Figure Stack?

[DameDash]

Hi. I am newly learning about the Fem Chem area and appreciate all the posts and insight on this thread. I am looking for basic advice for a friend who competes in figure. Next competitions are Maryland State Aug 27 and North Americans Sep 3. Last show was Arnold Am.

Last show: Winny 10-20mg daily, Clen 20mg daily, Hgh 2iu daily.
Current stats: 33 yrs old, 5'5, 128lbs.
Needs: Has great overall symmetry, so she could use a little size equally everywhere. Was pretty lean last show but could come in a tad tighter.

From recent advice and at 20+ weeks out we are thinking stack Anavar + Winny. Can you run two orals at fem chem dosing that long? Would it not be better to run Winny injectable? Or best to run Anavar only now, tapering up dose from 10 to 20mg daily, then switch to Winny 6-8 weeks out?

We don't want to run any Test. Are national level figure competitors running Deca for size or Primo? Is Primo even cost effective?

When would you add Clen 8-12 weeks out? Is T4 worth it when you get into pretty good shape without, for figure? Would Nolvadex be better pre comp prep and at what dosing, 10-20mg daily?

[sassy69]

First of all - whatcha doing off season? If you want to add size, it needs to happen off season.

At 20+ weeks out, I'd start w/ anavar 10->20 mg/day. The biggest caveat about running winstrol for a long time is that it is androgenic and tends impact estrogen a bit and can result in brittle feeling / dry joints. This can be painful and lends itself well to tendonitis as you deplete. I'd save the winstrol for closer to show time- e.g. 12 weeks. You can keep running the anavar if you want or drop it. Running it that long is not really a big deal as long as the dose stays low.

There's really no reason to run test, so don't bother going there. Really don't recommend deca at all - its extremely water-retentive. If you want to go into something off season try NPP before you go to Deca. Primo doesn't aromatize so you don't have to deal w/ water retention & is nice for a cutting cycle. But both are significantly more androgenic than low dose anavar & winstrol so please do your research to understand the sides you can expect. These also are longer acting so will take longer to clear if you don't like the sides - these include voice change, hair loss, acne, always expect interrupted period, increased blood pressure, cholesterol.

How do you plan to run clen ? You can run it that far out - either at 2 weeks on / 2 off, or run it continuously but either way get your l-taurine to deal w/ cramps. (You can search on clen / taurine for a bunch of threads on it on RX.)

Nolvadex save for your last 4-8 weeks and keep it at 20 mg / day, split the dose in half AM & PM. Also recommend including acidophilus w/ either AAS or nolvadex - anything that screws w/ your hormones has the potential to promote yeast infections. And w/ Nolva, run it thru your show day, but then have enough to taper off for a week after to reduce estrogen rebound.

[lucian]

Ok im not here to bust balls or hate on anything that was said. But, gh, stacking all these drugs on a 5 foot 5 frame? really? do most of the figure girls do this?

Decca and test? really? for real, i dont know what figure girls do drug wise. Bbers, yes, but i thought maybe a lil clen or t3 for figure.

Is this why when you see some pros or even top national competitors offseason they look very soft and thick compared to contest time?

like i said no dis respect or anything. Sassy did you used to be on Promuscle?

Lucian

[hiredgun]

Ok im not here to bust balls or hate on anything that was said. But, gh, stacking all these drugs on a 5 foot 5 frame? really? do most of the figure girls do this?

Decca and test? really? for real, i dont know what figure girls do drug wise. Bbers, yes, but i thought maybe a lil clen or t3 for figure.

Is this why when you see some pros or even top national competitors offseason they look very soft and thick compared to contest time?

like i said no dis respect or anything. Sassy did you used to be on Promuscle?

Lucian

I coudn't say it any better myself, so I won't. Couldn't even add anything so I won't do that either. Just one big quote, you made some great points bro!!!

[sassy69]

Ok im not here to bust balls or hate on anything that was said. But, gh, stacking all these drugs on a 5 foot 5 frame? really? do most of the figure girls do this?

Decca and test? really? for real, i dont know what figure girls do drug wise. Bbers, yes, but i thought maybe a lil clen or t3 for figure.

Is this why when you see some pros or even top national competitors offseason they look very soft and thick compared to contest time?

like i said no dis respect or anything. Sassy did you used to be on Promuscle?

Lucian

I would agree that its not necessary, but then if you're going to say who should & shouldn't be running what, I'm sure a good 40% of guys starting a cycle have no business running it either.

But to that end, 'splain me why a Bikini competitor would even be AWARE of any of the chemistry? But they use it too. People use this stuff because it exists. Has very little to do w/ what they "should" or "shouldn't" do. I would argue that NO ONE should get on stage until they've had at least a solid year of real training. But no one bothers w/ that these days because its all about how fast and how many times you can get on stage and "OMG I NEED TO GAIN 10 lb of LEAN MASS BY MY NEXT SHOW --- THE JUDGES SAID I NEED TO DO THIS!!!!" Uh... talk to me after you've spent a couple years in the gym and have half a clue about dieting consistently for more than 2 weeks.

So yea, I totally agree, but that doesn't get anyone closer to getting more information to make informed decisions about this. I would venture the greatest contributor to steroid "abuse" by women who have no business running cycles for the goals intended, is well-meaning guy friends. But all that aside, there's precious little information available for women to become informed so IMO at least ask the questions and feel comfortable talking about it - in the open or in a PM, instead of just being told "You shouldn't do that" while guys are juicing to the gills all day long.

Also to your point - there is really NO NEED AT ALL for anything beyond anavar for a figure competition. If you feel you need more than that, you probably really need a year off to build some mass and get to know your body a little better.

re: Promuscle - I may have had a login from like 2002 or something but I don't recall going to that website any time in the near to distant past.

[lucian]

I would agree that its not necessary, but then if you're going to say who should & shouldn't be running what, I'm sure a good 40% of guys starting a cycle have no business running it either.

But to that end, 'splain me why a Bikini competitor would even be AWARE of any of the chemistry? But they use it too. People use this stuff because it exists. Has very little to do w/ what they "should" or "shouldn't" do. I would argue that NO ONE should get on stage until they've had at least a solid year of real training. But no one bothers w/ that these days because its all about how fast and how many times you can get on stage and "OMG I NEED TO GAIN 10 lb of LEAN MASS BY MY NEXT SHOW --- THE JUDGES SAID I NEED TO DO THIS!!!!" Uh... talk to me after you've spent a couple years in the gym and have half a clue about dieting consistently for more than 2 weeks.

So yea, I totally agree, but that doesn't get anyone closer to getting more information to make informed decisions about this. I would venture the greatest contributor to steroid "abuse" by women who have no business running cycles for the goals intended, is well-meaning guy friends. But all that aside, there's precious little information available for women to become informed so IMO at least ask the questions and feel comfortable talking about it - in the open or in a PM, instead of just being told "You shouldn't do that" while guys are juicing to the gills all day long.

Also to your point - there is really NO NEED AT ALL for anything beyond anavar for a figure competition. If you feel you need more than that, you probably really need a year off to build some mass and get to know your body a little better.

re: Promuscle - I may have had a login from like 2002 or something but I don't recall going to that website any time in the near to distant past.


Thanks Sassy. I agree. i knew a guy using so much gear, an actual olympia competitor was shocked at how much he took. and this guy trained like crap, ate like 1200 cal a day and barely broke 165lb at 5'9" tall and bitched about how he couldn't gain mass and needed to use more gear. :0

Some people have no business using gear at all. men or women. im not sure where it went from a lil var to test gh, decca and who knows what else. And if they don't know what to use then the prolly don't know HOW to use it safely and how to come off it.

Thanks for your time.

Lucian

[lucian]

Hi. I am newly learning about the Fem Chem area and appreciate all the posts and insight on this thread. I am looking for basic advice for a friend who competes in figure. Next competitions are Maryland State Aug 27 and North Americans Sep 3. Last show was Arnold Am.

Last show: Winny 10-20mg daily, Clen 20mg daily, Hgh 2iu daily.
Current stats: 33 yrs old, 5'5, 128lbs.
Needs: Has great overall symmetry, so she could use a little size equally everywhere. Was pretty lean last show but could come in a tad tighter.

From recent advice and at 20+ weeks out we are thinking stack Anavar + Winny. Can you run two orals at fem chem dosing that long? Would it not be better to run Winny injectable? Or best to run Anavar only now, tapering up dose from 10 to 20mg daily, then switch to Winny 6-8 weeks out?

We don't want to run any Test. Are national level figure competitors running Deca for size or Primo? Is Primo even cost effective?

When would you add Clen 8-12 weeks out? Is T4 worth it when you get into pretty good shape without, for figure? Would Nolvadex be better pre comp prep and at what dosing, 10-20mg daily?


My advice, skip the other shows, hit the gym hard and improve. It doesnt sound like she will be able to accomplish the goals this year drugs or no drugs.

People dont understand, it takes time to grow and even out a physique, UNLESS you are one of the genetic freaks which if she was one of them we wouldn't be writing this thread right now, and she would be winning without the drugs.

Go back to the drawing board, hit the gym hard and get ready for next season.

[BB'nMom]

Hi. I am newly learning about the Fem Chem area and appreciate all the posts and insight on this thread. I am looking for basic advice for a friend who competes in figure. Next competitions are Maryland State Aug 27 and North Americans Sep 3. Last show was Arnold Am.

Last show: Winny 10-20mg daily, Clen 20mg daily, Hgh 2iu daily.
Current stats: 33 yrs old, 5'5, 128lbs.
Needs: Has great overall symmetry, so she could use a little size equally everywhere. Was pretty lean last show but could come in a tad tighter.

From recent advice and at 20+ weeks out we are thinking stack Anavar + Winny. Can you run two orals at fem chem dosing that long? Would it not be better to run Winny injectable? Or best to run Anavar only now, tapering up dose from 10 to 20mg daily, then switch to Winny 6-8 weeks out?

We don't want to run any Test. Are national level figure competitors running Deca for size or Primo? Is Primo even cost effective?

When would you add Clen 8-12 weeks out? Is T4 worth it when you get into pretty good shape without, for figure? Would Nolvadex be better pre comp prep and at what dosing, 10-20mg daily?

I'm no chem expert, but think Sassy gave some incredibly good advice in her posts... especially her thoughts in the 2nd one about gear use period.

To that, I just wanted to add my own two cents. I've never competed, I lift for the love of lifting and until 12 days ago had never touched anything stronger than creatine and whey, and I have WAY too much muscle for figure. It's time in the gym, and nutrition alone. I'm no genetic anomaly either.

I have no opposition to people using gear, but I think that they need to be doing their own research, not relying on others to do it for them. I also think that it needs to be a long thought out process, not something that gets made in a flash in order to make as many gains as possibly before cramming in another show. I think it's too easy to become so focused on the end goal, that mistakes are made... mistakes that might be regretted for a long time to come. I look back at my life when I was younger and realize that I could have waited several situations out and wouldn't have missed a thing, and probably would have been better off if I had just waited. I'm so very glad gear use was one of the things I waited for.

I don't mean to sound negative, or discouraging in any way. I just want to present a few things to think about. By all means, if a person is going to use, I'd rather they come here and learn as much as possible. Best of luck to you both. :)

[sassy69]

^^ I would venture that the most important thing is that the questions get asked, and the person asking is open-minded enough to accept responses and consider all of it at all levels. At the end of the day its still self-medication w/ male hormones and you're the ONLY one who has to deal w/ the results AND the sides.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one- but I don't think it helps anyone w/ the constant blanket statement "women shouldn't" and then imply its a taboo topic. That is what sets women back even further w/o access to information and discussion and additionally stigma that you can't even ask. Thus the education and conversation gets dropped, but the uninformed cycling continues. THIS is what I want to avoid.

And to the OP - don't take any of this personally - this same discussion comes up w/ EVERY post about this topic.

[seanmech]

Ok im not here to bust balls or hate on anything that was said. But, gh, stacking all these drugs on a 5 foot 5 frame? really? do most of the figure girls do this?

Decca and test? really? for real, i dont know what figure girls do drug wise. Bbers, yes, but i thought maybe a lil clen or t3 for figure.

Is this why when you see some pros or even top national competitors offseason they look very soft and thick compared to contest time?

like i said no dis respect or anything. Sassy did you used to be on Promuscle?

Lucian

I was realy shocked after reading this, i truely thought all figure and most certainly bikini girl were all natral lol. Fitness and female bodybuilding yes!! How nieve was i!!

[sassy69]

I was realy shocked after reading this, i truely thought all figure and most certainly bikini girl were all natral lol. Fitness and female bodybuilding yes!! How nieve was i!!

