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-Z-
04-05-2009, 02:17 PM
Ken "Skip" Hill will get you peeled. The mans results speak for themselves. The conditioning his competitors reach is truly amazing. His approach to contest prep is unique in many ways and very interesting. Here are some quick facts about Skip.

* National level competitor
* Training for 25 years
* Competing for 19 years
* Owns TEAMSKIP nutritional consulting and contest prep
* In addition to doing bodybuilding conditioning he also work with high level athletes
* Own IntenseMuscle.com
* TrueProtein Sponsored athlete for 5 years
* NPC Judge

Before asking questions read the following quote from another thread.



by Ken Hill

Q: Skip, can you tell us a little about yourself and your background?

My name is Ken Hill but everyone in the industry knows me simply as Skip. I am originally from Michigan and have lived in Denver, Colorado for the last eleven years. My wife of fifteen years and I have four children: sixteen, ten, eight, and three years old. I co-own IntenseMuscle.com and I own my contest preparation and nutritional consulting business, TEAM SKIP. I have been doing contest prep online for the last six years with clients worldwide. I have been training for twenty-four years and I am also a competitive bodybuilder. I knew that with my structure and size I would not dominate the competition so I needed another way to win. I decided to focus on conditioning and nutrition so that if I couldn't beat you on size I was going to beat you on condition. The problem was that the more I read and listened to others, the more things didn't make sense. I figured I would find out what did and did not work. Over the last twenty-four years I have set aside the "rules" and found some very successful, albeit unorthodox, ways to peak before a show.

Q: Before we get into the specifics of it all, how did the name "SkipLoading" come about? Did some of your trainees name it that and it became a staple over time or was it a conscious decision by you to have a specific name for the process?

SkipLoading is my version of what has been historically known as Sh**loading. An oversimplification of Sh**loading is to deplete your body of carbs, sodium, etc., then load on foods high in fat, carbs, and sodium usually the morning of the show. Using this approach, I adjusted timing, water intake, and types of food to find the right balance. Over time it evolved so much that it didn't resemble Sh**loading anymore. I discussed a lot of the differences on my website a few years ago and someone referred to it as SkipLoading and from there the name stuck. SkipLoading is the result of a lot of hard work to tweak and perfect the process. The name not only recognizes my efforts, it separates my adaptation from the original and gives the entire concept more credibility.

Q: Again before getting into the specifics of SkipLoading is there a testing process you use on a competitor in the weeks approaching a contest to see how he will react to it?

Absolutely. SkipLoading is incorporated into the leaning down process to a certain extent. As much as SkipLoading is a protocol for loading the last week before a show, quite a few components of the load are utilized in the leaning down process. This helps the metabolism stay fresh and primed and allows me to see how that client reacts to certain timing of foods, amounts of food, effects on the body's condition, etc. SkipLoading is very predictable but the constant trial runs throughout prep make the process as efficient as possible and at the critical last week before the show, the client and I know EXACTLY what to expect. Without the trial runs I would have clients asking me, "You want me to do WHAT???"

Q: When dieting down competitors are you pretty standard with your dieting methods at that time? Is there a certain plan of attack you use (hi/low/med carb days, Paleo diet, low carb, low fat...etc) or again does that vary by the individual?

I use the same principles for each client, and all diets include a combination of proteins, carbs, fats, and TrueProtein.com supplements to ensure they are getting the highest quality nutrients available. All clients will use re-feed or high-carb days, and I will not eliminate any macronutrient. That is where the similarities between clients cease. Based on the information requested of and provided by the client, food types, macro ratios, re-feed, and high-carb days are all designed specifically for that person. I do not use templates, software, or basic outlines for my diets. I develop individual starting plans for each client using a calculator, pencil, and paper. I do not make a client's situation fit my nutritional plan; I create a nutritional plan that fits the client's specific needs.

Q: Why did you venture away from the traditional carb load used by so many? What were the problems you saw with that way of doing things?

How much time do you have? : )

Simply put, the results of traditional carb loading are very inconsistent and usually negatively affect a bodybuilder’s condition. I regularly see competitors head into the final week before a show looking incredible only to appear on stage looking terrible. Sometimes they would be smooth from carrying water or flat with little definition. Those varied results often came from using the same approach with carb loading, which meant the traditional approach was not working. I discovered that most people were unaware of how carbs and water work together when loading. This is where things got interesting.

Q: With the difference of timing with a traditional carb load vs. a SkipLoading procedure, is the contest shape you want someone in the last week or two pre contest the same in each scenario?

It is pretty much the same, yes. There is a balance between being very lean and partially depleted for SkipLoading to be effective. With the old, original method, you had to be very depleted and I discovered that the timeframe to load was not long enough to fill out someone with a larger amount of muscle mass like the heavy and super-heavyweights. If you were too depleted you weren't going to fill out in time, either. SkipLoading eliminates these two variables, completely. It allows plenty of time to load and the bodybuilder’s size doesn’t matter.

I should point out that SkipLoading isn't just about the loading aspect of food, either. The term is meant to encompass everything including water and sodium intake and manipulation. I want to be clear that water control and sodium control, etc., are critical components of SkipLoading just as the method of loading carbs and filling glycogen stores. Anyone can get full for a show but SkipLoading allows you to be at your fullest and yet be very dry, tight and hard, as well.

Q: As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong) the SkipLoading process is started Friday night for a Saturday show vs. Wednesday afternoon, all of Thursday, all of Friday, and Saturday morning for a traditional carb load. Does the short timing of the SkipLoad prevent mistakes and things going haywire vs. the longer traditional carb load?

The timing of the old method (Sh**loading) was to start either very early on the morning of the show or later Friday night. SkipLoading can vary depending on the individual but usually starts on the Tuesday or Wednesday before the show. It can last one to three days, again, depending on the condition and how that client's condition reacts to the load. Most of the timing is solidified long before the last week because of the trial runs. We are fairly confident coming into the last week with how the load will look, how long the load will last, how much food, etc..

What can sometimes make a client uncomfortable is that one of the components of the load is what I call "fill and spill". You load so hard and you load until you spill water and are holding water. This can make someone very anxious if they didn't already know how their body would react weeks ahead of time. After the initial loading phase, other elements of SkipLoading are employed to basically "clean up the mess". This is where the drying out process starts and continues until show day.

Also noteworthy is that SkipLoading does not use diuretics of any kind. They simply are not needed with this loading protocol. I know some think "there is no way he can get them as dry as someone who would use a diuretic", and they are absolutely incorrect. My condition on stage as well as that of my clients is evidence enough. Of my forty-seven competitors that I put on stage last year, only one used a diuretic and that was against my advice.

Q: Do your clients have to use certain foods each time they do a SkipLoad, or can they just make use of the foods in their current environment (e.g., when traveling out of town to compete)?

The list of foods is not terribly specific, however, there are combinations of carbohydrates that I have found work well together. Example: It would be hard to load using only sugary carbs like pancakes and syrup because some people get nauseous using very sugary carbohydrate sources, exclusively. So, it is wise to mix starchy carbs in as much as possible to offset any possible nausea associated with only sugary carb meals.

The food lists I provide are general as I have clients all over the world and some foods or brands are not available. If the carbohydrates are low in fat, processed, and relatively high Glycemic index (GI), they will work just fine.

Q: Eating dieting foods for 16-20 weeks of one type and then using the skip load---do people experience stomach upset? Or this is weeded out during the testing phase?

This is not an issue because throughout the entire prep phase, a variation of SkipLoading is used for two reasons:

1. To keep the metabolism off guard and primed with a very high amount of carbohydrate approximately once a week and
2. To test the body's ability to fill out and how long it takes to both retain water and then shed it.

The effect that these re-feed or loading days have on the metabolism is insane. There are times where absolutely no diet changes are needed week after week due to the impact that the loading days have on the metabolism. I liken it to pouring gas on a fire in relation to carbs and the metabolism. Most of the time you can actually feel your body temperature go up either as you eat, shortly after you eat, or even all day on these loading days. It is common to sweat while eating these meals due to the metabolism gaining momentum. Also, the insulin response from high GI carbs once a week takes advantage of the body's own insulin production. When in a glycogen depleted state there is no concern with body fat being stored on these days due to the very high intake of high GI carbs. You come off of these days very full and can take advantage of added strength for a couple days in the gym as well.

The component of testing the body throughout the prep phase allows the competitor to know how much carbs are needed to fill out completely, how long it takes to retain water, and how long it takes to get that water off after returning to the original diet the following day. This is all priceless information as the show nears.

Q: What do you do for clients who are gluten intolerant or who have difficulty with dairy?

Dairy products are not included in contest prep or loads. Dairy is too unpredictable and many people have problems with digesting dairy on some level. It is just easier to leave it out, completely. I rarely run into someone with a gluten intolerance that actually gets in the way of a load so that hasn't been an issue, either.

Q: Can you give us an example of a hypothetical SkipLoad and the foods it would entail with a hypothetical competitor?

I will use my last show as an example to illustrate a typical SkipLoad. Understand that even though the foods may remain the same for someone else in a different situation, the timing of meals, frequency, duration, etc., would all be quite different. The varieties of foods that can be used are endless. I am listing the foods that I used.

I started my load very late on Monday night and it continued all day on Tuesday, only. It was structured like this:

Monday night about 11pm:
Texas French toast with real maple syrup
kid's cereal with TrueProtein.com protein powder mixed with water (strawberry Frosted Miniwheats, Fruity Pebbles)
1 large cinnamon and raisin bagel with jam and light cream cheese

Tuesday:
8:30am
Texas French toast and real maple syrup
kid's cereal with TrueProtein.com protein powder mixed with water (strawberry Frosted Miniwheats and Lucky Charms)

10:30am
French toast with syrup

1pm
Texas French toast with real maple syrup
spaghetti with spaghetti sauce
kid's cereal with TrueProtein.com protein powder mixed with water (cinnamon streusel frosted Miniwheats, peanut butter Captain Crunch)

4:30pm
spaghetti with spaghetti sauce
Texas French toast with real maple syrup and blueberry syrup

8pm
2 large cinnamon and raisin bagels with light cream cheese and homemade jelly
kids cereal TrueProtein.com protein powder mixed with water (Chocolate Marshmallow Maties and Captain Crunch Berries)

11pm
peach sorbet

It is important that the fat content of the foods is low but it doesn't have to be zero, either. Fat slows digestion and it gets in the way of carbs in the sense that if you eat less fat you can eat more carbs. You want the carbs to be high GI and highly processed so that the insulin response is as high as possible to pack away the carbs as glycogen. Also, it is far easier to get down a huge amount of carbs like this when they taste good. I am sure that you can imagine 1000g of carbs from white rice would be very difficult to do but 1000g of carbs from pancakes and syrup is not that hard to do at all.

You may think this would be easy, but I assure you that after that first meal or two, it becomes a chore to get the food down for the rest of the day. Some have to load for two or three days depending on their situation so getting down the required amount of food can end up an arduous task.

The day after the end of the load you should be skin-splitting full but watery or starting to get watery.

Keep in mind that there are variations of this load used throughout the leaning down phase of the prep to not only gauge the body's response to loading but to keep the metabolism fresh and running red hot. Clients often comment after their shows that this was the easiest prep they have ever done. Combine that with their best condition and you have a win/win situation across the board.

Q: After doing the loading part of SkipLoading, how do you handle the excess water and get that competitor tight and dry prior to a Saturday show?

This is actually the easy and most predictable part of the process. In weeks prior to the load, we have already determined how long it takes that competitor to drop the water from the load and get back to their sharpest condition. Excess water is dropped in a period of one to four days prior to the show.
Following the load, water intake must be high, as it was throughout the prep. During a load, it is difficult to drink the required amount of water because the volume of food ingested is very large. This usually keeps water intake down during the load from the levels during prep. Immediately after the load is finished, water intake has to return to the high point that it was prior to the load. This is usually in the area of seven to twelve liters a day depending on the competitor.

The diet must return to the pre-carb intake levels, as well. Even if there are carbs in the diet, and there almost certainly will be, the level of carbohydrate intake is so drastically low compared to during the load that it will not get in the way of moving water and drying out the competitor. Most would think that carbs need to be cut to zero or very low but that is not the case.

Sodium must also return to pre-load levels and sodium levels should always be relatively high while prepping. Usually, sodium intake is anywhere from 3-8g per day depending, again, on the competitor. Another misconception is that sodium levels must be low for water to be moved and the competitor to get dry. This poor advice and theory has resulted in many competitors appearing flat and lacking detail on stage. Approaching a show, sodium levels should not be cut provided your water intake is where it should be (very high). I have witnessed many competitors go from looking incredible a week before a show to looking terrible following a cut in sodium.

After a couple days the competitor will see the water shifting away from under the skin and being excreted. However, the fullness in the muscle stays because sodium is high, water intake is high (fully hydrated), and there is no activity other than posing so glycogen isn't being depleted at a dramatic rate. Fullness will remain constant unless the diet from the end of the load to show day is too low in calories and carbs.

With SkipLoading, there should be no loading on Saturday morning. You simply get up in the morning, keep your diet just as you had the previous day and step on stage in incredible condition with a nice balance of fullness vs. dryness.

Q: How do you control "spilling over" during your water manipulation, using the SkipLoading technique?

The body will hold water when there is not enough water being ingested. When water is running through the body on a consistent basis little water is retained if the electrolytes are balanced. If your sodium levels are too high you can still hold water but if the water intake is high, the sodium requirement increases as well.

Also, it is important to note that water is not "shed" or controlled by manipulation of sodium levels with SkipLoading. It is manipulated entirely by loading carbs and adjusting water intake. The fastest way to go flat, and I see it happen all the time, is to drop sodium levels too low trying to "get water off". The amount of water and the timing of its intake are crucial and will vary between clients. It is not uncommon for sodium levels to remain anywhere from 3g to as high as 8 or 9g per day up to the last week before a show. When you understand how sodium relates to other electrolytes and how it relates to manipulating water, you will hit the stage harder, fuller, and drier than ever before.

Q: What is the biggest difference your clients have noted between the SkipLoad and other methods they have used for manipulating water and increasing fullness?

The primary difference is that the balance of fullness vs. dryness is achieved. Every competitor has a balance of dryness vs. fullness that is optimal for THEM. You always have to give up at least some of one to get the other. The trick is to find the balance that has that competitor as dry as he can be and yet as full as he can be. This is exactly what SkipLoading accomplishes.

Most other loading methods are based on the concept that you load up to a day or so before the show and try to control water by cutting it at ridiculous times, cutting sodium a couple or three days out, etc.. When people ask what SkipLoading is, I tell them that if they take what the normal competitor does and simply do everything opposite, that is SkipLoading. Most of the principles of SkipLoading seem to be very backwards from what is known as "fact" when it comes to the last week of prep. My reputation is taking things that are supposed to be known as fact and blowing them out of the water.

Q: Many competitors including pros have found themselves in high risk or even fatal situations due to diuretic use or better yet, misuse. You've experimented and found a way to bring people in bone-dry consistently without using diuretics, thereby making it a safer way to obtain that final stage-worthy dry look that is so sought after. Could you give us an overview on how this came about and how it works?

Diuretics have ruined many competitors’ conditions and it is not needed if you know how to manipulate water. I have always said that people get too caught up in water restriction or elimination when they should be focusing on water MANIPULATION. You don't want to necessarily get rid of water; you want to make sure it is in the right place which is in the muscle. Just like a carb load, diuretics are often misunderstood and misused, and can ruin a competitor’s conditioning.

SkipLoading not only fills you out but manipulates and shifts water into the muscle so using a diuretic becomes unnecessary. It isn't always easy to tell a new client that they will not be using a diuretic because they are so used to using them. I have heard many times "then how in the hell am I going to get dry?” as if there is no other way to get bone dry. My loading protocol has become so popular not only because of the competitor’s ultimate condition, but also because it does not stress the kidneys like the use of diuretics does. My clients do not have to worry about a trip to the emergency room after a show. In my opinion, diuretics have likely contributed to the increase in failing kidneys in bodybuilding over the last ten years. This increase in kidney related issues is alarming.

Q: How do you manage the SkipLoad during the day of the show?

If everything has been done properly and the competitor's condition is 100% in the morning, the day is handled as the previous day less the water intake. Water is routinely cut at bedtime on Friday night for a Saturday show. After the body cycles through such a large amount of water over the course of so many days, it will assume that when the competitor gets up Saturday morning that this will continue. Since the body assumes water intake will be the same, it will continue to excrete water the day of the show. As a result, the competitor continues to dry and harden as the morning progresses.

If the competitor wakes up flat on Saturday morning after SkipLoading, it is due to a lack of carbs. Because water intake has been high, the body is essentially 100% hydrated. Sodium is high and would not be the cause, leaving carbs as the culprit. At this point, carbs need to be ingested but the best way to do this is to take in foods high in three things: sodium, carbs, and fat. The sodium will efficiently pack the carbs away as glycogen, and the fats will control the rate that the carbs hit the bloodstream preventing a shock to the system. These foods are very easy to incorporate because they are things that taste very good like fast food burgers, fries, doughnuts, pizza, cookies, etc. The best foods are those you crave as they contain the sodium, carbs, and fat. You then eat in relation to your condition. If you are filling out, you do not need to eat as much. If you are not filling out, you keep eating. The only thing to watch for the day of the show is abdominal distention. Overeating can cause the stomach to bulge so if you are working on filling out, you will want to eat as much as you can without causing stomach distention. With water intake being cut the night before, there will be no water control issues while eating these foods. When loading in this manner, your condition will not worsen unless you take in too much water.

Q: Are there times you will not use the SkipLoading process on a competitor and will go to a more traditional plan?

No. I may change the timing, the loading day or days, water, sodium, and/or other variables but the principle of SkipLoading remains the same for every single competitor. I had forty-seven clients take the stage in 2007. Each one used SkipLoading tailored to their needs and this put them in their best ever condition.

Q: What are some of the things that can go wrong with SkipLoading if not done right?

A few things can go wrong but you have to really work at making it fail:
1.If a client does not load enough, they will not fill out, which results in a flat look minimizing muscle detail. A full muscle shows much more detail and hardness.
2. Overloading or not cleaning up the water post-load, results in a smooth appearance.
3. Water retention varies greatly between people, and forcing off water with diuretics or drastically cutting sodium often results in a flat appearance on stage.

While only a few things can go wrong, they can be disastrous on your conditioning and ultimately affect your final placement.

Q: Do your clients generally experience a rebound after a SkipLoading week?

Rebounds are not common. The main reason is that the only real change is in the amount of carbs that are eaten. Sodium levels are not dropped, water is not cut early, and diuretics are not used, so there is no real rebound after the show. During a typical load, most competitors’ rebounds are due to the reintroduction of water, sodium and after the use of a diuretic. When sodium is reintroduced combined with increased water intake, a competitor may put on up to twenty or more pounds in the days following a show.

With SkipLoading the rebound is subtle and when the post-show foods are introduced there is little shock to the system and weight does not fluctuate dramatically. The heart and kidneys are typically much safer from the dangers frequently found when other methods are employed.

It should also be noted that with SkipLoading it is very easy to compete in shows that are only one to two weeks apart because of the lack of rebound in bodyweight. After a show, if that competitor is back on his diet Monday his condition will be rock solid by Wednesday or Thursday at the latest. The load typically requires modification, and will vary by the individual, but it is relatively easy to pull off and much more predictable than a traditional approach.

Q: Can you or would you SkipLoad a fitness or figure competitor?

I do, yes. The process for fitness, figure, or female bodybuilding does not differ from that of a male bodybuilder. All require a balance of fullness and dryness and SkipLoading can be used for any of them.

Q: When dieting down competitors is there a specific number of weeks out from their show you like to start the dieting process or do you do this on a case by case basis?

I am recognized for my work in the weeks immediately preceding a show. I do, however, prefer to work with a client through the entire prep. Sixteen weeks is typically an adequate time frame to evaluate a client’s reaction to various situations and scenarios prior to the critical pre-show focus. I may require more or allow less time, but sixteen weeks is best practice.

I also insist that guys do not come to me out of shape. There are those who believe they are "off season" when they are truly just too fat. I am very good at what I do and I have saved many a train wreck but that is not my business. I am in the business of putting people on stage looking like they have no skin. To do that, I cannot have clients that are too heavy and carrying far too much body fat. It makes the process of dieting torturous on the client, it usually eats at least some hard-earned muscle, and you will almost always get on stage tighter, harder and carrying more of your muscle when you come into the start of a prep leaner than fatter.

Q: What is the #1 mistake you see or hear about competitors doing during the last week of prep before a bodybuilding show?

Gee, only one?
The problem I hear most often is "I didn't carb up enough" or "I had too many carbs". If someone is flat, they naturally assume that it was a lack of carbs, when most of the time it probably was not the case. The problem was likely dropping water early, not taking in enough water, sodium too low, etc. If the competitor is soft and holding water, carbs are often blamed again when it is likely that they did not properly control water intake following a load. Even those not lean enough blame the carbs. Carbs are the usual scapegoat for almost all condition-related issues.

Q: How is cardio utilized during this whole dieting process? The last week?

I am much bigger on cardio than I used to be, during the course of contest prep. However, I still don't go crazy with it and I tend to use it more as a tool than something to rely on to get lean. As an example, most will make their caloric intake fluctuate to keep their metabolism off balance and that is a good idea. However, a comparable idea is to vary cardio levels and do so even before changing caloric intake. Anytime you reduce cardio, you rest your body which makes you less likely to over train. You want to do as little work as possible when in dieting mode whether that is training or cardio. Do what is necessary and that is it.

During the last week before a show cardio is not used. It is cut at least one week before the show as the metabolism is on fire at that point and usually can "coast" through the last couple weeks. This gives the lower body a nice opportunity to rest and recover before the show and it also makes it easier to load if your metabolism is not red hot.

Q: It is known thru the bodybuilding grapevine (underground) that you have worked with and helped some very well known NAME bodybuilders in the sport (pro's and top amateurs) yet it has been kept under wraps and not said publically, why is that? Due to the entities that sponsor that bodybuilder or the contracts they have?

Sponsorship and contracts are factors, but there are a myriad of other reasons names are not publicized, starting with professional courtesy. Often the bodybuilder has a long and established relationship with another top nutritionist and they come to me for the last couple weeks for fine tuning. Leanness can be accomplished with the help of most nutritionists in the industry. What separates me from others is the consistent, replicable achievement of hardness, fullness, and dryness when my clients hit the stage. As a result, many employ their nutritionist to become lean but come to me for the last, critical weeks leading up to the show.

Some request confidentiality because they do contest prep as well. While people of any profession benefit from the expertise of others in their field, many do not want their own customers to know they have someone else helping with their prep work. Such advertising might be great for my business but not necessarily theirs.

Until recently I have not publicly discussed the clients I work with. However, in working with more high-profile athletes and bodybuilders I am learning that the exposure for some clients may be critical in landing them endorsements or obtaining sponsorships. IntenseMuscle.com is well known and read by a lot of prominent figures in the industry. I was surprised to learn of the increasing attention the website and my clients are receiving. It only seems fair that they get the attention that they have earned.

Q: One last question Skip, you are known for your vast knowledge of diet, nutrition, and contest prep, however, do you develop training programs for clients as well?

95% of my clients are looking for assistance with their conditioning whether it be getting them peeled for a show, getting them leaner without giving up hard earned muscle, or maintaining their leanness during the offseason while they still grow and gain muscle tissue. I have trained for 24 years and will provide training guidance, if requested, but this is not usually what people are looking for when they approach me.

Scoobysnacks
04-05-2009, 02:39 PM
well I enjoyed my 15 minutes of fame with my also rand Q&A, COMPLETELY kidding bro, glad to have you aboard here.

So whats skiploading, I kid I kid.



Ss

-Z-
04-05-2009, 02:47 PM
I just thought you both had great advice to share with everyone. I enjoying learning about both of your methods.

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-05-2009, 02:48 PM
I anticipate more like 20-30 minutes of fame. hehe

I am looking forward to this thread. It will get me "out of the house" for a little while everyday.

Skip

Scoobysnacks
04-05-2009, 09:17 PM
I just thought you both had great advice to share with everyone. I enjoying learning about both of your methods.

It was totally a joke, skip is awesome at what he does and this section is lucky to have him. Skip has a good sense of humor so I was just playing around, he got it. No worries from me.

Im gonna sticky this one too, so its easy for everyone to find.

-Z-
04-05-2009, 09:33 PM
When starting someone on prep do you instantly start using your skip loading method or do you get them down to a certain body fat and then introduce it?


Other than the skip loading what kind of protocal is the person using the rest of thr week? High carb, low carb, high fat?

bgoo101
04-05-2009, 10:05 PM
welcome Skip sweet to have you on board !!!! :)

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-06-2009, 05:45 AM
welcome Skip sweet to have you on board !!!! :)

Thank you. I am here till Thursday. Try the veal.

: )

You would have to have kids to understand that one.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-06-2009, 05:51 AM
Well, Z is on it right out of the gate. : )

It is not related to bodyfat as much as it is overall work and how depleted they get as we get into the prep. Usually, the loads will start right away but they are much weaker to start and they progressively get stronger. However, do keep in mind and I will remind members of this a LOT: There are a ton of variables that change the SkipLoad even from week to week. I couldn't even begin to list them all.

The rest of the week could be pretty much anything from low card to relatively high carb to no carb. Unlike a LOT of guys out there that do what I do (or try) they usually are known for a certain method of dieting. Example: I think we all relate Chris Aceto to larger carb intake while Dave P is known for very low or no carb diets. I have clients on whatever works for them and is in their best interest. Some guys NEED high carbs during the week and others just can't function much at all or make progress on moderate carbs so they need lower carbs and a higher fat intake. I am only known for SkipLoading - not for a certain method of dieting the rest of the week. I CAN say that I am not big on carbs. I feel that most people only need to take in enough carbs for what they need out of their training and current goals.

Skip



When starting someone on prep do you instantly start using your skip loading method or do you get them down to a certain body fat and then introduce it?


Other than the skip loading what kind of protocal is the person using the rest of thr week? High carb, low carb, high fat?

evilive138
04-06-2009, 11:48 AM
Good to see you around Skipper.

-Z-
04-06-2009, 11:55 AM
Usually, the loads will start right away but they are much weaker to start and they progressively get stronger.

Why, does the body just need more each time to respond the same?

Do you use the same foods every skip load and just add to that amount each time, or as needed?

Skip

...

almard
04-06-2009, 04:22 PM
Skip, Do you beleve that some one can gain mass and lose fat at the same time in off season mode? Do you think he can gain mass while get his body fat down slow to 8-6% body fat?

Dan
04-06-2009, 04:53 PM
Hi Skip

During the off-season what are you thoughts on skiploading to stroke the metabolism?

Thanks

bgoo101
04-06-2009, 11:01 PM
Thank you. I am here till Thursday. Try the veal.

: )

You would have to have kids to understand that one.

Skip

i have no kids skip. tho im sure you have 3 yeah... :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

bgoo101
04-06-2009, 11:04 PM
hi skip

during the off-season what are you thoughts on skiploading to stroke the metabolism?

Thanks

bump ! :)

adrenaline rush
04-06-2009, 11:55 PM
Skip, how often during contest prep (general range), do you have your athletes do a trial skip load?

Koubs
04-07-2009, 02:11 AM
When you do recommend training protocols: Are you more an advocate of high volume or lower volume training?? Or does it more depend on the individual?

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-07-2009, 06:19 AM
You don't need to use the same foods for every refeed, no. Again, it is hunger based as far as knowing how much to eat within the time frame that I set up for each competitor. As we add food it is usually added in the form of added meals or, lately, I have started doing it by hours instead of meals.

You need more and more food because the more you diet and the lower your calories go during the week, the metabolism wants to slow down in response to the lower caloric intake. You get more and more depleted as the show gets closer so if you kept the same refeed you would find that you would get to the point whre you would not even fill out much, at all.

Skip

...

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-07-2009, 06:22 AM
Skip, Do you beleve that some one can gain mass and lose fat at the same time in off season mode? Do you think he can gain mass while get his body fat down slow to 8-6% body fat?

First question: Absolutely yes and I do this so many times every year that it I sometimes can't believe that I get asked this. It is a fair question but to me it is an absolute and definite yes.

Second question: I have guys increase their strength all the way to sometimes the 4 week out mark. So, the answer is yes BUT ... the increases may be so subtle that it can't even be quantified other than seeing the strength gains. When the bodyfat gets that low, you aren't going to put on any obvious size. Any size that you put on getting that lean is going to be very minimal and most are going to struggle to get anything at all and just maintain the mass they have.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-07-2009, 06:25 AM
Hi Skip

During the off-season what are you thoughts on skiploading to stroke the metabolism?

Thanks

This depends a lot on how you are dieting in the offseason and where your carb intake is. If your carb intake is relatively low, then SkipLoading days are going to be beneficial. If your caloric intake is relatively high and your carb intake is high enough that you don't really get depleted, at all, during the week then a SkipLoad isn't going to be as beneficial. Now, I would rather have a client SkipLoad and get a lot of carbs vs. having a "cheat" meal where they get a ton of fat and really don't gain anything much from the meal.

There are a lot of variables, though, that go into whether a SkipLoad is necessary in the offseason and to what extent, if it is.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-07-2009, 06:26 AM
i have no kids skip. tho im sure you have 3 yeah... :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

I have 4. : )

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-07-2009, 06:27 AM
Skip, how often during contest prep (general range), do you have your athletes do a trial skip load?

Usually, they end up taking place once a week for the duration of the prep. Now, if you mean not only the loading but the water plan and all of that, I don't do that as a trial run. I only do the loading as a trial run. I have a water plan and sodium plan, etc., that doesn't need to be run as a trial at any point. It just flat out works.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-07-2009, 06:31 AM
When you do recommend training protocols: Are you more an advocate of high volume or lower volume training?? Or does it more depend on the individual?

Every single thing that I do whether it be nutritional or training or supplementation is geared towards that one individual. I have my opinions on things like carbs and supplements and volume of training but everyone is different and one thing I said I would NOT do when I started doing this years ago was that I would not have one way to do things and make others "fit" my style or protocols.

I do believe in lower volume training for the most part because I feel that the majority of people overtrain easily on higher volume. However, I am currently doing a higher volume training style right now, personally, for a change of pace and like it.

I am not a big fan of carbs on a daily basis. I think they need to be in there but I think that taking in more than you need on a daily basis is a waste and for MOST people, I think that most people don't tolerate carbs that well. This is just based on my experience. However, as there are always exceptions, I have taken guys into the last week of their prep on 400g of carbs per day because that is what worked for them.

Skip

FU*KMD!
04-07-2009, 09:44 AM
During off season how do you prefer to keep bodyfat in check? Cardio, cycle carbs, cycle calories, etc?

Thanks

adrenaline rush
04-07-2009, 10:32 AM
Usually, they end up taking place once a week for the duration of the prep. Now, if you mean not only the loading but the water plan and all of that, I don't do that as a trial run. I only do the loading as a trial run. I have a water plan and sodium plan, etc., that doesn't need to be run as a trial at any point. It just flat out works.

Skip

Thanks Skip! So is that a cheat meal once a week? And Im assuming if someone has a lot of ground to make up (i.e. they come to you later than they should) they dont get this luxury?

Myth
04-07-2009, 01:48 PM
First question: Absolutely yes and I do this so many times every year that it I sometimes can't believe that I get asked this. It is a fair question but to me it is an absolute and definite yes.

Second question: I have guys increase their strength all the way to sometimes the 4 week out mark. So, the answer is yes BUT ... the increases may be so subtle that it can't even be quantified other than seeing the strength gains. When the bodyfat gets that low, you aren't going to put on any obvious size. Any size that you put on getting that lean is going to be very minimal and most are going to struggle to get anything at all and just maintain the mass they have.

Skip

I can attest to this. I got stronger on all my lifts even up until my very last workout prior to my contest. In fact, my final workout (one week out) saw me front squatting the most I had ever done, ON or OFF season, and it was all with Skip's guidance!

Myth
04-07-2009, 01:50 PM
Thanks Skip! So is that a cheat meal once a week? And Im assuming if someone has a lot of ground to make up (i.e. they come to you later than they should) they dont get this luxury?

The loads are not cheat meals; they are refeed meals; big difference bro. And all clients get them, regardless of how much "ground" they have to "make up." :D

adrenaline rush
04-07-2009, 02:12 PM
The loads are not cheat meals; they are refeed meals; big difference bro. And all clients get them, regardless of how much "ground" they have to "make up." :D

oh okay, so its pretty much high carb low-no fat....makes sense....do you usually restrict it to one big meal?

Koubs
04-07-2009, 03:25 PM
Supplements: Do you recommend anything in particular for your clients or are there any supplements that you have them stay away from (like with Dave: He doesn't like anything with stimulants)??

Dan
04-07-2009, 04:37 PM
This depends a lot on how you are dieting in the offseason and where your carb intake is. If your carb intake is relatively low, then SkipLoading days are going to be beneficial. If your caloric intake is relatively high and your carb intake is high enough that you don't really get depleted, at all, during the week then a SkipLoad isn't going to be as beneficial. Now, I would rather have a client SkipLoad and get a lot of carbs vs. having a "cheat" meal where they get a ton of fat and really don't gain anything much from the meal.

There are a lot of variables, though, that go into whether a SkipLoad is necessary in the offseason and to what extent, if it is.

Skip
Thanks for the reply Skip!
Im taking in .8 x BW of carbs split between Meal 1, PWO1 and PWO2 for my 4 training days
The remaining 3 days are Meal 1 and Meal 3 of .3 carbs X BW
Protien is around 2 x BW and fat is .5 x BW

With this in mind you you advise 3-4 load meals once a week and adjust from there?

Thanks

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-07-2009, 05:14 PM
During off season how do you prefer to keep bodyfat in check? Cardio, cycle carbs, cycle calories, etc?

Thanks

Primarily diet. I think that some cardio in the offseason is a very good idea but the diet controls bodyfat levels in the offseason and the precontest prep far more than cardio does.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-07-2009, 05:16 PM
Thanks Skip! So is that a cheat meal once a week? And Im assuming if someone has a lot of ground to make up (i.e. they come to you later than they should) they dont get this luxury?

Now, I am ok with answering questions here but you gotta read the article that is posted, too. It will give you a lot of information and answer a ton of questions. I don't do "cheat" meals and never have. My loading meals are very high carb and low fat.

Skip

adrenaline rush
04-07-2009, 08:03 PM
you're right skip, my fault...reading it now.

Scoobysnacks
04-07-2009, 08:46 PM
Skip,

Question regarding sodium. In the article I seem to understand from it that after a Skipload you get water back to the pre-load levels and same with sodium. My question is does that also apply say Thurs and Friday before a show if they loaded on Weds. Its seems it would as this restores homeostasis and allows the body to actually release the water, but was wondering if it made sense to just restore the sodium from normal diet foods but not add back in the sea salt if a client was using that or other outside dietary sodium.

Care to/or can you shed any light on this?????

Ss

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-08-2009, 02:11 AM
Skip,

Question regarding sodium. In the article I seem to understand from it that after a Skipload you get water back to the pre-load levels and same with sodium. My question is does that also apply say Thurs and Friday before a show if they loaded on Weds. Its seems it would as this restores homeostasis and allows the body to actually release the water, but was wondering if it made sense to just restore the sodium from normal diet foods but not add back in the sea salt if a client was using that or other outside dietary sodium.

Care to/or can you shed any light on this?????

Ss

Usually, the client goes back to normal sodium intake as it was before the load (along with water intake). I know that you understand how this works but some think that sodium has to be very low to "move water" when in fact it just has to be lower than it was previously. So, after coming off of a load that is very high in sodium, when a client returns to the pre-load sodium levels, those levels are much lower than the load levels so there is still a strong shift in water. However, you still remain relatively full because you aren't going to very low or even zero sodium.

You can imagine what would happen if you went from a load to very, very low sodium levels and high water intake: FLAT as shit and in record time. You would literally watch your condition go to shit in as little as 48 hours.

Skip

Scoobysnacks
04-08-2009, 09:33 AM
I know that you understand how this works but some think that sodium has to be very low to "move water" when in fact it just has to be lower than it was previously.

Skip

Everyone should re-read that....a COUPLE times.

Good post.

Ss

Frosty
04-08-2009, 10:27 AM
Usually, the client goes back to normal sodium intake as it was before the load (along with water intake). I know that you understand how this works but some think that sodium has to be very low to "move water" when in fact it just has to be lower than it was previously. So, after coming off of a load that is very high in sodium, when a client returns to the pre-load sodium levels, those levels are much lower than the load levels so there is still a strong shift in water. However, you still remain relatively full because you aren't going to very low or even zero sodium.

You can imagine what would happen if you went from a load to very, very low sodium levels and high water intake: FLAT as shit and in record time. You would literally watch your condition go to shit in as little as 48 hours.

Skip

Wow does this help prevent post-contest rebound a lot, too?

almard
04-08-2009, 11:18 AM
Hi skip,
Do you think if any one wan't to gain mass in short period of time for a show... it will be better to bulk and get some fat, or you recomaned stay lean in the off season?

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-09-2009, 06:13 AM
Wow does this help prevent post-contest rebound a lot, too?

GREAT point but even more important than that is when you have 2 shows only 1 week apart you can peak for both. You don't have to pick which one you will be 90% and which one you will be 100%. Your body is used to SkipLoading once a week, anyway. By Wednesday you are dry again and ready to roll.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-09-2009, 06:15 AM
Hi skip,
Do you think if any one wan't to gain mass in short period of time for a show... it will be better to bulk and get some fat, or you recomaned stay lean in the off season?

I am a contest prep guy first but I do have a LOT of guys coming to me the last handful of years that are tired of getting fat in the offseason. You don't have to add fat to grow but you also can't stay 5%, either. What I always say is that you can remain a lot leaner than most people think and still grow very well. I have clients all the time drop 30 pounds and are stronger at the lower bodyweight. When this happens you have to ask yourself: "What the hell was I carrying those extra 30 pounds for?"

Skip

maxxmuscle
04-09-2009, 11:28 AM
I am a contest prep guy first but I do have a LOT of guys coming to me the last handful of years that are tired of getting fat in the offseason. You don't have to add fat to grow but you also can't stay 5%, either. What I always say is that you can remain a lot leaner than most people think and still grow very well. I have clients all the time drop 30 pounds and are stronger at the lower bodyweight. When this happens you have to ask yourself: "What the hell was I carrying those extra 30 pounds for?"

Skip

Great point !Couldnt agree more.I am stronger now @ just over 200lbs than i was at 250lbs.The joints takes a bit more of a beating atm due to me being pre contest,but i dont see me going above 225 when contest is over.....and the joints will be fine when im carrying a little extra fat...

Scoobysnacks
04-09-2009, 03:57 PM
curious to hear your take on HIIT type cardio. There is always debate over this. I see Aceto adds it first in the prep then once lean goes with LISS. I know Layne uses more than any type of LISS work. I myself prefer LISS and only use HIIT if necessary to bring in legs down the stretch.

