Q&A with Scoobysnacks

[-Z-]

If you need help with your prep and have questions, Jason is your man. The guy has some excellent knowledge and is very honest. He truly knows his stuff and I believe we can all learn a lot from him. Here are some basic facts about Jason.

-Competing since 2002

-2008 Northern Kentucky Bodybuilding Championships-1st

-2008 Indianapolis Bodybuilding Championships-1st

-2009 Jr. Nationals & Team Universe is his next competition. Good luck man!


So if anyone has any question for Scoobs please ask! He is more than willing to help people be better.

[-Z-]

What is your standard protocal for your athletes?

How much cardio do you recommend during precontest?

Do you prep naturals and non tested athletes?

How many grams of protein do you recommend for contest dieting?

How do you feel about water manipulation during the final week of prep?

Those should help get this thread rolling.:D

[Scoobysnacks]

ThanksZ! I'll help for sure where I can. Ask away. But, I will admit there are more knowledgeable folks in this industry for sure. However, I will share what I know and have learned. Im more of an application, real world guy, than a science guy. Im not gonna be able to quote you numbers and figures, but Ill speak from what Ive learned and what Ive seen work.

Ask away.

[-Z-]

Black and whites #'s don't always work anyway. Sometimes the eye is better. Quit being so modest.

[-Z-]

How close to a show should one train legs. I have heard some people say they train all the until the show I have heard others say they stop training them 2 weeks out, your thought?

[Youngguns]

Heyyyy Scooby!

I'll be here a little ;)

[Scoobysnacks]

What is your standard protocal for your athletes?

How much cardio do you recommend during precontest?

Do you prep naturals and non tested athletes?

How many grams of protein do you recommend for contest dieting?

How do you feel about water manipulation during the final week of prep?

Those should help get this thread rolling.:D



1) I dont have a standard protocol per se. I like to get a lot of background though on them as that tells a lot. What bodytype did they have as a child, in their teens, this helps decide their bodytype, though it can change with age, so its not determinative of the issue, but it helps. I also find out their offseason strategy, if they come to me at 10-12% and were pounding carbs I know they can certainly diet on them then too, so Ill set up a diet to create a slight deficit but keep starches in. If someone reports they are sluggish after carb meals or get headaches, then they are probably insulin insensitive, so Ill either use carb timing, or a variation of the keto diet. I guess my point is its not set in stone and to think such I think is a recipe for disaster and not much success. But, if someone can tolerate carbs I like to keep them in as long as possible, especially if natural.

2) I usually start with 30 mins LISS morning right out of bed with some water, glutamine and your choice of fat burner. Then 30 mins LISS pwo or even later in the evening, but Ill start most on a 30/30 protocol. This enables people to eat more which Im a big fan of. Ill add HIIT down the stretch as needed but usually dont start with it. Now Ive had some women figure competitors with all thier weight in their hips, butt and legs, they get HIIT, usually 4 days, 3 in evening on off days, and one session some other night that is not leg day or around leg day if possible. Again I guess the answer is this varies too.

3) protein for men I do 1.5 x LBM for naturals, those assisted can use 1.75 up to 2. It also depends on carb intake. The higher the carbs the less protein you need as the athlete is not running on their protein to fuel their workouts. The lower the carbs the higher the protein needs. Female I do 1.25 x lbm to 1.35. I find with less testosterone they dont need as much as a man as long as the diet is balanced, but again if they are more endo the carbs will be lower and protein will be higher, Ill start at the 1.35 with timed carbs. When I have to remove most carbs, Ill take women to 1.5 x LBM as well. Again no one size fits all, but these are the general applications. EDIT: I thought Id also add here that in my experience with figure athletes and women in general they seem to be able to take more of a pounding than a man (no pun intended), what I mean is women's bodies dont seem to give up the LBM as quickly as a mans body will. I cant explain it really, its a bitch for a natural woman to add LBM, and youd think with 1/10 test of a man they would be more quick to lose muscle but they dont. I had to really push my wife to get ready for her first show, and her LBM just didnt really drop. Ive found this to be pretty much the case.

4) I prep mostly natural athletes, but I have had a few non naturals. Other than being able to process protein better, the body for the most part is still the same. If a natural does well on my diet the drugs will just help enhance not hurt it.

5) Water manipulation during the final week of prep is a tricky thing. I practice a few different final week protocols which would take to much time to type out here. But, I feel that if you are largely loading with carbs, you will need to taper the water into the show, but dont cut it completely. If you do less loading the more water you can keep in. But, I think stopping it off on friday evening (in favor of just sips), and then just sipping day of show is a wise move. I know some say drink 2 gallons at the show and I was dry, well I look at them and see they were lean but dry is different. You have to find a balance between carbs, sodium, water etc. Everyones balance is a little different. For instance Im not blessed with great muscle bellies all over. I do better to come in slighly fuller than more dry. I have a guy now that just has bellowing muscle bellies even flat he looks incredible, so its to his advantage to get as dry as he can. But Ill tell you one size doesnt really fit all in this regard. Those reading this just think of your own physique.

[Scoobysnacks]

How close to a show should one train legs. I have heard some people say they train all the until the show I have heard others say they stop training them 2 weeks out, your thought?


I have people stop training legs anywhere from Thursday to Saturday. I discuss this with them and also ask them to watch this during prep. No matter when that workout is I decrease poundages some. Ive been known to still have leg blur and soreness up to 8 days myself so I watch this closely.

I also dont buy into all that circuit stuff. If heavy lifting during prep helped keep the muscle then why train light Sunday through Tues, you are already going to rest for 3 days. I train heavy and hard (with exception of legs, 85%) up to Tuesday that final week. Rest Weds-Sat. This is just how I see it. Im sure many can make a case for their light circuit training.

[-Z-]

Good stuff, thanks!

[BigPablo300]

It's about time you got a Q & A Jason:beerbang: Keep pounding away and give em hell at Jr. Nats bro! I'll be there cheering you on!

[Scoobysnacks]

It's about time you got a Q & A Jason:beerbang: Keep pounding away and give em hell at Jr. Nats bro! I'll be there cheering you on!

Thanks for the well wished, I appreciate it.

[JohnnyStyles]

Great...one of the best q&a here...wazup scoobs how's it going man...hope ur doing good...

A buddy of mine is doing a show this saturday and his skin color is some what like Dexter's...so which protocol should he go for...
Start tanning on thursday or friday morning...He already got the Jan Tana...so i guess i ask a lil advice here.

Take care man.
J.

[jphillips17]

This is going to be a great thread! :bowdown:

[Scoobysnacks]

Great...one of the best q&a here...wazup scoobs how's it going man...hope ur doing good...

A buddy of mine is doing a show this saturday and his skin color is some what like Dexter's...so which protocol should he go for...
Start tanning on thursday or friday morning...He already got the Jan Tana...so i guess i ask a lil advice here.

Take care man.
J.

Actually Im not familiar with Jan Tana, I was always a Pro Tan guy before just using the spray tan. I use www.liquidsunrayz.com (http://www.liquidsunrayz.com) at my shows now.

But I have two friends with that complexion. One just uses Dream Tan the morning of and looks great on stage. The other gets spray tanned as well.
I wish I could offer more help than that, but not having that skin color and not having Jan tana experience Id be talking where I have no business doing so.

[Riley]

This should be an awesome thread.

This question is more about when a prep ends.
What are your thoughts on the post-contest rebound? Do you have any specific protocols which you or your athletes follow?

Thanks mate.

[mdvsony]

Hi Scooby,

When carbing up, to stop overspilling should the process of carbing upbe taken slowly and adjusting carb intake according to look?

[Scoobysnacks]

Hi Scooby,

When carbing up, to stop overspilling should the process of carbing upbe taken slowly and adjusting carb intake according to look?

Depends, how is that for an answer.

I personally carb up all day on weds and then clean up the spillage on Thurs and Fri by decreasing carbs and decreasing water some as the days progress. Friday is more of a fat loading day than carb loading day for me. But my main protocol is to over carb on Weds then clean up Thurs and Fri. It may look like this 1000, 700 thurs, 250 fri with a fat load of about 130 grams fat from natural pb. Water going gallon, 1/2 and 1/4, cut off around 7pm, none on day of show except sips and 10-20 oz right before prejudging.

This really is going to be individual so if you can keep an eye on yourself you are best off to do as you stated.

There are so many ways to do this. Some guys load huge say tues or weds or both. Then go back to their lower to moderate carb diet get water really high with sodium back in to achieve homeostasis and continue to shed water, cut if off friday night and wake up dry.

Some guys keep things more constant with a sligth carb load maybe adding 50-100 grams above their diet, keeping water pretty constant and maybe a slight drop in sodium.

You have the general idea though, base it on your look.

I just wanted to illustrate it also depends on how you manipulate water and sodium in my humble opinion, my two cents which is probably all its worth, lol.

Ss

[mdvsony]

Thanks Scooby, deinitely worth noting :)

Just as a side note, what in the theory behid the fat loading? is it to present a fuller physique without holding too much water...?

Really good thread :)

[Scoobysnacks]

Thanks Scooby, deinitely worth noting :)

Just as a side note, what in the theory behid the fat loading? is it to present a fuller physique without holding too much water...?

Really good thread :)

My reasoning behind it is to actually hold the carb load.

Ss

[Koubs]

I personally carb up all day on weds and then clean up the spillage on Thurs and Fri by decreasing carbs and decreasing water some as the days progress. Friday is more of a fat loading day than carb loading day for me. But my main protocol is to over carb on Weds then clean up Thurs and Fri. It may look like this 1000, 700 thurs, 250 fri with a fat load of about 130 grams fat from natural pb. Water going gallon, 1/2 and 1/4, cut off around 7pm, none on day of show except sips and 10-20 oz right before prejudging.

Hey, I like this similar protocol for myself as well, although I don't go quite as high with the carbs and I keep in water slightly higher (never really cutting it completely)...

My question is regarding someone I am prepping: It's his first show and he will most like be a bantam or lightweight... He's dieting on 120g carbs, 250g protein, and about 50g of fat, looking good at 6 weeks out...

What way is a good way to determine how high to start with the carbs on WEDNESDAY?? Also, the day of the show, what does the carb intake for you look like prior to and leading up to pre-judging?? Do you like mostly fats at those meals as well?

[Scoobysnacks]

Hey, I like this similar protocol for myself as well, although I don't go quite as high with the carbs and I keep in water slightly higher (never really cutting it completely)...

My question is regarding someone I am prepping: It's his first show and he will most like be a bantam or lightweight... He's dieting on 120g carbs, 250g protein, and about 50g of fat, looking good at 6 weeks out...

What way is a good way to determine how high to start with the carbs on WEDNESDAY?? Also, the day of the show, what does the carb intake for you look like prior to and leading up to pre-judging?? Do you like mostly fats at those meals as well?

16 x lbm in kilos spread over 18 meals, eating every hour on the hour, water only with meals. I also use glucose disposal agents etc. The trick is to spread all those carbs over 18 meals if he tried to take in 1000 carbs at 5 meals he would certainly spill harder than to be expected as his body isnt used to taking large quantities at a sitting unless you practiced a similar protocol of loading.

I do white potato one meal sweets with rice cakes the next.

You could try half the load, he'd still get fairly full, just not to full potential.

I also taper water down and use Xpel double dose each day to keep water moving.

Thurs is 10 x and fri is 6 x lbm in kilos, water tapers 1 gallon to 1/2 gallon to then 1/4 gallon cut off at 8 pm friday night.

If you practice this protocol its imperative to not drink much all day long day of show.

On the day of the show I do pancakes in morning with 2 pats butter. About 70 grams twice, at 6 and 8.

Then just rice cakes and ANPB all day. After prejudging either 90% beef with sweet and two tbsp ANPB or i just go get a burger and fry. As long as I keep water out Im fine.

[hilly]

great info scooby

[-Z-]

I tried finding you at Lakewood, did you go? Who was your competitor?

[Youngguns]

What do you eat/ drink pre/ post workout during cutting?

[Scoobysnacks]

What do you eat/ drink pre/ post workout during cutting?

my next meal, lol. I dont buy into a lot of this crap, to be honest. I should post my pwo meal, I think you guys would be shocked its a shit ton of backed potato (350 grams), lean ground beef (150 grams) and as much broccoli as I want I also dont buy into telling someone to worry about weighing their veggies, they dont effect insulin and need as much energy to burn as they provide so I just eat a shit ton of it. My pre workout meal is eaten about 1.5 hrs prior and currently its 130 grams 99% lean ground turkey, 135 grams cooked brown rice, 2 fish oils and 2 Beverly liver tabs.

I do take some Glutamine and BCAA mix while training.

[th_vai]

Whats the most cardio u recommend in precontest?
How did u started in bodybuilding?
Where did u learned so much?
What do u think about diuretics?

That would be all, great thread, greetings from Mexico, GL in ur comming shows man!

[Myth]

What are your favorite veggie choices bro?

[hilly]

When dieting do you have people weigh their veg/salad or do you allow them to eat as much as you want. i am dieting at the moment and tend to stick to broccoli and green beans with salad thrown in every now and again. Im just curiouse if their s alimit you would set or just as much as the person wants to fill them up.

[Scoobysnacks]

I tried finding you at Lakewood, did you go? Who was your competitor?

I didnt go, its a four hour drive from my house one way.

Male bodybuilder, John Gillispie. took second in the bantams.

Ss

[Scoobysnacks]

Whats the most cardio u recommend in precontest?
How did u started in bodybuilding?
Where did u learned so much?
What do u think about diuretics?

That would be all, great thread, greetings from Mexico, GL in ur comming shows man!

1) As much as it takes, lol. Nah, usually up to 2 hrs per day of light intensity type work, heart rate no higher than 130 split into two sessions daily.
2) Well my dad was a bodybuilder in the 80s and I remember just thinking he was big. I was a good soccer player in high school, but lazy, wasted a lot of talent to be honest. Still went to college to play though, and when I got there they said you are lazy and you are to small, but have all the tools. They said get stronger or sit out, so I chose to get stronger, though by my junior year I enjoyed bodybuilding more than soccer and hated all that running as it was hindering my strength gains, so I quit to bodybuild.
3) Ive been in this sport for 12 years, much of what I know comes from my failures rather than my conquests. Every time I didnt perform as well as I wanted I sought out more and more knowledge and then applied it.
4) i use mild stuff like dand root or uva ursi or vit C thats all I think you will need if a) you are lean enough and b) you know how to manipulate water, carbs, sodium.

thanks for the well wishes on my show.

[Scoobysnacks]

What are your favorite veggie choices bro?

Right now Im killing the broccoli. I do like asparagus from time to time, but Im a big broccoli guy. I also will use spinach too. I think broc, spinach and asparagus are tops, but thats just me.

I like the fact broc has endols which are supposed to help the body rid itself of estrogen. Having more of my fat storage in the legs and glutes Ill take all the extra help I can get.:D

[Scoobysnacks]

When dieting do you have people weigh their veg/salad or do you allow them to eat as much as you want. i am dieting at the moment and tend to stick to broccoli and green beans with salad thrown in every now and again. Im just curiouse if their s alimit you would set or just as much as the person wants to fill them up.

I personally set no limit on greens, I just dont get it. They dont effect insulin and require as much energy to burn as they provide. Now they do add some protein and normally Im a big proponent of accounting for all macros, but I let this one slide, I guess all rules are meant to be broken.

I say eat up on the veggies. I find my women competitors are better about this, and there are times where they will actually start losing quicker deep into the prep. Ill ask what changed, they say Im eating veggies and tons of them now. Hmmmmmmm!

Ss

[Northman]

Scooby, if one works with you and he is assisted you must know this correct?

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby, if one works with you and he is assisted you must know this correct?

Yes I should.

[GirlyMuscle]

Scoob...

I apologize ahead of time if you've already covered this elsewhere.

I'm currently bulking (for real, not just eating like a piggie). I will start my diet on May 30the and I'm doing Dave's keto thing. For me the first three days after a cheat meal (even moderate) are hell with cravings and mood swings, I'm sure due to getting back into ketosis. I'm trying to figure out how to get into ketosis faster. Exercise? Chromium/vanadyl? (I know you have a supp for this) Can you tell me the dosage for a woman? any other suggestions?

[-Z-]

Scoob...

I apologize ahead of time if you've already covered this elsewhere.

I'm currently bulking (for real, not just eating like a piggie). I will start my diet on May 30the and I'm doing Dave's keto thing. For me the first three days after a cheat meal (even moderate) are hell with cravings and mood swings, I'm sure due to getting back into ketosis. I'm trying to figure out how to get into ketosis faster. Exercise? Chromium/vanadyl? (I know you have a supp for this) Can you tell me the dosage for a woman? any other suggestions?

^The response to this will be long, but well worth the read.

[GirlyMuscle]

^The response to this will be long, but well worth the read.I look forward to it. :D

[Scoobysnacks]

Scoob...

I apologize ahead of time if you've already covered this elsewhere.

I'm currently bulking (for real, not just eating like a piggie). I will start my diet on May 30the and I'm doing Dave's keto thing. For me the first three days after a cheat meal (even moderate) are hell with cravings and mood swings, I'm sure due to getting back into ketosis. I'm trying to figure out how to get into ketosis faster. Exercise? Chromium/vanadyl? (I know you have a supp for this) Can you tell me the dosage for a woman? any other suggestions?

GM, good question. Obviously the cravings and mood swings are from reintroducing carbs to your diet and being out of ketosis for to long. These symptoms though sound to me like someone who is greatly insulin insensitive or carb sensitive because most people are back in 24 hrs if that. Which is probably why you wisely chose the keto diet as your diet of choice. You probably have felt the bloat, sluggishness when you eat carbs all your life, am I right?

When you cheat Id do a double dose of my Slin Trol (only since you asked about it) which would be 20 mg vanadyl sulfate and 400 mcg of chromium POLYNICOTINATE. I know Myth does this with his large intake and swears by it. This will make your own insulin more productive and help clear/dispose of the glucose quicker.

My guess is the cheat meal is overloading your system (since you are insulin insensitive) and the sugars are sticking around in your blood stream rather than being disposed of into the muscle tissue where we want them. This causes you to stay out of ketosis for days and feel really ill/hazy/moody etc for a few more days.

After the meal is consumed you could also try to supplement with leucine for the rest of the evening which is known to help control blood sugar levels when ingested with glucose. Im not sure on dosage here, you may want to do a little of you own research here.

As far as exercise in theory that should make you more insulin sensitive so have an intense training session prior to the refeed. As for more exercise immediately after that would help to burn up some of that glycogen, but then again, isnt the point to refuel so you can work out harder, stronger, longer the whole week. Not to mention the thyroid benefits. I guess Id just hate to see you refuel for all those benefits to only have to do 45 mins of HIIT that night to be back to normal, seems like a zero sum game perhaps.

Now thats some of the OTC ways, there are things like Metaformin and glucophage, but I know nothing about them. So you would be doing your own research and dosing there.

I hope this helped some.

[Youngguns]

Can you see anything wrong with having oats/shake post workout and possibly another meal of the day? I know most people advocate whole foods...


I 170 5'8'', started dieting today. Going to do 20 minutes of low intensity after my workout. 300p, 250c, 60 fat for now, I will lower fat to 50 next week and 40 the week after. On cardio only days I'll take out one carb meal, bringing it down to 200g carbs on off days.

How does that sound?

[Scoobysnacks]

Can you see anything wrong with having oats/shake post workout and possibly another meal of the day? I know most people advocate whole foods...


I 170 5'8'', started dieting today. Going to do 20 minutes of low intensity after my workout. 300p, 250c, 60 fat for now, I will lower fat to 50 next week and 40 the week after. On cardio only days I'll take out one carb meal, bringing it down to 200g carbs on off days.

How does that sound?

Actually I see more people eating whey and waxy. Less doing whole foods. Im a whole foods myself.

But I dont see anything wrong with what you propose.

I think for 170 with what maybe 150 lbs LBM I think 300 pro is to much for natural, that is 2 x lbm, by all means give it a whirl, but I dont think you need that much. I personally do 1.75 to 1.5 and most natural I work with are set up on the same thing especially where you are keeping carbs in. If carbs were lower you may need all that protein. Carbs I think are spot on. Fats, what is that 20% of daily intake, dont lower them until weight loss stops.

You already have your gameplan but you DONT know what your body is going to do. Just see how it reacts before blindly saying well next week I drop these fats then more fats. See what I mean?

Otherwise its pretty solid, I just gave you some things to think about.

Ss

[Youngguns]

*thumbs up*

In reality I'm getting about 270-280 protein. 3 whole meals and two shakes/oatmeal. 5 whole meals is too expensive and time consuming if you're just getting beach ready.

Also, do you eat blueberries, apples or raspberries while dieting? On that note, any fruit? Why or why not?

Razor Ripped said apples, blueberries are ok and I know someone pretty successful useing raspberries daily.

I used them last time to cut and it went great, I didn't get down to a very low bodyfat but for the initial loss it worked great.

[GirlyMuscle]

Thank you, Scoob. I'll give that a try when the dieting starts.

[Scoobysnacks]

*thumbs up*

In reality I'm getting about 270-280 protein. 3 whole meals and two shakes/oatmeal. 5 whole meals is too expensive and time consuming if you're just getting beach ready.

Also, do you eat blueberries, apples or raspberries while dieting? On that note, any fruit? Why or why not?

Razor Ripped said apples, blueberries are ok and I know someone pretty successful useing raspberries daily.

I used them last time to cut and it went great, I didn't get down to a very low bodyfat but for the initial loss it worked great.

blueberries every morning for me, 15 grams in weight worth it aint much but its tasty and gives much needed anti oxidants.

I also think grapefruit and strawberries work well.

[Myth]

When you cheat Id do a double dose of my Slin Trol (only since you asked about it) which would be 20 mg vanadyl sulfate and 400 mcg of chromium POLYNICOTINATE. I know Myth does this with his large intake and swears by it. This will make your own insulin more productive and help clear/dispose of the glucose quicker.


TRUTH! I take my GDAs 30 minutes prior to my massive refeed meals of 600-900g carbs, and my blood sugar never gets above the 150s. I've honestly never seen it hit 160. Of course a lot of this has to do with the intensity and volume of my training and weekly diet, but I know for a fact that the GDAs help out because I have tested my blood sugar with and without them:)

[Scoobysnacks]

TRUTH! I take my GDAs 30 minutes prior to my massive refeed meals of 600-900g carbs, and my blood sugar never gets above the 150s. I've honestly never seen it hit 160. Of course a lot of this has to do with the intensity and volume of my training and weekly diet, but I know for a fact that the GDAs help out because I have tested my blood sugar with and without them:)

Buddy Im glad you saw this and weighed in, thanks for that.

BTW, how did the show turn out for ya?

Ss

[Koubs]

Ss: What do you recommend as far as sodium manipulation as you near the show?? Do you recommend keeping it high throughout the prep, and then cutting it at a certain point?? If so, when?? If not, do you do anything differently as far as that is concerned??

[Scoobysnacks]

Ss: What do you recommend as far as sodium manipulation as you near the show?? Do you recommend keeping it high throughout the prep, and then cutting it at a certain point?? If so, when?? If not, do you do anything differently as far as that is concerned??

well it depends...man I say that a lot dont I?

The first part is easy, I add 1/4 tsp of sea salt to all meals plus tons of mustard on my taters and turkey and beef patties. Eggs, etc, my sodium intake is pretty high.

The depends part differs depending on how Im doing things the final week. It could be anywhere from 5-3 days (pulling sea salt) depending on the person Im prepping and the carb load they can handle.

[Youngguns]

What GDA do you recommend? When do you take them?

[Scoobysnacks]

What GDA do you recommend? When do you take them?

Is that a softball, lol.

I of course use my own product Slin Trol. Its 10mg Van Sulfate and 200 mcg chromium polynicotinate, so how could i recommend anything else.

I also use glutamine as a gda of sorts, its weak but I do use it that way.

Take one slin trol with each white potato meals (2 per day) and the one tab with meals 1 and meal 6. At beginning of meal or even 10 mins prior.

You could purchase them separate too, but that was getting to be a pain in the ass to all the people I work with, so due to popular demand I made Slin Trol.

But dont take my word for it, get a glucometer and run some tests on different GDAs and see what you get.

There is r-ALA, gymnestra (sp?), chrom/van combo, glutamine and Im sure others Im leaving off.

You asked, lol.

Ss

[Myth]

Buddy Im glad you saw this and weighed in, thanks for that.

BTW, how did the show turn out for ya?

Ss
I think I was AS or MORE ripped than anyone else in my class, AND I was the heaviest guy by at least 4lbs. But the judges looked past that and wanted solid genetics as the prerequisite foundation, so I had no chance.

[Vargasty]

Hey Scooby or Myth, feel free to answer this question:

I am in the Navy and have finally settled down in San Diego where I will be stationed for two years. My job is a military police officer, which is pretty easy and I do not need to worry about deploying. I got really out of shape at bootcamp and estimate that I have about 20-30 lbs. to loose give or take. I am 220 lbs. right now and I do not have a set date to do so, but would like to be back in shape in 6 months, give or take. Here is the diet I plan to follow:
Cardio-1 hr. low intensity walking
Meal 1.) 60 g whey Isolate, 1 cup oatmeal
Meal 2.) 7 oz. chicken breast, 1 oz. almonds
Meal 3.) 60 g whey Isolate, 1 cup oatmeal.
Meal 4.) 7. oz. chicken breast, 1 oz. almonds
Meal 5.) 7 oz. top round steak, 1/2 cup brown rice
Training- 1 hr. weights, 1 hr. low intensity cardio
Meal 6 .) PWO 80 g Vitargo, 60g whey Isolate.

I am flirting between this and Dave's keto diet. The only reason I am hesitant on the keto diet is I love to train and train high volume. I have no problem doing the extra cardio to stay full and still eat card but if you guys think I could still train high volume on the keto diet, I'd go that route in a heart beat. Thanks in advance...

[Scoobysnacks]

Hey Scooby or Myth, feel free to answer this question:

I am in the Navy and have finally settled down in San Diego where I will be stationed for two years. My job is a military police officer, which is pretty easy and I do not need to worry about deploying. I got really out of shape at bootcamp and estimate that I have about 20-30 lbs. to loose give or take. I am 220 lbs. right now and I do not have a set date to do so, but would like to be back in shape in 6 months, give or take. Here is the diet I plan to follow:
Cardio-1 hr. low intensity walking
Meal 1.) 60 g whey Isolate, 1 cup oatmeal
Meal 2.) 7 oz. chicken breast, 1 oz. almonds
Meal 3.) 60 g whey Isolate, 1 cup oatmeal.
Meal 4.) 7. oz. chicken breast, 1 oz. almonds
Meal 5.) 7 oz. top round steak, 1/2 cup brown rice
Training- 1 hr. weights, 1 hr. low intensity cardio
Meal 6 .) PWO 80 g Vitargo, 60g whey Isolate.

I am flirting between this and Dave's keto diet. The only reason I am hesitant on the keto diet is I love to train and train high volume. I have no problem doing the extra cardio to stay full and still eat card but if you guys think I could still train high volume on the keto diet, I'd go that route in a heart beat. Thanks in advance...

Im not a keto guy UNLESS someone is TRULY carb sensitive, and you will know it because the minute you put them on carbs, they bloat, feel sluggish, overall shitty and their weight usually goes up pretty quickly. Now some are slightly so and I can control that with GDAs, Ill put them on my Slin Trol product and timed glutamine, perhaps ALA etc.

The fact you like to train high volume, will be running etc, I prefer a carb diet for you without knowing anything else about you.

I think the diet is fine, its a bit high protein for my likes. I like 1.5 x lbm for a natural spread evenly over the days meals, you may like 5, 6, 7 meals, etc. and 1.75 to 2 x LBM for assisted athletes. And I usually start someone with carbs at all meals, perhaps not meal 6 depending on the person, amount of fat, etc. Then start plucking as weight loss stalls to the point you may just be getting morning, pre and pwo carbs. With refeeds on legs days or something along those lines.

The basic layout has merit and thought put into so all I can say is give it a run. Do you know the macros of it. if i did I could better advice based on how I do things.

Good Luck with it.

Ss

[Vargasty]

Im not a keto guy UNLESS someone is TRULY carb sensitive, and you will know it because the minute you put them on carbs, they bloat, feel sluggish, overall shitty and their weight usually goes up pretty quickly. Now some are slightly so and I can control that with GDAs, Ill put them on my Slin Trol product and timed glutamine, perhaps ALA etc.

The fact you like to train high volume, will be running etc, I prefer a carb diet for you without knowing anything else about you.

I think the diet is fine, its a bit high protein for my likes. I like 1.5 x lbm for a natural spread evenly over the days meals, you may like 5, 6, 7 meals, etc. and 1.75 to 2 x LBM for assisted athletes. And I usually start someone with carbs at all meals, perhaps not meal 6 depending on the person, amount of fat, etc. Then start plucking as weight loss stalls to the point you may just be getting morning, pre and pwo carbs. With refeeds on legs days or something along those lines.

The basic layout has merit and thought put into so all I can say is give it a run. Do you know the macros of it. if i did I could better advice based on how I do things.

Good Luck with it.

Ss
Well the whey Isolate it only 90% protein plus it has flavoring so I will say it has 50 g of protein and 7 oz. of cooked meat is between 50-60 g of protein, depending on the source you read. That is about 300-320 g of protein when I have a lean body mass of 180 lbs. I guess I could switch it to 1/2 cup of brown rice or a packet of oatmeal with every meal except pwo, which would bring me to a total of 250g of carbs. Pretty moderate, I have seen people get ripped on 400g and on 0 g of carbs.

[MDur8]

What are your thoughts on implementing day long High Carb/low fat refeed once a week, using a low carbohydrate diet the other 6 days a week.

[Scoobysnacks]

What are your thoughts on implementing day long High Carb/low fat refeed once a week, using a low carbohydrate diet the other 6 days a week.

It has its place. I personally as an ecto dont diet that way, why if I dont have to. But, for endos I think it has merit.

[GENESIS]

I personally carb up all day on weds and then clean up the spillage on Thurs and Fri by decreasing carbs and decreasing water some as the days progress. Friday is more of a fat loading day than carb loading day for me. But my main protocol is to over carb on Weds then clean up Thurs and Fri. It may look like this 1000, 700 thurs, 250 fri with a fat load of about 130 grams fat from natural pb. Water going gallon, 1/2 and 1/4, cut off around 7pm, none on day of show except sips and 10-20 oz right before prejudging.


Ss
wow i really like this idea....

fucking smart move..

[tornquad2]

whats your split look like #2 how many sets per bodypart #3 rep range #4 how many sets taken to failure not counting warm ups

[Scoobysnacks]

whats your split look like #2 how many sets per bodypart #3 rep range #4 how many sets taken to failure not counting warm ups

It changes a lot.

Currenty 2 on 1 off 2 on 2 off.

legs
Chest/tri
rest
back/bi
shoulders/abs/calves

4 sets usually, 3 working, I choose a weight that I can get at least 6 and no more than 12, if its to light I go until I fail. All three sets are to failure. I keep things simple and sometimes instinctive, especially now when Im training for a show.

[dajossel]

Scooby,

I was wondering if you could help me with this question. I am 3.5 weeks out from my first show and all is going well, but I am confused about depletion (if I even need it) Do you recommend depleting carbs and sodium before you load on both? If so what is your protocol? I was thinking if I do carb load I will do it extremely conservative (maybe starting on thursday night) so I dont mess things up after dieting so hard. What do you suggest eating morning of the show, as well as after prejudging?

Thanks

Darren

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby,

I was wondering if you could help me with this question. I am 3.5 weeks out from my first show and all is going well, but I am confused about depletion (if I even need it) Do you recommend depleting carbs and sodium before you load on both? If so what is your protocol? I was thinking if I do carb load I will do it extremely conservative (maybe starting on thursday night) so I dont mess things up after dieting so hard. What do you suggest eating morning of the show, as well as after prejudging?

Thanks

Darren

what is your current carb intake, did you diet keto or on carbs. That will be an issue to deal with. If you did diet keto did you take big refeeds, if so, how many carbs. If didnt diet keto what was the most and lowest starchy carb intakes.

Are you currently sea salting or adding salt to your foods.

For newbs I recommend a cautious approach, different from what id probably do with someone I work with. Answer those questions.

Ss

[dajossel]

what is your current carb intake, did you diet keto or on carbs. That will be an issue to deal with. If you did diet keto did you take big refeeds, if so, how many carbs. If didnt diet keto what was the most and lowest starchy carb intakes.

Are you currently sea salting or adding salt to your foods.

For newbs I recommend a cautious approach, different from what id probably do with someone I work with. Answer those questions.

Ss

Right now my carb intake is 70g per day all coming from brown rice ( so I am dieting with carbs) I have not been refeeding out of pure paranoia so I figure I should finish out the prep the same way (unless you think otherwise) I dont salt any of my foods currently. The only salt I get is from almonds which I use as my fat source. I want to remain cautious and come in as best as I can. What are your suggestions.

Thanks

Darren

[Scoobysnacks]

Right now my carb intake is 70g per day all coming from brown rice ( so I am dieting with carbs) I have not been refeeding out of pure paranoia so I figure I should finish out the prep the same way (unless you think otherwise) I dont salt any of my foods currently. The only salt I get is from almonds which I use as my fat source. I want to remain cautious and come in as best as I can. What are your suggestions.