:yep:

[fitbody]

I was realy shocked after reading this, i truely thought all figure and most certainly bikini girl were all natral lol. Fitness and female bodybuilding yes!! How nieve was i!!

bhahhahahahahahahahaha :lmao:

[fitbody]

:yep:

Hi Sassy
hope alls well with you :flowers:

[BB'nMom]

^^ I would venture that the most important thing is that the questions get asked, and the person asking is open-minded enough to accept responses and consider all of it at all levels. At the end of the day its still self-medication w/ male hormones and you're the ONLY one who has to deal w/ the results AND the sides.

completely agreed. regardless of the circumstances it's used under, being educated is the most important thing.

I was realy shocked after reading this, i truely thought all figure and most certainly bikini girl were all natral lol. Fitness and female bodybuilding yes!! How nieve was i!!
LOL

[sassy69]

Hi Sassy
hope alls well with you :flowers:


Hey Dawn! Takin' a little time off to deal w/ a boatload of work (work work).

How's married life treating ya?

[DameDash]

First and foremost I really appreciate Sassy's time and advice. I love how she answers pm's and posts. She keeps it real but is so professional and respectful of others! Especially the part about raising the questions. Do I want my figure competitor friend to use a bunch of gear, Test or even Deca? No! For the record she is not a newbie to training, competition etc just Fem Chem. I've seen her go from bikini physique at best to national level figure.

But she chooses to, may be a little impatient and should do more of her own research. On the other hand she does bust ass in the gym, is very focused & disciplined and was not out of place on that Arnold Amateur stage. Just because you miss the top 10 at such a show does not mean you're garbage or do not have IFBB pro potential.

Her symmetry is sick in my book. She just needs a little size evenly, everywhere. And I told her that will come with a solid off season, not in 23 weeks before your next show because you changed your gear around. But she's gonna do something so I may as well look out for her as she's got some shit advice from so called "national level males" before!

As far as people thinking Figure competitors do not use or only use a little Var... are you freaking kidding me. I've seen some very feminine figure girls with some obvious voice changes at the STATE level.

As far as bikini girls using AAS that's absurd if the do. And any use of cutting agents is just plain ass lazy on their part because they don't have to be ripped in the first place. Clen, T3 & Nolva... Come on! This is all why do to her structure and lack of desire to use any AAS, I've steered my GF to bikini from figure (as I too originally scoffed at the division). Yet she can leg press with most guys.

Appreciate everyone's advice, opinions and knowledge. Thanks again. I do encourage her not to depend on me or any other guy or girl for knowledge. I know I wouldn't!

@Lucian... I see your point. But she will not skip these shows. In fact I believe firmly that she is top 3 for the Maryland and top 10 for the NA's. She's got that kind of potential minimum!

[sassy69]

Sounds like things are in a reasonably good place. Not knowing what sort of metabolism we're dealing with, conceivably at 23 weeks out, you've got about 7 weeks to work with before a 16 week prep. Var takes about 2 weeks to get going, so this could be a short bulker w/ diet doing the heavy lifting, but keep it a clean bulk to minimize flab gained in the process. The continued var and later stacking in winstrol will support muscle preservation during the cut. If you can throw in some gh, you'd get a little extra umph, but then drop it at 10-14 days out from the target show if there is water retention associated with it. Additonal nolva at 8 weeks out would help w/ the final cut, and if you're really into it, proviron complements the nolva to encourage cutting esp in the mid-section. It is an androgen for sure, but for e.g. 4 weeks it can work well.

[Amazon Doll]

What's wrong with using gear while dieting to preserve hard worked for muscle? it seems thet is where all the hard earned muscle would be compromised.

And what's with all the guy's who are shocked or just want to learn posting in this thread....seems like they should start their own thread about drug abuse with females?

Oh Wait!!! that has been done ad nauseam already on this board









.

[tammyp]

one thing i have learned since being involved in fem chem on this board. answer the questions and dont try and talk someone out of it. (unless its soemthing completely absurd!) i know i speak for jill as well when i say were here to try to educate, not judge.

[lucian]

@Lucian... I see your point. But she will not skip these shows. In fact I believe firmly that she is top 3 for the Maryland and top 10 for the NA's. She's got that kind of potential minimum!


i understand top 3 but why not try and explain top 3 this year,but next year with improvements she will win and be top 5 in the NA. If she didnt get top 5 @ the Arnold the NA are similar. its national show. Not hating on her but if she has potential, then the judges will not say ok she has potential. Its the same judges from the Arnold. Its the National judges.

Maybe blur her face on some pics and see if she will post em up. And we might be able to help her improve, as you know even with the drugs it takes more.

