How much of a difference did steroids make to your physique?

[Tatyana]

I found this article by Bill Dobbins, and I thought it was quite interesting.

He claims that steroids only confer a 10-20% advantage.

I also read on another site that only 20% of men and even fewer women have the genetics to put on any significant amount of muscle without assistance.

There isn't any scientific documentation of any of these claims, or at least I haven't found any yet.

I thought this would be an interesting discussion, as it is quite obvious to me that there are some women who are just naturally muscular and really don't need to take anything, and there are those who have a lot more difficulty in putting on any size and feel the need for a bit of assistance.

Obviously it is all about choice.

Do you think you need to take performance enhancing drugs?

If you have, do you think it has made a significant difference to your physique?




However, research demonstrates that anabolic drugs like steroids give only a small percentage gain to the bodybuilding physique.

This has never been measured in bodybuilders per se –although the actual experience of bodybuilders tends to bear this out - but powerlifters have been shown to achieve less than a 20% increase in performance (and some of this due to the placebo effect) in non-tested competition compared to meets that are drug tested, and it seems that the longer the powerlifter has been training, the more mature the lifter is, the LESS relative benefit he gets from using steroids – often as little as 10%.

That is, the drugs help close the gap between performance and potential, but they don’t actually change the degree of genetically given potential. So even if bodybuilders are benefiting in their development by a full 20%, this means 80% if what they achieve is "natural."

And if mature bodybuilders, who have been training for decades (which includes most of the pros) only see about a 10% increase, this means 90% of their size and muscularity is due to genetics, hard training, consistency and good diet – and not drugs.

There is no research to indicate that this percentage of increase is any different for women than for men or that anabolic drugs give women significantly greater benefits than males.

Steroids, for example, are simply synthetic analogs of testosterone.

Men have about 100 times the amount of testosterone in their bodies as do women; they are not 100 times bigger or more muscular and women who take male hormones do not develop muscles 100 times larger.

There are a lot more physiological and biochemical factors governing the development of muscle than just hormones.

[DR.BB]

The article is too loose and broad. For most BBers, we don't know what there genetic baseline is and to throw around 10-20% sounds arbitrary. And, hey an "only" 20% gain for someone benching 300 would mean a jump to 360. Or, a lean 10-20% gain in mass on 200lbs is significant too. But again, it's too general and nearly impossible to determine. Years ago, I watched my friend pack on something like 40-50 pounds and his bench went from 405 to 500 on the old real Parabolan. We all have seen people's physiques transform before our eyes in the gym from AAS, who can really determine the degree to which it was beyonf genetic potential. What about a great physique like Kevion Levrone, who now look like an average joe? I also observed someone with terrible traps transform them into massive, ripped traps with an enanthate/Big A cycle. Who knows if it was a 10% or 20% gain over his genetic potential. We all now AAS is dramtatic in its results.

[HeavyDutyGuy]

Bill sometimes says odd things. I experienced this first hand at a New Years party at Mentzer's about 12 years ago. My exwife and I got sucked into a conversation pit with him for over an hour. It took an act of desperation on my part to extricate us. I will say, however, he's mostly on target, he does know bodybuilding. I think he underestimates the effects of steroids on men with suboptimal test and especially on women. But its a very broad range- the bell curve again.

[Tatyana]

Thanks for the responses.

There is a distinct lack of women stating the effects of steroids on their physique.

[NPCfigure]

Thanks for the responses.

There is a distinct lack of women stating the effects of steroids on their physique.

Hey Tatyana,

While I have never taken AAS, I was curious what my trainer thought, if I tried anavar and GH, would it improve my physique. My trainers response was....my genetics are so-so, and while I may get slight improvement, it would be nothing that great. My genetics on a scale of 1-10 now are 5, to 6,and trying these things, would put me at about a 7 at best. My coach said I have the makings of a good local competitor, but not national level (which is fine with me) My coach felt the risks outweigh the benefits, why would I even try it. (especially with my medical hx..ie cancer twice)

I can say as part of HRT I used Estra-test for a period of 3 weeks, and it was awful! Lowest amount possible of testosterone, and I was getting acne, my hair was coming out, and I had horrible mood swings..just to name a few sides....Took about 1 month of stopping the HRT to see all the sides stop. Think I will just stick with the estrogen. :D

Sorry can't be much more help!

[Tatyana]

Hey Tatyana,

While I have never taken AAS, I was curious what my trainer thought, if I tried anavar and GH, would it improve my physique. My trainers response was....my genetics are so-so, and while I may get slight improvement, it would be nothing that great. My genetics on a scale of 1-10 now are 5, to 6,and trying these things, would put me at about a 7 at best. My coach said I have the makings of a good local competitor, but not national level (which is fine with me) My coach felt the risks outweigh the benefits, why would I even try it. (especially with my medical hx..ie cancer twice)

I can say as part of HRT I used Estra-test for a period of 3 weeks, and it was awful! Lowest amount possible of testosterone, and I was getting acne, my hair was coming out, and I had horrible mood swings..just to name a few sides....Took about 1 month of stopping the HRT to see all the sides stop. Think I will just stick with the estrogen. :D

Sorry can't be much more help!

Wow, what a cool coach not blowing smoke up your bum, and it is quite amazing that you are being realistic about bodybuilding and competing.

Thanks for the response.

[NPCfigure]

Wow, what a cool coach not blowing smoke up your bum, and it is quite amazing that you are being realistic about bodybuilding and competing.

Thanks for the response.


That is why I love training with him. No bullshit.....just honesty....and a hell of alot of tough workouts!:D

[Bigboi]

I'm not sure anyone can really say how much steroid contributed to their physique. I say this because no too many people train to their genetic potential b/4 taking gear.

[heavyiron]

Thanks for the responses.

There is a distinct lack of women stating the effects of steroids on their physique.
I noticed an obvious increase in hardness, not to mention strength and confidence. Diet dictated the physique changes more than the drugs in the ladies I have seen.

[Youngguns]

Well let's look at the top natural... and then Ronnie Coleman...

[Youngguns]

http://www.wnbf.net/images/about-sidebar-photo-002.jpg http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/SRT936/ron_coleman_2.jpg

[Allifit]

I'm not sure anyone can really say how much steroid contributed to their physique. I say this because no too many people train to their genetic potential b/4 taking gear.
REALLY good point- this applies well to male or female....

[Allifit]

Thanks for the responses.

There is a distinct lack of women stating the effects of steroids on their physique.

Because let's face it, although steroids are extremly prevalent, they ARE illegal in this country. Therefore I think it makes sense that people who do take them might want to refrain from discussing that in a publicly open internet forum board...

[Tatyana]

Because let's face it, although steroids are extremly prevalent, they ARE illegal in this country. Therefore I think it makes sense that people who do take them might want to refrain from discussing that in a publicly open internet forum board...


Very true. I meant to post this earlier; if anyone wants to comment but remain anonymous, then please PM me.

[Sistersteel]

Anabolics have helped me balance my physique out. I am still leg dominant, but have been able to hold on to a lot more size in my upper body while dieting down. I have not put on any "weight" on gear. I have only changed my body composition. Every year, I strive to be leaner at my weight. The drugs have helped me recover faster which is really one of the biggest reasons I started using to begin with.

[Allifit]

Very true. I meant to post this earlier; if anyone wants to comment but remain anonymous, then please PM me.

That's a great idea...... :)

[SallyAnne]

I think that relying on drugs to build your physique is a big mistake. I've stated it before: I've always been a "less is more" person when it comes to AAS. I ran my USA competition log on MD in 2007 and included the AAS I was taking and the doses. I had many, many people tell me that I was wasting my time because the doses were so small. lol I disagree.

AAS should be used to enhance your physique, not relied on to build it. I had a really good, solid foundation before I ever started using AAS, and I think that what it has done for my physique is to help balance me out. Hard work and dedication do the rest.

[Tatyana]

That's a great idea...... :)

I am in England as well, so there are not the same issues with legality.

[Big Sky Guy]

Even if all a person can expect is 10-20% improvement for an average person, that equates to a significant advantage over what they could expect to achieve without AAS.

From our experience, wife is meso, even 10 mg of Anavar a day with a touch more protien and heavier lifting has recompensated/restructured by dropping a couple % bf and added about 5 lbs of muscle which is obvious on a 120lb person. This is equivalent to an ~7% change with low dose Var under less than perfect conditions due to the stress and busyness of our life. Less stress should produce even better results.

A woman with superior genetics that is a super-responder to AAS (20% advantage) will come in with a 24 lb shift in fat/muscle. That is an incredible advantage on a woman with good proportions, tie-ins and thick muscle bellies....

[HeavyDutyGuy]

I think there's lots of people who train without steroids before taking anything. I trained for 15 years before going HRT. At one point I was bulked to 285 lbs with a 53 inch chest- sadly also 42 waist, was doing deadlfts with 445 lbs pulldowns with 325 lbs, squats with 425, etc. Using test, and a couple of derivatives, I've increased to 550 lb deads, 600 lb squats and other increases mostly in pressing movements. But that's also another 7 years of training as well. I find they add to muscular roundness and ability to hold onto muscle while on a strict diet. Weight gains weren't any different.

[FreakPeak]

I think that relying on drugs to build your physique is a big mistake. I've stated it before: I've always been a "less is more" person when it comes to AAS. I ran my USA competition log on MD in 2007 and included the AAS I was taking and the doses. I had many, many people tell me that I was wasting my time because the doses were so small. lol I disagree.

AAS should be used to enhance your physique, not relied on to build it. I had a really good, solid foundation before I ever started using AAS, and I think that what it has done for my physique is to help balance me out. Hard work and dedication do the rest.

I like your Style SA. Can you elaborate on your AAS and dosages please...or do I have to go over to MD? :)