosterone (change, -6.8, -1.9, +16.1, +49.5, and +101.9 nmol/liter at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg/wk, respectively) and hemoglobin (change, -3.6, +9.9, +20.9, +12.6, and +29.4 g/liter at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg/wk, respectively) levels were dose-related in older men and significantly greater in older men than young men (each P < 0.0001). The changes in FFM (-0.3, +1.7, +4.2, +5.6, and +7.3 kg, respectively, in five ascending dose groups) and muscle strength in older men were correlated with testosterone dose and concentrations and were not significantly different in young and older men. Changes in fat mass correlated inversely with testosterone dose (r = -0.54; P < 0.001) and were significantly different in young vs. older men (P < 0.0001); young men receiving 25- and 50-mg doses gained more fat mass than older men (P < 0.0001). Mood and visuospatial cognition did not change significantly in either group. Frequency of hematocrit greater than 54%, leg edema, and prostate events were numerically higher in older men than in young men. Older men are as responsive as young men to testosterone's anabolic effects; however, older men have lower testosterone clearance rates, higher increments in hemoglobin, and a higher frequency of adverse effects. Although substantial gains in muscle mass and strength can be realized in older men with supraphysiological testosterone doses, these high doses are associated with a high frequency of adverse effects. The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events, and significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle strength.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/90/2/678
Very interesting, thank you.

What strikes me is how the older men responded a little bit differently then the younger men. This trial mirrors one of my favorites (the one with the young men) The very last point was a little unexpected as the younger men did not respond so well to the 125mg dose in the other trial. I guess the older you get the greater the disparity in testosterone levels and therefore the greater the response.

Good find brother!

thepump
04-16-2009, 03:19 PM
Ahh yes my old friend Testosterone. Gotta love it. I will be sad when my cycle is over:( On the bright side it does give me something to look forward to next time around. :)

Most never come off they just go on a maintanence dose. :eek: