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View Full Version : Manipulating fish oil intake to reduce possible reduction in muscle gains



Frosty
04-04-2009, 11:19 AM
I'm thinking if it's possible to help reduce the possible side effect of perhaps reduced hypertrophy from fish oil through reducing inflammation.

What role does DHA play in inflammation? I know EPA is the fat converted into the anti-inflammatory prostaglandins, so I was thinking perhaps DHA plays less of a role.

Which would be perfect since DHA is the main driver in increasing insulin sensitivity and still modifies genes to increase fat burning.

This would be great because if you took a fish oil that's very high in DHA and relatively low in EPA, perhaps you can reduce the anti-inflammatory effect while maintaining the fat burning insulin sensititizing effect.

Any thoughts if this reasoning might be correct?

NPCKnight
04-04-2009, 07:05 PM
i used to worry about that too. but i dont think it makes a damn bit of difference. Razor will tell you he or maybe it was people he has helped have mega dosed fish oils and gained lean mass. From what I read from Polquin, omega3 fish oils create a more anabolic environment. He said something to the effect of you can never have enough.

Frosty
04-04-2009, 09:21 PM
That's definitely interesting. I know I've heard of Poliquin helping guys gain mass by mega dosing the fish oil. I think the reason mentioned is the increase in insulin sensitivity to muscle tissue outweighs any negatives on inflammation.

I was just thinking perhaps with being heavier on the DHA you might still get the insulin sensitizing effect with less possible impact on inflammation, but I have no idea. Might not be worth it.

One question I have is his example. He often works with athletes that may not lift much or at all during their season and eat like shit, and when they come to him they're relatively out of shape. In this case quickly changing their insulin sensitivity with high quality training and essentially starting new training, might be something that's different with guys like us that eat better and train all year round. If we're leaner to begin with is there as much benefit to the high fish oil for mass gains since we're more insulin sensitive than someone that's been eating junk?

Frosty
04-05-2009, 12:41 AM
Ah, nix the DHA idea. Been reading more and apparently it also affects COX-2.

ChunkyThunder
04-06-2009, 03:03 PM
I really need to start taking fish oils. 3 grams a day is good to start right?

Frosty
04-06-2009, 03:04 PM
I really need to start taking fish oils. 3 grams a day is good to start right?

A maintenance dose is 3-4g. For body comp a bare minimum of 9g a day. You can go much higher for faster results.

ChunkyThunder
04-06-2009, 03:06 PM
9 grams, split up over how many times? Is 3 pills 3x a day ok?

http://www.puritan.com/top-sellers-076/omega-3-fish-oil-1200-mg-013326

and are those ok? 6 pills 3x per day with them

Frosty
04-06-2009, 04:44 PM
I can't speak for that brand, but 3 pills 3x a day with meals is fine.

GENESIS
04-06-2009, 04:49 PM
dude you over analyze supplements WAAAAYYY to much. and think way to highy the effects of a "supplement" can have on your physique. especially something as basic as Fish Oils...
if you really think that this can have such a drastic negative affect on your inflamatory response then dont take it. i dont see a difference...

Frosty
04-06-2009, 05:57 PM
I'm not entirely sure on the whole issue which is why it's interesting to discuss it. You have one extreme end that pretty much almost says to avoid fish oil while gaining to maximize gains, and you have the other extreme end with Poliquin using doses of up to 50g a day and getting people to lose fat and gain muscle at the same. If we want to be safe, I bet the answer for lean guys is somewhere in the middle or more towards a maintenance dose of fish oil like 4g a day.

My point with Poliquin is he is taking athletes that are essentially out of shape in terms of body comp and quickly altering them with training, diet, and fish oil in mega doses. So he got a guy that's 20% to 8% in a matter of a couple months using fish oil and gaining muscle at the same time, and his reason is because it is so powerful at increasing insulin sensitivity to muscle tissue that it makes you drop fat and gain muscle.

But what about guys that are already 6-8%? Will this still be so beneficial? Perhaps for guys that are naturally insulin resistant, but maybe not for guys that are naturally pretty sensitive to insulin. Maybe for these guys a maintenance dose is better, while more fish oil for the insulin resistant types.

Frosty
04-06-2009, 06:01 PM
In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think I just figured it out and answered my own question. Thanks guys!

GENESIS
04-06-2009, 06:13 PM
you are your own worst enemy

Frosty
04-06-2009, 06:14 PM
How? If no one thinks anything through, then you're just guessing. I don't see how guessing is better than making a smart decision.

GENESIS
04-06-2009, 06:29 PM
no... because of your decision to take fish oil, your now worried weather it will actually be good for you or not. Fish has been a major staple of dietary protein since the begining civilization that should be enough reasoning to eat fish. modern humans have created this "fish oil" and have marketed it and sold it for its positive health benifits, and the lack of fish in a daily diet. perhaps inflamation is a major factor when considering anabolism, but EVERYTHING in life has good and bad properties to it.

just eat fish, take the oil if you dont like the taste, or you feelk it can help you.

like i said earlier you over analyze everything... and i would also suggest that you dont take everything you hear to heart.

did you know exercising produces free radicals? using the free radical theory on cellular aging, your causing yourself to DIE!

i bet you wont stop working out, but that statement is also true.

Frosty
04-06-2009, 06:40 PM
Yeah, but your body upgrades its own production of antioxidants!

I agree fish oil is good and I've come to the conclusion that it should always be in there. For myself, a carb intolerant type, I'll tend to use a bit more. Not worried about muscle gain with that anymore now that I've thought things through :)