Thanks

Darren

Im going to try to keep this simple, give you some things to think about and understand so you can go from there.

I hope you started to add the sea salt to each meal, I like to go with 1/4 tsp but really it doestn matter, just add it to each meal. Like I said you have time to get your body used to this, after a couple days it will adjust and be just as dry as it was prior, thats what you want.

Now since I dont see you and I havent worked with you it would be ill advised of me to give you a specific plan. So Ill talk general numbers and ballpack figures.

Also note, this is not how I do things with my clients or myself, but its simple and will be just enough to create a nice fuller and drier look without going to nuts. This being your first show it doesnt sound like you have a full grasp on how all this works.

You should know water, carbs, sodium and potassium levels all come into play here.

Sodium controls and pushes the extracellular fluid. Potassium controls and drives the intracellular fluid (ie inside the muscle). So it would serve to reason you want to create a deficit of sodium slightly while increasing potassium. Now some will use potassium pills and all that nonense, I think its outdated. I simply use white potatoe and sweet, but sense I doubt you prepped on white potato may not want to introduce that. Sweets should be fine. Could do sweets and some rice.

Okay water, again you dont want to go crazy cutting it but you want to create a deficit. So get it high earlier in the week, perhaps two gallons until Tues, then Weds, 1.5, Thurs will be 1 and Fri will be 1/2 to 3/4 and stop drinking water at 6-7pm Fri night other than sips as needed.

Foods. Carbs....

You could probably go 3-4 x your 70 carb amount on Weds, then 2-3 x that on Thurs and 2 x that on Friday with a bit more fats to hold the load. use almond butter or something like that.

Sodium Id stop adding the sea salt Thurs morning, this will create a lower sodium environment than the load on weds, which isnt all that much carbs to be honest, but will fill you out some, then the next day you will create the deficit in sodium that will cause a flushing. Then just get the sodium from what is in your foods. Doing it this way will mean you wont have to change all you meats and foods to low sodium etc, I dont like that approach.

For your carb meals id keep them smaller in amount and larger in frequency and number. So instead of doing 4 meals of 90 carbs or whatever Id spread them out to 8-10 meals on Thurs and 8 meals Thurs and Fri. Something liek that. I find that the body will spill less if you dont go crazy with large amounts at one meal.

There is a protocol where you fill and spill but I dont think you are really ready for that, especially given the fact you have never tested it this prep and arent evne refeeding.

Also, note, at 70 grams you are flat as a board I dont think you need to do anything else to deplete before the load, except if your fats are very high you could drop those the few days prior.

[dajossel]

Scooby thanks for all the help, youve been incredible thus far. Two questions when you state "you could probably go 3-4x your 70 carb amount wednesday" does this mean I could multiply 70 grams by 3 to 4? Also what is the protocol for day of the show? What would you suggest I eat upon waking, and what should I eat in between prejudging and the night show.

Thank you once again,

Darren

[Jaredmus]

Hey SS, just wanted to say thanks to you my contest prep has been very smooth sailing losing a consistent 1.5 lbs a week, adding broccolli to most of my meals, just wondering what is typical salt manipulation for the final week

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby thanks for all the help, youve been incredible thus far. Two questions when you state "you could probably go 3-4x your 70 carb amount wednesday" does this mean I could multiply 70 grams by 3 to 4? Also what is the protocol for day of the show? What would you suggest I eat upon waking, and what should I eat in between prejudging and the night show.

Thank you once again,

Darren

Yes thats what I mean 3 to 4 x your carb intake. 70 x 3 or 4. Once you shut water off fri and continue to flush, if you wake up dry just keep eating carbs, smaller frequent carb feedings, sweet potatoes are great with bites of protein, the protein is not really needed that day, I do it to fill me up, but just nibble the protein. I just dont let myself get hungry...then sip water all day as needed.

[Scoobysnacks]

Hey SS, just wanted to say thanks to you my contest prep has been very smooth sailing losing a consistent 1.5 lbs a week, adding broccolli to most of my meals, just wondering what is typical salt manipulation for the final week

You are welcome.

As for salt manipulation, the only thing I can say as to what is "typical" is that you want to create a slight deficit, how you do it, VARIES, so much..... and depends on your final week plan.

Good LUck

Ss

[dajossel]

I know a lot of people eat junk backstage such as M&Ms and stuff so the simple carbs fill them out. Also on another thread a lot of people say they go out to eat a meal such as burgers and fries after prejudging. Based on what you told me im assuming you do not do these things or suggest them?

[Scoobysnacks]

I know a lot of people eat junk backstage such as M&Ms and stuff so the simple carbs fill them out. Also on another thread a lot of people say they go out to eat a meal such as burgers and fries after prejudging. Based on what you told me im assuming you do not do these things or suggest them?

depends, but no I dont sit there and eat shit all day, lol. Id be ill. You can add some simple sugars at pump up for vascularity, but dont go nuts. What I do actually is when they line us up I pop a little packet of syrup that I pick up from Waffle House, this shit hits quick and will make you veiny, so do it when in line and just chuck the container to the nearest garbage can.

As for a burger and fry, Ive done this sometimes depends on my conditioning and how Im feeling. Ill pack 5 oz 90% beef, 7 oz sweet and 2-3 tbsp of pb in case Id prefer a clean meal. It gets a lot of the same macros in you with less sodium.

Ive found once Im dry there is very little that will screw me up on the day of, with water being the only exception, go chugging it and you will spill over some. This will be debated back and forth, but this is how I see it.

Being lean and dry are two different things. Get shredded then get dry different look than just shredded of somsone who is pounding water. But, this will be debated over and over too.

[Jaredmus]

Thanks,

Im def doing the long island show may 30 and depending on placing doing the atlantic states which is june 6th, but if i want to do the empire states which is July 18 what do i do for that 7 weeks in btwn? What kind of diet do i follow and cardio? Is it worth not doing the atlantic states and then doing the northeast grand prix july 11 and then doing the empire states july 18?

[Scoobysnacks]

Thanks,

Im def doing the long island show may 30 and depending on placing doing the atlantic states which is june 6th, but if i want to do the empire states which is July 18 what do i do for that 7 weeks in btwn? What kind of diet do i follow and cardio? Is it worth not doing the atlantic states and then doing the northeast grand prix july 11 and then doing the empire states july 18?

Those are all personal calls on what shows to do. If you can hold diet that long then in the 7 weeks I would keep it clean and back off cardio some for the first 2-3 weeks, but not cheat and stay on your diet. At 4 weeks out put the cardio back in with little diet manipulations and you should best your prior conditioning, if you dont stick to the diet and gain fat then you may need to manipulate diet and add the cardio.

Either way Id treat it like a prep, but since you should be in shape already you can scale back on cardio and just keep eating clean.

[dajossel]

The more I read the post on the carb loading technique you gave me I am confusing myself. So if the wednesday is 3 to 4 x 70 on wednesday then lets say I eat 210g of carbs that day. Then the next day 2 x 3 times the 210 from the previous day, and the same the day after? so by friday I am eating around 600 g of carbs? Please let me know if i interpreted this right or wrong.

[Scoobysnacks]

The more I read the post on the carb loading technique you gave me I am confusing myself. So if the wednesday is 3 to 4 x 70 on wednesday then lets say I eat 210g of carbs that day. Then the next day 2 x 3 times the 210 from the previous day, and the same the day after? so by friday I am eating around 600 g of carbs? Please let me know if i interpreted this right or wrong.

WHAT??? How in the hell did you get that.

3 to 4 x 70; 2 to 3 x 70, 2 x 70. Why would you multiply it each day by the new carb amount?????? LOL!

[dajossel]

haha my bad man you said for the wed. 3-4x 70 then you said the next day 2-3 x THAT. I thought that meant the previous days amount, I was thinking shit thats insane (thus why I asked). Ive been adding the sea salt to my diet, 1/4 tsp for 4 of my meals per day, at what point will i dry out again, its been like 3 days. Again youve been amazing thank you so much for everything.

[Scoobysnacks]

haha my bad man you said for the wed. 3-4x 70 then you said the next day 2-3 x THAT. I thought that meant the previous days amount, I was thinking shit thats insane (thus why I asked). Ive been adding the sea salt to my diet, 1/4 tsp for 4 of my meals per day, at what point will i dry out again, its been like 3 days. Again youve been amazing thank you so much for everything.

you wont dry out until you pull it, go back to the plan I laid out, arent you like two weeks out now, you dont get dry now you get dry when you pull that and keep eating those carbs and watch you water etc.

See original plan. Right now your body will simply adjust to the extra intake after a couple days and you'll be a bit fuller and maybe a tad more water by night, but shouldnt be an issue.

[dajossel]

So I was just came across skip's thread and saw that you asked him a question about sodium levels. I believe that he feels that your sodium levels just need to be lower than they were prior to excrete water. He also said if you cut the sodium very low you will become very flat. If I end up cutting my sodium on Thursday morning will I still come in full then with the plan you gave me? Youve really been a great help seeing as this is my first show, thanks again man.

[Scoobysnacks]

So I was just came across skip's thread and saw that you asked him a question about sodium levels. I believe that he feels that your sodium levels just need to be lower than they were prior to excrete water. He also said if you cut the sodium very low you will become very flat. If I end up cutting my sodium on Thursday morning will I still come in full then with the plan you gave me? Youve really been a great help seeing as this is my first show, thanks again man.

thats skips plan. If you want to skipload you can, but like I said you NEVER practiced a load.

His plan works because during the shit load your sodium is VERY high, so when you get back to your prior diet (even if you were salting foods) you created a shift to a lower level which will create a drying out effect.

I gave you a safe plan that you wont spill but you probably wont be your fullest either.

BTW I NEVER said cut sodium completely I actually told you you DONT want to do that. Why do you think I said start sea salting your foods then simply remove that? You arent cutting sodium out completely, you are creating a shift by dropping the sea salt, your normal foods without that added salt will still have plenty...see what I mean?

Ss

Ss

[dajossel]

How do you handle your lifting and cardio when you are 1 week out?

[Scoobysnacks]

How do you handle your lifting and cardio when you are 1 week out?

I rest the friday (8 days out) from show. Then I train straight Sat-Tues to deplete. Load up and rest Weds, Thurs, Fri. Just pose Weds-Fri, compete SAt. The legs will be trained that Sat at 70%. Then Sun-Tues for rest of body pretty heavy as usual. HIIT cardio if its being done is stopped 9 days out. Will do Liss up to Tues.

May do some pushups and pull ups and posing on Fri (one day out) to help shift the water balance but nothing major.

Ss

[dajossel]

When I begin carbing up on the Weds. I plan on using the sweet potato like you said, is this alright though seeing as I have only used brown rice during prep? Also when you say you to LISS up till Tuesday does this mean monday is your last session or tuesday is your last session? Thanks

[Scoobysnacks]

When I begin carbing up on the Weds. I plan on using the sweet potato like you said, is this alright though seeing as I have only used brown rice during prep? Also when you say you to LISS up till Tuesday does this mean monday is your last session or tuesday is your last session? Thanks

have sweets ever bothered you? This is you call you can roll with rice if you want, Im not gonna make this call, Im not working with you.

LISS through tues, then rest Weds-Sat with only posing etc.

[dajossel]

Scooby ill admit it, I think I started this prep way to close into the show. I guess I was somewhat cocky about my fast metabolism and on the other hand a bit ignorant. I have untill may 30th so just over 2 weeks. While I feel id be able to hang at this point im just not cofident id be able to win. In a time such as this would you lower cals or raise cardio or both? Untill i hear back I think I am going to try both of these things lowering my calories from fats and keeping the higher cals from protein. Also in a very...I dont even know the word...question what percentage better do you normally look once the water has been flushed from your system? Sorry that I bombard you with questions man, I just relate to you well as a ecto as well and greatly admire the physique you have built.

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby ill admit it, I think I started this prep way to close into the show. I guess I was somewhat cocky about my fast metabolism and on the other hand a bit ignorant. I have untill may 30th so just over 2 weeks. While I feel id be able to hang at this point im just not cofident id be able to win. In a time such as this would you lower cals or raise cardio or both? Untill i hear back I think I am going to try both of these things lowering my calories from fats and keeping the higher cals from protein. Also in a very...I dont even know the word...question what percentage better do you normally look once the water has been flushed from your system? Sorry that I bombard you with questions man, I just relate to you well as a ecto as well and greatly admire the physique you have built.

Its a learning process, just do the show.

Depends on how far behind. You doing morning light steady state cardio out of bed on emtpy stomach, if not add that each and every day, if so, add another 30 mins to it.

Do some HIIT on off days, surround a carb meal at least after it.

Id keep protein constant, drop the carbs some and probably time them at this point. Morning, then pre workout and pwo or morning, pwo and ppwo.

Sounds like you need to hustle. Id also supplement some BCAA before and after training if you are really going to be pushing it here.

Good Luck

[tonyaskew]

Scooby,

Are you big on the use of GDA's?

If so what is your preference?

Do you use them in the off season, or only during prep?

Sorry if this has been asked. I have not read the whole thread yet?

Thx

[dajossel]

I do 55 min LISS in the morning and I just started (about 4 days ago) 30 min post workout. Do you think this newly added 30 min pwo will help clean things up?

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby,

Are you big on the use of GDA's?

If so what is your preference?

Do you use them in the off season, or only during prep?

Sorry if this has been asked. I have not read the whole thread yet?

Thx

Tony,

Yes I like GDAs, I mean anytime I can use less insulin and take in more carbs and potentially get more to the muscle cell Im a fan:D

I use my slin trol product for cutting, and large calorie bulking phases, when I do a maintenance phase where protien to carbs is 2:1 I usally take off from most GDAs.

I also like r-ALA, glutamine, gynema slyvestre (sp?) and Lean Out by Beverly Nutrition.

[Scoobysnacks]

I do 55 min LISS in the morning and I just started (about 4 days ago) 30 min post workout. Do you think this newly added 30 min pwo will help clean things up?

Yes the addition of the 30 mins will help, but what are you doing in evenings on off days, if behind use HIIT about 5-6pm when get off work. Then follow up with a few carbs to keep the furnace burning.

[dajossel]

would i want a fast digesting carb to restore the glycogen? I am a little confused about how carbs right after would maintain a fat burning state. What type of carb do you use after HIIT?

[tonyaskew]

Tony,

Yes I like GDAs, I mean anytime I can use less insulin and take in more carbs and potentially get more to the muscle cell Im a fan:D

I use my slin trol product for cutting, and large calorie bulking phases, when I do a maintenance phase where protien to carbs is 2:1 I usally take off from most GDAs.

I also like r-ALA, glutamine, gynema slyvestre (sp?) and Lean Out by Beverly Nutrition.


Thanks for the info. I read the whole thread after I posted and realized you are a fan.

I am in the off season.

My intake is as follows.

175g protein per day
340g carbs per day.

I do not add fat. Only the traces found in my lean protein meats.

Every third day I am eating 510g carbs. That is 3x my body weight. My goal is to gain very solid lean mass.

Should I use a GDA on this day?

Is there anything wrong with taking about 400mg of chromium with the 1st meal of the day?

Thx bro. Great thread.

[Scoobysnacks]

Thanks for the info. I read the whole thread after I posted and realized you are a fan.

I am in the off season.

My intake is as follows.

175g protein per day
340g carbs per day.

I do not add fat. Only the traces found in my lean protein meats.

Every third day I am eating 510g carbs. That is 3x my body weight. My goal is to gain very solid lean mass.

Should I use a GDA on this day?

Is there anything wrong with taking about 400mg of chromium with the 1st meal of the day?

Thx bro. Great thread.

You must be pretty darn ecto as well. Those look fairly close to my offseason, though I actually up protein to around 225 and a little less carbs, especially on off days.

I like the refeed day.

I think using gdas with any carb meal will help you stave off some fat gain while pounding the calories.

400 MCG of chrom is okay but NOT 400 MG.

[tonyaskew]

You must be pretty darn ecto as well. Those look fairly close to my offseason, though I actually up protein to around 225 and a little less carbs, especially on off days.

I like the refeed day.

I think using gdas with any carb meal will help you stave off some fat gain while pounding the calories.

400 MCG of chrom is okay but NOT 400 MG.


I am pretty ecto.

On my off days I do actually drop my carbs to about 275g, and up my pro to about 225.

Ok, MCG.....Is taking 200mcg pre ANY carb meal ok? Meaning taking that about 4-5 times a day?

[Scoobysnacks]

I am pretty ecto.

On my off days I do actually drop my carbs to about 275g, and up my pro to about 225.

Ok, MCG.....Is taking 200mcg pre ANY carb meal ok? Meaning taking that about 4-5 times a day?

Id limit it to around 200 mcg 4 x daily. No more than that and use Chrom POLYNICOTINATE, not PICOLINATE. Do some research on both and see what you find about safety.

