Women's Open Steroid Discussion

[Lee Penman]

I am opening this up as a section to discuss any issues and questions you may have on the subject of steroid use. Let us 'remove the veil' once and for all!:)

[Lee Penman]

Do I hear crickets??? Come on ladies, let's open this section up with some thoughts and questions!

[sassy69]

Please feel free to PM your questions to Leigh or any of the women's board mods / forum leaders if you prefer anonymity!

Another note I wanted to add, though we are looking to promote open, intelligent discussion of chemical supplementation, please be intelligent about anything you read on here. AAS is really is, at its root every time, you making yourself your own personal Petri dish. It is always at best a controlled experiment, at worst, self-medicating w/ male hormones. It is important to consider your goals and expectations of a cycle. Sometimes a cycle simply isn't appropriate and you need to go back to basics. If your diet & training program aren't getting you the results you want, then the drugs will only make it worse. They are always only SUPPLEMENTS to an already productive, consistent fitness program! If you aren't sure if an approach is even appropriate, please ask!

[Tatyana]

If your diet & training program aren't getting you the results you want, then the drugs will only make it worse.

Would you elaborate or give an example of this?

I will start with something I see quite frequently.

Women want to take steroids, Anavar or Winstrol, to burn off stubborn fat, get more definition or tone up a bit.

Your thoughts and opinions on this?

[Sistersteel]

I did a write up a few years back on Masteron and posted it out for discussion in certain private communities of well versed individuals on anabolics and the female endocrine system. I was hoping to gather feedback and collect data to complete my study. I even proposed my theory to a geneticist for a professional, informed opinion.

I have no concrete medical studies to support any of my views thus far, so this approach holds no merit. It is merely speculative. I am going to propose a synopsis for your consideration and feedback.


Numerous discussions on the recreational use of masteron where women are concerned, claim that the drug was designed specifically FOR women. Being a DHT derivative, Its molecular structure is derived from the same root as the other very popular and much safer compounds commonly used among female athletes. However the antiestrogenic properties the drug that we find so appealing, can be the very components that lead to our demise.

Masteron has been proven to speed up hair loss in genetically predisposed male individuals. Considering that the trait for hair loss is usually carried by the X chromosome, men who have NO history on their mother's side of the family need not be concerned with Androgenic alopecia. However, how does this apply to women? Considering women get an X from the mother and an X from the father, with a history of Androgenic alopecia on the father's side of the family, then do such women risk expediting the possibility of a receding hairline?

I say yes.

I cannot find any concrete evidence that proves otherwise making masteron a bad choice for the genetically predisposed female athlete.

From a medical standpoint, breast cancer treatment with masteron and chemo will cause inevitable hairloss regardless.

One person's concept of "safe" is another person's "hazard".



Thoughts?


SS

[sassy69]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassy69 http://forums.rxmuscle.com/images/okay/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?p=152370#post152370)
If your diet & training program aren't getting you the results you want, then the drugs will only make it worse.

Would you elaborate or give an example of this?
Ex: Girl bitches about can't lose weight (mostly because isn't consistent w/ diet). Boyfriend says "Just use some winstrol - it will lean you out & tone you up". Start taking winstrol. Since diet sucks, and not lean already, just end up "thicker", more acne, potential hair falling out, starts wondering why her period stopped, etc. The point is people looking for quicky fixes vs taking the time to establish the diet & training.

[Lee Penman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassy69 http://forums.rxmuscle.com/images/okay/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?p=152370#post152370)
If your diet & training program aren't getting you the results you want, then the drugs will only make it worse.

Would you elaborate or give an example of this?
Ex: Girl bitches about can't lose weight (mostly because isn't consistent w/ diet). Boyfriend says "Just use some winstrol - it will lean you out & tone you up". Start taking winstrol. Since diet sucks, and not lean already, just end up "thicker", more acne, potential hair falling out, starts wondering why her period stopped, etc. The point is people looking for quicky fixes vs taking the time to establish the diet & training.
I am totally with you on this! Too many people seem to think that steroids are some sort of miracle fix for fat loss and muscle growth. It is this form of thinking that leads the media to accuse athletes using drugs of being 'cheats'. An athlete using drugs must train harder and eat smarter or they are wasting their time and money on the drugs.
I have a suspicion that a lot of male trainers are on some sort of comission for promoting the use of Var and Winnie (lol!!!)

[Tatyana]

I see this far too often.

I think the media frenzy about steroids has actually promoted steroid use.

[GirlyMuscle]

Are there aas that are better for dieting and ones better for bulking?

[Angela123]

I am totally with you on this! Too many people seem to think that steroids are some sort of miracle fix for fat loss and muscle growth. It is this form of thinking that leads the media to accuse athletes using drugs of being 'cheats'. An athlete using drugs must train harder and eat smarter or they are wasting their time and money on the drugs.
I have a suspicion that a lot of male trainers are on some sort of comission for promoting the use of Var and Winnie (lol!!!)


its weird..ever since i got on forums and have been reading the discussions on steroids, i cant believe how often i read what you wrote and what Tat had mentioned. how women think steroids are some sort of miracle fix for fat loss, 'toning' up and to get more definition. i never assumed that and did not think people did...but i was wrong! it is sad that there are many women who do use steroids for that reason.

goodness...i have had skinny women, just normal housewives, who dont compete or anything, dont lift hardcore...who come up to me asking about them. i just stare in disbelief as they ask me about them.

men are just as bad when it comes to using and not even training hard and smart. so many guys I know..they use but yet their diet sux, they go out drinking every weekend and they dont even train that well. so stupid. i dont get it.

i know many people on them who dont look it at all. i think to myself, 'wtf. why waste your money and why even bother.' they assume they will grow into ronnie coleman just by using. i guess they have money to blow.

[Kolbe]

A thread like this one is just one of the reasons I really like this board :)
It's so nice we can have a good discusion about a subject like this.

I understand the women, who have come to some stopping point, hitting a plateau, where they just don't see results anymore, considder taking something to help them get further ahead and reach their goals. But as you all point out, if they would uptimize the traning and diet and not just jump on the miracle fix, they would save themself for sides and they might just end up getting the results they want anyway :)

I'm not saying taking it is wrong, but you have to get to a point where it really makes a difference and where the training and diet is already optimal. Hiring a coach would cost money, but money saved on it could be used for the coach ;)

I'll be hiring a coach to get me further ahead when I'm done with my comps this season. I've considdered taking stuff like anavar and clen many times, never taken anything, and have figured a coach would be better to get me that step further :)

[sassy69]

The whole "hitting a plateau" and all that for anyone w/ less than say, 5 yrs of lifting experience, is a cop out and just further illustrates the lack of attention to the basics - diet & training, which, as most of you know, I rant about all the time. But I think the media goes a long way to skewing the correct information about drugs. What comes to mind is the flood of ultra skinny Hollywood starlets who, the magazines say, are using the miracle drug "Clenbuterol". The funny thing is, every "gymrat" person I've seen use that stuff doesn't end up looking like a skeletal crack ho. And then if they are actually using clen, who the hell is telling them about it? If they are getting drug recommendations from a trainer, you'd think the trainer would be telling them about a whole arsenal of stuff that would make them look leaner & better instead of cadaverous. So that makes me think they're getting their information from people who are just as ignorant as the rest of the world. Or like these anorexia sites where they all go on a forum and talk about the best way to purge or use of DNP to get even skinnier. But at any rate, the whispers start and there's a whole slice of society who perpetuate the use of drugs and completely miss the whole part about diet & training. (Actually could say the same about the people who get plastic surgery in lieu of diet & training...)

RE: Coach -- I'd throw a big fat caveat on that too actually. The fitness industry is not regulated and any idiot, or any truly knowledgeable & committed person can get a training cert. Many of the trainers I've worked with don't actually have the standard ACE certs, etc but instead promote themselves on their own background in lifting/BB and often, specifically in the area of preparation for competition. This can mean a number of things - they have good, practical background and have supplemented it with knowledge of knesiology, etc. and some who just sell a good story. Nutrition is the interesting area when it comes to "certification" because it is much more regulated than the training certs are and many trainers just simply won't provide diets because of the liability of not being a licensed dietician. But all that aside, my point was to say that people will look to their coaches for guidance on the chemical side of things and, I'm gonna generalize, but especially male coaches will probably be more aggressive w/ the drug recommendations, hopefully at least based on past observational experience w/ working with women. But I doubt they would be privy to the nuances of drug use and women's bodies to the point where they would be more conservative. Therefore, even w/ a coach's help, IMO it still falls to the user herself, to make sure SHE understands what she's getting into andto be prepared to accept or not accept both the results and the sides. Many go into competition w/ an attitude of "I'll do whatever it takes!" and if the coach says, "Here use some anadrol of you want to get big"... I'd start by heading for the internet and researching the hell out of anadrol, and absolutely, come back to the coach and say "Explain to me why Anadrol is the appropriate chemical for the goals I'm looking for? What results & sides should I expect?" and then, go research some more and decide if that's what you're willing to take on. Even w/ a coach or someone you trust, it is still YOU who is putting the compound in your body and YOU who has to deal w/ the results and the sides. And the sides don't just go away. Depending on the compound, it may take a while for it to clear your system. This means you should also get a basic understanding of how steroids work. YOu can't pick & choose your results and sides, and its a crapshoot as to what results and sides you'll get. And this all on the assumption that your diet & training already are productive & consistent.

Its not rocket science, but it shouldn't be taken lightly either. It is absolutely all about personal responsibility & education ON TOP OF functional and operational understanding and execution of diet & training. Coaches are a great learning tool & guide, but you still need to use common sense when taking someone else's advice on what you are going to put into your body.

[tammyp]

ill ask a few common questions that im sure many may have.

what is a good 1st time drug?

what can i expect from a 1st cycle?

what is a good precontest and bulk cycle?

gh for women?

are thier sides of taking anti estrogens?

[captaincardio58]

Its seems women use more orals then males is that for a perticular reason?? Obviousley you can control your sides by taking orals just by decreasing a dose is that the only reason?? I def wanna learn a bit more about all this

[sassy69]

Its seems women use more orals then males is that for a perticular reason?? Obviousley you can control your sides by taking orals just by decreasing a dose is that the only reason?? I def wanna learn a bit more about all this

Also orals don't require a needle, which has a greater association w/ "hardcore steroids",, requires procuring needles as well, and injecting yourself, whereas an oral is just popping a pill. Also the orals, anavar, winstrol, and back in the day / recently, oral primo, are those w/ the lesser sides, the shorter half-lives and reasonably affordable & readily available.

For guys, often the volumes of these that they need to get results could make it like multiple handfuls of pills, that can become expensive, so its more cost-effective to use the longer esters, injectibles. Guys are usually more interested in mass gains vs cutting and it seems the general consensus that test of some sort should be included in a cycle to get results. Guys who ask about "orals only" usually don't come out w/ a 'Yea man, that's a great cycle". There aren't great gains from the orals options (maybe dbol or anadrol). The liver impact of orals is also concern, and again in the amounts that would be needed, bigger impact.

[captaincardio58]

Also orals don't require a needle, which has a greater association w/ "hardcore steroids",, requires procuring needles as well, and injecting yourself, whereas an oral is just popping a pill. Also the orals, anavar, winstrol, and back in the day / recently, oral primo, are those w/ the lesser sides, the shorter half-lives and reasonably affordable & readily available.

For guys, often the volumes of these that they need to get results could make it like multiple handfuls of pills, that can become expensive, so its more cost-effective to use the longer esters, injectibles. Guys are usually more interested in mass gains vs cutting and it seems the general consensus that test of some sort should be included in a cycle to get results. Guys who ask about "orals only" usually don't come out w/ a 'Yea man, that's a great cycle". There aren't great gains from the orals options (maybe dbol or anadrol). The liver impact of orals is also concern, and again in the amounts that would be needed, bigger impact.

that makes a lot of sence, the first time i used the guy who was helping told me injectables were the way to go just based on liver saftey and such, the only orals ive ever used was anavar and i was up to bout 40 mg a day ihad the 10 mg i beleive then, i def agree most male bodybuilders/powerlifters ect wont speak to highly of an oral cycle unless they are afraid of needles lil poke poke haha, speaking of that dont a lot of women use GH pre contest??

[Carolyn Bryant]

Sister Steel, I heard your interview on Off Topic. You are the bomb girl! We tried to find a contact email for you. I have a close friend who wants to meet you. And thanks for your input about Masteron.

[GirlyMuscle]

Are there aas that are better for dieting and ones better for bulking?
Let me rephrase this....I know steriods are not for fat loss, however, they are used during cutting to keep from losing muscle. Obviously, during a bulk to build. That being said...are there steriods that are better for cutting and retaining muscle and others that are better for bulking and building?

[Lee Penman]

Let me rephrase this....I know steriods are not for fat loss, however, they are used during cutting to keep from losing muscle. Obviously, during a bulk to build. That being said...are there steriods that are better for cutting and retaining muscle and others that are better for bulking and building?
Primo, EQ, Winstrol and Anavar are all good when it comes to cutting cycles. And of course Clen which has anabolic as well as cutting properties(especially in women) Primo is also one of the few drugs that works well on relatively low calorie diets.
Bulking? You could still use Primo and Anavar but NPP may be better (combined with Anavar). Of course, the more adventurous would go with EQ and the VERY adventurous would add Test Prop...and I know you are out there!

[Lee Penman]

Its seems women use more orals then males is that for a perticular reason?? Obviousley you can control your sides by taking orals just by decreasing a dose is that the only reason?? I def wanna learn a bit more about all this
I agree with Sassy on this. The needle issue is a big thing for a lot of women Taking an oral is just like popping a vitamin...it doesn't seem to have the same stigma attached. Plus I know a LOT of women who fear needles like a contest dieter fears cupcakes!!

[Lee Penman]

I love the way we are beginning to open up on this issue...free discussion is education and education is what we need!
Thanks to alll who have participated so far and keep them coming...

[Lee Penman]

ill ask a few common questions that im sure many may have.

what is a good 1st time drug?

what can i expect from a 1st cycle?

what is a good precontest and bulk cycle?

gh for women?

are thier sides of taking anti estrogens?
Hold tight...I think you just triggered a full article. Coming soon!

[Por2gue]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sassy69 http://forums.rxmuscle.com/images/okay/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?p=152370#post152370)
If your diet & training program aren't getting you the results you want, then the drugs will only make it worse.

Would you elaborate or give an example of this?
Ex: Girl bitches about can't lose weight (mostly because isn't consistent w/ diet). Boyfriend says "Just use some winstrol - it will lean you out & tone you up". Start taking winstrol. Since diet sucks, and not lean already, just end up "thicker", more acne, potential hair falling out, starts wondering why her period stopped, etc. The point is people looking for quicky fixes vs taking the time to establish the diet & training.
Great post Sas!