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View Full Version : What bodypart needs work? Help found here.



esplendido
03-29-2009, 09:49 PM
Everyone has a lagging bodypart. Talk about yours...ask for help....or tell us how you've managed to bring yours up.

Jello
03-29-2009, 09:55 PM
My lower back has always been the slowest to respond. I have not been able to find a good work out that is not hard on it. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong:(

esplendido
03-29-2009, 10:15 PM
Have your tried doing hypers for a month to get blood flow into the erectors and get them to start growing? After a month, hold weight as you do them until you work up to a 45lb plate, doing 3 sets to failure.....then add deads for real growth.

qbanfreak90
03-30-2009, 10:30 PM
Chest.. my shoulders take over ... i need my upper chest to grow.. i need help

esplendido
03-30-2009, 11:38 PM
Chest.. my shoulders take over ... i need my upper chest to grow.. i need help

Incline flies, heavy (6-8 rep weight)...not real wide...but as deep as you can get.

Jello
03-30-2009, 11:54 PM
Have your tried doing hypers for a month to get blood flow into the erectors and get them to start growing? After a month, hold weight as you do them until you work up to a 45lb plate, doing 3 sets to failure.....then add deads for real growth.

Thanks, I'll give that a shot.

zander
03-31-2009, 06:35 AM
Im taking the next 12 months to bring up arms and calves to balance out more .... rest of me is ok really ...

Im using the giant set approach 10 exercises light/medium weights 10-15 reps to failure at the end exercise and probably 4 -5 sets ... once or twice a week insulin and 200gm carbs during workout to blow them right out. Im perpetualy on keto mon- sat and sunday off so lean anyway ... should do the trick , fingers crossed.

oh Im 40 .... :D

esplendido
03-31-2009, 10:32 AM
Im taking the next 12 months to bring up arms and calves to balance out more .... rest of me is ok really ...

Im using the giant set approach 10 exercises light/medium weights 10-15 reps to failure at the end exercise and probably 4 -5 sets ... once or twice a week insulin and 200gm carbs during workout to blow them right out. Im perpetualy on keto mon- sat and sunday off so lean anyway ... should do the trick , fingers crossed.

oh Im 40 .... :D

How do you mean "bring up"? Do you lack size? shape? Light/medium weight at high reps does not add size. You have to lift heavy in the 6-8 rep range for size (with the exception of doing HIT). You get a nice pump from giant sets, which can make it seem like you're growing.

The thing about your insulin use and bringing 'up' a bodypart is that all your bodyparts are going to come up and the arms and calves, even if they grow, will still be out of proportion with your overall physique. I'm saying that, even though you're training the arms/calves harder than your other bodyparts, the insulin use is going to equalize that growth throughout the body and you'll still have a balance issue.

It's actually better to dial all your other bodyparts back to a maintenance level of training and push the weak parts hard in the off season, using AAS only.

Running Rebel
03-31-2009, 12:47 PM
My arms. Overall they need to be thicker, but especially my triceps. I hear so much conflicting methods on arm training though. Some say they're a small body part so they only need like 2 exercise a week, others say you need to work the crap out of them, doing 16-20 sets per workout. For triceps I used to do mostly do skull crushers, overhead dumbells and push downs. But lately i've been doing workouts based around close grip bench press and I've moved my hand grip inward a little on regular bench press. For bis, I added in hammer curls to try to get the brachial muscle bigger to see if that helps the appearance of overall thickness.

My lats lag thickness too. I've never done weighted pull ups though, so I think that might be were the secret is. Even in off season when my back does get pretty thick, the lats still lag but I think this is genetics. My lats are like Kai greene's in the way they sit kind of high.

esplendido
03-31-2009, 02:48 PM
My arms. Overall they need to be thicker, but especially my triceps. I hear so much conflicting methods on arm training though. Some say they're a small body part so they only need like 2 exercise a week, others say you need to work the crap out of them, doing 16-20 sets per workout. For triceps I used to do mostly do skull crushers, overhead dumbells and push downs. But lately i've been doing workouts based around close grip bench press and I've moved my hand grip inward a little on regular bench press. For bis, I added in hammer curls to try to get the brachial muscle bigger to see if that helps the appearance of overall thickness.

My lats lag thickness too. I've never done weighted pull ups though, so I think that might be were the secret is. Even in off season when my back does get pretty thick, the lats still lag but I think this is genetics. My lats are like Kai greene's in the way they sit kind of high.
There is a direct link between lat development and arm development...especially bi's and lats. The Biceps are the weak link in back development because they need to be able to contract at 100% during pulling movements that work back. If your bi's are weak, you won't be able to build a thick, wide lat spread.

Concentrating on bringing up your bi's will by default help bring up your back.

Triceps are probably the easiest muscle group to build....and the most neglected. If I were you, and if you are not doing this already, I would give tri's their own workout...or at least arms by themselves. If you're combining bench or shoulders with tri's, you won't be able to give them the concentration and effort needed to bring them up.

Building tri's is no different from building any other muscle. You need to move increasingly heavier weight over the course of the building phase....and you need to lift heavy enough weight that 6-8 reps are the max reps to failure. The tri's can take a lot of work.....moreso than the bi's. I mean work as in load. Let me recommend a routine for you. Try it for 2 months and see what happens. It will include only 3 different exercises at 3 sets each.

Warm up well on the triceps pushdown....2 sets of 20 reps semi-easy.

Triceps pushdown: 3 sets of the following....
Set 1: 10 reps at 80% max
Set 2: 8 reps at 90% max
Set 3: to failure at max weight (max indicates a weight you can push down 3-4 times)

Dips: 3 sets of the following...
Set 1: Normal grip, weighted to where you can get only 10 reps
Set 2: Reverse grip, add 25lbs, go to failure
Set 3: Normal grip, add another 25lbs, go to failure

Triceps kickback with cable (1 arm at a time): 3 sets of the following...
Set 1: (slightly bent over) with weight that allows only 10 reps...fully lock arm in down position on each rep
Set 2: add 10lbs, to failure
set 3: same as Set 2.

If you are not fully pumped and burning after that workout, you're not using enough weight. You will grow! Every other workout, attempt to increase the load (weight) on each exercise....even if it means pinning a 5lb weight to the stack.

Let me know how it works for you.

Running Rebel
04-01-2009, 12:55 AM
Alright, I'll try that. But no close grip bench or skull crushers added in there everyonce in a while? I'm definitely willing to try something new, its just every single thing I read about tricep mass stresses you need these exercises.

esplendido
04-01-2009, 01:22 AM
Alright, I'll try that. But no close grip bench or skull crushers added in there everyonce in a while? I'm definitely willing to try something new, its just every single thing I read about tricep mass stresses you need these exercises.

Push downs replace skull crushers. I don't believe in close grip benches for 2 reasons; 1) Dips do a better job, and 2) your chest is still engaged on close grips, and unless you're doing tri's with chest, you're not giving your chest enough recovery doing close grips between chest workouts.

It's all about efficiency. Do the most work in the least possible sets to allow for maximum growth and recovery. HIT probably addresses this issue the best, although HIT training opens one up to more injury possibilities.

Will your tri's grow with skull crushers and close grip bench? Absolutely! 100's of BBers swear by them and have great triceps. Again, though, I subscribe to being efficient, and I have 30 years under my belt working out efficiency.

BUT! We're talking about YOUR problem, and I prescribed something tailored to it. When you get things rolling and feel you've brought your triceps up sufficiently, switch to whatever exercises suit you.

SCRUBS
04-01-2009, 12:00 PM
One of the things that has worked well for me is, heavy drop sets. Use enough weight to only get 4 reps (like esplendido stated), then, drop some weight to complete 4 to 6 more reps, so the rep range for the set is 8 to 10 reps per set.

qbanfreak90
04-01-2009, 12:01 PM
Incline flies, heavy (6-8 rep weight)...not real wide...but as deep as you can get.

thanx im going to try that, i also my triceps... specially the long head... my lateralhead takes over alot when i do over head movements i feel it more there.

esplendido
04-01-2009, 12:24 PM
thanx im going to try that, i also my triceps... specially the long head... my lateralhead takes over alot when i do over head movements i feel it more there.

The flying movement takes the tri's out of it except at the very top. To overcome that, squeeze your pecs at the top of the movement before starting the next rep. Make sure you feel your pecs stretch at the bottom of the move and try to stretch them more every rep.

rodneyl
04-01-2009, 01:04 PM
My biggest need improvement area (besides my whole body lol) is quads, hams and my bicep is short. I would like to build up the area near my elbow. thanks

gman
04-01-2009, 01:07 PM
I have a question on hammies as well.

I have heard/read that if you go too heavy on SLDL's, they become an ass exercise and that we should keep the weight moderate in order to make it more of a hammie exercise.

Is this true or should we go heavy as hell on these as well?

esplendido
04-01-2009, 01:14 PM
I have a question on hammies as well.

I have heard/read that if you go too heavy on SLDL's, they become an ass exercise and that we should keep the weight moderate in order to make it more of a hammie exercise.

Is this true or should we go heavy as hell on these as well?

Heavy.....and what's wrong with developing your ass?

gman
04-01-2009, 01:17 PM
Hammies are what I want first, I want to make sure they are as non-neglected as possible. I got plenty of ass from deads...lol

esplendido
04-01-2009, 02:18 PM
It's impossible to overdevelop the glutes. Strong glutes come with strong legs.

gman
04-01-2009, 02:20 PM
I am going to reemphasize my legs this spring and summer. Thanks for the help. I will go heavier in the SLDL's

qbanfreak90
04-05-2009, 02:55 PM
ok so what should I do for my triceps... long head is lacking size

red barraca
04-05-2009, 03:11 PM
for me i need more width in my back

esplendido
04-05-2009, 04:37 PM
ok so what should I do for my triceps... long head is lacking size

Heavy pushdowns and/or skull crushers. The pushing moves like dips and close grip bench work the outer head equally with the long heads. The "curling moves" like pushdowns and skull crushers focus on the long heads.

Finish of with 1 armed cable kickbacks, locking at the bottom of the motion. Use weight that only allows 8 reps max on all sets.

esplendido
04-05-2009, 04:46 PM
for me i need more width in my back

Red.....watch the video in the thread "sqeeeeeze" in Muscle Central forums. Correct form is demonstrated there. That's the first key.

Second is heavy weight. You need to do sets with weight that prevents more than 8 reps,

Suggested routine:

Pulldowns: warm up with 15 reps

1 set with weight that allows only 10 reps
1 set with weight that allows only 8 reps
1 set with weight that allows only 6 reps

Bent over Barbell rows (to just below sternum)

3 sets with weight that allows only 6-8 reps

Seated Cable rows - narrow grip

3 sets, 8 reps......SQUEEZE back when hands are pulled all the way in.

That should do the trick over 4-6 months....increase the weight a little every 3 weeks.

Work back only once a week through this time.

chris d
04-05-2009, 05:42 PM
Esplendido, I have much respect for your 30 years experience as for my self I have 26 but I will tell you for a fact that all that 6 to 8 rep heavy work, if training hard and heavy enough will catch most people in the end. I myself will guarntee that giant sets the milos way will make you grow! most people will never make it through this type of work out but it does work it is not somthing you should do all the time but 8 weeks or so of it will shock the muscle guarnteed. As for heavy training, I personally know some of the former top pro's and some of them trained extremley light 10 to 20 reps on everything and these boys were beast. Just goes to show with the right drugs, sound nutrition and create a stimulas you will grow, keep up the good work with the forums I like what you have to say and value your advice.

red barraca
04-05-2009, 08:08 PM
Red.....watch the video in the thread "sqeeeeeze" in Muscle Central forums. Correct form is demonstrated there. That's the first key.

Second is heavy weight. You need to do sets with weight that prevents more than 8 reps,

Suggested routine:

Pulldowns: warm up with 15 reps

1 set with weight that allows only 10 reps
1 set with weight that allows only 8 reps
1 set with weight that allows only 6 reps

Bent over Barbell rows (to just below sternum)

3 sets with weight that allows only 6-8 reps

Seated Cable rows - narrow grip

3 sets, 8 reps......SQUEEZE back when hands are pulled all the way in.

That should do the trick over 4-6 months....increase the weight a little every 3 weeks.

Work back only once a week through this time.

thanks man!i will always be a student of the game.

Mass Construction
04-05-2009, 08:57 PM
Esplendido,

any idea on how to put more size on this area in the bottom of the arm and make it wider?!
http://i87.servimg.com/u/f87/12/57/71/12/the_ro11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=64&u=12577112)
http://forums.rxmuscle.com/%5Burl=http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=63&u=12577112%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i87.servimg.com/u/f87/12/57/71/12/the_ro10.jpg%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D

gman
04-05-2009, 09:00 PM
taking a shot here, reverse bb curls and heavy hammers

Mufasa
04-05-2009, 09:26 PM
Esplendido,

any idea on how to put more size on this area in the bottom of the arm and make it wider?!
http://i87.servimg.com/u/f87/12/57/71/12/the_ro11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=64&u=12577112)
http://forums.rxmuscle.com/%5Burl=http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=63&u=12577112%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i87.servimg.com/u/f87/12/57/71/12/the_ro10.jpg%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D


I'll take a shot too...

You'll have to have "The Rock's" Mom and Dad! (That is "The Rock", isn't it?)

When you start talking about things like insertion points and the shape of muscle bellies; that's genetics.

(Just my take!)



Mufasa

red barraca
04-05-2009, 09:55 PM
i respect esplendido,and this is his thread.iam with gman,also try alternating curl in a full supination plams facing behide you.

esplendido
04-06-2009, 01:40 AM
Esplendido,

any idea on how to put more size on this area in the bottom of the arm and make it wider?!
http://i87.servimg.com/u/f87/12/57/71/12/the_ro11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=64&u=12577112)
http://forums.rxmuscle.com/%5Burl=http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=63&u=12577112%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i87.servimg.com/u/f87/12/57/71/12/the_ro10.jpg%5B/img%5D%5B/url%5D

First, let me say that anyone's response is welcome. I know a lot about training, but I respect the knowledge of others, too. Don't be afraid to post your recommendations if you all feel like you have something to offer. If I don't like it, I'll ban you! (just kidding :p ).

Genetics does play a part in arm development. If you have a short biceps, you can't make it longer. Short, meaning when it's flexed, it comes down on the arm 1 or 2 fingers width from the forearm.

Width, or thickness is a product of maturity and strength training. Too many guys use too little weight to develop their bi's. There is NO NEED to do so-called shaping exercises. Usually, those exercises require too little weight to grow the biceps anyway. The pump alone is not indicative of muscle growth. Shape is determined by genetics and a fully grown biceps. The biceps is TWO muscles (bi) which act in tandem with one another. Both will flex together regardless of the move you use. Supinating the dumbells, for example, on the lift up on DB curls works only to create the greatest contraction BOTH muscles can make at the top. Hammer curls, in which the DB's are held static in an up and down position, do NOT cause the greatest contraction the bi's can produce. The muscles remain elongated at the top of the move. Hammers work the forearms more directly than supinated curling.

So, muscle 'width' at its insertion (see Arnold's bi in PI where he flexed it straight armed after curling in one of the workout scenes) has to do with how big the muscle is from hypertrophy from training. Where it inserts near the forearm is genetic.

I recommend a 6-10 rep range for growth, specifically 6-8 reps, where the weight is heavy enough to cause you to fail between 6-8 reps.

I also believe in using both barbells and dumbbells for biceps. To bring that thickness up, try the following:

Warm up with alt DB curls, light weight, 20 reps.

3 sets Alt DB curls: set 1 with a weight that allows no more than 10 reps
set 2 with a weight that allows only 8 reps
set 3 the same as set 2

Cambered barbell curls: 3 sets of 6-8 reps (again, weight that you fail on the 6-8 rep.)