I train one figure girl, has overalls at regional shows (Contra Costa) class wins @ huge state shows(cal state) last year class win @ the Lehigh, and a top 4 at the Arnold. She doesn't even know what the drugs are! She doesn't even know what clen is. How do i know she isnt lying.....i live w her! Its my GF Kari Keenan.

She is a top national contender and local and regional champion. and she does it without anything. So you see how i assumed most figure girls would not need any drugs at all?

[Power Princess Jess]

Sassy, I gotta hand it to you. You're an honest and well spoken writer and woman. Some guys just don't get it. What people decided to do is their own business, however, men and women should be made aware of the "stressors" they're adding to their body. It's a topic that should be discussed by those who deem it necessary.

[sassy69]

Sassy, I gotta hand it to you. You're an honest and well spoken writer and woman. Some guys just don't get it. What people decided to do is their own business, however, men and women should be made aware of the "stressors" they're adding to their body. It's a topic that should be discussed by those who deem it necessary.

Its actually huge - the most common illustration of the stress of dieting & all the stuff associated w/ prep - natural or not, is post-competition syndrome. We see the rebound effect in weight gain/ water retention, mood swing, feeling burnt out or exhausted, but also go get blood work done and see what the impact of the stress & dieting did to your system. Generally it recovers, but its quite dramatic when you look at the internal effects of all of this. Even more dramatic if you look at post-cycle blood work in terms of cholesterol, impact to liver, kidneys, blood pressure, etc.

Literally, ain't nuttin for free.

[lucian]

Im not trying to ruffle any feathers and i tell everyone men and women the same thing. I have male and female friends and I give them all the same advice.

"If you are not placing top 2 in a local and regional class....dont take the drugs" PERIOD! your not gonna make a living off this, you can do well without them, and for gods sake, if you have a family, and you are placing out of the top 5 ESPECIALLY...STOP THE DAMN DRUGS!

So many times i have seen peoples lives torn apart from legal ramifications of drug use while they are looking for a simple plastic trophy.

I understand....you want to be a bodybuilder, you want to be known as one of those people....well look in the mirror. Chances are most people around you already consider you a bodybuilder even if you don't take drugs or compete.

im not looking to bash anyone, but i honestly feel men or woman, if you don't have the genetics the drugs will not help you. They are only going to wear on your body, drain your money, but hopefully you get to keep your life!

I had a good friend, Anthoney D'arezzo. he was a freak! but just couldnt get to the top 5 at a national show. well Anthoney DIED at the Masters nationals a few years ago. AT THE SHOW! Even against doctors orders...he still went through with the show. That opened a lot of eyes, If he couldnt get that pro and he was better than 95% of all of us....then what are we killing ourselves for? Here is a link to his story:

http://www.ergogenics.org/darezzo.html

People please, the drugs arent new, they have been around a long time. They will NOT MAKE YOU A CHAMPION if you dont already have the genetics. Please be careful!

[BB'nMom]

DameDash... you seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and certainly have her best interests at heart. I think that's pretty damn cool. :)

[Amazon Doll]

Im not trying to ruffle any feathers and i tell everyone men and women the same thing. I have male and female friends and I give them all the same advice.

"If you are not placing top 2 in a local and regional class....dont take the drugs" PERIOD! your not gonna make a living off this, you can do well without them, and for gods sake, if you have a family, and you are placing out of the top 5 ESPECIALLY...STOP THE DAMN DRUGS!

So many times i have seen peoples lives torn apart from legal ramifications of drug use while they are looking for a simple plastic trophy.

I understand....you want to be a bodybuilder, you want to be known as one of those people....well look in the mirror. Chances are most people around you already consider you a bodybuilder even if you don't take drugs or compete.

im not looking to bash anyone, but i honestly feel men or woman, if you don't have the genetics the drugs will not help you. They are only going to wear on your body, drain your money, but hopefully you get to keep your life!

I had a good friend, Anthoney D'arezzo. he was a freak! but just couldnt get to the top 5 at a national show. well Anthoney DIED at the Masters nationals a few years ago. AT THE SHOW! Even against doctors orders...he still went through with the show. That opened a lot of eyes, If he couldnt get that pro and he was better than 95% of all of us....then what are we killing ourselves for? Here is a link to his story:

http://www.ergogenics.org/darezzo.html

People please, the drugs arent new, they have been around a long time. They will NOT MAKE YOU A CHAMPION if you dont already have the genetics. Please be careful!

you are preaching in this girls thread though. Start a thread about what you believe, don't hyjack a thread about specific questions is all I am saying.

