raising $ for wbbing

[tammyp]

while I think this was a very generous idea and much appreciated, I am concerned about it becoming a common occurance. that the athletes and fans will be funding the shows just to keep them going.

discuss...

[MsGuns]

while I think this was a very generous idea and much appreciated, I am concerned about it becoming a common occurance. that the athletes and fans will be funding the shows just to keep them going.

discuss...

Colette and Krissy touched on this on the last radio show...
If the competitors and fans can do it, why cant the promoters?
Are promoters going to look at competitors and fans next yr since they did it this yr?
Why are competitors putting in, they have enuff to worry about tryin to get to the show?

[K-Max]

So I guess we should be fund-raising every year to keep pro female bodybuilding shows going huh? I swear, I was at the supermarket yesterday and saw Muscle Girl Guide members selling protein cookies there. I broke down and brought a case.

[Suzanne]

I think it could lead to promotors maybe not trying very hard to get sponsors feeling the women and their fans will keep saving it.

It only took 2 weeks to raise the funds for tampa to come back so the promotors certainly could have found money if they wanted to

The sponsor money should be one big pot not i am sponsoring mens or figure. Just i am sponsoring X show.

[GirlyMuscle]

I think it could lead to promotors maybe not trying very hard to get sponsors feeling the women and their fans will keep saving it.

It only took 2 weeks to raise the funds for tampa to come back so the promotors certainly could have found money if they wanted to

The sponsor money should be one big pot not i am sponsoring mens or figure. Just i am sponsoring X show.Agreed.
You should go post that over in the "What can save Fbbing thread."

[MsGuns]

I think it could lead to promotors maybe not trying very hard to get sponsors feeling the women and their fans will keep saving it.

It only took 2 weeks to raise the funds for tampa to come back so the promotors certainly could have found money if they wanted to

The sponsor money should be one big pot not i am sponsoring mens or figure. Just i am sponsoring X show.

that was less than 2 weeks...
are you saying from the time it was annouced it was cancelled to the time the money was sent? cause unrealmuscle.com did it over night...

[K-Max]

that was less than 2 weeks...
are you saying from the time it was annouced it was cancelled to the time the money was sent? cause unrealmuscle.com did it over night...

So who profits?

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled as hell to see people step up and get involved and save shows like that. That's one of the things I love about the sport, so much fan loyalty.

I'm sorta playing devil's advocate here because when a popular show on the women's side is about to go under and fans save it, can it still remain financially viable or should it become strictly non-profit?

[Mufasa]

I posted this for Collette and Kristy to consider on their show:


IS IT TIME FOR A SUMMITT OF SOME SORT?

Colette and Krissy:

Somehow I think that recrimination and placing blame on individuals will get us no where when it comes to the current state of Female Bodybuiding; so I'll throw this out:

How about a weekend SUMMITT/TOWN MEETING?

It HAS to have Jim Manion; select sponsors ; AND the promoters serving as a panel; maybe DebbieB or Dave or Colette...SOMEONE serving as moderator; with those in attendance having input much like a City or County Commission meeting.

While a separate weekend may be better...it may be more feasible to hold it the weekend of the "AC" or the "Olympia" since most, if not all, parties would already be present.

Keep the Topic Focused and to the Point:

"What can and should be done to make Pro Female Bodybuilding Contest economically viable for the Promoters and Sponsors"?


While we may throw things out here and there on these Forums...this is serious enough of a topic where you have to have input from a) those who put up the money (sponsers and promoters) and b) those who ultimately make decisions (Jim Manion).

Summitts don't always end with the answers we want...but don't you guys think that its about time to do something?


Thanks, guys!



Mufasa

[Gaoshang Xiongshou]

Damn good idea. Would this be an open forum like some City Council meetings are, or strictly closed doors? A definite show of support from fans (numbers in attendance) could go a long way.

[Mufasa]

Damn good idea. Would this be an open forum like some City Council meetings are, or strictly closed doors? A definite show of support from fans (numbers in attendance) could go a long way.

G:

I would say open...but controlled...much like a City Council Meeting.

However...the moderator could gather questions for the panel before the Summitt, so that the most pressing concerns are covered first.


Mufasa

[Sledge]

while I think this was a very generous idea and much appreciated, I am concerned about it becoming a common occurance. that the athletes and fans will be funding the shows just to keep them going.

discuss...

I don't see why that's a concern. Isn't that how almost all sports run their competitions. IMO get rid of promoters dictating what happens at a show puerley based on $$ and put it back in the hands of of the competitors and fans. Can you imagine any other sporting federation/organisation allowing the woman's competition to be dropped because they wouldn't make a profit.

[Sledge]

I think it could lead to promotors maybe not trying very hard to get sponsors feeling the women and their fans will keep saving it.