Scott (preacher curl) machine: 3 sets of 12-15 reps (now here, I'm asking you to work on slow twitch muscle fiber because the biceps is one of the smallest muscles in the body, so it is advantageous to build both fast and slow twitch muscle fibers to their max for max size). Use weight that causes you to fail at the 12-15 rep range.

Mass Construction
04-06-2009, 02:11 AM
First, let me say that anyone's response is welcome. I know a lot about training, but I respect the knowledge of others, too. Don't be afraid to post your recommendations if you all feel like you have something to offer. If I don't like it, I'll ban you! (just kidding :p ).

Genetics does play a part in arm development. If you have a short biceps, you can't make it longer. Short, meaning when it's flexed, it comes down on the arm 1 or 2 fingers width from the forearm.

Width, or thickness is a product of maturity and strength training. Too many guys use too little weight to develop their bi's. There is NO NEED to do so-called shaping exercises. Usually, those exercises require too little weight to grow the biceps anyway. The pump alone is not indicative of muscle growth. Shape is determined by genetics and a fully grown biceps. The biceps is TWO muscles (bi) which act in tandem with one another. Both will flex together regardless of the move you use. Supinating the dumbells, for example, on the lift up on DB curls works only to create the greatest contraction BOTH muscles can make at the top. Hammer curls, in which the DB's are held static in an up and down position, do NOT cause the greatest contraction the bi's can produce. The muscles remain elongated at the top of the move. Hammers work the forearms more directly than supinated curling.

So, muscle 'width' at its insertion (see Arnold's bi in PI where he flexed it straight armed after curling in one of the workout scenes) has to do with how big the muscle is from hypertrophy from training. Where it inserts near the forearm is genetic.

I recommend a 6-10 rep range for growth, specifically 6-8 reps, where the weight is heavy enough to cause you to fail between 6-8 reps.

I also believe in using both barbells and dumbbells for biceps. To bring that thickness up, try the following:

Warm up with alt DB curls, light weight, 20 reps.

3 sets Alt DB curls: set 1 with a weight that allows no more than 10 reps
set 2 with a weight that allows only 8 reps
set 3 the same as set 2

Cambered barbell curls: 3 sets of 6-8 reps (again, weight that you fail on the 6-8 rep.)

Scott (preacher curl) machine: 3 sets of 12-15 reps (now here, I'm asking you to work on slow twitch muscle fiber because the biceps is one of the smallest muscles in the body, so it is advantageous to build both fast and slow twitch muscle fibers to their max for max size). Use weight that causes you to fail at the 12-15 rep range.
thx guys, and thank you esplendido;)

tdcoach
04-06-2009, 10:38 PM
I need more seperation in my legs. I am 6', 202 lbs, 48 years old I have been hitting the hack squats any other suggestions

esplendido
04-06-2009, 11:47 PM
I need more seperation in my legs. I am 6', 202 lbs, 48 years old I have been hitting the hack squats any other suggestions

Do you want separation or size? Separation is directly related to diet. Obviously, more size can make for deeper separation. Your photo tells me you need both.

I find that masters competitors usually justify a lack of cut dryness because of age. We also tend to neglect legs, many times because of knee trouble. I have fit both descriptions in my past.

If you can squat, it's the prime exercise for building size. Go heavy and deep. If you can't squat, do heavy leg presses as deep as possible. To bring out the lower quad heads, heavy leg extensions.

Walking is the best exercise for burning fat. In contest prep, I end up doing 3 hours of daily walking to burn off that stubborn last fat that masters tend to hold. Clen and T3 will help to burn fat while sparing muscle.

tdcoach
04-07-2009, 08:14 AM
Esplendido,
Thanks for your reply. I have had 3 knee surgeries and have several bulging discs in my back. I do not use these as excuses to not squat. My last set is usually 405lbs for 4 reps. Do you think I would benefit from hitting legs twice a week? I am currently on a 5 day on 2 day off split.

chris d
04-07-2009, 08:38 AM
I need more seperation in my legs. I am 6', 202 lbs, 48 years old I have been hitting the hack squats any other suggestions
Coach, what is surprising to me is that in your picture you were hard as nails,stands to reason that the legs should have been as hard but were not even if they are lacking in size. I have seen many guys with small quads but were so hard and seperated, it really made a difference in the overall look and made you not focus on their size. I would suggest next contest prep start incorperating some higher rep sets such as 15 to 25 and focus on squeezing the muscle on every rep this seems to get the quads to grow and get deeper seperation. I guarntee you your quads will take on a more complete look. Hope this helps you.

esplendido
04-07-2009, 09:21 AM
Esplendido,
Thanks for your reply. I have had 3 knee surgeries and have several bulging discs in my back. I do not use these as excuses to not squat. My last set is usually 405lbs for 4 reps. Do you think I would benefit from hitting legs twice a week? I am currently on a 5 day on 2 day off split.

WOW! How in the world do you squat??? Ouch!

I wouldn't do 2 days a week of a workout that obviously isn't building mass now. Somehow, you have to overload the legs greater than you are presently. What does your leg workout look like?

tdcoach
04-07-2009, 11:14 AM
WOW! How in the world do you squat??? Ouch!

I wouldn't do 2 days a week of a workout that obviously isn't building mass now. Somehow, you have to overload the legs greater than you are presently. What does your leg workout look like?


My leg workout looks like this

smith machine squats
135 x 20
225 x 12
275 x 8
305 x 6
365 x 4
405 x 4
hack squats
225 x 12 3 sets

leg extensions
175 x15
185 x 12
205 x 8 for 2 sets with a 15 second hold at the end

standing leg curls
110 x 15 for 3 sets

FloridaMuscle
04-07-2009, 11:40 AM
Esplendido,

You mentioned walking as your cardio of choice. Do you perform cardio off season as well?

esplendido
04-07-2009, 11:52 AM
My leg workout looks like this

smith machine squats
135 x 20
225 x 12
275 x 8
305 x 6
365 x 4
405 x 4
hack squats
225 x 12 3 sets

leg extensions
175 x15
185 x 12
205 x 8 for 2 sets with a 15 second hold at the end

standing leg curls
110 x 15 for 3 sets

Here's what I'm guessing: Your squat work looks good on the surface, but I see you holding back on the mid-weight to save energy for the 405 squats. I'm guessing you can actually squat 305 for 10-12 reps fairly easily, and you see it as a progressive warm-up. Start your WORK at 305 (did you mean 315?) and do as many as you can before collapsing. Do the same with 365....I predict you can do at least 8 at 365. Yes, you might be too burnt to get 4 at 405....or maybe not. FORCE the reps out.

The legs are extremely adaptive. It can seem as though you're pushing them when they really have a lot more to give. It's typically your stomach that can't take it!

Drop the hacks and do 3 sets of leg press at a weight that makes you puke at 12-15 reps. You can't believe the pump you can get that way. And I mean absolute failure on the last rep. You need a spotter!

Why pyramid the leg extensions. Your legs are plenty warm. Hit the top weight from the git-go and rep until the pain forces you to quit. 10-15 reps/set.

Leg curls look good. After the squats and leg press, your hams will be worked well and the curls are a good finishing move. You might alternate curls with stiff leg deads every 3rd workout.

Let me know how it goes!

esplendido
04-07-2009, 11:54 AM
Esplendido,

You mentioned walking as your cardio of choice. Do you perform cardio off season as well?

NO! I need all the calories I can shove in to put on weight. I'm a very tall ectomorph. However, if you are endomorphic or mesomorphic, I recommend cardio 3xweek at 30 minutes each. Walking only.

DR.BB
04-07-2009, 12:09 PM
Lots of good info on this masters forum. Anyone have advice for someone with horrible calves?