[danieleslinger02]

you are preaching in this girls thread though. Start a thread about what you believe, don't hyjack a thread about specific questions is all I am saying.

Dude, People are gonna do what they want to do. I dont think its right to preach because you never know what your gonna place until you get onstage, and lets be real, our main goal, mean and women alike is to be the best we can be. why is he or she going to stop chasing a dream by a couple bad placings. Many of female especially have gone from worst to first in a matter of one show!

[Johnny Phenomenon]

Ok im not here to bust balls or hate on anything that was said. But, gh, stacking all these drugs on a 5 foot 5 frame? really? do most of the figure girls do this?

Decca and test? really? for real, i dont know what figure girls do drug wise. Bbers, yes, but i thought maybe a lil clen or t3 for figure.

Is this why when you see some pros or even top national competitors offseason they look very soft and thick compared to contest time?

like i said no dis respect or anything. Sassy did you used to be on Promuscle?

Lucian

Deca and gh are big for anything with a tumbling routine, at 5 foot 5, she doesn't have a very big frame so the joint/tendon damage when training is probably much higher. I know she's figure and not fitness, but if deca and gh work for her, all the power to her...she's certainly not a minority.

[sassy69]

Ok im not here to bust balls or hate on anything that was said. But, gh, stacking all these drugs on a 5 foot 5 frame? really? do most of the figure girls do this?


"Most" figure girls probably do not do that - var & winstrol, maybe primo. But you still can't make up for no time spent lifting. IMO a huge part of a succuessful cycle and maintenance of gains is having the discipline that already comes from at least a few years of diet & training natually and w/o the cost of getting on stage 5x/year to compete (i.e. time on stage is the goal as opposed to time in the gym to first build the appropriate physique).



Decca and test? really? for real, i dont know what figure girls do drug wise. Bbers, yes, but i thought maybe a lil clen or t3 for figure.


Something to keep in mind w/ any of these newer categories - the money is made on these categories that have lower barriers to entry so they are easier to prep for (i.e don't need the years of discipline in the gym first) and the drive is actually more time on stage - that translates to more money spent on trainers. Who are those trainers ? The same ones who have been in the BB industry for 20 yrs and have learned how to use the full arsenal of what is available - back in the day the typical stack was deca & winstrol or dbol - these were the things easiest to get for the price. So how many girls out there started their path to the dark side w/ helpful guy friend / bf / trainer/ SO saying "here just use this - it will lean you out & tone you up" -- cuz it works for them. Next thing you know there's this exotic and hefty, 6 week stack that you're supposed to run for a figure or bikini show. THAT is how most women would even get the remote idea to use any of this stuff. Its not right, its ignorant, but when you've got guys who have "mastered" it for themselves and an industry that has been going that route for 50 yrs, that's what you have a chance of ending up with.

And THIS is exactly why I continue to say the best thing anyone can do is ASK QUESTIONS - even if you "trust" whoever gave you this stack because "he knows what he's doing and would never hurt me" - even the best intentions can be completely wrong and very dangerous - YOUR body, YOUR results, YOUR sides..... so your decision - get as informed as you can.


Is this why when you see some pros or even top national competitors offseason they look very soft and thick compared to contest time?


I would think this is more a function of bulk vs cut. If someone is running an off-season bulker cycle, it is more likely to have an aromatizing compound in it and they are more likely to be eating to build. Some people take the "off season" thing a little too far and just get sloppy. But it can be as simple as it isn't "on season" and they want a break from the strict dieting and just let it all go. Don't think this necessarily has anything specifically to do w/ "using test and decca" off season for every competitor. It might be a contributor but IMO its more the nature of being the opposite of "on season" and also running protocols (diets with or without AAS) off season, not running any cutters or estrogen blockers since you'd want more to have water in your system than not to build. And maybe they completed a show and rebounded like a bitch and are now hauling around the results. Too broad an observation to simply blame on steroids.

[DameDash]

Excellent post Sassy. I have a problem with this rush to the stage in any division but I understand that money motivates the promoters.

My GF has trained hard & busted her ass for figure since 2007. She just does not have the structure. She is 5'10.5 with great muscular quads, hams & calves! Although she naturally has a tiny, flat waist, she also has a tad bit wider hips & a bit more booty than most upper level figure athletes. She has focused on trying to bring up her upper body as she does not carry the muscle in the shoulders that's needed for figure & she has slightly narrow shoulders. She has brought up her arms and back and delts to some degree but all these structural issues makes her best suited for bikini and as per her coach Nicole Wilkins Lee. Not to mention the fact as a Type I Diabetic & super health conscious she would not use any meds not prescribed.

I really appreciate all the ladies contributions on this forum. It is good to see! Thanks!

[sassy69]

Excellent post Sassy. I have a problem with this rush to the stage in any division but I understand that money motivates the promoters.

My GF has trained hard & busted her ass for figure since 2007. She just does not have the structure. She is 5'10.5 with great muscular quads, hams & calves! Although she naturally has a tiny, flat waist, she also has a tad bit wider hips & a bit more booty than most upper level figure athletes. She has focused on trying to bring up her upper body as she does not carry the muscle in the shoulders that's needed for figure & she has slightly narrow shoulders. She has brought up her arms and back and delts to some degree but all these structural issues makes her best suited for bikini and as per her coach Nicole Wilkins Lee. Not to mention the fact as a Type I Diabetic & super health conscious she would not use any meds not prescribed.

I really appreciate all the ladies contributions on this forum. It is good to see! Thanks!

Best of luck w/ upcoming shows!

[DameDash]

Best of luck w/ upcoming shows!

Mega thanks again, Sassy! :hmn:

[lucian]

I would think this is more a function of bulk vs cut. If someone is running an off-season bulker cycle, it is more likely to have an aromatizing compound in it and they are more likely to be eating to build. Some people take the "off season" thing a little too far and just get sloppy. But it can be as simple as it isn't "on season" and they want a break from the strict dieting and just let it all go. Don't think this necessarily has anything specifically to do w/ "using test and decca" off season for every competitor. It might be a contributor but IMO its more the nature of being the opposite of "on season" and also running protocols (diets with or without AAS) off season, not running any cutters or estrogen blockers since you'd want more to have water in your system than not to build. And maybe they completed a show and rebounded like a bitch and are now hauling around the results. Too broad an observation to simply blame on steroids.[/quote]


What i ,meant about the offseaon comment was, do these women not even resemble a figure competitor in the offseason because they really dont know how to diet and train and just rely on the drugs to get in shape?

I mean if you really like to train and know how to diet, you should be about 10-12 lb from contest in the offseason. Some of these women look like bricks! no taper, no athletic look, like they don't even train. then boom 10 weeks shredded.

Then you see some women who look great all year and dont look unhealthy and take 20 weeks to diet into a show. Its looking like the people who use the drugs, no matter how hard they THINK they are training and infact leaning on the drugs like a crutch.

Ive been doing this for 20 years now, see and used just about everything, and its just sad the direction things have gone.

[Ibarramedia]

I would agree that its not necessary, but then if you're going to say who should & shouldn't be running what, I'm sure a good 40% of guys starting a cycle have no business running it either.

But to that end, 'splain me why a Bikini competitor would even be AWARE of any of the chemistry? But they use it too. People use this stuff because it exists. Has very little to do w/ what they "should" or "shouldn't" do. I would argue that NO ONE should get on stage until they've had at least a solid year of real training. But no one bothers w/ that these days because its all about how fast and how many times you can get on stage and "OMG I NEED TO GAIN 10 lb of LEAN MASS BY MY NEXT SHOW --- THE JUDGES SAID I NEED TO DO THIS!!!!" Uh... talk to me after you've spent a couple years in the gym and have half a clue about dieting consistently for more than 2 weeks.

So yea, I totally agree, but that doesn't get anyone closer to getting more information to make informed decisions about this. I would venture the greatest contributor to steroid "abuse" by women who have no business running cycles for the goals intended, is well-meaning guy friends. But all that aside, there's precious little information available for women to become informed so IMO at least ask the questions and feel comfortable talking about it - in the open or in a PM, instead of just being told "You shouldn't do that" while guys are juicing to the gills all day long.

Also to your point - there is really NO NEED AT ALL for anything beyond anavar for a figure competition. If you feel you need more than that, you probably really need a year off to build some mass and get to know your body a little better.

re: Promuscle - I may have had a login from like 2002 or something but I don't recall going to that website any time in the near to distant past.



Good post.