[tonyaskew]

Id limit it to around 200 mcg 4 x daily. No more than that and use Chrom POLYNICOTINATE, not PICOLINATE. Do some research on both and see what you find about safety.


Got it, thank you!

[dajossel]

My last post was small so I think you may have skipped over it by mistake but what I wanted to know was what type of carb to use after the HIIT and a ball park figure of the amount. Since you told me I cut my carbs back by 20g to 50g total daily, is this enough?

[Scoobysnacks]

would i want a fast digesting carb to restore the glycogen? I am a little confused about how carbs right after would maintain a fat burning state. What type of carb do you use after HIIT?

HIIT burns glycogen as a fuel source so a fast way to burn muscle is to do HIIT and not follow up with carbs, would you train and not have carbs pwo? Some might but I never would. How much after, this is for you to determine.

Im not doing your diet and I dont even know how many carbs you are taking in. I would do sweet potato or brown rice or something like that.

Ss

[dajossel]

Ss, I have been looking over the forum about the day of the show and a lot of people have very different views. Some say fat is necassary on the day of, others sugar. Whats your take? From my understanding the protocol is to eat every 2 hours and assess your body before deciding what the next feeding should be. My problem is I have no idea how long it takes for the body to react to a food you put into it. Also how do I know if my body needs more fats the day of? So if I ate breakfast at 6 am by what time should I see the results of that meal in terms of fullness? Also what ratio do you like to keep with your backstage meals? Thank you again for all your help

[Scoobysnacks]

Ss, I have been looking over the forum about the day of the show and a lot of people have very different views. Some say fat is necassary on the day of, others sugar. Whats your take? From my understanding the protocol is to eat every 2 hours and assess your body before deciding what the next feeding should be. My problem is I have no idea how long it takes for the body to react to a food you put into it. Also how do I know if my body needs more fats the day of? So if I ate breakfast at 6 am by what time should I see the results of that meal in terms of fullness? Also what ratio do you like to keep with your backstage meals? Thank you again for all your help

I hate to say it depends, but it depends.

But in general if you wake liking what you see Id eat my normal diet and perhaps add some extra fats to maintain the fullness all day. Especially if diet was low fat to begin with. Perhaps some almond butter with meals.

Dont make this to complicated.......Ive done simply rice cakes, pb and few bites chicken throughout the day. Why? Its easy. Then went and got burger and fry and lunch with nothing to drink. And looked fine. By the day of the show you better be ready and carbs and some fats are way more important than protein at that point, and actually protein can bloat you and make it hard to blow out and get the tiny waist etc.

If you are waiting until the day of to improve your look subtantially you are probably screwed.

Ive seen some guys keep a meatball sub from subway in their bag, if they are flat they eat that, why? Carbs, fat from that crappy meat and plenty of sodium from the sauce.

Ss

[BigBilly]

I hAVE A question about quantify for nationals/USAs. After you quantify to go to nats, is there is a time limt on when you have to compete and what shows you can not do?

if i quaifited for nat this year, could i take 2yrs off and add more size and then do the show and maybe do a local show in between

[dajossel]

So i am debating when to start the 2 gallon water load. Would you start it on friday (8 days out) or saturday?

[DCHMUSCLE88]

Hey, I have a show soon and I had a question about carbing up. Would nutella and rice cakes be good to carb up on the day of the show, or is the fat content to high in the nutella? Also is it normal during your prep for your condition to appear worse later in the day?

[dajossel]

Also another question, how do you know if what you have left on your body is Sub-Q water or Sub-Q fat?

[Scoobysnacks]

I hAVE A question about quantify for nationals/USAs. After you quantify to go to nats, is there is a time limt on when you have to compete and what shows you can not do?

if i quaifited for nat this year, could i take 2yrs off and add more size and then do the show and maybe do a local show in between

not anymore you have to use it within a year of earning it. stupid if you ask me, but thats the new rule. Not to be an ass, but just so you know how to properly inquire about it with someone, its called qualifying, not quantifying, I think the latter is some sort of math term, lol. Again not ripping you just informing you.

[Scoobysnacks]

So i am debating when to start the 2 gallon water load. Would you start it on friday (8 days out) or saturday?

It wont matter much just start drinking a good bit you could start sunday as long as fri and sat you still drink plenty of water.

[Scoobysnacks]

Hey, I have a show soon and I had a question about carbing up. Would nutella and rice cakes be good to carb up on the day of the show, or is the fat content to high in the nutella? Also is it normal during your prep for your condition to appear worse later in the day?

Never used nutella and rice cakes, i think there are better choices, to carb up the DAY OF you usually want sodium, fats and carbs, so I guess it would suffice, assuming your water at this point is low or controlled. But just go it slow and assess from there.

Yes you will alwys be drier in the morning.

[Scoobysnacks]

Also another question, how do you know if what you have left on your body is Sub-Q water or Sub-Q fat?

assess yourself in morning, if its still there its fat. ALWAYS assume its fat, holding water, eh.

[dajossel]

After i stop my cardio and lifting on tuesday im just interested to know if my metabolism will still be working as well. Its hard to phrase but I guess im asking will my body still be burning fat at a decent rate in that last week? Also just a small thing, I read a while back on DP's old section on the MD boards, that if you pinch an area on your body and can feel a grainy sort of substance that is fat, if its smooth its water. Is there any truth to that?

[Scoobysnacks]

After i stop my cardio and lifting on tuesday im just interested to know if my metabolism will still be working as well. Its hard to phrase but I guess im asking will my body still be burning fat at a decent rate in that last week? Also just a small thing, I read a while back on DP's old section on the MD boards, that if you pinch an area on your body and can feel a grainy sort of substance that is fat, if its smooth its water. Is there any truth to that?

you shouldnt expect to lose any fat the final week to be honest if you are, you are hurting and mistimed your prep.

Some truth to that, if its grainy feeling fat if not it should just feel like skin, then yes some water could be under there.....

[dajossel]

What do you think of taking an OTC diuretic such as taraxatone by cytogenix starting about 5 days out?

[Scoobysnacks]

What do you think of taking an OTC diuretic such as taraxatone by cytogenix starting about 5 days out?


never five days out thats asking for issues. you cant trick your body that long.

Im gonna be honest with you. It sounds like you are behind in your prep and hoping for miracles here.

There arent any shortcuts with this stuff. If you want to taraxatone you can start Thurs perhaps or even Fri...but not five days out.

Ss

[dajossel]

I am looking alright but a tiny bit behind (at least in my opinion). I am holding a decent amount of water in my arms (I know this because I had a much bigger pump about 5 weeks out) So i am assuming the sea salt has been making me retain extra water. Ill come in to the show competitive but like I said not sure if ill be a top placer. If i start the taraxatone thursday should I use it twice a day as directed?

[Scoobysnacks]

I am looking alright but a tiny bit behind (at least in my opinion). I am holding a decent amount of water in my arms (I know this because I had a much bigger pump about 5 weeks out) So i am assuming the sea salt has been making me retain extra water. Ill come in to the show competitive but like I said not sure if ill be a top placer. If i start the taraxatone thursday should I use it twice a day as directed?

once you drop the sea salt you will dry out well that was the point. Dont overdo the taraxatone, its simply to keep the water moving.

Ss

[gymrat9929]

Jason-

Im plannig on carbing up on Thrusday and Friday next week for Mayhem. Im going to eat 900 grams on Thursday of a combination of sweet potatos, rice, rice cakes, and low fat cereal/pop tarts. Friday will be all sweet potatos and one large bowl of oatmeal in the morning. My question is How much water should I consume on these two days. I know it takes 3 grams of water to seat 1 gram of carbs but shouldn't i drink less than that to make sure I pull water from sub-c into the muscle?

My plan was to do 2 gallons of water from Sunday -Wednesday and then 3 liters on Thursday and 2 liters on Friday with water being shut off by 8 pm.

How does this sound? What adjustments would you make?

Thanks brotha!

[Scoobysnacks]

Jason-

Im plannig on carbing up on Thrusday and Friday next week for Mayhem. Im going to eat 900 grams on Thursday of a combination of sweet potatos, rice, rice cakes, and low fat cereal/pop tarts. Friday will be all sweet potatos and one large bowl of oatmeal in the morning. My question is How much water should I consume on these two days. I know it takes 3 grams of water to seat 1 gram of carbs but shouldn't i drink less than that to make sure I pull water from sub-c into the muscle?

My plan was to do 2 gallons of water from Sunday -Wednesday and then 3 liters on Thursday and 2 liters on Friday with water being shut off by 8 pm.

How does this sound? What adjustments would you make?

Thanks brotha!

I think you are about right on with that. I like to do things in grams with my water, just because I know 3600 grams is one gallon. And with a 900 gram carb load you will need 2700 grams water. So if you shoot just at that amount on Thurs or a bit under, then undershoot with your water amounts on Friday based on carb intake you should be able to shed water and pull the rest of the sub q in. On my biggest load day of 900 on Weds I normally do 1 gallon, then 1/2 and then 1/4 on Fri. I think you have the right idea.

And as you know none of this is an exact science I like your thinking though and at least its based on logic and you can adjust it quite easily for the BIG show...

Good luck man....shoot me a PM and let me know how you did and looked under this protocol.

Thanks

J

[dajossel]

After reading the dialogue between you and gymrat I am a bit concerned that my carbs will be too low for the carb up. Earlier you told me to go 3-4 x 70g of carbs on wed. If I went 210g of carbs that could pull 630g of water or 22.4 oz of water. on weds. you said 1.5 gallons of water so this would be around 5400g of water. Will all this water that is not pulled in by the carbs simply get flushed? I am a bit confused on how much water gets excreted as opposed to pulled into the muscle cell. I have read quite a lot of your posts about this and am still just a bit confused.

[dajossel]

Also just a quick little question (which i cant find using fitday or anything else) How many grams of carbs does 1oz of skinless sweet potato possess?

[Scoobysnacks]

Also just a quick little question (which i cant find using fitday or anything else) How many grams of carbs does 1oz of skinless sweet potato possess?

no clue I do things in grams....you should be able to find that somewhere.

[dajossel]

any thoughts on the first question?

[Scoobysnacks]

After reading the dialogue between you and gymrat I am a bit concerned that my carbs will be too low for the carb up. Earlier you told me to go 3-4 x 70g of carbs on wed. If I went 210g of carbs that could pull 630g of water or 22.4 oz of water. on weds. you said 1.5 gallons of water so this would be around 5400g of water. Will all this water that is not pulled in by the carbs simply get flushed? I am a bit confused on how much water gets excreted as opposed to pulled into the muscle cell. I have read quite a lot of your posts about this and am still just a bit confused.


You will flush it for the most part, Id keep it simple which is what I gave you.

Good Luck

Ss

[dajossel]

Thank you, ya when I saw his post i became concerned but I trust you, you come in pretty shredded man.

[dajossel]

Scooby the carb up starts tomorrow and i remember you telling me to add some extra fat to hold the carbs. I currently take in around 70g of fat per day (switched it all to raw almond butter), do you recommend I up this amount tomorrow?

[dajossel]

One other thing to the above since I am done with lifting and cardio do i need to manipulate my calories from the protein (make them a bit lower). I'm just concerned with taking in all the cals with no physical activity.

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby the carb up starts tomorrow and i remember you telling me to add some extra fat to hold the carbs. I currently take in around 70g of fat per day (switched it all to raw almond butter), do you recommend I up this amount tomorrow?

I was largely talking about on friday when the carbs go lower not on Weds. I set all that out for you I thought.

Protein can be a bit lower because carbs are protein sparing. You WONT get fat in one day....your body needs the rest and the food will speed up metabolism anyways....it'll be fine....

Ss

[dajossel]

When carbing up on the wed-fri do you look into the glycemic index of the carbs you take in?

[Scoobysnacks]

When carbing up on the wed-fri do you look into the glycemic index of the carbs you take in?

mixture of both, but I think you will do well to keep things simple and just carb up on the clean sources you dieted on.

Ss

[Shulk]

Scoobs, when prepping for a show (i.e. two weeks out or so) how many sets do you hit per bodypart with your rest-pause style? I ask because do you think that 3 rest-pause for hams and 3 rest pause for quads (12 sets total) is too much volume?

[Scoobysnacks]

Scoobs, when prepping for a show (i.e. two weeks out or so) how many sets do you hit per bodypart with your rest-pause style? I ask because do you think that 3 rest-pause for hams and 3 rest pause for quads (12 sets total) is too much volume?

It largely depends on diet and other factors regarding supplementation etc. And your ability to recover as well.

if low carb it may be a bit much to rest pause them all if on a moderate carb plan its probably fine. When I diet on a high to moderate carb I rest pause all my sets to be quite honest, to take them all to failure.

I think its fine.

Ss

[Shulk]

Im on a low carb diet this week. So you advise straight sets on a low carb regime?

[Scoobysnacks]

Im on a low carb diet this week. So you advise straight sets on a low carb regime?

No I usually advise HIT style training, intense, heavy and short....low volume. Still to failure but not as many sets and lower volume. The energy just isnt there to be doing tons of volume.

[BigBilly]

I want to drop water in 2weeks. what is the protocol for this?

[-BLP-]

bro im ripped like crazy to near death but men i fell like shit , i cant move beside gym, my brain is @#$%^&, i have pain coming from.... and i have this weird abstrsct adrenaline rush who made me cross this, but men i dont function well like cognitive state n neurotransmittor are seriosuly @#$%^&*(! how the hell i cant fell just a bit better mister?

[Scoobysnacks]

bro im ripped like crazy to near death but men i fell like shit , i cant move beside gym, my brain is @#$%^&, i have pain coming from.... and i have this weird abstrsct adrenaline rush who made me cross this, but men i dont function well like cognitive state n neurotransmittor are seriosuly @#$%^&*(! how the hell i cant fell just a bit better mister?

post some pics, you sound ready to rock....its crunch time we all feel like shit, lol.

[Scoobysnacks]

I want to drop water in 2weeks. what is the protocol for this?

The best thing you can do is ramp up your water intake higher than normal for a few days and then decrease it a bit for 8-12 hrs before you need to be dry. There is nothing really else to do. If you arent lean it wont make a bit of difference, and I have no clue why you trying to drop water etc. Adding some carbs in will help pull the sub q from under the skin too.

[debbiebramwell]

Hi there scooby doobysnacks! I wanted to wish you luck and an awesome show experience!:D

[Scoobysnacks]

Hi there scooby doobysnacks! I wanted to wish you luck and an awesome show experience!:D

Thanks Debbie, appreciate it. Im feeling it now, but in the final stretch. Not much left but to do it. 4 more training sessions and 8 more light intensity cardio sessions, then time to rest and put the finishing touches on it.

Ss

[-Z-]

SS, love the thread! One of the best on here.

[dajossel]

SS good luck for Jrs Nats. Ill most likely come and watch considering I live close.

[BigBilly]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBilly View Post
I want to drop water in 2weeks. what is the protocol for this?



The best thing you can do is ramp up your water intake higher than normal for a few days and then decrease it a bit for 8-12 hrs before you need to be dry. There is nothing really else to do. If you arent lean it wont make a bit of difference, and I have no clue why you trying to drop water etc. Adding some carbs in will help pull the sub q from under the skin too.

This lady is having a divorce party for one of her co-workers.. I would be a topless waiter at her party from 11p-2am.. I just wanted to be a tad leaner by the nite of the 26th(friday)

[Scoobysnacks]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBilly View Post
I want to drop water in 2weeks. what is the protocol for this?




This lady is having a divorce party for one of her co-workers.. I would be a topless waiter at her party from 11p-2am.. I just wanted to be a tad leaner by the nite of the 26th(friday)

Ha, you are kidding me right? Dude, unless you are shredded this will only make you look worse. If I had that gig Id probably actually load up on carbs and hit a workout prior at least go looking full, thats IFFF I had that gig, LMAO. Have fun though.

[YukonCrazy]

SS good luck for Jrs Nats. Ill most likely come and watch considering I live close.

Take some pics and vids of Scoobs! :)

I have never been to anything larger than a regional show. Jr. Nats must be awesome with the level of competition!

[-BLP-]

post some pics, you sound ready to rock....its crunch time we all feel like shit, lol.

that was the best shot , attitude , edgy, me , semi relax standing... love it ! thks !! it this coming saturday will do stage shot also

you compete soon also?

[Scoobysnacks]

that was the best shot , attitude , edgy, me , semi relax standing... love it ! thks !! it this coming saturday will do stage shot also

you compete soon also?

cool, cool, upper looks solid, did the glutes and lower back come in, thats what I was worried about for you?

I compete this weekend too.

Good Luck BLP let us know how you do.