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 12:13 PM
TDcoach. Have you done front squats? You also don't do leg presses. Maybe try one workout with the exercises you're doing and a second with Leg Presses, Front Squats and lunges. An A and B workout. You will also then be doing all the major quad exercises. If you vary the rep schemes, keep the seys down and bust ass, I can't see how this wouldn't work in increasing your quad muscularity.

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 12:20 PM
NO! I need all the calories I can shove in to put on weight. I'm a very tall ectomorph. However, if you are endomorphic or mesomorphic, I recommend cardio 3xweek at 30 minutes each. Walking only.

No wonder you can eat more calories than me and lose! Lol. I don't have an ectomorphic metabolism. I used to think I was ectomorph, but I keep being told I'm almost all mesomorph. 30 min 3 times a week for cardio sounds pretty good for most. I didn't do it for several months because I was sick of it. How do you like biking? I seem to enjoy that more and do it longer..

gman
04-07-2009, 12:23 PM
I am doing almost 8 weeks of Esplendido's cardio per week right now! lol

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 12:24 PM
Lots of good info on this masters forum. Anyone have advice for someone with horrible calves?

Well, what have you already tried for them? Note- if your answer doesn't include working up to 500 lbs or more on standing calf raises and 1000 lb toe presses- in strict- not bouncing form, Go back to the gym and do them!

esplendido
04-07-2009, 01:06 PM
No wonder you can eat more calories than me and lose! Lol. I don't have an ectomorphic metabolism. I used to think I was ectomorph, but I keep being told I'm almost all mesomorph. 30 min 3 times a week for cardio sounds pretty good for most. I didn't do it for several months because I was sick of it. How do you like biking? I seem to enjoy that more and do it longer..

Biking is great.....for calves. You ever see a professional cyclist's calves? They can be 5'-9", 140lbs and have 18" calves!!!!

BUT, biking works the quads, too, and I think drains them of valuable glycogen needed for leg workouts.

gman
04-07-2009, 01:16 PM
You are right Rick. I got a new bike and was riding in a group ride a couple of years back and everyone asked me how long I had been riding. I said "about 2 weeks." They all said I had bicyclist calves.

esplendido
04-07-2009, 01:25 PM
Lots of good info on this masters forum. Anyone have advice for someone with horrible calves?
Calves....the universal black hole!!!! I have a very long tibia. I get most of my height from that length. I'd be a great 6'-1" BBer if my lower leg was normal length...LOL!

I have long calf muscles because of it. It's very difficult to put size on long muscle. This is why shorter BBer's do so well in the sport....short muscle to pack a lot of size on. So I know something about bringing calves up.

The calf needs a variety of work....and I mean WORK to build. You won't get past genetics as far as length, but you can put lot's of width on them.

Per my post above, notice professional cyclists' calves. They're huge and cut! Put 100 miles a day on a bike and you'll have great calves. You'll also have 15" arms because the amount of calories expended will never allow muscular hypertophy in othe bodyparts.

You have to hit calves both heavy AND with high rep moves. You have to do standing and seated calf work to get both heads to pop.

I like to start with heavy standing calf work. I do the entire stack on our machine (495lbs) plus 2-30lb DB's on top of the stack and rip out 4 sets to failure.....usually 8-10 reps. I go deep at the bottom and high at the top, hanging on the machine by my toes.

I follow that with 3 sets of seated with weight that allows only 10-12 reps to failure.

THEN, go back to the standing calf machine (or leg press, if no standing machine) and use weight equal to your bodyweight and rep out until your calves want to bitch-slap you! Do 3 sets that way. If you can walk out of the gym normally, do 2 more sets like that!

Calves are one muscle that can take the work. They can be worked 2x week, when every other bodypart only needs once a week.

Try that and see how they respond after a couple of months.

My calves are only 17" around, but that's up from 15" 4 years ago, and they're still growing. If you have naturally large calves already, just the high rep stuff is necessary to develop them into a great set!

gman
04-07-2009, 01:39 PM
I have good calves already, should I work them, or worry about the rest of me catching up to them first?

My chiro who is a bodybuilder, told me a couple of years back to stop working my calves at all and put my time into my weak areas, particularly my shoulders. I have not done a calf raise in over a year.

esplendido
04-07-2009, 01:42 PM
I have good calves already, should I work them, or worry about the rest of me catching up to them first?

My chiro who is a bodybuilder, told me a couple of years back to stop working my calves at all and put my time into my weak areas, particularly my shoulders. I have not done a calf raise in over a year.

High reps as I outlined above. You want them to be SHREDDED! Size alone isn't enough (or so says my wife :D )

gman
04-07-2009, 01:44 PM
I will start doing them when I am not doing all this f8cking cardio in the morning.

esplendido
04-07-2009, 01:45 PM
BTW, my avi is a shot from my first competition in 17 years....May 2007, and I had torn my left triceps from the elbow the previous September. I just wanted to point out that you can work around/thru injuries and still maintain a great physique!

gman
04-07-2009, 01:47 PM
Never would have suspected, and still even can barely see what you are talking about. It's hardly visible that your left tri is a little smaller.

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 02:02 PM
Biking is great.....for calves. You ever see a professional cyclist's calves? They can be 5'-9", 140lbs and have 18" calves!!!!

BUT, biking works the quads, too, and I think drains them of valuable glycogen needed for leg workouts.

Hmmm. Interesting. I used to ride my bike to school 2 miles each way as a teen. I wonder if that's why I started with 16 1/2 calves. Or was it 15 1/2? I don't know but they were much bigger than my arms. I think my thighs started at 22 1/2. Anyway, I have been splitting my cardio up to avoid overtraining any muscles in the way you mentioned. I've been doing 20 min of incline treadmill about 3mph then 25 min of recumbent bike- not the vertical. I don't think it will overwork my calves, like you said, they can take a lot of work, and I get little if any quad pump doing this. The fun part is going to come when I have to increase the cardio. I don't think I'm there yet as its still working. Whatcha think?

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:06 PM
Hmmm. Interesting. I used to ride my bike to school 2 miles each way as a teen. I wonder if that's why I started with 16 1/2 calves. Or was it 15 1/2? I don't know but they were much bigger than my arms. I think my thighs started at 22 1/2. Anyway, I have been splitting my cardio up to avoid overtraining any muscles in the way you mentioned. I've been doing 20 min of incline treadmill about 3mph then 25 min of recumbent bike- not the vertical. I don't think it will overwork my calves, like you said, they can take a lot of work, and I get little if any quad pump doing this. The fun part is going to come when I have to increase the cardio. I don't think I'm there yet as its still working. Whatcha think?

I think if you're losing 1-2 pounds a week, you're on track with what you're doing. When the weight loss slows, that's when you up the cardio.
I hope you're keeping your HR under 130?

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:08 PM
Never would have suspected, and still even can barely see what you are talking about. It's hardly visible that your left tri is a little smaller.
It was smaller. AND, the rerattachment made it a bit shorter, too. It's still a little shorter, but looks better than the right tri in a side tri shot because of it!

I was back benching full strength by March, just 6 months after the reattachment.

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 02:12 PM
Thanks. Yeah I don't like to go above 125. 118-125 is my preferred range. If I'm doing about 3- 3.5 mph on a 1.5 to incline that puts me in that range. On the bike, I get up to level 9 to put me in that range. I don't know if I'm normal, lol.

gman
04-07-2009, 02:16 PM
I have to put it on 3.5 and incline 8 to get to 110 bpm, usually it stays around 105. I am holding onto the handles, which tends to help the bpm be lower, but still.

Dave told me to walk flat, but when I did that, my rate was only in the upper 80's.

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 02:16 PM
BTW, my avi is a shot from my first competition in 17 years....May 2007, and I had torn my left triceps from the elbow the previous September. I just wanted to point out that you can work around/thru injuries and still maintain a great physique!

You're right, if you hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't have noticied it. What really got my attention though was your back- great traps, and your color- looked great there! What did you use?

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:18 PM
I have to put it on 3.5 and incline 8 to get to 110 bpm, usually it stays around 105. I am holding onto the handles, which tends to help the bpm be lower, but still.