It only took 2 weeks to raise the funds for tampa to come back so the promotors certainly could have found money if they wanted to

The sponsor money should be one big pot not i am sponsoring mens or figure. Just i am sponsoring X show.


I agree with you. the promoters aren't interested in womens BB because it doesn't put bums on seats and bring in the $$ for them. And I also agree the sponsors money should go to sponsor a show not one part of a show. But I'm sure that is manipulated buy the promotor too based on what will bring in more $$.


It would also mean that BBs would have to stop acting like princesses and stand up and help instead of just turning up on the day and complaining about everything. (and that applies to both male and female princesses.)

I know there are a few good promotors out there that don't make much money or ride on a thin line between profit ans loss. But I'll bet my arse those promotors are fans and/or competitors who put there money on the line for the sport they love. And thats exactly what we are talking about anyway fans and competitors running the sport.

[Mufasa]

I don't see why that's a concern. Isn't that how almost all sports run their competitions. IMO get rid of promoters dictating what happens at a show puerley based on $$ and put it back in the hands of of the competitors and fans. Can you imagine any other sporting federation/organisation allowing the woman's competition to be dropped because they wouldn't make a profit.


1) Fans are too fickle and inconsistent, much more than even the judges and promoters can often be.

2) To be a "PRO", its paramount to be under a sanctioning organization with qualifiers and competitive contest.

Otherwise, what you end up with is a series of "Conventions" or "Festivals" (Dare I say " Schmoe Conventions"?). While there are plenty who would love that, they would not represent a truly Professional organization.


Mufasa

[Carolyn Bryant]

Sledge it's already happening. Don't you know the LPGA and the WNBA would not exist if not for being subsidized by the men. Every freakin Division I athletic department lives by the football and MEN's basketball team. This from a guy who calls others ignorant. The Houston Comets went bye bye cuz the team failed to make a profit.

[Sledge]

You can't compare bodybuilding to American football and basketball. how about you compare it to a sport that's closer to what we are talking about. maybe Archery, synchronized swimming, Olympic lifting, pistol shooting etc I could go on and on with the small sports or another niche sports that seem to run competitions from local to national and international level without promoters. To compare bodybuilding to some obscure American college sports system (I assume that's what a"Division I athletic department" is) is a bit silly (you do know America is about the only place you get to go to university and play sport don't you). And even though I'm not American I never heard of a college bodybuilding team, but maybe I'm wrong.
Either way to try and compare bodybuilding to the big fan based professional sports is ludicrous . So lets pull our heads out of the clouds and talk about sports at a similar level of participation.

[Carolyn Bryant]

President Obama will fix the world economy crisis before someone steps in to try and figure out what will make women's bodybuilding profitable. Not that many people care. So there is your comparison to archery, synchronized swimming and all other NON-REVENUE sports. There have been lots of summits. The last one which involved any serious discussion about women's bodybulding was in 2000 or so and the verdict was 20% less muscle. TONE IT DOWN. There was another shortly after where the women argued for NO weight classes because it minimized the prize money. WOMEN ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE. There were two Ms. Olympia champions in 2000 who had to split pennies. Out of the next summit we got figure, the new women's bodybuilding. MO' MONEY, MO' MONEY! Even those girls start inhaling drugs like oxygen. So now we have Bikini. Perhaps the next thing will be to put a pole on the stage. The message is clear. COULD YOU WOMEN PLEASE SHOW UP LOOKING HEALTHY, FIT, AND SEXY. SOMETHING THAT THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CAN RELATE TO.

[Mufasa]

...There have been lots of summits. The last one which involved any serious discussion about women's bodybulding was in 2000 or so...


Carolyn:

If the last serious discussion was in 2000; then it seems like it's time for another.

(This was a great article, by the way):

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/other44.htm (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/other44.htm)



Mufasa

[Sledge]

President Obama will fix the world economy crisis before someone steps in to try and figure out what will make women's bodybuilding profitable. Not that many people care. So there is your comparison to archery, synchronized swimming and all other NON-REVENUE sports. There have been lots of summits. The last one which involved any serious discussion about women's bodybulding was in 2000 or so and the verdict was 20% less muscle. TONE IT DOWN. There was another shortly after where the women argued for NO weight classes because it minimized the prize money. WOMEN ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE. There were two Ms. Olympia champions in 2000 who had to split pennies. Out of the next summit we got figure, the new women's bodybuilding. MO' MONEY, MO' MONEY! Even those girls start inhaling drugs like oxygen. So now we have Bikini. Perhaps the next thing will be to put a pole on the stage. The message is clear. COULD YOU WOMEN PLEASE SHOW UP LOOKING HEALTHY, FIT, AND SEXY. SOMETHING THAT THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CAN RELATE TO.