[-BLP-]

yeah all there,,, deep tie in side hamstring like horse but i rarely sleep n have muscle spasm of weakness n weird side effect of low electrolytes n mineral balance, i cheat friday night on lasix n cut water i b fine , then no water fat load every 2 hours mac nut oil,,, almons ,avocados,, i carb complex yams b4 prejudge , n simple white rice for night show , wil do 3 lasix i like despite controversial comment for me he does good no cramp no problem even flush highblood pressure , it eat normal again that i struglle , the rebound is a rough killer this time i calm down

thk u

[Scoobysnacks]

yeah all there,,, deep tie in side hamstring like horse but i rarely sleep n have muscle spasm of weakness n weird side effect of low electrolytes n mineral balance, i cheat friday night on lasix n cut water i b fine , then no water fat load every 2 hours mac nut oil,,, almons ,avocados,, i carb complex yams b4 prejudge , n simple white rice for night show , wil do 3 lasix i like despite controversial comment for me he does good no cramp no problem even flush highblood pressure , it eat normal again that i struglle , the rebound is a rough killer this time i calm down

thk u

I think you were saying the rebound is a tough time for you. With all those diuretics you NEED to recognize it WILL be even worse and control your nutrition post contest.

But, first things first, kick ass this weekend, glad it all came together for you.

[BigBilly]

The best thing you can do is ramp up your water intake higher than normal for a few days and then decrease it a bit for 8-12 hrs before you need to be dry. There is nothing really else to do. If you arent lean it wont make a bit of difference, and I have no clue why you trying to drop water etc. Adding some carbs in will help pull the sub q from under the skin too.

am i lean enuff to use a product like, showtime, AQUALYZE

[MDur8]

Hey Scoob for your upcoming offseason are you going to be continuing a lowered carb/higher fat approach with refeeds on the weekends?

[Northman]

yeah all there,,, deep tie in side hamstring like horse but i rarely sleep n have muscle spasm of weakness n weird side effect of low electrolytes n mineral balance, i cheat friday night on lasix n cut water i b fine , then no water fat load every 2 hours mac nut oil,,, almons ,avocados,, i carb complex yams b4 prejudge , n simple white rice for night show , wil do 3 lasix i like despite controversial comment for me he does good no cramp no problem even flush highblood pressure , it eat normal again that i struglle , the rebound is a rough killer this time i calm down

thk u

I hear from a little moo moo that Lasix is horrible for men.

[Scoobysnacks]

am i lean enuff to use a product like, showtime, AQUALYZE

it might help a tad if you add some carbs while doing......but really if it were me for what you are doing, Im telling you Id just add a bit more carbs, hit the gym that day and the ladies will love you, lol.......

have fun, only young once I guess....:bowdown:

[Scoobysnacks]

Hey Scoob for your upcoming offseason are you going to be continuing a lowered carb/higher fat approach with refeeds on the weekends?

I have thought about it, that is so I can stay nasty lean all summer and still grow. I thought about getting calories up to a surplus but eating mainly fat protein meals. Broaden my fats, some heavy whipping cream in my shake which is highly anabolic saturated fats, cheese for my eggs, etc.

Then start a refeed Friday night all the way to Saturday night on whatever the hell I want, lol.

But, to be honest I really dont get fat on high carb either and its kind of easier so.....we'll see how things shake out....my aim is always to improve and grow so whatever my body is responding to, thats what Ill do, or the flip of that if Im not growing Ill abandon a plan and try the other, etc.

[hilly]

scooby what would you class as a low amount of carbs in the off season when trying to stay lean as outlined above?

[MDur8]

I have thought about it, that is so I can stay nasty lean all summer and still grow. I thought about getting calories up to a surplus but eating mainly fat protein meals. Broaden my fats, some heavy whipping cream in my shake which is highly anabolic saturated fats, cheese for my eggs, etc.




This is what Im doing so far for my offseason right now and I feel awesome! Usually when im above maintenance calories im walking around bloated from all the oatmeal and ezekial bread ive been eating lol, but since i increased my fats and lowered my carbs my waist has dropped and ive been consistenly gaining .5 lb a week. All day refeeds on Sundays arent bad either :D

[Scoobysnacks]

scooby what would you class as a low amount of carbs in the off season when trying to stay lean as outlined above?

gonna differ for everyone, based on age, bodytype, activity and all over carb sensitivities, what may be "lower" for me may be high for you. I suspect Ill go with 1 gram per lb of LBM at meal 1, pwo and ppwo. Then use refeeds on the weekends to get in all the carbs I would have eaten.

In this manor Ill still deplete and then be a state for supercompensation of glycogen, but should be able to grow on 145 carbs with high fats and adequate protein.

You will have to find your own way.

[Scoobysnacks]

This is what Im doing so far for my offseason right now and I feel awesome! Usually when im above maintenance calories im walking around bloated from all the oatmeal and ezekial bread ive been eating lol, but since i increased my fats and lowered my carbs my waist has dropped and ive been consistenly gaining .5 lb a week. All day refeeds on Sundays arent bad either :D

Ill probably do something like this for summer...Id like to be able to take my shirt off this year and not have people think man just two weeks ago dude was ripped now smooth, lol...I really dont mind the smooth look, but I spent last summer carbed up so I might spend this summer lean then hit it hard come September, by then body will be ready for a shock.

Its really easy to say all this now though when Im lean and used to being low calorie any bit of more food sounds good and easy, but Ill be honest in offseason Im known to get all my meals in, hit my protein on a daily basis, but add whatever junk i want....so Ill try to fight it......we'll just have to see.

[BigBilly]

it might help a tad if you add some carbs while doing......but really if it were me for what you are doing, Im telling you Id just add a bit more carbs, hit the gym that day and the ladies will love you, lol.......

have fun, only young once I guess....:bowdown:
thank you... hoping to make 100bucks

[Northman]

Ill probably do something like this for summer...Id like to be able to take my shirt off this year and not have people think man just two weeks ago dude was ripped now smooth, lol...I really dont mind the smooth look, but I spent last summer carbed up so I might spend this summer lean then hit it hard come September, by then body will be ready for a shock.

Its really easy to say all this now though when Im lean and used to being low calorie any bit of more food sounds good and easy, but Ill be honest in offseason Im known to get all my meals in, hit my protein on a daily basis, but add whatever junk i want....so Ill try to fight it......we'll just have to see.


I hear from a notable guru that pop-tarts make excellent post workout food.

[Scoobysnacks]

I hear from a notable guru that pop-tarts make excellent post workout food.

Duly Noted, lol.

[TigerUpperCut]

i workout at 9pm and i come home after my workout around 10:30pm, is carbs necessary or should i just eat protein?

[kell]

what does the last week looks like when on a keto diet about carb loading, fat loading etc. plz need some ideas, just a week out.thnks.

[Scoobysnacks]

i workout at 9pm and i come home after my workout around 10:30pm, is carbs necessary or should i just eat protein?

This will depend on a lot of factors, goals being one, metabolism two, etc. Some people dont do carbs pwo opting for protein, fats and veggies, so no starches. When gaining I need the carbs, Im more ectomorph.

But, to answer you in general terms, dont let the time dictate your intake it doesnt really matter, let your plan, goals and your own body intracies dictate your intake. Does that make sense?

Ss

[Scoobysnacks]

what does the last week looks like when on a keto diet about carb loading, fat loading etc. plz need some ideas, just a week out.thnks.

I generally opt for some sort of carb intake the final week with people on keto, but I had one gal who was a bit older and just held water like crazy, her weight was always all over the place with tiniest bit of carb intake, so we fat loaded her. I would add an extra 1/2 your fat intake, so you if you are doing 60 grams add 30 extra grams of fat each day for a total of 90 grams, something along those lines. You may need even more than that.

if you are a figure gal and want to go the carb route, the safest bet and easiest for me to impart to you would be 1.5 cups white rice spread over thursday and around 1-1.25 cups of white rice on Friday, stop water intake around 8-9 on friday and sip thereafter. In the morning based on look you can either add carbs or you can just do your keto meals every 2 hrs so you arent hungry all day.

I hope thats some food for thought....

[TigerUpperCut]

This will depend on a lot of factors, goals being one, metabolism two, etc. Some people dont do carbs pwo opting for protein, fats and veggies, so no starches. When gaining I need the carbs, Im more ectomorph.

But, to answer you in general terms, dont let the time dictate your intake it doesnt really matter, let your plan, goals and your own body intracies dictate your intake. Does that make sense?

Ss


ok i hear ya, i weigh 165lb how many grams of carbs should i try to get in?

[Scoobysnacks]

ok i hear ya, i weigh 165lb how many grams of carbs should i try to get in?

That could be anywhere from 25 to 75 with that weight, depending on how depleted etc and again goals.

[TigerUpperCut]

That could be anywhere from 25 to 75 with that weight, depending on how depleted etc and again goals.

well my post-workout meal is also my last meal of the day, should i get some fat in there too?

[kell]

first of all i'm a dude and kell is just a screen name. now i'v been fat depleting for 2 and a half week and i'm a week out of the show. thing is i dont know much abt carb loading, and fat loading before the show? also dont know when to cut the water and deplete sodium and i'm gnna use a natural diuretic? if u plz clear things up for me tht would be awsome, fat works great for me i usually stay full and with carbs my body just sucks it in? i've been doing fish and egg whites for my meals and today thursday and i'm just 9 days out. thanks.

[raging pitbull]

its now a week after my show and i binged the entire week. i said that it will only be a week, i also see a major diffrence in my body. i went from shredded on sun to being fat 2day. can i fix the damage done to my body? how long will it take to fix the damage? did i undo everthing? its kinda scary.

[Scoobysnacks]

its now a week after my show and i binged the entire week. i said that it will only be a week, i also see a major diffrence in my body. i went from shredded on sun to being fat 2day. can i fix the damage done to my body? how long will it take to fix the damage? did i undo everthing? its kinda scary.

Only you know the answer to that, but normally a week of eating off diet doesnt have me looking anything like a do-ball. Simply get back to a smart plan if you dont like the look and most of that which is water will dissipate. But, dont plan to stay as lean as you were with a show prep.

Ss

[Scoobysnacks]

first of all i'm a dude and kell is just a screen name. now i'v been fat depleting for 2 and a half week and i'm a week out of the show. thing is i dont know much abt carb loading, and fat loading before the show? also dont know when to cut the water and deplete sodium and i'm gnna use a natural diuretic? if u plz clear things up for me tht would be awsome, fat works great for me i usually stay full and with carbs my body just sucks it in? i've been doing fish and egg whites for my meals and today thursday and i'm just 9 days out. thanks.


This is getting into specifics of things and Im not gonna lay something out, moreso, I really couldnt give you a plan, I know nothing about you.

Keep water about the same, sodium maybe a sligt deficit, cut water off around 9pm friday to sips and decide if you are carb loading or fat loading.

Good Luck

[Sunshine]

Hi Jason,
I am curious on your opinion of the post show "anabolic window" where some say it is possible to add a good bit of muscle. If you think this is the case, what would you suggest for a female figure competitor who would like to stay fairly lean?
Thanks!

[Scoobysnacks]

Hi Jason,
I am curious on your opinion of the post show "anabolic window" where some say it is possible to add a good bit of muscle. If you think this is the case, what would you suggest for a female figure competitor who would like to stay fairly lean?
Thanks!

Honestly I think some people use it as a reason to stuff themselves and get fat. They are adding muscle, lol. That said, I do believe the body is more receptive to nutrients, ie more insulin sensitive. And if you do it right you are more likely to acquire new muscle. This has just been my experience and my experience working with others. Dont use it as a reason to eat everything under the sun.

My advice is set up a diet that is a template, dont be afraid to stray from it here and there, so you dont feel like you are being deprived, if you hit it 90% of the time and are in a caloric surplus you should grow quite well, and stay lean. Use the same foods you used to diet just much more and probably a bit more fats from EFAs that you may have had.

Hope that helps some.

Ss

[Sunshine]

Honestly I think some people use it as a reason to stuff themselves and get fat. They are adding muscle, lol. That said, I do believe the body is more receptive to nutrients, ie more insulin sensitive. And if you do it right you are more likely to acquire new muscle. This has just been my experience and my experience working with others. Dont use it as a reason to eat everything under the sun.

My advice is set up a diet that is a template, dont be afraid to stray from it here and there, so you dont feel like you are being deprived, if you hit it 90% of the time and are in a caloric surplus you should grow quite well, and stay lean. Use the same foods you used to diet just much more and probably a bit more fats from EFAs that you may have had.

Hope that helps some.

Ss

Yes, thanks. I realize it's individual, but what would be a ballpark surplus for same scenario? I'm guessing my maintenance would be about 1900 adjusted for a little metabolic slowdown from dieting.
Thanks again!

[Scoobysnacks]

Yes, thanks. I realize it's individual, but what would be a ballpark surplus for same scenario? I'm guessing my maintenance would be about 1900 adjusted for a little metabolic slowdown from dieting.
Thanks again!

If ecto add 500 to your maintenance.
if endo or meso Id do 250 and see how you progress.

Base it on strength gains and weekly weigh ins. If not adding pounds in the gym or on the scale over time, add more cals.

You dont want to go real crazy after the show, usually you are decreasing cardio, maybe even resting and if you pour tons of cals in you are asking to get fat.

But, as you said its an individual thing.

Im a bit more aggressive with myself. I added in around 500 cals immediately and now 2 weeks later Im probably back up around 1000 cals surplus. But, Ive done this many times (ie dieted for a show) and I know what my body can handle and not get insanely fat.

Good Luck

[Sunshine]

If ecto add 500 to your maintenance.
if endo or meso Id do 250 and see how you progress.

Base it on strength gains and weekly weigh ins. If not adding pounds in the gym or on the scale over time, add more cals.

You dont want to go real crazy after the show, usually you are decreasing cardio, maybe even resting and if you pour tons of cals in you are asking to get fat.

But, as you said its an individual thing.

Im a bit more aggressive with myself. I added in around 500 cals immediately and now 2 weeks later Im probably back up around 1000 cals surplus. But, Ive done this many times (ie dieted for a show) and I know what my body can handle and not get insanely fat.

Good Luck

Yes, definitely don't want to get insanely fat!!!:eek:
I'm planning on doing the dieting backward thing, keeping in some light cardio but taking a few days off from lifting, although I'm sure a few treats will be had. I go on a beach vacation at the beginning of August and would like to look good in a bikini (yes, I admit it, I'm vain :o-which actually goes a long way toward not eating myself into a coma) and then will get into more of a surplus, especially if the "magic anabolic post show window" isn't as much of a concern. Thanks again!!

[mattyb]

Whats up Scooby. I know you mentioned using the keto diet with a whole day for refeeding during your prep. I did the same thing and I was wondering how you added the carbs back in to your diet. I added in about 100g(But lowered fat by 30g to make up for some of the calories) but was starving the whole time. So I bumped to 150g and I am trying to keep it their for now. I know my abs seem more blurry(Could be from the food over the weekend and monday). I didnt know if you experienced the same thing??

[Scoobysnacks]

Whats up Scooby. I know you mentioned using the keto diet with a whole day for refeeding during your prep. I did the same thing and I was wondering how you added the carbs back in to your diet. I added in about 100g(But lowered fat by 30g to make up for some of the calories) but was starving the whole time. So I bumped to 150g and I am trying to keep it their for now. I know my abs seem more blurry(Could be from the food over the weekend and monday). I didnt know if you experienced the same thing??

Matt my body likes carbs. I just added them back with no real systemicatic plan. Right now Im not tracking anything. Im eating by feel and what my body wants. Sometimes its a protein fat meal and sometimes its a protein carb meal, and sometimes its a bowl of ice cream. Here is the thing with me though, I can eat really clean, but once I get to a 500 surplus in calories Im gonna add some fat and usually end up around 10% just takes a little longer, but i end up there. If I just get to it, I get fatter quicker after my show, but still really dont get above the 10% range as long as Im training and doing a bit of cardio. Because I only have 8 mos tops to make improvements I wasted no time with getting the carbs in and high. Sure my abs are blurry but I still have a six pack.

You can add them back systematically, buf if still hungry you can add more in assuming your body likes carbs. If it doesnt, there is nothing that says you have to go above 100 or 150 etc. Find the right fit for you. You could always increase calories by taking in more protein or fats or both.

But surely after being keto and adding carbs, plus probably decreasing cardio etc, you are gonna get blurry, I wouldnt sweat it.

[mattyb]

Matt my body likes carbs. I just added them back with no real systemicatic plan. Right now Im not tracking anything. Im eating by feel and what my body wants. Sometimes its a protein fat meal and sometimes its a protein carb meal, and sometimes its a bowl of ice cream. Here is the thing with me though, I can eat really clean, but once I get to a 500 surplus in calories Im gonna add some fat and usually end up around 10% just takes a little longer, but i end up there. If I just get to it, I get fatter quicker after my show, but still really dont get above the 10% range as long as Im training and doing a bit of cardio. Because I only have 8 mos tops to make improvements I wasted no time with getting the carbs in and high. Sure my abs are blurry but I still have a six pack.

You can add them back systematically, buf if still hungry you can add more in assuming your body likes carbs. If it doesnt, there is nothing that says you have to go above 100 or 150 etc. Find the right fit for you. You could always increase calories by taking in more protein or fats or both.

But surely after being keto and adding carbs, plus probably decreasing cardio etc, you are gonna get blurry, I wouldnt sweat it.

Great, thanks scooby!! I just freaked out because coming off my first show my abs were looking great, then all of the sudden the were blurry. I really didnt pig out after my show to bad either. But I only did the keto for the last 5-6 weeks of my prep so maybe its just water weight and will subside in the next couple days. My body handles carbs well also. For my last bulk I was eating mickey d's or pizza 4-5 times a week and the highest my bf got to was 12-13%(I know high, but not too bad consider my very poor diet). I appreciate the help!!

[TooPowerful4u]

Question....

I realize you state in the final days you want to have just a little less water than the carbs require to pull sub-q water.

You also stated you like to carb hard on wednesday, then clean it up.

1. How can you clean it up and keep sodium moving when you are cutting back on water. High water intake is what is going to get the sodium moving out of your body. Skip and Layne both advise running water high until late on Friday to insure hydration.

2. I usually have a hard time HOLDING a load (i peak but lose it before i hit the stage at some point). Do you believe tapering your water actually causes a water craving environment within the muscles and will cause the muscles to hold the load better? I know when i rebound (after losing too much water) my muscles held on to that water for dear life no matter what i did and i was full as fuck.

[Muscle185]

What is your AM and PM cardio protocall for your endo clients that tend to hold most of their fat in their lower body?

[Scoobysnacks]

Question....

I realize you state in the final days you want to have just a little less water than the carbs require to pull sub-q water.

You also stated you like to carb hard on wednesday, then clean it up.

1. How can you clean it up and keep sodium moving when you are cutting back on water. High water intake is what is going to get the sodium moving out of your body. Skip and Layne both advise running water high until late on Friday to insure hydration.

2. I usually have a hard time HOLDING a load (i peak but lose it before i hit the stage at some point). Do you believe tapering your water actually causes a water craving environment within the muscles and will cause the muscles to hold the load better? I know when i rebound (after losing too much water) my muscles held on to that water for dear life no matter what i did and i was full as fuck.

Hey TP4u Ill try to explain how I do things and see if that brief explanation clears anythign up.

On Monday of peak week when I start to deplete I drop any outside sodium added to the diet. That would mean condiments, sodas, and the sea salt or table salt the athlete is using. During this time water is high and I decrease carbs Mon & tues to deplete. By Weds morning the sodium will be much lower from the flush. Thats the day I carb up very high and use about 1 gallon of water. The water is usually still a bit more than is needed for those carbs so I spill a tiny bit.

Then Thurs and Fri the water is less than needed using the 3:1 ratio so any spillage is cleaned up by the carb load pulling the sub q under.

So the way I do it sodium is flushed first before the load so less water could be pushed to sub q, use carbs high in potassium to shuttle the water where we want it. and any water that does spill is sopped up by the next two days carbs pulling from sub q. There is still enough sodium in the gut on Weds to load and the foods will have some too but its so much lower than during the diet time.

Problem holding the load? Are you using a fat load oN Friday? I am, I use almost a whole jar or ANPB salt free or AB salt free. This helps my people keep the load and also keeps the insulin spike down on the carbs that day since you are no longer as insulin sensitive.

Once dried out fully on Friday evening we reintroduce sodium. Same with Sat morning, then before hitting the stage aboue 40 mins out reintroduce water. Saturday morning you will be fully loaded, sodium back in, so if even remotely flat you just add water until the pump is amazing.

Hope this helps bro.

Ss

[Scoobysnacks]

What is your AM and PM cardio protocall for your endo clients that tend to hold most of their fat in their lower body?

You may need more HIIT cardio. But, to be honest it will ALL start with diet. If endo your carb intake will be lower from the get go and we would probably use refeeds. If you are really out of shape then probably only one refeed if around 10% then more than likely two.

Id probably take bodyweight and half to arrive at starchy carb intake. 1.75 x bodyweight for protein, and .25 your bodyweight for fats. Somewhere around there. Then 2 x bw for your refeed day.

Then adjust as needed. Once that is taken care of, there is some science to indicate oxidation of fat can actually be increased in the legs by doing HIIT cardio. I woldnt advise this on leg day or doing this in the morning. Usually put it in the evening on off days. So maybe 2-3 sessions per week.

Am cardio there may be some LISS type work, heart rate below 130 bpm, I like 100 to 110. But, thats me.

So to recap:

1) get your diet in order; and
2) HIIT is probably going to help, but use it sparingly and not in the AM on empty stomach, and two
3) some type of morning fasted LISS.

The amount of time and frequency will be determined on how much of a deficit you need to create per week above and beyond your diet and your training.

Good Luck

Ss

[mattyb]

Hey TP4u Ill try to explain how I do things and see if that brief explanation clears anythign up.

On Monday of peak week when I start to deplete I drop any outside sodium added to the diet. That would mean condiments, sodas, and the sea salt or table salt the athlete is using. During this time water is high and I decrease carbs Mon & tues to deplete. By Weds morning the sodium will be much lower from the flush. Thats the day I carb up very high and use about 1 gallon of water. The water is usually still a bit more than is needed for those carbs so I spill a tiny bit.

Then Thurs and Fri the water is less than needed using the 3:1 ratio so any spillage is cleaned up by the carb load pulling the sub q under.

So the way I do it sodium is flushed first before the load so less water could be pushed to sub q, use carbs high in potassium to shuttle the water where we want it. and any water that does spill is sopped up by the next two days carbs pulling from sub q. There is still enough sodium in the gut on Weds to load and the foods will have some too but its so much lower than during the diet time.

Problem holding the load? Are you using a fat load oN Friday? I am, I use almost a whole jar or ANPB salt free or AB salt free. This helps my people keep the load and also keeps the insulin spike down on the carbs that day since you are no longer as insulin sensitive.

Once dried out fully on Friday evening we reintroduce sodium. Same with Sat morning, then before hitting the stage aboue 40 mins out reintroduce water. Saturday morning you will be fully loaded, sodium back in, so if even remotely flat you just add water until the pump is amazing.

Hope this helps bro.

Ss

Thanks for that post scooby, very helpful for me!! How do you reintroduce the sodium?

[Scoobysnacks]

Thanks for that post scooby, very helpful for me!! How do you reintroduce the sodium?

Usually a steak form Outback and some cheesecake Friday night along with a sweet potato. The steak will have salt form seasoning so will the cheesecake.

Sat morning Ill have about 4 pancakes which are fairly high in sodium...

[mattyb]

Usually a steak form Outback and some cheesecake Friday night along with a sweet potato. The steak will have salt form seasoning so will the cheesecake.

Sat morning Ill have about 4 pancakes which are fairly high in sodium...

Thanks scooby! After the pancakes do you recommend just snacking on something like rice cakes and pb?

[cft05]

hello my name is Ryan and i'm gonna be competing at the Excaliber in Culver City, CA on December 5th so i'm roughly 7 weeks out. I'm gonna start Keto at the end of this week, I'm pretty lean right now my friend (competitor) says i'm ahead of schedule but I don't want to leave anything to chance. I would like to be a little harder through the legs at this juncture I have started incorporating 15 min of inervals on recumbent but don't think it's a good idea once i start keto. I have also been doin 45 min liss cardio keepin heart rate 120-130 bpm at least 5 days per week. i'll hopefully post some pics up within the next week but here is my current diet:

meal 1: 6 egg whites, 3 whole omega-3 eggs, 2 slices extra lean turkey bacon/1/2 cup oatmeal

meal 2: 40 grams isopure/5gram inulin fiber/1.5 tbsp all natural peanut butter

meal 3: 8oz chicken, turkey, or fish (tilapia)/cup green beans, 1tbsp mac nut oil

*preworkout 15gram isopure
*postworkout 40gram isopure

meal 4: 8oz chicken, turkey, or fish (tilapia)/125gram baked yam/ cup green beans, 1 tbsp mac nut oil

meal 5: 8oz chicken, turkey, or fish (tilapia), cup green beans, tbsp cold pressed olive oil

meal 6: 6 egg whites, 3 whole omega-3 eggs, 5g inulin fiber OR 40 grams isopure/1tbsp mac nut oil

...any comments would be greatly appreciated. i'm 5'6" and about 165 lbs at the moment. (i know it's kinda hard to give advice without pics but i should have some this week)

[UnfinishedBusiness]

Hey TP4u Ill try to explain how I do things and see if that brief explanation clears anythign up.

On Monday of peak week when I start to deplete I drop any outside sodium added to the diet. That would mean condiments, sodas, and the sea salt or table salt the athlete is using. During this time water is high and I decrease carbs Mon & tues to deplete. By Weds morning the sodium will be much lower from the flush. Thats the day I carb up very high and use about 1 gallon of water. The water is usually still a bit more than is needed for those carbs so I spill a tiny bit.

Then Thurs and Fri the water is less than needed using the 3:1 ratio so any spillage is cleaned up by the carb load pulling the sub q under.

So the way I do it sodium is flushed first before the load so less water could be pushed to sub q, use carbs high in potassium to shuttle the water where we want it. and any water that does spill is sopped up by the next two days carbs pulling from sub q. There is still enough sodium in the gut on Weds to load and the foods will have some too but its so much lower than during the diet time.

Problem holding the load? Are you using a fat load oN Friday? I am, I use almost a whole jar or ANPB salt free or AB salt free. This helps my people keep the load and also keeps the insulin spike down on the carbs that day since you are no longer as insulin sensitive.

Once dried out fully on Friday evening we reintroduce sodium. Same with Sat morning, then before hitting the stage aboue 40 mins out reintroduce water. Saturday morning you will be fully loaded, sodium back in, so if even remotely flat you just add water until the pump is amazing.

Hope this helps bro.

Ss

Scoob, very informative! Do you use this same method for keto dieters as well, or is this only for those who have dieted with carbs?

[Scoobysnacks]

Scoob, very informative! Do you use this same method for keto dieters as well, or is this only for those who have dieted with carbs?

It depends on the person, if I spot them as being carb sensitive to begin with I usually cut the load in half if they were on a keto. It seems they are very receptive and half the load will work just fine.

Ss

[UnfinishedBusiness]

It depends on the person, if I spot them as being carb sensitive to begin with I usually cut the load in half if they were on a keto. It seems they are very receptive and half the load will work just fine.

Ss

So is this something you would try out/monitor with the weekly re-feeds during the prep with a client?

[Scoobysnacks]

So is this something you would try out/monitor with the weekly re-feeds during the prep with a client?

Thats not really how its done, its more based on LBM, my assessment of how they do on carbs, and the fact I ensure they are depleted before we load.

Refeeds during the diet will give me a good idea if they are a candidate though.

[cft05]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/cft05/utf-8BSU1HMDA3NTEuanBn.jpg

ok so here's a back picture it's kinda poor quality cuz from phone but kinda get the idea. I wanted to get at least one up for now to start getting feedback whether or not i'm on track. Once again i'm about 7 weeks out, morning weight 165 and i'm 5'6"...more photos to come

[Scoobysnacks]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/cft05/utf-8BSU1HMDA3NTEuanBn.jpg

ok so here's a back picture it's kinda poor quality cuz from phone but kinda get the idea. I wanted to get at least one up for now to start getting feedback whether or not i'm on track. Once again i'm about 7 weeks out, morning weight 165 and i'm 5'6"...more photos to come

From that pic alone it would be hard to say, I need to see legs, hams, glutes, etc. You could have a belly and just lose fat easily in your back, though not likely.

It appears though from that photo alone based on your lower back Id say yes you are on track for 7 weeks out.

[cft05]

ya i know i will get some more pics up soon; i'm gonna have a friend take some with digital camera so i can actually run through some poses. My abs are in have quite a bit of veins running up them so i'm happy about that some veins comin out in quads too. Hams a little soft for my liking at this point I figure that'll be the last thing to come in.

[cft05]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/cft05/utf-8BSU1HMDA4MDcuanBn.jpg

quad shot

[cft05]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/cft05/utf-8BSU1HMDA4MjQuanBn.jpg

...once again i apologize for the quality

[cft05]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/cft05/utf-8BSU1HMDA4MzcuanBn.jpg

lat spread, i can tell i'm real thin through the trap region especially on this pose :(

[Scoobysnacks]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e200/cft05/utf-8BSU1HMDA4MzcuanBn.jpg

lat spread, i can tell i'm real thin through the trap region especially on this pose :(

perhaps but your lat insertions are great and allow a very wide back to waist ratio.

You are fine for 7 weeks, right on track, your abs dont look deeply cut though, it might help to start hitting them with weight, not sure what you are doing for them.

I prepped Maryland Muscle, his thread is below. He just received the most conditioned athlete at the 2009 KY Bluegrass show, which had some national level athletes competing, you can search his thread and find where he was 7 weeks out from yesterday. Everyone moves at different rates, but it might give you something to compare too.

[cft05]

dude thanks for your response. I wanted to have you do my prep but couldn't fit it into my budget for this show (i messaged you awhile back) so means a lot that you took the time to comment on pics. I will definitely check out maryland muscle's thread. What would you recommend for weighted ab exercise?

[Scoobysnacks]

dude thanks for your response. I wanted to have you do my prep but couldn't fit it into my budget for this show (i messaged you awhile back) so means a lot that you took the time to comment on pics. I will definitely check out maryland muscle's thread. What would you recommend for weighted ab exercise?

I like rope crunches cause you can use the stack and decline crunches with a dumbell in my arms or a plate in my hands rested only slightly on my forehead. Then finish up with some upright bench crunches with dumbell in between your feet pulling knees up to chest.

[luke_b21]

SS,

If making weight is an issue, what kind of changes (if any) do you make to your general final week protocol (carb-up, water, etc.) you've outlined earlier in this thread? (Assuming weigh-ins are friday night OR saturday morning.)

[Scoobysnacks]

SS,

If making weight is an issue, what kind of changes (if any) do you make to your general final week protocol (carb-up, water, etc.) you've outlined earlier in this thread? (Assuming weigh-ins are friday night OR saturday morning.)

Its really hard to say. If I know someone doesnt hold water and they are 2lbs under I will do what I always do. Only if someone is over the weight will I usually diet them in to the weigh in, perhaps hold back on some carbs a bit, hit weight then use the 3:1 water to carbs ratio to carb them up till stage time without spilling.

It just really depends on the person, but thats a general way to do it.

[MDur8]

Hey scoobs, any updates on your training?

[cft05]

*note...those upright bench crunches with the db ripped my abs apart lol I don't know why I ever stopped doing them! Thanks Scooby!

[cft05]

hey scooby i forgot to ask, what color and fabric are the trunks you wore at junior nationals? You got them from cherrybombs.net ya?

[beggs_05]

What types of carb sources do you typically use or recommend for a carb up day? And how do you feel about green and red peppers and mushrooms (in moderation obviously) while on a pre contest diet?

[Scoobysnacks]

*note...those upright bench crunches with the db ripped my abs apart lol I don't know why I ever stopped doing them! Thanks Scooby!

yes they do, done right I can feel them in my lower abs to which for me is usually hard to target.


hey scooby i forgot to ask, what color and fabric are the trunks you wore at junior nationals? You got them from cherrybombs.net ya?

The were brazilian cut to show the glutes:-) and navy blue was the color and I got her regular fabric forget what its called, they werent velvet though which she special makes as the orders come in. Yes at cherrybombs.

[Scoobysnacks]

What types of carb sources do you typically use or recommend for a carb up day? And how do you feel about green and red peppers and mushrooms (in moderation obviously) while on a pre contest diet?

Depends on the protocol. For instance with Jamin at the KY Muscle it was a fill and spill early on, he loaded Weds. then went back to regular diet, regular water and sodium intake, so as not to jeopardize his Monster Mash conditioning. He had everything from french toast with real mapley and frosted flakes to white spaghetti that Weds.

This time for the Mash we are peaking for that show, and he is loading Weds, Thurs and Friday pretty hard while using the 3:1 water to carbs ratio. Carbs will be white potato, sweet potato, rice cakes, pancakes (saturday morning) and cheesecake (friday night). Along with some wine. Method to my madness. I think you are doing the mash???? you will be able to compare how nasty full and dry he will be at the mash under this loading protocol. If not he'll use this same one for the peaking at the Ky Muscle two weeks later.

The peppers and mushroom thing, its fine, usually I dont restrict veggies, they are free. There are times Ill track them like on a strict keto diet so as not to push the person out of keto and have them feel like shit. otherwise, eat up as much as you want.

Good Luck

Ss

[cft05]

hey scooby, what training protocol did you use during precomp for jr nationals? I know you have been doing DC offseason, and what do you think has contributed to your delt development?

[Scoobysnacks]

hey scooby, what training protocol did you use during precomp for jr nationals? I know you have been doing DC offseason, and what do you think has contributed to your delt development?

While dieting I matched my training style to my nutrition style. When i had more carbs I trained with more volume. When I went keto I trained more like DC, one all out set, but I did more exercises than a DC'er would do, if you know anything about the program. On keto my training was no longer than 35 mins for any bodypart.

Delts, Ill tell you what I do. Heavy hang cleans and presses have always been in my arsenal along with heavy upright rows. That said, I think some of it is genetic, they respond to almost anything tbh. Even when I work back I feel delts getting engorged, when I work chest they especially take over which has set my chest development back. If you look at a lot of genetic average bb'ers they usually either have exceptional delt and arms and weak chests or badass chests and small delts. One or the other is overcompensating when they train those areas. Its up the bb'er to figure out how to take whichever out of the equation and get the proper stimulii where its needed.

Good Luck

Ss

[cft05]

ya i know the DC style well; i'm doing max OT style training since my carbs are low so i'm out of the gym no longer than 45 min and my strength has been going up each week even with the dieting. Funny you mention hang cleans because I have been doing them as my first exercise the last 2 weeks, I feel those quite a bit. My problem is that I need more cap to my delts so they pop a little more. I had been doin wide grip upright rows but the movement feels unnatural to me :/ My chest is quite overdeveloped for my shoulders lol my friends call me tits mcgee haha. Well thanks again for the advice and I ordered my flex cut trunks from cherrybombs today in the navy blue so im stoked about that cuz glutes are comin in more and hammys are droppin so I'll feel better about posing in front of my friend/pseudo coach lol. Thanks for your help!

[Scoobysnacks]

ya i know the DC style well; i'm doing max OT style training since my carbs are low so i'm out of the gym no longer than 45 min and my strength has been going up each week even with the dieting. Funny you mention hang cleans because I have been doing them as my first exercise the last 2 weeks, I feel those quite a bit. My problem is that I need more cap to my delts so they pop a little more. I had been doin wide grip upright rows but the movement feels unnatural to me :/ My chest is quite overdeveloped for my shoulders lol my friends call me tits mcgee haha. Well thanks again for the advice and I ordered my flex cut trunks from cherrybombs today in the navy blue so im stoked about that cuz glutes are comin in more and hammys are droppin so I'll feel better about posing in front of my friend/pseudo coach lol. Thanks for your help!

Tits mcgee it is, but yea, like I said usually its one or the other. So you need to figure out a way to not stimulate your chest while doing shoulders, do things that take it out of the equation altogether.

I talked to a really good bodybuilder recently has won a few overalls and placed decently at nationals and he has your issue. He said even on front or rear shoulder presses he feels a lot of it in his chest, I feel nothing when I do that, he said his chest will be super engorged from that exercise alone.

[Marauder63]

I have a few questions that may be a bit different.

I have a show I want to and will enter on march 27th, so just under 5 months. I am planning on bulking for a while, seeing how I am coming along a few days before 16 weeks out and so on.

My Questions are as follows..

1)for a young competitor (19 right now) but Ill barely be 20 by the competition, What are a few tips outside of the usual that you would give, and things I should not focus on/worry about to much.


2) For someone (such as myself) who has lost a lot of weight and has loose skin (mainly around the core area) would you say to stick with whatever I am planning for contest prep? I just do not want to have glaring loose skin while I am on stage.

These pics are not the greatest for showing loose skin but it may give you an idea of where I am coming from with this.

RX Muscle Forums


thanks for reading this and for any advice you give.

[Scoobysnacks]

I have a few questions that may be a bit different.

I have a show I want to and will enter on march 27th, so just under 5 months. I am planning on bulking for a while, seeing how I am coming along a few days before 16 weeks out and so on.

My Questions are as follows..

1)for a young competitor (19 right now) but Ill barely be 20 by the competition, What are a few tips outside of the usual that you would give, and things I should not focus on/worry about to much.


2) For someone (such as myself) who has lost a lot of weight and has loose skin (mainly around the core area) would you say to stick with whatever I am planning for contest prep? I just do not want to have glaring loose skin while I am on stage.

These pics are not the greatest for showing loose skin but it may give you an idea of where I am coming from with this.

RX Muscle Forums (http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?t=22628)


thanks for reading this and for any advice you give.

First, congrats on your transformation its truly remarkable.

The tip Ill give you is this. If you are 20 weeks out now, DO NOT BULK, for 4 weeks prior to starting, you will not gain anything out of it, but maybe some fat. Any "muscle" you do gain will simply be extra glycogen and water, you wont have time to solidify it and it will shed the first week dieting. Your best bet would be to create a clean diet NOW, one that is higher in cals than your maintenance, but clean. This will prime your metabolism for the calorie deficit, and you shouldnt gain any fat during this time.

I think this is the best you can do with those four weeks.

Otherwise, start high and finish low, track your morning weights and take a snap shot every 7 days if not trending downward then make adjustments, if your goal is 1 lbs lost per week and you are hitting it, change nothing, if you need 2 lbs and only are getting 1 lb then either drop carbs or up cardio, but usually I dont do both, one or the other.

Good Luck

Ss

[Marauder63]

First, congrats on your transformation its truly remarkable.

The tip Ill give you is this. If you are 20 weeks out now, DO NOT BULK, for 4 weeks prior to starting, you will not gain anything out of it, but maybe some fat. Any "muscle" you do gain will simply be extra glycogen and water, you wont have time to solidify it and it will shed the first week dieting. Your best bet would be to create a clean diet NOW, one that is higher in cals than your maintenance, but clean. This will prime your metabolism for the calorie deficit, and you shouldnt gain any fat during this time.

I think this is the best you can do with those four weeks.

Otherwise, start high and finish low, track your morning weights and take a snap shot every 7 days if not trending downward then make adjustments, if your goal is 1 lbs lost per week and you are hitting it, change nothing, if you need 2 lbs and only are getting 1 lb then either drop carbs or up cardio, but usually I dont do both, one or the other.

Good Luck

Ss

I never thought about it that way. I suppose I could have used my time more wisely.

I actually have a diet lined up I can use when I was working with some locals so I dug it up. It got me from 203.5-181.6 in 12 weeks

Thank you for the advice, as for my transformation I feel it will be complete once I step on stage. I thought of keeping a journal on here for my contest prep, 16 weeks out would be the 5th of january (right up until the day of the contest.Though If I am not ready during the week of the contest then its to late. So I think I will Start. On the 21st of this month 18 weeks out from the contest day giving me time to take it slow and make adjustments a lot easier then starting a cut 12 weeks out.

[Marauder63]

I never thought about it that way. I suppose I could have used my time more wisely.

I actually have a diet lined up I can use when I was working with some locals so I dug it up. It got me from 203.5-181.6 in 12 weeks

Thank you for the advice, as for my transformation I feel it will be complete once I step on stage. I thought of keeping a journal on here for my contest prep, 16 weeks out would be the 5th of january (right up until the day of the contest.Though If I am not ready during the week of the contest then its to late. So I think I will Start. On the 21st of this month 18 weeks out from the contest day giving me time to take it slow and make adjustments a lot easier then starting a cut 12 weeks out.


Edit: Come to think of it my staff holiday party is the 22nd and I think its a buffet style menu...

[rockhard]

Scooby, I've been doing rack deadlifts from just below the knee height, trying to minimize glutes/hams and spare lower back. My question is: should I let the bar settle to a dead stop or lower it short of resting and maintain tension between each rep? Looking to increase overall thickness/size, as my back is really lagging. You've seen my pics, so you know how weak this area is.....

Thanks!!!

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby, I've been doing rack deadlifts from just below the knee height, trying to minimize glutes/hams and spare lower back. My question is: should I let the bar settle to a dead stop or lower it short of resting and maintain tension between each rep? Looking to increase overall thickness/size, as my back is really lagging. You've seen my pics, so you know how weak this area is.....

Thanks!!!

Big Mark, hope all is well. Im a big time under tension (TUT) believer. I think it creates more hypertrophy. When I rack dead I do let the bar bang, but I never let it rest. That said I did 455 the other day and I got 3 reps and the bar did rest a little longer than usual, but generally Im controlled down, bar barely hits and Im exploding back up.

[Marauder63]

Back with a question,

Do you do both off and online contest prep work? (without going further should I be PMing you about this?). I have a diet in place I have done well with but I am not very knowledgable with carb/sodium/water manipulation and such. I have been looking forever for a 2nd job to be able to save for school and have extra aside ie like contributing towards bodybuilding.

[rockhard]

Big Mark, hope all is well. Im a big time under tension (TUT) believer. I think it creates more hypertrophy. When I rack dead I do let the bar bang, but I never let it rest. That said I did 455 the other day and I got 3 reps and the bar did rest a little longer than usual, but generally Im controlled down, bar barely hits and Im exploding back up.
Thanks Scooby, just what I needed.

[Shulk]

For a natural bodybuilder what have you found to be the optimal macronutrient breakdowns for DC training in terms of % of calories from carbs, fat, and protein?

[Scoobysnacks]

For a natural bodybuilder what have you found to be the optimal macronutrient breakdowns for DC training in terms of % of calories from carbs, fat, and protein?

That is no different than anything else, its varies so much. I will tell you while on it I didnt feel I needed as many carbs as I do when I train volume, but thats not rocket science is it, lol. But, there is no one breakdown for one person or natural or not. I wish it were that easy. Its just something you need to find thru trial and error.

[lex]

SS
I im alittle confused what exactly is a refeed.
Also right now im following daves offseason diet which is around 350g P, 200g C, 200g F, ive never incorperated that much fat but am having good gains im 195
ofcourse some fat started at 175 lean about 2 1/2 months ago. in the first month of diet my carbs were at 250 but body fat was creeping up fast so i cut my carbs to 200g and its working alot better. Does this mean im carb sensitive or a mixture of my fats being alittle high. how would i determine if im carb sensitive?
Thanks for any advise..

[k-dawg]

hey scooby, Im 6'1 185 and around 10 10-12 percent bodyfat..My goal is to get down to < 8 percent fat. I typically eat 300-400 grams of protein a day with fats around 60-100, and carbs just from brocolli. I just started a job at 330 in the morning and I unload trucks with 20-40 pound boxes....needless to say, its draining me... Im one to always eat low carb, was just wondering your thoughts on what I should do....I was thinking of adding 30gm waxy maize during my workout then continue with the usual dieting...thanks

[Scoobysnacks]

SS
I im alittle confused what exactly is a refeed.
Also right now im following daves offseason diet which is around 350g P, 200g C, 200g F, ive never incorperated that much fat but am having good gains im 195
ofcourse some fat started at 175 lean about 2 1/2 months ago. in the first month of diet my carbs were at 250 but body fat was creeping up fast so i cut my carbs to 200g and its working alot better. Does this mean im carb sensitive or a mixture of my fats being alittle high. how would i determine if im carb sensitive?
Thanks for any advise..

You arent carb sensitive thats just a fuck load of fat. You go mixing the two in those large amounts you will get some fat gain. The fact you arent a fat ass eating that much tells me you probably have a decent metabolism and its doubtful you are carb sensitive.

The people Ive truly worked with who are "carb sensitive" get sluggish as hell when they ingest them, get fat as shit quick, or even on small amounts really struggle to drop bodyfat.

A refeed can be many different things. Just depends. Ive done them as low as 300 carbs spread over the day cleany all the way up to around 1200 grams carbs of all fast acting not so clean foods. The more depleted you are, the longer you have been dieting, the leaner you are, and the lower your carbs are on a daily basis will dictate needs.

[Scoobysnacks]

hey scooby, Im 6'1 185 and around 10 10-12 percent bodyfat..My goal is to get down to < 8 percent fat. I typically eat 300-400 grams of protein a day with fats around 60-100, and carbs just from brocolli. I just started a job at 330 in the morning and I unload trucks with 20-40 pound boxes....needless to say, its draining me... Im one to always eat low carb, was just wondering your thoughts on what I should do....I was thinking of adding 30gm waxy maize during my workout then continue with the usual dieting...thanks

I couldnt lift myself out of bed on that diet much less unload trucks all day. Your protein is WAY to high and your carbs are WAY to low. Try this.

240 protein
300 carbs on working or training days
250 carbs on non working and non training days (basically rest days)
55 grams fat.

Try that, I think you will feel better and get better results.

[cft05]

Just wanted to give update on my contest prep. Since I originally posted in here I feel I should just update in here as well. I'm 2.5 weeks out weight is now 158 in morning, bf tested (although doesn't mean much) last week 4% this week 3.14%. I've been keto for 2.5 weeks and have started protein veggie days in a rotation as follows: 2 pro/veggie days then followed by one day regular 40g pro/15g fat (mac nut oil) at each 6 meals. I'm currently on recumbent doin 2nd 45min of cardio (stepmill 45min am cardio) 16 min and 26 seconds to go then carb refeed with last meal of tilapia. I'm doin yams, ezekiel cinnamon raisin bread, rice cakes with jam, and raisins and spice oatmeal. I'm doin this on my blackberry and all I can thibk about is cheesecake factory lol but am so focused on show...will post pics hopefully soon if not the comp photos will be up december 5th!

[cft05]

hey scooby do you have a general peak week strategy or protocol listed anywhere in the forums? I know everyone responds differently but I was looking for a little more information about it, thanks...

[Wolverine1974]

Scooby:

I'm trying to put together my keto diet. My LBM is around 160-165 I'm about 200 now). I see that you use 1.5 to 1.75 grams of protein per pound of LBM. I was wondering what you recommend for fat intake? How about calories? I'm definitely an ecto/endo, but much more towards ecto.

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby:

I'm trying to put together my keto diet. My LBM is around 160-165 I'm about 200 now). I see that you use 1.5 to 1.75 grams of protein per pound of LBM. I was wondering what you recommend for fat intake? How about calories? I'm definitely an ecto/endo, but much more towards ecto.

you are correct.

Id set it up at 240 protein, so 40 grams per meal.
Fats Id start high finish low. Probably around 21 grams per meal and work downward towards 14 grams per meal over time. As you increase your liss cardio. so thats 126 fats to begin. Keep carbs around 40-50 grams from the trace nuts you use and a few helpings of veggies. Dont forget your metamucil, you'll need it.

Another thing Ive also done with a few guys who were real stubborn, was have them do some HIIT after their refeed day. I use an all day refeed instead of the cheat meal that dave uses. So for a day or two they can do HIIT, then back to the LISS type cardio.

[Wolverine1974]

Scooby:

Thank you so much for the quick reply. I just returned to the gym after a long layoff and lost a ton of muscle and got real fat. Before I do anything else I need to get my bf down (at least 11-10%).

Again, thanks so much.

[Swoleslaw]

Hey Scooby, great thread.

Former fatty and Natty here with a few questions. I've lost about 100lbs of fat and put on 30lbs of muscle over the last 20 months. I am currently 5'10, 173lbs with the caliper putting me at 5% bf but I look to be about 7-8% in the mirror. I've been doing low carb for at least a year out of the past 20 months and started the keto diet in this thread about a month ago with the weekly cheat meal. I've lost 10 lbs in these 5 weeks and my lifts without losing strength in the gym. I am looking to cut to 170 or or a little lower. I would like to hit 6-7% bodyfat. This will be by far the leanest I've ever been in my life as I've always been yo-yoing between fat or chubby growing up.

My questions have to do with what to do once I reach my goal. I would like to maintain this level of leanness for 5-6 months before I start putting on weight again.

1. As a former fatty do you think this is beneficial in terms of
a. increasing insulin sensitivity?
b. tightening my loose skin? (a problem for me)
c. killing off old fat cells?
d. Making stubborn fat easier to get rid of? (I have an issue with chest fat, I assume since I was fat through puberty)
e. making gaining lean gains or fat loss easier in the future?

2. I plan on cutting cardio in half (currently at 2 45 minute sessions, fasted am and pwo). Getting rid of the fasted am would be easier for me, do you think this cardio session is more beneficial to me than the pwo one?

3. Would you just up the fats and cut cardio (my preference) or would you come off keto and add in a small amount of carbs to morning, pwo, and ppwo meals?

4. I have had great success so far with a single high fat, moderate to high carb, all-out cheat meal on sunday night. No matter how I adjust my diet, I obviously won't end up so depleted by the end of the week. Would you make any adjustments to this cheat meal since I am running maintenance?

5. Any suggestions for dealing with loose skin? I am currently supplementing vitamin C, E, and 8g of gelatin per day.

[Scoobysnacks]

Hey Scooby, great thread.