Dave told me to walk flat, but when I did that, my rate was only in the upper 80's.

Walk flat at a speed that raises your HR. 4.5mph? Inclines work the thighs too much.

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 02:26 PM
Walk flat at a speed that raises your HR. 4.5mph? Inclines work the thighs too much.

I have to jog at anything over 4.. Lol. I was never a fast runner, I guess I'm a slow walker too, lol.

gman
04-07-2009, 02:29 PM
I just need to get out of shape again so my heart rate goes up easier! lol

Seriously, a bicycling coach told me its because my heart is real strong, so it has to be worked harder to get it to beat faster. Not fair really!

I will try to speed up the machine to 4.5 and see if I can walk that fast without having to run. Part of the reason I inclined it was I read it burns more calories to walk up a hill.

Why can't I just eat less and do no cardio?

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:36 PM
You're right, if you hadn't mentioned it, I wouldn't have noticied it. What really got my attention though was your back- great traps, and your color- looked great there! What did you use?

I used Pro Tan. Never again! It ran when I sweat during prejudging. I've used Jan Tana since, spray applied at the shows and it's the BOMB! She has a new product out that takes one app and just before prejudging. I'm going to try it next.

You know, I do shrugs...usually 3 sets of 10-12 with 405, but it's the front DB raises that really built my traps!

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:37 PM
I just need to get out of shape again so my heart rate goes up easier! lol

Seriously, a bicycling coach told me its because my heart is real strong, so it has to be worked harder to get it to beat faster. Not fair really!

I will try to speed up the machine to 4.5 and see if I can walk that fast without having to run. Part of the reason I inclined it was I read it burns more calories to walk up a hill.

Why can't I just eat less and do no cardio?

Eat less, lose muscle! Keep your calories and lose the fat with monotonous cardio!

gman
04-07-2009, 02:40 PM
but isn't 100 minutes a day a bit much?

It will get easier when I can split it 8 days from now.

What do you think of my plan to walk 50-60 minutes at a brisk pace to the Y, down a protein shake, work out, shower, walk across the parking lot to work, and then walk back home at the end of the day (once tax season is over). Is that a good substitute for treadmill? (Please say yes)

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 02:43 PM
Walking an hour right before a workout? .. I don't think that's considered optimal, but do what works for you.

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 02:48 PM
I used Pro Tan. Never again! It ran when I sweat during prejudging. I've used Jan Tana since, spray applied at the shows and it's the BOMB! She has a new product out that takes one app and just before prejudging. I'm going to try it next.

You know, I do shrugs...usually 3 sets of 10-12 with 405, but it's the front DB raises that really built my traps!

I've had that problem with ProTan. When I start to sweat, it starts to run. I've ended up using Dream Tan for a quick fix. This year, I'm tanning way earlier to get a better base, then getting a spray tan the day before- they use Jan Tana. I saw the spray tans last year and they looked great- my wife said- you're doing that next year!

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:52 PM
but isn't 100 minutes a day a bit much?

It will get easier when I can split it 8 days from now.

What do you think of my plan to walk 50-60 minutes at a brisk pace to the Y, down a protein shake, work out, shower, walk across the parking lot to work, and then walk back home at the end of the day (once tax season is over). Is that a good substitute for treadmill? (Please say yes)

Walking outside is great. Walking before the workout is a no-no.

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:53 PM
I was walking 180 minutes a day 4 weeks out thru contest. Split it into 2-90 minute sessions.....ouside.

gman
04-07-2009, 02:54 PM
What would be the minimum rest between the walk and the lifting? I can always walk really early to my office and eat my breakfast while filling out paperwork or something, and then stroll over and lift.

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:56 PM
What would be the minimum rest between the walk and the lifting? I can always walk really early to my office and eat my breakfast while filling out paperwork or something, and then stroll over and lift.
It's best to walk first thing in the a.m. before eating, then do the second split an hour or later after your workout. 12 hours between cardio sessions is best.

gman
04-07-2009, 02:56 PM
I was walking 180 minutes a day 4 weeks out thru contest. Split it into 2-90 minute sessions.....ouside.

I know it's bad toward the end since there is hardly any fat left to burn up and it's stubborn, but I am 20+% bf and doing 100 a day with little effect, and am really dreading what I will be doing 4 weeks out to get from 7% to 4-5%!

I see some 4 hour cardio days in my future. Whatever it takes.

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:58 PM
I know it's bad toward the end since there is hardly any fat left to burn up and it's stubborn, but I am 20+% bf and doing 100 a day with little effect, and am really dreading what I will be doing 4 weeks out to get from 7% to 4-5%!

You aren't on the right protocol to get to 4-5% at our age. 6% would be very good! Anyway, it's not about % of BF. It's about what the mirror shows!

esplendido
04-07-2009, 02:59 PM
BTW....don't you have some taxes to do????.....LOL!

gman
04-07-2009, 02:59 PM
It's best to walk first thing in the a.m. before eating, then do the second split an hour or later after your workout. 12 hours between cardio sessions is best.

I would be able to split them by 12 hours, but the lifting will have to be in the morning unless I am prepared to get a divorce! lol

gman
04-07-2009, 03:00 PM
BTW....don't you have some taxes to do????.....LOL!

I really should, but I am burned out!

FloridaMuscle
04-07-2009, 04:00 PM
NO! I need all the calories I can shove in to put on weight. I'm a very tall ectomorph. However, if you are endomorphic or mesomorphic, I recommend cardio 3xweek at 30 minutes each. Walking only.

Thank you!

musclejl
04-11-2009, 11:37 AM
I always had problems getting cuts on the shoulder [like a baseball shape].

I guess what am looking for is the CUT between the deltoid and arm.
Also had problems with BACK, just like everybody else.
Would also like to have my muscles become thicker/dense, don't know how to go about that.
Sorry for some many questions, HELP if you can.
JL

esplendido
04-11-2009, 04:27 PM
I always had problems getting cuts on the shoulder [like a baseball shape].

I guess what am looking for is the CUT between the deltoid and arm.
Also had problems with BACK, just like everybody else.
Would also like to have my muscles become thicker/dense, don't know how to go about that.
Sorry for some many questions, HELP if you can.
JL

JL,

That cut between the shoulder and arm is a diet thing. All cuts are. However, growing the lateral deltoid head will make that cut seem deeper. Many lifters seem to think that pressing movements are what grow shoulders, but those are complex movements that engage the triceps quite a bit and take away from isolating the delts.

Flying motions are best for building massive shoulders. Unfortunately, many bber's use them as "shaping" movements, whatever the hell "shaping" is. (I don't believe in shaping exercises because shape is genetic). Heavy lateral DB flies, side flies, and rear delt flies build delts along with pressing moves. The flies put the stress directly on the deltoids. Heavy is any weight that you can just complete 8-10 reps with. You have to keep the elbows bent slightly and parallel with the DB at the top of the movement. I don't believe in going higher than parallel with the shoulders because it is in that position that the muscle is most stressed.

Density is achieved in combination of time and lifting heavy. Muscle density is what many consider "muscle maturity". If you "don't lift no heavy-ass weight", you're not going to develop density. If you can't get the job done in 3-4 exercises per body part at 3 sets per exercise and 6-10 reps per set, you're doing something wrong. Too much dumbbell work is done to bring up the big body parts. You've got to squat, bench, deadlift, heavy pulldowns, heavy BB curls, etc to build density.

The back, in my opinion, doesn't get the work it deserves because we can't see it in its flexed state without a good mirror set up. We usually judge our backs by the front lat spread. One thing that many guys miss, and it makes up a good portion of the defined back, is traps. The traps start at the neck, jump to the shoulder, and travel down the back to just below mid-spine and are what show up ripped and rippling in a good back shot (see my avi). The traps are worked with heavy BB shrugs (forget DB shrugs....even 150lb DB's aren't heavy enough) AND with heavy DB front flies. I always work my traps with my shoulders rather than back because they get worked harder with shoulders.