But isn't women's BB and for the most part men's BB a non revenue sport. There is only revenue and revenue to be gained for/from maybe the top 10 men and a few lucky others who have a marketable "look" but they still don't make a living from competing in there chosen sport. Can you imagine an amature american basketballer being offered a pro contract that pays him nothing? In fact tell him he'll have to pay his own way to compete?

The practice of bodybuilding and the associated businesses have come ahead in leaps and bounds in the last 10-20 years hell bodybuilding as a business is HUGE. But competition bodybuilding has remained a stagnant non entity. Just ask anyone at your workplace who Ronny Coleman is and most won't ever have heard of him. Ask the guys training at yourt gym who ronny rockel is and expect blank looks. You can be the number 10 best professional bodybuilder in the world and not make a living from competing. And once your out of the top 10 you'd be pushing to make a living from associated business. For women I'd imagine most won't even cover airfares even the figure women.
To keep changing and softening the sport to try and use fuckability as a marketing tool is only going to work against the sport of bodybuilding. It might help the profits to the promotor but it will be the death of womens BB. Thats one reason i'm a member of NABBA and support there events, they never let the lines get blured between Mens bodybuilding, what womens physiqe and figure are suposed to be and they are about bodybuilding not profit. (well maybe a little profit, and sometimes the lines get a little blured:))

[jasons805]

that was less than 2 weeks...
are you saying from the time it was annouced it was cancelled to the time the money was sent? cause unrealmuscle.com did it over night...
At unreal a huge chunk came from one person.

[fitbody]

The sponsor money should be one big pot not i am sponsoring mens or figure. Just i am sponsoring X show.

totally agree with you here :beerbang:

[fitbody]

Agreed.
You should go post that over in the "What can save Fbbing thread."


absolutely !!!!!!!!!!
:beerbang:
thatz what i wanna figure out
is what needs to be done
and lets do it

[Sledge]

At unreal a huge chunk came from one person.


It makes me wonder why that one person didn't just become a sponsor for the show.

[Carolyn Bryant]

Thanks Mufasa. Glad you enjoyed the article. I think that was written in 2003 or 2004 to mark yet another disappointing event in our history. Don't recall what that was.

You're right though. Probably is time for another meeting. I can't see how it will do much good. The majority of the supplement companies market products to men. That's why you see model chicks with no muscles hanging on the male bodybuilders in their ads. Most fitness magazines cater to men who workout. Some enjoy the sport. Many don't. They just want to lift, look and feel better. Most fitness magazines that cater to women don't even bother to run space for hypermuscular females for all the obvious reasons. So in short, business people who invest in something usually want a return on their money. Promoters are in this to make money. The IFBB and the NPC are sustained by dollars not LOVE. That's why our sport is sponsored and saved each year by philanthropists who simply care about the women of iron.

[tammyp]

President Obama will fix the world economy crisis before someone steps in to try and figure out what will make women's bodybuilding profitable. Not that many people care. So there is your comparison to archery, synchronized swimming and all other NON-REVENUE sports. There have been lots of summits. The last one which involved any serious discussion about women's bodybulding was in 2000 or so and the verdict was 20% less muscle. TONE IT DOWN. There was another shortly after where the women argued for NO weight classes because it minimized the prize money. WOMEN ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE. There were two Ms. Olympia champions in 2000 who had to split pennies. Out of the next summit we got figure, the new women's bodybuilding. MO' MONEY, MO' MONEY! Even those girls start inhaling drugs like oxygen. So now we have Bikini. Perhaps the next thing will be to put a pole on the stage. The message is clear. COULD YOU WOMEN PLEASE SHOW UP LOOKING HEALTHY, FIT, AND SEXY. SOMETHING THAT THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CAN RELATE TO.
are you kidding me? lets see...we want some coverage, respect and shows to compete at. I hardly think that is not asking for to much.

[K-Max]

[/b]
are you kidding me? lets see...we want some coverage, respect and shows to compete at. I hardly think that is not asking for to much.

The respect is there. No question.

But the show coverage costs money too. However, in the beginning, I'm very sure there were people who were willing to volunteer time and money to covering shows with hypermuscular female bodybuilders.

With that said. Should the Female Bodybuilding that we know of now, (not necessairly figure or fitness), change its business model to be a non-profit venture?

Say for example, a foundation whos mandate is to continue supporting Female Bodybuilding shows and athletes through fundraising events, ventures and exhibitions and in addition shows where female bodybuilders could compete freely without restraints? It could still be sanctioned by the NPC / IFBB and paid for by the foundation.

[Big J1]

Sledge it's already happening. Don't you know the LPGA and the WNBA would not exist if not for being subsidized by the men. Every freakin Division I athletic department lives by the football and MEN's basketball team. This from a guy who calls others ignorant. The Houston Comets went bye bye cuz the team failed to make a profit.