Former fatty and Natty here with a few questions. I've lost about 100lbs of fat and put on 30lbs of muscle over the last 20 months. I am currently 5'10, 173lbs with the caliper putting me at 5% bf but I look to be about 7-8% in the mirror. I've been doing low carb for at least a year out of the past 20 months and started the keto diet in this thread about a month ago with the weekly cheat meal. I've lost 10 lbs in these 5 weeks and my lifts without losing strength in the gym. I am looking to cut to 170 or or a little lower. I would like to hit 6-7% bodyfat. This will be by far the leanest I've ever been in my life as I've always been yo-yoing between fat or chubby growing up.

My questions have to do with what to do once I reach my goal. I would like to maintain this level of leanness for 5-6 months before I start putting on weight again.

1. As a former fatty do you think this is beneficial in terms of
a. increasing insulin sensitivity?
b. tightening my loose skin? (a problem for me)
c. killing off old fat cells?
d. Making stubborn fat easier to get rid of? (I have an issue with chest fat, I assume since I was fat through puberty)
e. making gaining lean gains or fat loss easier in the future?

2. I plan on cutting cardio in half (currently at 2 45 minute sessions, fasted am and pwo). Getting rid of the fasted am would be easier for me, do you think this cardio session is more beneficial to me than the pwo one?

3. Would you just up the fats and cut cardio (my preference) or would you come off keto and add in a small amount of carbs to morning, pwo, and ppwo meals?

4. I have had great success so far with a single high fat, moderate to high carb, all-out cheat meal on sunday night. No matter how I adjust my diet, I obviously won't end up so depleted by the end of the week. Would you make any adjustments to this cheat meal since I am running maintenance?

5. Any suggestions for dealing with loose skin? I am currently supplementing vitamin C, E, and 8g of gelatin per day.

wow, you'll have to give me a little more time, this week has been swamped this will take a little thought.

[Swoleslaw]

wow, you'll have to give me a little more time, this week has been swamped this will take a little thought.

haha, no problem. I still got a couple weeks left of dieting anyways to reach my goal so there is no rush. I appreciate any advice.

[Speedie]

Hey Scoobysnacks

I got my girlfriend i a ketose diet.
But after a week, she is not in ketose.
She is about 23-27 gram pr day, over 5 meals.
Inderectly by cashew nutts and my protein shakes and thing.
She way in at +/- 160ib 30% bodyfat.
Im guessing about 110-120ib lean.

So my question is.
Is the carbohydrate ketose max.
Relatet to lean body mass.

Im dropping her to sub 20 gram next week.
But shit, that is a small amount on a full day.
Does it realy take that little to keep her off ketose.?

Or should i try going even lower.
(http://forums.rxmuscle.com/member.php?u=938)

[Scoobysnacks]

Hey Scoobysnacks

I got my girlfriend i a ketose diet.
But after a week, she is not in ketose.
She is about 23-27 gram pr day, over 5 meals.
Inderectly by cashew nutts and my protein shakes and thing.
She way in at +/- 160ib 30% bodyfat.
Im guessing about 110-120ib lean.

So my question is.
Is the carbohydrate ketose max.
Relatet to lean body mass.

Im dropping her to sub 20 gram next week.
But shit, that is a small amount on a full day.
Does it realy take that little to keep her off ketose.?

Or should i try going even lower.
(http://forums.rxmuscle.com/member.php?u=938)

If she has never dieted before I question that approach to begin with. The keto diet is not some holy grail to dieting. Its hard IMHO, especially if you are ecto and need carbs. It may simply not be the approach for her.

Also, how do you know she isnt in ketosis? The sticks? Those things suck as far as I know.

Big question is 1) how does she feel? Good or brain fog? Is she losing weight and responding.

your carb intake is fine to get into ketosis.

Also does she weight train?

Lots of variable.

Anyways, good luck.

Ss

[Scoobysnacks]

HERE IS MY TAKE IN CAPS

My questions have to do with what to do once I reach my goal. I would like to maintain this level of leanness for 5-6 months before I start putting on weight again. IF YOU CAN MAINTAIN THAT FOR 5-6 MONTHS GOOD ON YOU, IT WILL TAKE WORK AND PROBABLY VERY LITTLE SOCIAL LIFE, I PREFER 10% FOR LOOKING GOOD AND FEELING GOOD, THE EFFORT I NEED TO MAINTAIN THAT LEVEL IS HARD TO JUSTIFY UNLESS IM GETTING READY FOR A SHOW. ITS FUN TO VISIT 6% BUT I DONT HANG THERE LONG. SO 5-6 MONTHS MAY BE TOUGH TO BEGIN WITH, ASSUMING YOU COULD MAINTAIN IT AND WANT TO MAKE SUCH SACRIFICES....

1. As a former fatty do you think this is beneficial in terms of
a. increasing insulin sensitivity? YES BECUASE YOU WILL HAVE TO DIET TO DO IT, SO ANYTIME YOUR BODY IS COME OUT OF CALORIC DEFICIT IT IS MORE INSULIN SENSITIVE FOR A WHILE.
b. tightening my loose skin? (a problem for me) PERHAPS, IF ITS ALREADY STRETCHED OUT OF WACK TO THE POINT IT LOOKS LIKE ELEPHANT SKIN, THAT WONT SNAP BACK, IF IT JUST LOSE BUT STILL SUPPLE THEN YES IT WOULD HELP
c. killing off old fat cells? FAT CELLS SHRINK ONCE YOU HAVE THEM YOU ALWAYS HAVE A PREDERTMINED AMOUNT, WHEN YOU LOSE FAT YOU SIMPLY SHRINK THE CELL DOWN TO NO SIZE, ONCE YOU START INTO A CALORIC SURPLUS THE CELLS FILL BACK OUT.
d. Making stubborn fat easier to get rid of? (I have an issue with chest fat, I assume since I was fat through puberty) STAYING LEANER IN THEORY IS SUPPOSED TO RESET YOUR BODYFAT SET POINT. IVE READ 6-8 MONTHS AT A BODYFAT TO RESET IT. I DONT KNOW ABOUT THIS THOUGH I STAYED AT 9% THROUGHOUT COLLEGE AND I CAN CERTAINLY GET ABOVE THAT IF I PUSH THE CALORIES, BUT EVERYTIME I DIET FAT LOSS DOES GET EASIER AND USUALLY GET LEANER THAN BEFORE, NOT SURE I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION.
e. making gaining lean gains or fat loss easier in the future? YES THE LEANER YOU ARE THE MORE INSULIN SENSITIVE THUS THE LEANER THE GAINS THE FATTER YOU GET THE EASIER IT IS TO ADD MORE FAT.

2. I plan on cutting cardio in half (currently at 2 45 minute sessions, fasted am and pwo). Getting rid of the fasted am would be easier for me, do you think this cardio session is more beneficial to me than the pwo one? NOT REALLY FOR MAINTENANCE EITHER WILL WORK IMHO.

3. Would you just up the fats and cut cardio (my preference) or would you come off keto and add in a small amount of carbs to morning, pwo, and ppwo meals? PERSONALLY I WOULD DEFINITELY ADD CARBS BUT I HATE TRAINING IN KETO, JUST NOT FUN, IM FLAT, WEAK AND IRRITABLE. BUT IF IT WORKS WITH YOUR BODY, THEN YOU COULD JUST UP FATS AND DO A GIANT REFEED ONCE PER WEEK, WHERE YOU GET IN 500 PLUS CARB IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME TO KEEP YOUR METABOLISM HEALTHY. NEED THE CARBS FOR THE THYROID.

4. I have had great success so far with a single high fat, moderate to high carb, all-out cheat meal on sunday night. No matter how I adjust my diet, I obviously won't end up so depleted by the end of the week. Would you make any adjustments to this cheat meal since I am running maintenance? IF YOU REALLY WANT TO STAY AT 6% AND YOU WONT BE AS DEPLETED, I WOULD DROP THE FAT, TO TRACE FATS, AND USE A HIGH CARB REFEED. LIKE SUSHI (OBVIOUSLY NOT SALMON VARIETY) OR ANY LOWFAT CARBS.

5. Any suggestions for dealing with loose skin? I am currently supplementing vitamin C, E, and 8g of gelatin per day.SEE ABOVE.

GOOD LUCK BUDDY.

[Speedie]

Also, how do you know she isnt in ketosis? The sticks? Those things suck as far as I know.


Could you tell Her that lol.
She tells me, what she wants to do. (like any normal relationship)
I just say ok.
She has tried everything before.

Trains 4or5 days a week
She feels good on the Dave diet. (i just used the 140ib one)
But my problem, is that she is pissed off at the sticks haha.

Funny about the ectomorph.
I am one, and i feel fucking fantastic on a fat and protein diet.
I ate more than the 200ib dave diet, and still lost fat. (im 160ib)
Everyone hates me, because i can stuff my face in.
And lose fat, at the same time.
(something she saw me doing, so now she want the same.)
But she went to the store, got the sticks.

But we will see, I guess.
I made a new plan for her about 1350 kcal.
And 15 g carbohydrates a day, see if that helps.
With the "stick" battle.

[Scoobysnacks]

Could you tell Her that lol.
She tells me, what she wants to do. (like any normal relationship)
I just say ok.
She has tried everything before.

Trains 4or5 days a week
She feels good on the Dave diet. (i just used the 140ib one)
But my problem, is that she is pissed off at the sticks haha.

Funny about the ectomorph.
I am one, and i feel fucking fantastic on a fat and protein diet.
I ate more than the 200ib dave diet, and still lost fat. (im 160ib)
Everyone hates me, because i can stuff my face in.
And lose fat, at the same time.
(something she saw me doing, so now she want the same.)
But she went to the store, got the sticks.

But we will see, I guess.
I made a new plan for her about 1350 kcal.
And 15 g carbohydrates a day, see if that helps.
With the "stick" battle.


Good luck it really comes down to is she responding.

Oh I can lose on a keto diet, thats not the issue, I lose to fast, Im in this to build muscle and keep it when I diet, for me that diet isnt optimal. I used it for a short period and it helped though, just wouldnt use it for long periods. Thats all.

[Speedie]

It worked, so she is happy. :)

I have a question for you.
When do you start losing you strength i ratio to you BF%
I have never done a diet for a show, so I`m just asking.
But how lean can you go, before it affects you training.

[Scoobysnacks]

It worked, so she is happy. :)

I have a question for you.
When do you start losing you strength i ratio to you BF%
I have never done a diet for a show, so I`m just asking.
But how lean can you go, before it affects you training.

This depends on how lean you are to start. Because if you are already in shape you wont have to push calories that low and you can gradually diet. also if you give yourself a lot of time you can diet on more calories and strength will go up.

With all that said, about 4 weeks out my strength is usually starting to suffer, no clue on my bodyfat. Some guys are still cock strong at 5-4% but id imagine Id be feeling that pretty intensely.

It just depends.

[jjjohns_10]

What's your opinion on the whole distilled water thing the last week before the show? Do u have a preference on the type of water u drink the last 5 days or so? Spring? Filtered? Tap?

Any input would be much appreciated! Thx a million

[Scoobysnacks]

What's your opinion on the whole distilled water thing the last week before the show? Do u have a preference on the type of water u drink the last 5 days or so? Spring? Filtered? Tap?

Any input would be much appreciated! Thx a million


Well I have a protocol where you switch to Distilled and use multi minerals, the theory being there are impurities in your water you dont want in you that could effect that thin skinned look, but you put back the good as distilled leaches minerals from your body actually. But, to be honest I dont think it makes much of a difference at all. You will be fine with spring water.

[Wolverine1974]

Scooby:

I made the changes you suggested regarding protein/fat for keto. What formula should I follow for the carb load for carbs/pro/fat? I know that I need to drop the fats but I don't even know where to begin. It seems that there are many different opinions regarding this.

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby:

I made the changes you suggested regarding protein/fat for keto. What formula should I follow for the carb load for carbs/pro/fat? I know that I need to drop the fats but I don't even know where to begin. It seems that there are many different opinions regarding this.

I dont really have a formula for it. if you are on a true keto for 6 days straight, training, cardio, you are depleted. Start at 500 carbs spread over the day, see how you react. if you hit a new low only a couple days after it probably wasnt enough. When I ran keto i started at 700 carbs and ended at 1200 for one day. id hit a new low around thurs or fri and Id refeed on sat. Thats the type of progression you want to hit, but what you need is diff from the next guy. Protein would be at 1 gram per lb of bw. Fats arent directly added, only rely on trace and choose carbs and meats that are low fat.

Let me know how it goes.

[Mr. Hyde]

Scooby i have a question about HIIT, is 3x a week to much? Im not a bodybuilder, more a gym rat. Im just looking to get leaner and be more athletic. I trained BJJ for 3 years and im looking to get back after a lay off. Heres how im doing it. Im not directly training shoulders, maybe some side laterals when i train chest.

Back / tris
abs / hiit
Chest / Bis
abs / hiit
Lower
abs / hiit
off

On training days my macros are 225/150/45
On HIIT days my macros are 225/100/55
My off day is a refeed day or cheat meal.

I started the diet at a sloppy 205 (5 8"). im down to 187 now. I havent been doing the split above but im thinking about it. Thoughts?

[Mr.Bones]

How long do you recommend someone be on the contest diet food before they actually begin the diet?

And what is the most effective way to carb cycle that you have found?

[Scoobysnacks]

How long do you recommend someone be on the contest diet food before they actually begin the diet?

And what is the most effective way to carb cycle that you have found?

Is the first one a trick question? LOL! I pretty much eat "contest diet food" as you call it ALL YEAR, the contests are won in the offseason. I just eat more of it. Now if you mean how long am I 100% strict before my diet, well Im not, Ill have a couple cheat meals per week off season, but 95% of my meals are bodybuilding meals, then when I start my diet its 100% adherence. Does that help?

There really is no one best way. What works for you may not work for me. I based where I start someone on metabolism, pics, bodytype, etc and so forth.

[-BLP-]

dieting 12 weeks - keto - start 28 march - i will harass you now n then, when i struggle lol

thk u

[Scoobysnacks]

dieting 12 weeks - keto - start 28 march - i will harass you now n then, when i struggle lol

thk u

Sounds good BLP, good luck, you starting a bit leaner this time?

Ss

[-BLP-]

Sounds good BLP, good luck, you starting a bit leaner this time?

Ss

yes 260 ,,

diet one week less, 12 weeks compare to 13 , 2 more meal a day at first , carb re-feed every 6 days not 7 , was too lazy do nothing on th 6 days , simply ridiculous it was

thk u

[jjjohns_10]

Scooby,
On the keto diet the way Dave has it set up, would it be acceptable to replace the 5-whole omega-3 egg+ 4 whites meal with a 7-8oz filet of salmon. I checked and calorically/fats/protein/carbs they are almost identical.

Reason I ask is the eggs are getting old, and I'm a big fan of salmon. Could eat it twice per day NO PROB!!!

[Scoobysnacks]

yes 260 ,,

diet one week less, 12 weeks compare to 13 , 2 more meal a day at first , carb re-feed every 6 days not 7 , was too lazy do nothing on th 6 days , simply ridiculous it was

thk u

You are definiely leaner, your lower back wasnt that lean at 8 weeks out last year. Good Luck BLP.

Ss

[Scoobysnacks]

Scooby,
On the keto diet the way Dave has it set up, would it be acceptable to replace the 5-whole omega-3 egg+ 4 whites meal with a 7-8oz filet of salmon. I checked and calorically/fats/protein/carbs they are almost identical.

Reason I ask is the eggs are getting old, and I'm a big fan of salmon. Could eat it twice per day NO PROB!!!

In my opinion if you hit the macros for that meal, and stay within your bottom line numbers I dont see it being an issue. What you are losing is that eggs have the highest bioavailability of any whole food protein. But, in the end I think you would be fine. Dave may say something different, but Im a bottom line guy. Hit the numbers and it should be fine.

Ss

[Mr.Bones]

Is the first one a trick question? LOL! I pretty much eat "contest diet food" as you call it ALL YEAR, the contests are won in the offseason. I just eat more of it. Now if you mean how long am I 100% strict before my diet, well Im not, Ill have a couple cheat meals per week off season, but 95% of my meals are bodybuilding meals, then when I start my diet its 100% adherence. Does that help?

There really is no one best way. What works for you may not work for me. I based where I start someone on metabolism, pics, bodytype, etc and so forth.

Wasn't a trick question at all lol:)

I just can't eat cutting foods unless I'm cutting for the most part.

[fulson4]

Scooby,

I have a question for you about skin tightening. I weighed in around 230lbs at 5'7 last year with alot of bodyfat. I lost alot of weight and am now about 8 weeks out from my first show. I am leaning up more and more every day I just have a problem with my lower ab area. although I do have a little bodyfat left to pull from that area my problem is a little bit of skin that didn't tighten up when I lost weight. any tricks to fix that without thermage or zerona treatments at a med spa?