Finally, the mind-muscle connection, or the ability to mentally focus on the muscle being worked is key. Even with all the sympathetic muscles helping, you have to "feel" just the one you're working to be able to bring it to peak contraction at the "top" of the lift. Without that peak contraction, you can't fully develop that muscle.

Hope that helps!

FloridaMuscle
04-13-2009, 10:40 AM
Esplendido,

What is your current split?

thepump
04-13-2009, 10:46 AM
BTW....don't you have some taxes to do????.....LOL!

befor i have my client focus on her bodypart.

Wanted to ask you what year is masters for women bodybuilding?

not pro?:confused:

esplendido
04-13-2009, 12:19 PM
Esplendido,

What is your current split?

Day 1: Legs
Day 2: Chest
Day 3: Back
Day 4: Shoulders
Day 5: Arms

2 days off and repeat.

esplendido
04-13-2009, 12:19 PM
befor i have my client focus on her bodypart.

Wanted to ask you what year is masters for women bodybuilding?

not pro?:confused:

Masters womens classes usually start at 35.

FloridaMuscle
04-13-2009, 01:59 PM
Day 1: Legs
Day 2: Chest
Day 3: Back
Day 4: Shoulders
Day 5: Arms

2 days off and repeat.

Thanks. Mine is similar. Once I started focusing on only 1 body part a day I had excellent progress.

Formula94
04-13-2009, 04:06 PM
One of the things that has worked well for me is, heavy drop sets. Use enough weight to only get 4 reps (like esplendido stated), then, drop some weight to complete 4 to 6 more reps, so the rep range for the set is 8 to 10 reps per set.
For legs I will do 3 sets of those for each squat and leg press, then do 4 regular sets of ham curls and my leg growth has great. Because it is so taxing though, I will only do them for 2 weeks then go back to normal set/rep pyramid for a week or two and then give it another go.

thepump
04-13-2009, 09:04 PM
Masters womens classes usually start at 35.


Thanks for the info. She'll be glad to hear that, she's 39. She has great genetics and I think she'll do great. I'll have to get some pics and post them.
:beerbang:

Great news....

musclejl
04-14-2009, 07:32 PM
Thanx for taking the time.
Your advice: Very helpful and I am saving it in my harddrive.
Stay Pumped




Mr. Esplendido
JL,

That cut between the shoulder and arm is a diet thing. All cuts are. However, growing the lateral deltoid head will make that cut seem deeper. Many lifters seem to think that pressing movements are what grow shoulders, but those are complex movements that engage the triceps quite a bit and take away from isolating the delts.

Flying motions are best for building massive shoulders. Unfortunately, many bber's use them as "shaping" movements, whatever the hell "shaping" is. (I don't believe in shaping exercises because shape is genetic). Heavy lateral DB flies, side flies, and rear delt flies build delts along with pressing moves. The flies put the stress directly on the deltoids. Heavy is any weight that you can just complete 8-10 reps with. You have to keep the elbows bent slightly and parallel with the DB at the top of the movement. I don't believe in going higher than parallel with the shoulders because it is in that position that the muscle is most stressed.

Density is achieved in combination of time and lifting heavy. Muscle density is what many consider "muscle maturity". If you "don't lift no heavy-ass weight", you're not going to develop density. If you can't get the job done in 3-4 exercises per body part at 3 sets per exercise and 6-10 reps per set, you're doing something wrong. Too much dumbbell work is done to bring up the big body parts. You've got to squat, bench, deadlift, heavy pulldowns, heavy BB curls, etc to build density.

The back, in my opinion, doesn't get the work it deserves because we can't see it in its flexed state without a good mirror set up. We usually judge our backs by the front lat spread. One thing that many guys miss, and it makes up a good portion of the defined back, is traps. The traps start at the neck, jump to the shoulder, and travel down the back to just below mid-spine and are what show up ripped and rippling in a good back shot (see my avi). The traps are worked with heavy BB shrugs (forget DB shrugs....even 150lb DB's aren't heavy enough) AND with heavy DB front flies. I always work my traps with my shoulders rather than back because they get worked harder with shoulders.

Finally, the mind-muscle connection, or the ability to mentally focus on the muscle being worked is key. Even with all the sympathetic muscles helping, you have to "feel" just the one you're working to be able to bring it to peak contraction at the "top" of the lift. Without that peak contraction, you can't fully develop that muscle.

Hope that helps!

Desertmedic
04-19-2009, 11:32 PM
I have a question on training calves.Have a home gym ,I do one leg calf raises w/db .Is there anything else i can do? thanks

esplendido
04-19-2009, 11:59 PM
I have a question on training calves.Have a home gym ,I do one leg calf raises w/db .Is there anything else i can do? thanks

If you have a roommate or mate, you can do donkey raises. Have them sit on your lower back as you're bent over and use a 2x4 to do toe raises on.

You can also sit in a chair, toes on the board with a weight or barbell across your knees and do calf raises.

Lighter weight requires you doing very high reps to burning exhaustion to get growth. Just look at cyclists calves and see what high reps on a bike does for them!

Desertmedic
04-20-2009, 12:04 AM
thanks for the info. I miss having a gym with equipment and i am slacking on my calves,but that is just an excuse. Just need to train harder

esplendido
04-20-2009, 12:06 AM
thanks for the info. I miss having a gym with equipment and i am slacking on my calves,but that is just an excuse. Just need to train harder

Are you in an area without a gym nearby or just can't afford a membership right now?

Desertmedic
04-20-2009, 01:01 AM
no gyms in area . I,m in a small town with no gyms not even one at the park

gman
04-20-2009, 12:56 PM
stand on some steps holding a big bag of dog food, or something heavy in each hand to do the calf raises.

Desertmedic
04-20-2009, 01:32 PM
Thanks guys,one more question. I do 5 day split,should i throw in calves more than just on leg days ?I am growing in all bodyparts but my calves don't.I think i'm just not hitting them hard enough or often enough.

Dom
04-20-2009, 03:37 PM
Some where on the masters boards esplendido posted a killer potato sack work out!!! LOL:bowdown:

Mr. Dead
09-03-2009, 04:49 PM
Pecs in general are my weakest area... But, I've been able to build up everything a little, except for the inner portion... I just don't feel a contraction when I do cross-overs, flies, or pec deck...

esplendido
09-03-2009, 04:54 PM
Pecs in general are my weakest area... But, I've been able to build up everything a little, except for the inner portion... I just don't feel a contraction when I do cross-overs, flies, or pec deck...

How do you do your flies, and at what rep range? Flies are absolutely the best for building thick, full pecs. You should keep your arms bent at a 45 degree angle in the down position with the DB's parallel to your body. When you fly the DB's, get as deep as you can, feeling the pecs stretch tightly. Use weight that allows only 6-8 reps and do only 3 sets of flat and 3 sets of inclines. Do bench press first, then the flies. Just those 3 exercises, going heavy on all sets, will build thick pecs all the way to their center.

Mr. Dead
09-03-2009, 05:32 PM
How do you do your flies, and at what rep range? Flies are absolutely the best for building thick, full pecs. You should keep your arms bent at a 45 degree angle in the down position with the DB's parallel to your body. When you fly the DB's, get as deep as you can, feeling the pecs stretch tightly. Use weight that allows only 6-8 reps and do only 3 sets of flat and 3 sets of inclines. Do bench press first, then the flies. Just those 3 exercises, going heavy on all sets, will build thick pecs all the way to their center.
Thanks!!! I think my issue may be me not going deep enough... I usually do 2 working sets of 10... (Not counting warm-up sests...) I usually do flat and incline flyes...

APOSTLE
09-04-2009, 10:32 AM
esplendido,

I hear so much about overtraining at an older age, do this split, that split, etc etc.

What do you recommend as a good split for a lifter in their late 40's who has trained for 3 or so years but has finally gotten diet in check and really wants to put on some size?

Thanks!!

gman
09-04-2009, 11:04 AM
I think that split Rick put up somewhere works great...I am doing real well on it. You take weekends off from lifting, then work from big to small muscles M-F.

M-legs
T-chest
W-back
Th-shoulders
F-arms

Sorry to jump in Rick, please feel free to correct me if needed...I just had to chime in because I love this split so much.

esplendido
09-04-2009, 11:39 AM
esplendido,

I hear so much about overtraining at an older age, do this split, that split, etc etc.

What do you recommend as a good split for a lifter in their late 40's who has trained for 3 or so years but has finally gotten diet in check and really wants to put on some size?

Thanks!!

Gman has it right. First, you should work every muscle once a week. Believe it or not, even young bodybuilders grow doing this. We used to do a 3-on, 1-off routine in the 70's and 80's. I did the push-pull method, where you worked your pushing muscles 1 day, pulling muscles the next, and legs on the third day. 1 day off and repeat.

But after awhile, we had to lift lighter on the second workouts for the week because we weren't recovering sufficiently....even with AAS use. Eventually, we spread the workouts out more and more until the sweet spot was found, which is working every bodypart once a week.

I've suggested doing the larger muscle groups early in the week and gradually move to the smaller groups. Stress is cumulative and carries over from day to day. So doing the large muscles first when you're refreshed from 2 days off allows the best effort for those muscles. As you add stress each day, your workouts involve smaller muscles so that you still have sufficient energy to work them thoroughly. As Mike suggested:

Day 1: Legs
Day 2: Chest
Day 3: Back
Day 4: Shoulders
Day 5: Arms
Day 6: Off
Day 7: Off

Some would argue that Back involves a larger muscle group than Chest and should go ahead of Chest. They actually are equal when you consider the sympathetic muscles, so inserting Back between Chest and Shoulders allow the shoulders to recover from the Chest workout before being worked directly.

Rest is critical at our age. Those 2 days off are what allow the body to recover and build. Less is more!

I also suggest straight sets with no super sets, giant sets, forced reps, etc. Those are for younger men with healthier tendons....and usually reserved for contest prep, not bulking and maintaining. I recommend lifting heavy for sets of 6-10 reps, usually no more than a combined 9 sets per bodypart. using a pyramid method in arriving at your top working set. If you're in the gym longer than 45-55 minutes for any workout, you're overtraining!

esplendido
09-04-2009, 11:50 AM
Thanks!!! I think my issue may be me not going deep enough... I usually do 2 working sets of 10... (Not counting warm-up sests...) I usually do flat and incline flyes...

The trick is, on these exercises and all exercises, is to use weight that causes failure at the end of a set. This is why I recommend sets of 6-10 reps. That 6-10 range is where your last rep would require assistance from someone to complete. You might be really strong one day and fail at 8 reps....another day at 7 reps, etc. There is no need for more than 10 reps on most exercises. If you can complete all 10 reps successfully, then the weight is too light.

You have to remember, to get muscle to grow, you have to take it up to and past its capacity to lift. Since you should be working each muscle group only once a week, you can push those muscles to the brink on every workout. I attempt to get one more rep every time I lift and when I can finally do 8-10 reps with a weight, I increase the weight.

3 years ago, I was doing flat DB flies with 80lb DB's. 2 years ago I had increased that to 100lb DB's, and now I fly with 120lb DB's. I'm getting 6 reps at that weight and when I get that to 8+ reps, I'll increase to 125lb DB's. See how that works?

sassy69
09-04-2009, 01:51 PM
I need to get my abs deeper / thicker (not wider). Suggestions? In the past I've done abs 1-2 x/week mostly because I'd run out of time training trying to make time for cardio. My usual sets are:
super:
- fitball crunches (100 lb/20 x 3) using grips attached to a low height on the cable stack (usually at 100 lb)
- unweighted fitball crunches that target the upper abs - I do these mostly just because it burns good! (mental thing I'm sure)
kneeling cable crunches (stack) - front & obliques (150 lb/10 x 3) w/ 4-5 count on the negative
super:
- lying leg raises (using visualization to ensure I"m pulling w/ abs instead of hip flexors) w/ hip raise (again driven by abs not hip flexors) at the top: 25 x 3
- oblique V-ups: 10 (per side) x 3

Have recently added:
- hanging leg raises (when I can find the arm hang things... and then hold my nose .. those are the raunchiest smelling pieces of eqpt in the gym...); front, sides for several reps, holding negatives, raising w/ medicine ball between legs etc
- "Needsize abs" - named after a guy w/ crazy abbage on EF - decline bench / roman chair slow negative, hold for 5, pulse up for 5 crunches, hold for 5 on the negative, repeat until you throw up or fall over.

I've got approx 11 weeks to see if I can get some depth to my abs before the next show.... dunno if its possible but IMO its the one thing I need to work on of all my muscle groups, so I'll focus on it.

esplendido
09-04-2009, 02:21 PM
Jill,

you are having trouble flexing your abs. I see this in your hands-over-head pose. You are creating a vacuum rather than crunching your abs. You do this on the front lat spread and front dbl bi shot, too.

Call me at your convenience and let's discuss getting together before Nats.


I need to get my abs deeper / thicker (not wider). Suggestions? In the past I've done abs 1-2 x/week mostly because I'd run out of time training trying to make time for cardio. My usual sets are:
super:
- fitball crunches (100 lb/20 x 3) using grips attached to a low height on the cable stack (usually at 100 lb)
- unweighted fitball crunches that target the upper abs - I do these mostly just because it burns good! (mental thing I'm sure)
kneeling cable crunches (stack) - front & obliques (150 lb/10 x 3) w/ 4-5 count on the negative
super:
- lying leg raises (using visualization to ensure I"m pulling w/ abs instead of hip flexors) w/ hip raise (again driven by abs not hip flexors) at the top: 25 x 3
- oblique V-ups: 10 (per side) x 3

Have recently added:
- hanging leg raises (when I can find the arm hang things... and then hold my nose .. those are the raunchiest smelling pieces of eqpt in the gym...); front, sides for several reps, holding negatives, raising w/ medicine ball between legs etc
- "Needsize abs" - named after a guy w/ crazy abbage on EF - decline bench / roman chair slow negative, hold for 5, pulse up for 5 crunches, hold for 5 on the negative, repeat until you throw up or fall over.

I've got approx 11 weeks to see if I can get some depth to my abs before the next show.... dunno if its possible but IMO its the one thing I need to work on of all my muscle groups, so I'll focus on it.

APOSTLE
09-04-2009, 02:32 PM
I think that split Rick put up somewhere works great...I am doing real well on it. You take weekends off from lifting, then work from big to small muscles M-F.

M-legs
T-chest
W-back
Th-shoulders
F-arms

Sorry to jump in Rick, please feel free to correct me if needed...I just had to chime in because I love this split so much.

Thanks gman, appreciate you jumping in!



Gman has it right. First, you should work every muscle once a week. Believe it or not, even young bodybuilders grow doing this. We used to do a 3-on, 1-off routine in the 70's and 80's. I did the push-pull method, where you worked your pushing muscles 1 day, pulling muscles the next, and legs on the third day. 1 day off and repeat.

But after awhile, we had to lift lighter on the second workouts for the week because we weren't recovering sufficiently....even with AAS use. Eventually, we spread the workouts out more and more until the sweet spot was found, which is working every bodypart once a week.

I've suggested doing the larger muscle groups early in the week and gradually move to the smaller groups. Stress is cumulative and carries over from day to day. So doing the large muscles first when you're refreshed from 2 days off allows the best effort for those muscles. As you add stress each day, your workouts involve smaller muscles so that you still have sufficient energy to work them thoroughly. As Mike suggested:

Day 1: Legs
Day 2: Chest
Day 3: Back
Day 4: Shoulders
Day 5: Arms
Day 6: Off
Day 7: Off

Some would argue that Back involves a larger muscle group than Chest and should go ahead of Chest. They actually are equal when you consider the sympathetic muscles, so inserting Back between Chest and Shoulders allow the shoulders to recover from the Chest workout before being worked directly.

Rest is critical at our age. Those 2 days off are what allow the body to recover and build. Less is more!

I also suggest straight sets with no super sets, giant sets, forced reps, etc. Those are for younger men with healthier tendons....and usually reserved for contest prep, not bulking and maintaining. I recommend lifting heavy for sets of 6-10 reps, usually no more than a combined 9 sets per bodypart. using a pyramid method in arriving at your top working set. If you're in the gym longer than 45-55 minutes for any workout, you're overtraining!

Thanks so much, that looks very solid and I will give it a good 10-12 weeks to see what results I can get.

Appreciate it esplendido, thank you again!

APOSTLE
09-04-2009, 07:33 PM
Rick,

One more question. You say no more than 9 sets per bodypart, would that be for say legs, 9 for quads AND 9 for hamstrings or 9 total not including calves?

Thank you again.



LD5

esplendido
09-04-2009, 08:05 PM
Rick,

One more question. You say no more than 9 sets per bodypart, would that be for say legs, 9 for quads AND 9 for hamstrings or 9 total not including calves?

Thank you again.



LD5

I'm glad you asked, so I can clarify. I did mention 9 sets for "most" bodyparts. Legs are the exception. I would recommend 12-15 sets for legs, inclusive of quads and hams. Calves would be separate. A typical workout would look something like this;

(Sets shown do not include warm-up sets)

Squat: 4 sets
Leg press: 3 sets
Leg extensions: 3 sets
Leg curls: 3 sets

Of course, you can sub hacks for leg press, or do 6-7 sets of leg press and not do squats if your knees can't take squats, but you get the picture.

Again, no sets need to include more than 10 reps, and all sets should be done to failure. Usually I start with a weight I can do just 10 reps with. The next set is with heavier weight allowing 6-8 reps, then the next set using weight allowing 4-6 reps. Occasionally I throw in a single, trying to best my previous single. That would be an additional set.

APOSTLE
09-04-2009, 08:12 PM
I'm glad you asked, so I can clarify. I did mention 9 sets for "most" bodyparts. Legs are the exception. I would recommend 12-15 sets for legs, inclusive of quads and hams. Calves would be separate. A typical workout would look something like this;

(Sets shown do not include warm-up sets)

Squat: 4 sets
Leg press: 3 sets
Leg extensions: 3 sets
Leg curls: 3 sets

Of course, you can sub hacks for leg press, or do 6-7 sets of leg press and not do squats if your knees can't take squats, but you get the picture.

Again, no sets need to include more than 10 reps, and all sets should be done to failure. Usually I start with a weight I can do just 10 reps with. The next set is with heavier weight allowing 6-8 reps, then the next set using weight allowing 4-6 reps. Occasionally I throw in a single, trying to best my previous single. That would be an additional set.


Thank you again Rick, I will let you know how it goes.

Much appreciated.

Mr. Dead
09-08-2009, 11:28 AM
The trick is, on these exercises and all exercises, is to use weight that causes failure at the end of a set. This is why I recommend sets of 6-10 reps. That 6-10 range is where your last rep would require assistance from someone to complete. You might be really strong one day and fail at 8 reps....another day at 7 reps, etc. There is no need for more than 10 reps on most exercises. If you can complete all 10 reps successfully, then the weight is too light.

You have to remember, to get muscle to grow, you have to take it up to and past its capacity to lift. Since you should be working each muscle group only once a week, you can push those muscles to the brink on every workout. I attempt to get one more rep every time I lift and when I can finally do 8-10 reps with a weight, I increase the weight.

3 years ago, I was doing flat DB flies with 80lb DB's. 2 years ago I had increased that to 100lb DB's, and now I fly with 120lb DB's. I'm getting 6 reps at that weight and when I get that to 8+ reps, I'll increase to 125lb DB's. See how that works?
Got it!!! Thanks, again!!!

axioma
09-19-2009, 02:08 PM
I feel that my development surrounding my spine is sufficient, mid-traps, erectors, etc. however the mid-to outer lats are lacking, esp. the insertion area at waist. I noticed Dennis Wolfe had a similiar deficiency and brought the area up. Any suggestions on exercises, hand placement, handles, any tweaks? Many thanks.

esplendido
09-19-2009, 02:22 PM
Looking at your avi, your erectors are overdeveloped, overpowering your lat insertions. I'd back off the lower back work first. Many people believe that wider grip pulldowns will widen the lats but seated rows actually work better. Do them heavy with weight that only allows 6-8 reps and do 4 sets. I guarantee that you will feel those in the area you want to develop.

gman
09-21-2009, 03:11 PM
I know I have a lot of areas that need to be brought up, but I especially see a glaring problem of not having enough pecs in my extreme upper chest...the area below the collarbone.

Is it wise to do 75% incline work for a while to try to get that shelf in the upper chest?

esplendido
09-21-2009, 06:11 PM
I know I have a lot of areas that need to be brought up, but I especially see a glaring problem of not having enough pecs in my extreme upper chest...the area below the collarbone.

Is it wise to do 75% incline work for a while to try to get that shelf in the upper chest?

Mike, if your shoulders are good, incline bench is decent for upper chest development, but the best is deep, incline dumbbell flies. Flies take most of the delt work out of the move and concentrate on pecs. The steeper you get on barbell inclines, the more the shoulders do the work.

On incline DB flies, Keep your arms bent at about a 45 degree angle and drop the weight as deeply as you can....feel the pecs stretch. Use a weight that causes failure at about 8 reps and do 3 sets. You'll see your upper pecs begin to blossom within weeks!

gman
09-21-2009, 08:36 PM
Thanks, Rick. tomorrow is chest day and I am going to incline fly the heck out of my chest.

gman
09-22-2009, 11:24 AM
I did an all incline workout and it was awesome...thanks Rick.

I warmed my chest up real good by doing 5 sets of pushups with my feet on the bench, then some low to high cable flyes. Followed up with incline bb press, incline flys and incline db presses. Great pump!

Is it ok to go all incline for a while or should I sneak some flat stuff in once in a while as well?

esplendido
09-22-2009, 11:33 AM
I did an all incline workout and it was awesome...thanks Rick.

I warmed my chest up real good by doing 5 sets of pushups with my feet on the bench, then some low to high cable flyes. Followed up with incline bb press, incline flys and incline db presses. Great pump!

Is it ok to go all incline for a while or should I sneak some flat stuff in once in a while as well?

No reason to specialize in upper pecs, Mike. Start with flat bench press to get the entire sympathetic group of muscles warmed up, especially shoulders. Inclines are tough on the shoulders. By doing the incline DB Flies, your upper chest will come up quickly.

gman
09-22-2009, 11:39 AM
Thanks, Rick...I will do exactly that!

axioma
09-23-2009, 11:03 AM
Looking at your avi, your erectors are overdeveloped, overpowering your lat insertions. I'd back off the lower back work first. Many people believe that wider grip pulldowns will widen the lats but seated rows actually work better. Do them heavy with weight that only allows 6-8 reps and do 4 sets. I guarantee that you will feel those in the area you want to develop.

Thanks, any suggestion on grip-straight bar wide or palm up grip to waist? How bout reverse grip pull downs?

laxvadtre
10-28-2009, 03:14 AM
Great idea but 100 days too soon for me and would burn up my frequent flier tickets being saved for a gaggle of family and Pitt....but tempting non the less. Other Forums have "Arnold' trips and should be encouraged to join in. I don't have a finger on or feeling how large and/or participatory this RX Masters group is. One 40+ class for the girlies?


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Baldiewonkanobi
10-28-2009, 11:30 AM
Lax, I am in the same boat. I too have saved my frequent fliers for Pitt in July. I would love to lay down some geezer hurt on the boyz in Columbus...will just have to wait. The size of RX Masters is small, but growing. Its ratio of competitors vs trolls is better than most.

Baldie