Women's pro bowling LPBT
Women's pro soccer WSL
Women's pro softball WPSA

what do these things have in common....THEY ARE ALL GONE...and there are millions of amateurs in these sports..Women's pro bodybuilding is not the only women's pro sport in trouble...

and why did one guy give all the money and not sponsor the show...BECAUSE HE HAS NOTHING TO PROMOTE (not nothing but it is hard to have a public, in the light, face for unrealmuscle.com)...other than his love of women's bodybuilding...so the show goes on and right it should but we as both fans of fbb and with something to promote...RX Muscle, Species, etc.. must come up with a way to monetize the sport as an perpetual entity...or it will die....

Why? oh lots of reasons I guess, but ask yourself why ESPN, a sports network, covers Poker all day and night but not bodybuilding...There are 500 cable channels and there is no contest or prep coverage...Also there has not been a financially successful stand alone women's pro show in over 15 years....

I will save the discussion of reasons and actions for a later post, but in my alter ego as COO of Species Nutrition, I can only tell you we are working on the problem....Wish us luck.

Big J1

[BadBoy]

I will save the discussion of reasons and actions for a later post, but in my alter ego as COO of Species Nutrition, I can only tell you we are working on the problem....Wish us luck.
Women bodybuilders should support the companies that support them.

If they don't...

[Sledge]

Women's pro bowling LPBT
Women's pro soccer WSL
Women's pro softball WPSA

what do these things have in common....THEY ARE ALL GONE...and there are millions of amateurs in these sports..Women's pro bodybuilding is not the only women's pro sport in trouble...

and why did one guy give all the money and not sponsor the show...BECAUSE HE HAS NOTHING TO PROMOTE (not nothing but it is hard to have a public, in the light, face for unrealmuscle.com)...other than his love of women's bodybuilding...so the show goes on and right it should but we as both fans of fbb and with something to promote...RX Muscle, Species, etc.. must come up with a way to monetize the sport as an perpetual entity...or it will die....

Why? oh lots of reasons I guess, but ask yourself why ESPN, a sports network, covers Poker all day and night but not bodybuilding...There are 500 cable channels and there is no contest or prep coverage...Also there has not been a financially successful stand alone women's pro show in over 15 years....

I will save the discussion of reasons and actions for a later post, but in my alter ego as COO of Species Nutrition, I can only tell you we are working on the problem....Wish us luck.

Big J1


I've sponsored a show with nothing to promote. I did it because I could. Not as much $ as that individual but because I like to support the sport and was in a position to do so. They were having a hard time getting sponsors so I became one. I have nothing to promote at all, shit it didn't even get me laid. It's funny when i go to a local show here and the main sponsor is a trucking company or a furniture shop. Thes people obviosly don't realy gain a lot by there sponsorship business wise. but they are obviosly people with an interest in the sport and not in it for pure profit.
Hell the best amature show in my country was started by a bloke who pretty much did it himself right down the line. I don't think he's made much if any money from it he does it because he wants to (and he likes to complain alot about it.)
In the future I hope to be in a position to do it again, or even promote a show myself or as a part of a group of like minded individuals. Not to make a packet but because we want to.

The reason there is coverage of poker and not BB is because they give the poker players character and make them interesting and create conflict and drama. The players do nothing but sit there expresionless the comentators make them interesting by adding character. If BB became more than just a bunch of oiled up people posing in their underpants it'd have a lot more appeal to the viewer. Add some character and drama to the players, build tham up as villans and heroes. Their is no shortage of characters and extroverts in BB. People would watch it Kind of like a train wreck.

Good luck, I hope whatever your planning works.

[Curt James]

I think it could lead to promotors maybe not trying very hard to get sponsors feeling the women and their fans will keep saving it.

It only took 2 weeks to raise the funds for tampa to come back so the promotors certainly could have found money if they wanted to

The sponsor money should be one big pot not i am sponsoring mens or figure. Just i am sponsoring X show.


Agreed.
You should go post that over in the "What can save Fbbing thread."

Disagreed.

Sponsors should be able to focus their advertising dollars in the way they see fit.

That said, I don't see how any promoter wouldn't put time into getting sponsors for both men's and women's physique.

[Curt James]

I will save the discussion of reasons and actions for a later post, but in my alter ego as COO of Species Nutrition, I can only tell you we are working on the problem....Wish us luck.

Big J1

Good luck! :beerbang:

[fitbody]

but in my alter ego as COO of Species Nutrition, I can only tell you we are working on the problem....Wish us luck.

Big J1


WISHING YOU ALL THE LUCK IN THE WORLD !!!!
mucho gracious for all you are doing for the women
:bowdown: