Keto confusion need an answer

[TUFF]

i am following dave's 250lb cutting diet

i was told on MD not to follow it but to find out my LBM and multiply it by .25 for protein per meal and .10 for fat per meal and eat that amount as it is more accurate.

any opinions?

[becks]

I personnally would recommend you make calculations for any diet based on your lbm.

What do you weigh?
What is your body fat %?

[Myth]

MD member only? Or is he a member here as well? ;)

[TUFF]

weigh 275 bf 25% (guessing)

I was a member at MD first and when I saw Dave had a new place I came over here too. I enjoy both forums. This one is a little slow in the diet section so I ask the same questions on both. You do get conflicting answers by hitting multiple forums though.

[Frosty]

I think you'd do well on the regular Palumbo Diet with 300g protein, 120g fat.

[jjjohns_10]

I think you'd do well on the regular Palumbo Diet with 300g protein, 120g fat.

I agree

[TUFF]

i've been doing the one for a 250lb man. is this the one your talking about or the one for a 200lb man.

[Frosty]

Whatever the one that's posted around the most....it'll have 300g pro and 120g fat approximately.

[TUFF]

this is the one i'm using

Diet: (for 250lb man)
Meal 1 6 whole Omega-3 eggs
Meal 2 8oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds
Meal 3 50g whey with 2 tablespoons all natural peanutbutter (PWO)
Meal 4 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil
Meal 5 50 g whey with 2 tablespoon PB
Meal 6 6 whole eggs

[Frosty]

That looks decent. I'd just cut back the almonds in meal 2. That's over 40g of fat for that meal. Meals 1 and 6 are only 36g protein and 30g of fat. I'd change both of those to less whole eggs and add whites, or add some meat, or just do all meat. Just make sure you're taking fish oil. I always say it because sometimes people don't!

[TUFF]

Diet: (for 250lb man)
Meal 1 6 whole Omega-3 eggs 70c 4f 6 p .5car
Meal 2 8oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds 46c 1f 9pr 400c 35f 15c 15 pro
Meal 3 50g whey with 2 tablespoons all natural peanutbutter (PWO)
Meal 4 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil
Meal 5 50 g whey with 2 tablespoon PB
Meal 6 6 whole eggs


Meal 1 420 calories, 24g fat, 36g pro, 3g carbs
Meal 2 368 calories, 8g fat, 72g pro, 400 calories, 35g fat, 15g pro, 15gcarbs
- total 768 calories, 43g fat, 87g pro, 15g carbs
Meal 3 220 calories, 1g fat, 50g pro, 3g carbs, 200 calories, 18g fat,7g pro,
6g carbs
- total 420 calories, 19g fat, 57g pro, 9g carbs
Meal 4 448 calories, 8g fat, 80g pro, 120 calories, 13.5g fat
-total 568 calories, 21.5g fat, 80g pro
Meal 5 420 calories, 19g fat, 57g pro, 9g carbs
Meal 6 420 calories, 24g fat, 36g pro, 3g carbs

total 3016 calories, 150 fat, 353g pro, 39g carbs
not sure about protein but nutritiondata says 9g per oz chicken and 10 beef
what do you think about the macros?
I have been losing weight with this but even at these macros is may be a reduction in calorie intake for me which may be the weight loss. I guess if it was tweeked it would be even better.
So should I be trying to get my protein down to 250 and fat to 125? This would also reduce carbs.
How do you set it up if I started at 275 lbs and want my target weight to be less. Do I change macros as I drop weight?

[Frosty]

If you're making good progress right now eating 150g fat, 353g pro, I wouldn't change a thing. Only once progress slows or stalls would I cut it back.

[TUFF]

down from 275 to 263 after 3 weeks. 1st cheat after 2 weeks. gained 5lbs and lost it this week. 263 this morning and 2nd cheat is tonight.

also one thing i need to admit is that my wife had a baby 4 weeks ago so i haven't been to the gym these 3 weeks of my diet. this weight loss is from me just going to work and sitting around at home. no lifting or cardio. hope to get back to it sunday. i would assume the weight loss will increase with the gym.

[Frosty]

Yeah when you do the weights and cardio you'll get results. Don't change the diet right now. You want to leave some bullets in the revolver for later.

[Legend]

This is Dave's example cookie cutter diet for a 250lb man that he kindly posted for everybody so we all could get an idea of what his diet is about.

However, he accidently typed 1/2 cup of almonds instead of 1/3 cup of almonds.

He has been telling everybody this for about 2 years now. :D

[TUFF]

i was thinking about taking the almonds down to 1/3 cup and cutting the meat portions to 6 oz.

[gman]

he has me eating 1/3 cup on the 200lb diet. I wonder if it should be 1/4 c

[TUFF]

I don't think its a mistake. I've seen the diet posted too many places that way plus I've emailed him personally and he would have corrected me. He always says people make it too complicated. Just follow the diet until you quit getting results then adjust it.

[Legend]

I don't think its a mistake. I've seen the diet posted too many places that way plus I've emailed him personally and he would have corrected me. He always says people make it too complicated. Just follow the diet until you quit getting results then adjust it.

I have been a part of Dave's thread since he started it on MD, and know him personally....so I might have learned 1 or 2 things from him in the last 3 years.

Like I said, on Dave's example diet, he changed it

[Legend]

he has me eating 1/3 cup on the 200lb diet. I wonder if it should be 1/4 c


If you are following a diet Dave has personally set up for you, then your all good.

[gman]

I think that's right, because he made a few other slight changes to the online one.

[TUFF]

ok. i guess i need to make an adjustment.

it needs to be made more obvious so newbies to it can get it right the first time.

["Rodz"]

I don't think its a mistake. I've seen the diet posted too many places that way plus I've emailed him personally and he would have corrected me. He always says people make it too complicated. Just follow the diet until you quit getting results then adjust it.


You got it, live and learn, keep a journal and record the results, just like in Mall cop--observe and report, lol

[TUFF]

frosty i saw in the keto thread you took away peanut butter trying to eliminate omega 6 fat if i am correct. why is that? dave's dvd said you need a 50/50 ratio of 3's and 6's. i am using smart balance natty pb which is made with omega 3 flax. this should be ok right?
also if i change the egg meal around to less yolks what should i do to make up the fat?
it concerns me eating a dozen whole eggs everyday even though they are omega 3 eggs. dave said it wouldn't have a negative effect on my cholesterol but I would think there would be a better option.

[Frosty]

If you analyze the diet Dave puts up using peanut butter, it's nowhere near 1:1 ratio of omega-6 : omega-3. More like 4:1. That's why I prefer to use macadamia nuts/butter over peanut butter. Chicken already has plenty of omega-6 fats, and even omega-3 egg yolks contain a good amount. I also like higher doses of fish oil for this reason and more.

The flax in the peanut butter won't balance things. I'd avoid flax in peanut butter anyway....flax is way too sensitive to be in commercial peanut butters.

If you reduce the amount of whole eggs, replace the fat with NOTHING. The whole point was those meals were too high in fat. Eating egg yolks are not going to harm cholesterol levels. In fact I firmly believe omega-3 egg yolks are very healthy for you. It's just too much total fat per meal. Just lower the whole eggs and have another source of protein in there so you get your 50g per meal.

[TUFF]

do you think it makes a difference in how effective the diet is if you make the macros equal for each meal vs. having them not as long as the total for the day is the same?

[TUFF]

i am taking this also
-Omega-3 Fish Oil pills 1000mg 3x per day
-Evening Primrose Oil (Omega-6) 1300mg 2x per day

I've just been taking them meal 1 and 6.

[Frosty]

I don't think it'll really make that much of a difference but why not have them all about the same? This way they're interchangable and it's easier. But the totals were too high overall so you should reduce it anyway in some of the meals.

[TUFF]

the total should be 150 fat and 350 pro according to the .25 and .10 formula i should have 125 fat and 300 pro
that was also a guess on lbm
how would you set it up?

[Frosty]

Just work out each meal so it's 50g pro and about 20g fat.

Use this to help set it up. With a scale this is invaluable for putting together a diet:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

A quick pointer is cooked chicken breast is 161g for 50g pro, and 190g for beef.

[TUFF]

ok i would like to use wpi shakes for 2 meals. would you add mac nut oil to these instead of the flax natty pb? or what is another good choice to add to a shake?
are you counting the fat in the meat and then adding fat to get to 20g or add 20g additional to it?
with the chicken meal i add almonds
with the steak meal i add mac nut oil or evoo to my veggies
i guess i can add more whites to adjust the egg meal
maybe i will swap the second egg meal for more chicken and almonds


believe it or not it really helps getting all these questions answered.

[Frosty]

ok i would like to use wpi shakes for 2 meals. would you add mac nut oil to these instead of the flax natty pb? or what is another good choice to add to a shake?
are you counting the fat in the meat and then adding fat to get to 20g or add 20g additional to it?
with the chicken meal i add almonds
with the steak meal i add mac nut oil or evoo to my veggies
i guess i can add more whites to adjust the egg meal
maybe i will swap the second egg meal for more chicken and almonds


believe it or not it really helps getting all these questions answered.

1. Mac oil is fine to add to shakes. I like mac nuts, too.
2. Yes, count the fat in the meat. For example a trimmed chicken breast would be 6g, plus your fish oil, then add additional fat from mac nuts/oil/butter, almonds, etc. Real quick to figure out how much, mac nuts are 76% fat by weight and almonds about 50%. So if you need 12 more grams to hit your 20, just do 12/0.76=g of mac nuts, or 12/0.5=g almonds
3. Watch fat on beef. You likely don't need additional fats depending on the cut of beef.
4. You can add egg whites and subtract some yolks if you want. The second egg meal replaced with chicken might be a good idea. Eggs are a stimulating protein and are faster digesting than chicken. Chicken may help you sleep better and keep more aminos in the blood during sleep.