Curious if you use it ever yourself and with those you prep.

Ss

bgoo101
04-09-2009, 05:40 PM
whats your protocol on re-bound gaining, taking advantage of the open window ?

MDur8
04-09-2009, 05:44 PM
Is it a problem if you dont baseline within 3 days but by the time the next refeed comes your a 1/2-1 pound under from the last week?

hilly
04-09-2009, 05:53 PM
Ken whats your thoughts on supplements pre am cardio when dieting. i do cardio before meal 1 but dnt take any glutamine of bcaa before hand. do you recommend this or not??

chris250
04-09-2009, 06:21 PM
Great to see you on here ---

Nice thread ---

chris250

buster12
04-09-2009, 06:35 PM
skip, are you still working with "teen wonder" kevin deiner?

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-10-2009, 05:41 AM
curious to hear your take on HIIT type cardio. There is always debate over this. I see Aceto adds it first in the prep then once lean goes with LISS. I know Layne uses more than any type of LISS work. I myself prefer LISS and only use HIIT if necessary to bring in legs down the stretch.

Curious if you use it ever yourself and with those you prep.

Ss

Well.... lol ..... *sigh*
I am going to blog about my thoughts on cardio and it is going to be a little different than most think. : )

I will say that I don't like HIIT. To ME it is too intense and too much on the CNS. During a prep the name of the game is recovery and the more intense you do ANYTHING the more it can work against you. Obviously, you have to train intense but even then, anything past failure is a waste, in my opinion. You don't need to do high intensity techniques to maintain muscle mass. Now, you might have to do them to increase muscle mass but during a prep is not the time to be looking to gain size.

Back to cardio: Simply stated and I am going to bail on this here so that I can hit it harder in my blog but cardio is highly over-rated. Also, cardio should not be looked at simply as "how many calories can I burn" but rather "how can I efficiently hit my metabolism just enough to amp it up and then back the fuck off and let my diet do the work?"

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-10-2009, 05:44 AM
whats your protocol on re-bound gaining, taking advantage of the open window ?

Oh, you mean the "time to get fat and pretend it is muscle mass" window? : ) lol I call it that because that is what most people SHOULD call it based on how they treat it.

This time is HIGHLY misunderstood. About the only thing happening is that you usually fill out incredibly quickly and far more than you have been in weeks and sometimes months. How this equates to new growth, I have no fucking idea and I mean no offense to you, the guy asking the question. I don't know how this "post show window" got so distorted.

Sure, on paper it all works out like a mathematical equation. Alot of things work on paper and in logic and yet don't add up to a damned thing. I think the post-show rebound is absolutely one of them that adds up to not much of anything.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-10-2009, 05:47 AM
Is it a problem if you dont baseline within 3 days but by the time the next refeed comes your a 1/2-1 pound under from the last week?

That isn't a problem, at all, no. Now, I don't know your situation, exactly, but given the info you stated above, it would not be a problem, no.

It isn't important when you baseline as much as it is important to find YOUR patterns for baselining and what your weight is doing along with strength, etc.. People don't pay enough attention to patterns and fluctuations. Example: If you train legs hard and get pretty sore, your weight is going to be up a couple pounds the next day or so. People ask me all the time why their weight is up and some flip out about it thinking their body is telling them to fuck off like they are getting fat or something. Look for patterns so that you can see and know why things are happening.

If you get below baseline, that is all that matters.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-10-2009, 05:50 AM
Ken whats your thoughts on supplements pre am cardio when dieting. i do cardio before meal 1 but dnt take any glutamine of bcaa before hand. do you recommend this or not??

AND FLIES DON'T LAND ON YOUR EYES????

I don't take anything myself and I don't recommend anything. I know, Layne will hit me with a study or two right over the head but .... I am not a study kind of guy. Hell, I used to train first thing in the a.m. on an empty stomach and got stronger until 4 weeks out and stood on stage in my usual condition. Studies say I should have wasted away because I was .... here it comes ... CATABOLIC!! AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

I don't want an insulin response from anything - even BCAAs before doing cardio. I have yet to see anyone waste away by doing cardio on an empty stomach but ... I do see a lot of guys talking about catabolic this and catabolic that and saying they have to hang onto muscle mass and ... they show up fat on stage. Things that make you go .... hmmm.....

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-10-2009, 05:51 AM
Great to see you on here ---

Nice thread ---

chris250

Thank you, Chris. It is great to see you here, as well. Hope all is well with you and your family.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-10-2009, 05:52 AM
skip, are you still working with "teen wonder" kevin deiner?

I am. In fact, we just started yesterday, actually. I will have him the entire prep this time for Collegiates. Last time, I had to save him from a trainwreck from his pompous trainer that I won't mention by name. : )

Skip

MDur8
04-10-2009, 09:04 AM
That isn't a problem, at all, no. Now, I don't know your situation, exactly, but given the info you stated above, it would not be a problem, no.

It isn't important when you baseline as much as it is important to find YOUR patterns for baselining and what your weight is doing along with strength, etc.. People don't pay enough attention to patterns and fluctuations. Example: If you train legs hard and get pretty sore, your weight is going to be up a couple pounds the next day or so. People ask me all the time why their weight is up and some flip out about it thinking their body is telling them to fuck off like they are getting fat or something. Look for patterns so that you can see and know why things are happening.

If you get below baseline, that is all that matters.

Skip

Thanks Skip:beerbang:

THUNDERGOD
04-10-2009, 11:25 AM
Wow!!! Great to see you here Skip. With Dave, Chis and now you this board will be the place to get all the prep advice. 3 of the best guys in the business.

hilly
04-10-2009, 02:15 PM
AND FLIES DON'T LAND ON YOUR EYES????

I don't take anything myself and I don't recommend anything. I know, Layne will hit me with a study or two right over the head but .... I am not a study kind of guy. Hell, I used to train first thing in the a.m. on an empty stomach and got stronger until 4 weeks out and stood on stage in my usual condition. Studies say I should have wasted away because I was .... here it comes ... CATABOLIC!! AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

I don't want an insulin response from anything - even BCAAs before doing cardio. I have yet to see anyone waste away by doing cardio on an empty stomach but ... I do see a lot of guys talking about catabolic this and catabolic that and saying they have to hang onto muscle mass and ... they show up fat on stage. Things that make you go .... hmmm.....

Skip


thnks for the info skip much appreciated

almard
04-10-2009, 02:30 PM
SKip,
Do you beleve in, you should eat only when you are hungry?...Phil hernon advice his clinet to eat only when they get hungry...It does make since, but I really wan't to know your opinion bro?...Thank you

chris250
04-10-2009, 05:33 PM
Skip,

what is your opinion of taking alot of time off of AAS in the offseason, then say just going on all out the final 16 weeks precontest ? Ofcourse, I still mean training pretty hard int the offseason, and staying pretty lean to...Growing into the show...

chris

bgoo101
04-10-2009, 06:03 PM
Oh, you mean the "time to get fat and pretend it is muscle mass" window? : ) lol I call it that because that is what most people SHOULD call it based on how they treat it.

This time is HIGHLY misunderstood. About the only thing happening is that you usually fill out incredibly quickly and far more than you have been in weeks and sometimes months. How this equates to new growth, I have no fucking idea and I mean no offense to you, the guy asking the question. I don't know how this "post show window" got so distorted.

Sure, on paper it all works out like a mathematical equation. Alot of things work on paper and in logic and yet don't add up to a damned thing. I think the post-show rebound is absolutely one of them that adds up to not much of anything.

Skip

sure i understand , but keeping a clean diet cycling carbs.. going into a mass diet... froma depleted state i gained 31lbs and kept 15lbs in 8 weeks.. yes i got watery and lil body fat tho when i dieted that off i was 15lbs heavier..works for me .. i gained lean muscle mass..not natty tho.. was on test and deca... low doses..

buster12
04-11-2009, 01:09 AM
I am. In fact, we just started yesterday, actually. I will have him the entire prep this time for Collegiates. Last time, I had to save him from a trainwreck from his pompous trainer that I won't mention by name. : )

Skip
I know who that is... lol:D

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-11-2009, 05:23 AM
SKip,
Do you beleve in, you should eat only when you are hungry?...Phil hernon advice his clinet to eat only when they get hungry...It does make since, but I really wan't to know your opinion bro?...Thank you

Again, not everyone is different so .... Dave P does keto and sometimes my clients are keto but .... not all the time. Chris Aceto is known as a higher carb guy and some of my clients are higher carb during the week but ... not all of my clients. I do have some clients that are on a more hunger based diet but there are specific reasons for this and, again, it isn't everyone that I train but a very small percentage.
I think it is a great idea for some but not all.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-11-2009, 05:25 AM
Skip,

what is your opinion of taking alot of time off of AAS in the offseason, then say just going on all out the final 16 weeks precontest ? Ofcourse, I still mean training pretty hard int the offseason, and staying pretty lean to...Growing into the show...

chris

I hate to say this but I won't opine on gear out in the open forums, anywhere. I know it is ok to talk about it here and not at my board but I am just not comfortable doing that. If you want to him me with a PM I will give you my thoughts, though. Just please be patient with me because I won't be online much this weekend. I am house hunting.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-11-2009, 05:28 AM
sure i understand , but keeping a clean diet cycling carbs.. going into a mass diet... froma depleted state i gained 31lbs and kept 15lbs in 8 weeks.. yes i got watery and lil body fat tho when i dieted that off i was 15lbs heavier..works for me .. i gained lean muscle mass..not natty tho.. was on test and deca... low doses..

I should be clear and say that everyone responds differently so if it worked for you, I believe you. My point is that too many people blow up and get fat and think they have gained so much muscle. Even in your case, you admitted you were depleted so I still say that you didn't "grow" new muscle tissue as much as you filled out and there may have even been a short-lived supercompensation effect going on.

It is just not something that I believe strongly in, at all, and I feel it is highly misunderstood.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-11-2009, 05:30 AM
I know who that is... lol:D

: )

Skip

bgoo101
04-11-2009, 05:13 PM
I should be clear and say that everyone responds differently so if it worked for you, I believe you. My point is that too many people blow up and get fat and think they have gained so much muscle. Even in your case, you admitted you were depleted so I still say that you didn't "grow" new muscle tissue as much as you filled out and there may have even been a short-lived supercompensation effect going on.

It is just not something that I believe strongly in, at all, and I feel it is highly misunderstood.

Skip

so what would your protocol be ? on growth spurts , you dont have to detail.. thanks skip:bowdown:

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-12-2009, 07:02 AM
I don't mind giving out some detail but I don't understand your question, I don't think. I don't believe that the post-show window is about this huge opportunity for new growth. That is pretty much it. lol *shrug*

Skip

almard
04-12-2009, 09:23 AM
Skip,
What do you think of fst-7 training?

buster12
04-12-2009, 02:29 PM
: )

Skip
I don't like him. He took all the credit for kevin's teen national win. When it was pretty much you who were responsible. Skip, I heard your notorious for getting Bodybuilders like 3 weeks out who are behind on prep, and then make them look spectacular. How do you go about doing this? What is the most common problems you see that you are usually able to fix with theses guys? And one more thing- have you ever had to use a diaruetic? ( had to add the last question;))

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-13-2009, 05:30 AM
Skip,
What do you think of fst-7 training?

lol
Oh shit ... Here we go. : )

I have a lot of respect for Hany and we have a good rapport. We aren't tight but we can laugh and get along just fine and I think there is a mutual respect. I could be wrong - maybe he thinks I'm a dick, I guess I can't be sure. : )
Anyway, I .... think that he is very good at promoting himself and I mean this in a good way. He can take something that isn't terribly spectacular and make it very exclusive and highly sought after. I will admit that I don't think that FST7 is anything spectacular BUT ... if it gets people excited about a different way to train and they progress, hey, there is certainly no way to fault Hany for creating this "product".
The question, however, was what I think of FST7 and I don't believe that it is anything more than reinventing the wheel. I think that the more work you do in the gym the more you will likely overtrain.
I will leave it at that. : )

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-13-2009, 05:38 AM
I don't like him. He took all the credit for kevin's teen national win. When it was pretty much you who were responsible. Skip, I heard your notorious for getting Bodybuilders like 3 weeks out who are behind on prep, and then make them look spectacular. How do you go about doing this? What is the most common problems you see that you are usually able to fix with theses guys? And one more thing- have you ever had to use a diaruetic? ( had to add the last question;))

You know, the trainer that we are talking about really did think he was responsible, though, because my client didn't want to tell him that he was working with me because the two of them worked together at the same gym. He was sneaking the shitloading food in his bag and then leaving backstage to eat it. lol I can't blame the trainer for thinking the credit was his but he should have known that Kevin was a wreck at 3 weeks out (relatively speaking) and then all of a sudden the kid is changing right before his eyes. Uh, hello. *shrug*

I get what I call "trainwrecks" during the course of the year and I know when to expect them because it happens about 4 or 5 weeks out when I get the first emails "I don't think things are going too well so if things don't turn quickly can I work with you ....". In another week they are panicked and can't transfer funds fast enough.
Honestly, usually the issue is that they weren't getting enough attention and they fell behind and the shitty trainer didn't notice and/or care. Most trainers get so busy that they don't pay attention to all of their clients like they should. When they fall behind they come to me because I guess I am known for fixing some serious messes with a pretty good track record. Even Kevin wasn't 100% but ... I only had 3 weeks, I mean, come on. ; )

I don't use diuretics unless something is happens and is a little out of whack. It RARELY happens. IE: 50 preps and 2 will use a mild diuretic. By the time i have a client coming into the last week, we have rehearsed and done the load so many times that it is nothing more than a formality. We already know how it is going to work, to what degree, what the end result will look like, etc.. There is very rarely a surprise.

Skip

almard
04-13-2009, 05:57 AM
lol
Oh shit ... Here we go. : )

I have a lot of respect for Hany and we have a good rapport. We aren't tight but we can laugh and get along just fine and I think there is a mutual respect. I could be wrong - maybe he thinks I'm a dick, I guess I can't be sure. : )
Anyway, I .... think that he is very good at promoting himself and I mean this in a good way. He can take something that isn't terribly spectacular and make it very exclusive and highly sought after. I will admit that I don't think that FST7 is anything spectacular BUT ... if it gets people excited about a different way to train and they progress, hey, there is certainly no way to fault Hany for creating this "product".
The question, however, was what I think of FST7 and I don't believe that it is anything more than reinventing the wheel. I think that the more work you do in the gym the more you will likely overtrain.
I will leave it at that. : )

Skip

haha... I agree with you bro......:beerbang:

bgoo101
04-13-2009, 05:59 AM
I don't mind giving out some detail but I don't understand your question, I don't think. I don't believe that the post-show window is about this huge opportunity for new growth. That is pretty much it. lol *shrug*

Skip


Ok then i respect that !!!:beerbang:

well do you believe priming for a growth spurt ?

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-14-2009, 05:31 AM
Ok then i respect that !!!:beerbang:

well do you believe priming for a growth spurt ?

Look, the easiest way to talk to me and have me understand you is to treat me like a retard. Talk to me in retard tone because I swear I don't understand you. LOL

Seriously, be specific on what you mean because I just don't know what you mean by priming for a growth spurt. What or when would there be a growth spurt?

Skip

bgoo101
04-14-2009, 06:31 AM
Look, the easiest way to talk to me and have me understand you is to treat me like a retard. Talk to me in retard tone because I swear I don't understand you. LOL

Seriously, be specific on what you mean because I just don't know what you mean by priming for a growth spurt. What or when would there be a growth spurt?

Skip

PM me if you dont want to answer on the thread.. sorry i repect you i dont want to talk to you in that manner LOL ,..thanks mate !:beerbang:

Priming is a prepatory method used to better prepare the body before starting an AAS cycle. The goal of priming is to make the system very sensitive to a flood of androgens, food and intense training. Most advanced bodybuilders (especially those that compete) know how responsive the body can be right after leaning up - such as the growth spurts that are frequently experienced after a competition... with or without AAS.

If done correctly, priming will surprise you by very quick and dramatic results. In my opinion, priming should be done before every cycle - no matter the athlete's previous cycle experience. Because of the quicker results, cycle duration could also be cut back to make coming off and restoring proper HPTA function easier. The basic principle here is to create an environment where you body is very responsive to increased calories and your mind feels pent up and ready to move heavy weights.

MDur8
04-14-2009, 11:49 AM
During contest prep, do you like to seperate meals into pro/carb and pro/fat, or do you include all three in one meal?

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-15-2009, 03:22 AM
PM me if you dont want to answer on the thread.. sorry i repect you i dont want to talk to you in that manner LOL ,..thanks mate !:beerbang:

Priming is a prepatory method used to better prepare the body before starting an AAS cycle. The goal of priming is to make the system very sensitive to a flood of androgens, food and intense training. Most advanced bodybuilders (especially those that compete) know how responsive the body can be right after leaning up - such as the growth spurts that are frequently experienced after a competition... with or without AAS.

If done correctly, priming will surprise you by very quick and dramatic results. In my opinion, priming should be done before every cycle - no matter the athlete's previous cycle experience. Because of the quicker results, cycle duration could also be cut back to make coming off and restoring proper HPTA function easier. The basic principle here is to create an environment where you body is very responsive to increased calories and your mind feels pent up and ready to move heavy weights.

But the point I am making is that in MY opinion, dramatic gains are made after a leaning down phase or a prep diet only by basically filling out a flat physique. I am of the opinion that most of the guys (large majority) that talk about post show growth are referring only to supercompensation and filling out a physique that was depleted for weeks on end. That, to me, is not new muscle tissue.

How would you prime for a growth spurt? I am curious as to exactly what you would do to get that done.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-15-2009, 03:23 AM
During contest prep, do you like to seperate meals into pro/carb and pro/fat, or do you include all three in one meal?

I prefer to have all 3 in one meal BUT ... with strong emphasis on one or the other.

Skip

bgoo101
04-15-2009, 04:38 AM
I prefer to have all 3 in one meal BUT ... with strong emphasis on one or the other.

Skip

what about off -season gaining any diff bud ?

bgoo101
04-15-2009, 04:43 AM
But the point I am making is that in MY opinion, dramatic gains are made after a leaning down phase or a prep diet only by basically filling out a flat physique. I am of the opinion that most of the guys (large majority) that talk about post show growth are referring only to supercompensation and filling out a physique that was depleted for weeks on end. That, to me, is not new muscle tissue.

How would you prime for a growth spurt? I am curious as to exactly what you would do to get that done.

Skip

not my words brother below, but have had success using this method and im priming now... as to just starting a mass phase alone with out no prime gains were not as dramactic.. im talking 15lbs diff in gains..

Priming 101 - Preparing for an AAS Growth Spurt
by Warrior

Frequently people research how to better layout an AAS cycle, as well as proper post cycle therapy for making the transition back to natural. Unfortunately, many neglect another component for a successful AAS cycle - maximizing the time spent on - pre cycle therapy, better know as Priming.

What is priming?

Priming is a prepatory method used to better prepare the body before starting an AAS cycle. The goal of priming is to make the system very sensitive to a flood of androgens, food and intense training. Most advanced bodybuilders (especially those that compete) know how responsive the body can be right after leaning up - such as the growth spurts that are frequently experienced after a competition... with or without AAS.

If done correctly, priming will surprise you by very quick and dramatic results. In my opinion, priming should be done before every cycle - no matter the athlete's previous cycle experience. Because of the quicker results, cycle duration could also be cut back to make coming off and restoring proper HPTA function easier. The basic principle here is to create an environment where you body is very responsive to increased calories and your mind feels pent up and ready to move heavy weights.

Note by Marcus300: "Priming opens the growth window and creates a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow at a very fast rate, i can not express enough how important this process is, this will enhance any cycle and hugh gains can be produce and maintained by this simple process of priming (carb cycling), just to note when priming dont be hard on the body and try and force the environment a slow steady carb cycling so the body doesn't react in starvation mode is what is needed, 3-5 days low carb to 1 day high carbs is a general rule.

"When the priming is done your body is ready to direct everything into the muscle cells, because of the priming the cells on the muscles are very excitable and everything is directed into the muscle cells instead of fat cells, so if you incorporate the priming so it ends when a cycle starts and the intense training everything is directed into growth of muscle tissue and the growth spurt starts, in nature growth occurs in spurts and we are no different babies and teenagers all grow in spurts we cant carry on growing for a long period of time our bodies just dont work like that no matter what we put into them, so take advantage of the window and start a cycle when priming ends, because of the spurt only last for a few wks a short cycle fits nicely into it but longer cycle can be used it depends on the individual and how good he responds to AAS, i normally only grow for the first half of cycles so short cycling works great for me,

"The cycle needs to be designed around some form of cycle history and use what works best for you, looking over the cycle history will tell you which compounds work and which ones your body responds well to with little sides, design a cycle with this in mind."

How should you prime?

Priming involves the correct dietary and training techniques that get you to drop fat but no muscle. Basically, you diet down slow enough to simply lose some fat - no muscle should be lost. The training should not be so intense that you risk overtraining; in fact, a general maintenance routine would be best in most cases. The diet should allow your body to become sensitive to carbohydrates and other macronutrients. Generally, a cyclic ketogenic diet (CKD) works wonders - staying low carb for 3-4 days maximum, then carbing up. Again, the goal is to lean up but preserve current LBM.

Here is an example split that I have used for successful priming:

Day 1: Moderate Carb/Cardio
Day 2: Low Carb/Upperbody Supersets
Day 3: Low Carb/Lowerbody Supersets
Day 4: Low Carb/Cardio
Day 5: Low Carb/Full Body Workout (begin carb load after evening training)
Day 6: Carb Load/No training
Day 7: Moderate Carb/Power Training (Squat/Deads/Bench)
Repeat

How much cardio you do and how low you take your calories, is determined by your LBM and what you have learned about your metabolism and personal limitations.

The last 4-5 days before the cycle starts should be low carb. On the day you carb up - you should begin the cycle. Testosterone and most of it's popular deriatives will make this carb load very effective - and glycogen supercompensation should occur very quickly... especially if you use short esters or frontload longer esters - to get blood levels up quickly. After this point your body will remain very responsive to the cycle and you should begin training hard - drop sets, rest-pause... go intense! You should feel ready for it. As always - keep a training log to maximize the growth window.

Here are the results of a priming period I did (based on the 7-day CKD example):
Starting weight: 248.2 Target weight: 225.0

Week 1: Depleted to: 237.0 Loaded to: 244.8
Week 2: Depleted to: 235.5 Loaded to: 243.2
Week 3: Depleted to: 234.8 Loaded to: 242.1
Week 4: Depleted to: 233.4 Loaded to: 244.0 (salty carb load - wife made a big pot of soup! http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif )
Week 5: Depleted to: 231.8 Loaded to: 239.2
Week 6: Depleted to: 229.6 Loaded to: 241.0
Week 7: Depleted to: 229.2 Loaded to: 240.5
Week 8: Depleted to: 227.9 Loaded to: 240.0
Week 9: Depleted to: 226.6 Loaded to: 237.2
Week 10: a slow ride down to 225. Once I hit that, I consider the prime over and the window wide open. Physcially: strength has improved or sustained. Mentally: I am ready to move some heavy weights again - and ditch some of this damn cardio http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

NOTE: Carb Loading - if you haven't ran a CKD before, remember that you need to deplete glycogen during the week so you can get the proper response from the carb loads. Be carefull of total calorie intake - if you go low carb, but eat too much - this will effect the depletion phase. During the carb load, stick to protein and carb food sources... if you have a craving to curb that is also high in fat, the best time to indulge is within the first several hours of the carb load - studies show fat gain during this time is very low... the body is more interested in replenishing itself than it is in storing fat. As you advance through the carb load - high fat food are more likely to be stored.

How long should the priming period last?

Proper priming should last about 6-10 weeks precycle. If done correctly and long enough, your body will be very responsive - you should feel physically pent up and ready from the priming period - you should be mentally and physically prepared to move some heavy weights and put in 100% effort in the gym.

Are any ancillary drugs helpful for priming?

I have found Proviron and (drum roll) Bromocriptine to be helpful. Proviron helps to support natural testosterone levels during a calorie restricted diet; bromocriptine helps support proper metabolism and hormone levels to trick your body from trying to put a stopper on fat loss. An important word on Bromo: taper up and only take it in the mornings to avoid uncomfortable side effects. Exogenous insulin can help carb loads - I feel filled out quicker and stronger the day after...

By Marcus300: "Growth Hormone is of great benefit, it should be run at a low-dose during priming, and when the cycle starts and the intense training the dose of GH should be high for that individual, all these growth factors all work together in producing new muscle tissue gains, ive done my own personal studies with GH and priming and different ways of cycling and the GH is of great benefit in pushing new boundaries of growth while the growth spurt is open.

"GH is a wonderful and remarkable hormone, its basically a lipolytic it burns fat while supporting the immune system and prevents bone loss and supports the retention of lean body mass, it other words in time it makes you big and ripped and transforms your physic,when you start GH therapy it causes a shift in the metabolism where the body tries to burn alot more fatty acids than glucose, this benefit is sometimes mild but over time strips the fat away from the muscle, now for the other effect GH as on the body it increases amino acid uptake by muscles and can build lean muscle tissue, so what happens especially if your a bodybuilder and training and eating like one is you start to increase in lean body mass even more so if AAS are implement aswell so an increase in LBM which in turn changes the rate of body fat is burnt due to the LBM increasing, so in time major changes in the bodys compostion are notice even with no alteration on the diet, so just think if the right cycle and diet was done with GH the body changes put all this with the priming and designed cycle and you have everything you need to achieve your goals

"Now the dose what is need to transform the body is something ive discovered over the years, this is were i went wrong for years using too little of amount of GH, all i used to recieve was fat loss and slight condition, A former Mr O's camp at the time said i was doing it all wrong and they showed me and made me understand what i needed to do to change my body totally, nowadays ive found what works 100% for me, its a good solid prime and create the anabolic window for muscle then i start a short cycle weather heavy/light or modertae put this together with a very intense training program and diet and incorporate GH at a muscle building dose and the body changes very quickly,

"Sides with GH are bad if your a sufferer, carpel tunnel syndrome is murder but at least you know the GH you are taking is real, what i found is to run a maintenance dose of gh during the prime and slowly build the dose up and when you stop the prime and start the cycle and hit the food,training and AAS increase the GH its not as bad if you run it for a few wks before and steadily up the dose for the start of cycle."

Are any non-pharmaceutical ancillaries helpful for priming?

A multi vitamin/mineral is always good practice while on a macro-restrive diet... to help fill nutritional holes. Extra Vitamin C can also help deter flu symptoms and keep you from falling ill during an important training cycle... I will usually take somewhere between 4-8 grams of vitamin C per day to support a healthy immune system during any important training cycle. Getting sick can mess everything up...

Taking a healthy dose of the essential BCAA's helps to deter overtraining and keep you from losing muscle during dieting - or possibly remain progressive in your strength training. Studies show that it's harder to overtrain while taking in >10 grams of the essential BCAA's daily. I find 10 grams preworkout has a substantial effect on strength retention/gains and mental focus while on a CKD primer.

When you stay low-carb your body starts to produce less of the digestive enzymes responsible for carbohydrate metabolism - this can cause bad gas when carb loading. In particular, a low carb phase results in less production of the enzyme Amylase. To help this, you could take digestive enzymes to aid proper digestion.

The great Charles Poliquin has been quoted to suggort the idea of high-dose glutamine as a post workout sugar replacement for those needing to drop some bodyfat. The idea of mega dosing glutamine is debatable... but I have used it with success. Usually during the depletion week - my post workout shake is one banana and about 30-40 grams of glutamine.

Caffeine and other thermogenics are an absolute help when CKD priming. They keep you moving when after a few days on low carb and they help depress appetite. During the carb loads, they can also help keep you from feeling tired from all the incoming starches and sugars; however I usually use the carb load day as a detox from caffeine-containing sups and drinks.

Hope this helps explain the priming process... and I hope to see people taking advantage of this at MD... http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-15-2009, 03:47 PM
Ok. : )

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-15-2009, 03:48 PM
what about off -season gaining any diff bud ?

No.

Skip

bgoo101
04-15-2009, 05:20 PM
dont like the method hey skip ?

Myth
04-15-2009, 07:50 PM
Skip, can you discuss your new method of gauging refeeds by number of hours as opposed to your original method of going by number of meals?

Thanks bud

MDur8
04-16-2009, 01:04 AM
Skip,
Is there anything you do differently with cardio or strength training either on the day of the refeed or the day immediately following?

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-16-2009, 06:09 AM
dont like the method hey skip ?

: )

I don't. I won't knock it, I just don't ..... think there is anything to it. I don't believe you need to go through a complicated and 4 page plan to get ready to grow including being depleted or dieted down. No disrespect intended. Just a difference of opinion.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-16-2009, 06:14 AM
Skip, can you discuss your new method of gauging refeeds by number of hours as opposed to your original method of going by number of meals?

Thanks bud

I have started to use hours as a reference point for refeeds rather than meals because I can make smaller changes than when adjusting by meals.

If I say you have 3 meals to refeed, what was sometimes happening was guys would go longer and longer between meals to the point where 3 meals was taking up 9 hours or so. That can't happen. I have also gotten away from "meals" as the only way to do these refeed days and added to the meals, grazing, as well. So, by going with total hours to refeed, it covers grazing and it gives a more accurate way to make smaller changes. If I say take one meal away that could mean well over 2k calories so instead of increments of 2k calories, I could just say to take away an hour from the refeed, instead, taking away what would likely be much less than 2k calories.

It is also much easier to understand for those that aren't familiar with SkipLoading. When I get a newbie it takes a bit of time to convince them of what a meal is for a refeed and they aren't comfortable with all of the grey areas. With hours it is a bit more black and white and people respond well to that.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-16-2009, 06:16 AM
Skip,
Is there anything you do differently with cardio or strength training either on the day of the refeed or the day immediately following?

I prefer that you don't train on a refeed day. I also recommend against things like deads and squats the following day because some people have a lot of water retention and possibly some distention left over from the loading day and that is not a good combination when doing things that you need a lot of support on the spine.

Skip

MDur8
04-16-2009, 10:28 PM
I prefer that you don't train on a refeed day. I also recommend against things like deads and squats the following day because some people have a lot of water retention and possibly some distention left over from the loading day and that is not a good combination when doing things that you need a lot of support on the spine.

Skip

Makes sense..

Couple of more questions :D

1. Do you make any change to water intake during a load?

2. What do you think about glycerol, and do you use it with your clients?

Myth
04-16-2009, 11:48 PM
Skip, how much does your weight typically go up in the weeks following a contest (assuming you stay in decent shape, lol)?

almard
04-17-2009, 06:10 AM
skip,
What your training style looks like? how many sets pb?

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-17-2009, 05:49 PM
Makes sense..

Couple of more questions :D

1. Do you make any change to water intake during a load?

2. What do you think about glycerol, and do you use it with your clients?

No and no.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-17-2009, 05:51 PM
Skip, how much does your weight typically go up in the weeks following a contest (assuming you stay in decent shape, lol)?

Usually, I will compete at 198 and then I can maintain a 210 for quite a while in insane condition if I want to. Otherwise, I likely fill out to 220 and hold around there. At 220 I am in very good condition for about 2 months and then it starts to slide a little bit. I don't go much bigger than that, though, primarily for health reasons and for my lowerback. My lowerback goes to shit after I get over 220.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-17-2009, 05:53 PM
skip,
What your training style looks like? how many sets pb?

My personal training plan right now is that I am doing higher volume than usual as I am about 5 weeks out from a show. I tend to go higher volume as it gets closer so that I don't risk injury. When I am in the offseason, low volume works well for me but during a prep, I want to walk out of the gym feeling smoked.

Skip

smallboulders
04-17-2009, 07:28 PM
Skip,
Great thread! I just started using your prep methods for a contest in May and it has made a big difference in just 2 weeks.

Here is what I am thinking of doing. My contest is may 2nd. I stopped my creatine 1 month out for my body to adjust. Tomorrow is 2 weeks from d-day so I will start taking creatine (micronized mono hydrate) for the duration. The theory is it will pull available water into my muscles makin me look full but at the same time get rid of the sub-Q water. I dont seem to get much sub-Q from micronised creatine.

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-18-2009, 06:03 AM
Good luck with your show and I am glad to hear that things are going well using my loading protocol. Keep us posted!

Skip

the mighty stu
04-18-2009, 08:16 AM
Hey Skip,
Is there any chance of Creatine ruining the drying out process? I may be getting confused here, but I have my own show in 2 weeks, and plan on cutting water Fri afternoon. I've been taking 5g creatine a day for about a month now, and I will also be popping an OTC diuretic 2x friday. It's my 1st time doing a show, and some people say it's a fine strategy, others say that the water can come from you muscles. So many conflicting pieces of advice -lol.

S

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-18-2009, 02:13 PM
It depends on the type of creatine, your current condition, whether you are dry right now, etc.. I think cutting water friday afternoon is a mistake, though.

Skip

buster12
04-18-2009, 05:14 PM
Don't worry skip, I havn't forgot about you. I'm still deciding which show i'm gonna do. I honestly think it would be better for me to wait till I turn 19 though. But its guarunteed that I'm going with you to run my prep. I've never seen a trainer pay as close attention to his clients as you do.

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-19-2009, 05:44 AM
Thank you, Buster, I appreciate that. I work hard to make sure that my clients get all of the attention they deserve.

I would be happy to work with you and no rush. When you are ready, just let me know.

Skip

adrenaline rush
04-22-2009, 08:37 PM
I have started to use hours as a reference point for refeeds rather than meals because I can make smaller changes than when adjusting by meals.

If I say you have 3 meals to refeed, what was sometimes happening was guys would go longer and longer between meals to the point where 3 meals was taking up 9 hours or so. That can't happen. I have also gotten away from "meals" as the only way to do these refeed days and added to the meals, grazing, as well. So, by going with total hours to refeed, it covers grazing and it gives a more accurate way to make smaller changes. If I say take one meal away that could mean well over 2k calories so instead of increments of 2k calories, I could just say to take away an hour from the refeed, instead, taking away what would likely be much less than 2k calories.

It is also much easier to understand for those that aren't familiar with SkipLoading. When I get a newbie it takes a bit of time to convince them of what a meal is for a refeed and they aren't comfortable with all of the grey areas. With hours it is a bit more black and white and people respond well to that.

Skip

Skip, do you find clients that will overeat on their refeeds? or do most undereat?

Scoobysnacks
04-23-2009, 10:31 AM
Skip, I think everyone would find it beneficial to hear your thoughts on the markers/indicators you use to advise a skipload? I have my own thoughts, but was curious what you look for with the guys you prep.

Ss

hilly
04-23-2009, 11:09 AM
i would be very interested to know this also

Myth
04-23-2009, 07:11 PM
Skip, I think everyone would find it beneficial to hear your thoughts on the markers/indicators you use to advise a skipload? I have my own thoughts, but was curious what you look for with the guys you prep.

Ss

What Scooby said, as well as general refeed guidelines for the offseason, or whenever carbs are higher than pre-contest/cutting.

Thanks bro!

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-28-2009, 02:56 AM
Skip, do you find clients that will overeat on their refeeds? or do most undereat?

Rarely. The bottom line is whether they baseline and when so if they are getting too much food I just cut the meals or the hours.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-28-2009, 02:59 AM
Skip, I think everyone would find it beneficial to hear your thoughts on the markers/indicators you use to advise a skipload? I have my own thoughts, but was curious what you look for with the guys you prep.

Ss

There are so many different issues from client to client but the basics are the baseline as that is the most important factor. If you are eating all day long and yet you baseline by Wednesday a.m., we are likely going to go to starting the load the night before your load day to get even more food in. So, the baseline information is the most important.
Other things to consider are what style of training you are using, how frequently you train, total carb intake during the week, etc..
You know I won't give it all away in here. : )

Skip

Myth
04-28-2009, 02:52 PM
. If you are eating all day long and yet you baseline by Wednesday a.m., we are likely going to go to starting the load the night before your load day to get even more food in. So, the baseline information is the most important.


Skip, what if a client baselines in 2-3 days, yet is not losing OVERALL weight week to week? What do you do in this situation?

Thanks big guy!

johngorman
04-28-2009, 03:30 PM
hey skip, what show are you doing? (sorry, guess i live under a rock!)

Myth
04-28-2009, 05:31 PM
hey skip, what show are you doing? (sorry, guess i live under a rock!)

should probably check the website that he owns ;)

http://www.intensemuscle.com/33894-destination-charleston-south-carolina.html

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-29-2009, 03:08 AM
Skip, what if a client baselines in 2-3 days, yet is not losing OVERALL weight week to week? What do you do in this situation?

Thanks big guy!

This can usually be controlled, still, with the refeed but when it can't, the calories during the week are simply too high. You would adjust the calories/carbs during the week.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
04-29-2009, 03:10 AM
hey skip, what show are you doing? (sorry, guess i live under a rock!)

As much as I would like to think that EVERYONE knows what Skip is doing, you don't live under a rock for not knowing. : )

I will be at the Jr USAs in 3.5 weeks. The plan is to be a lightheavy, still, but you never know. : )

Skip

buster12
05-01-2009, 02:07 AM
good luck at jr. usa's skip. I'm sure your ready to eat my avatar! lol

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-01-2009, 04:39 AM
I am getting hungry but the truth is, I usually don't get too bad with hunger and bitching until about the 2 week mark. I have done this so many times that it is kind of a cakewalk for me, to be honest. Hell, I just moved to a 5 bedroom in the mountains last week at 4 weeks out just to add a little fun to the prep. lol Ok, I won't lie, the move was a little stressful but my point is that I do very well and don't really get too hungry until the very late stages of prep.

All that being said, yeah, I would eat the hell out of that plate of french toast if I could. : )

Skip

Scoobysnacks
05-01-2009, 08:43 AM
I am getting hungry but the truth is, I usually don't get too bad with hunger and bitching until about the 2 week mark. I have done this so many times that it is kind of a cakewalk for me, to be honest. Hell, I just moved to a 5 bedroom in the mountains last week at 4 weeks out just to add a little fun to the prep. lol Ok, I won't lie, the move was a little stressful but my point is that I do very well and don't really get too hungry until the very late stages of prep.

All that being said, yeah, I would eat the hell out of that plate of french toast if I could. : )

Skip

The new house sounds sweet.

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-02-2009, 04:41 AM
It is a dream, to be honest with you. We couldn't be happier. : )

Skip

almard
05-02-2009, 11:03 AM
Skip,
Thanks for your time to answer my questions, I will e-mail you soon after I finish my off season plan....I have another question..
What do you think of fruits as the only carb source...

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-03-2009, 09:18 PM
I have posted about this very thing on IntenseMuscle a while ago. I actually experimented with fruits as my only carb source somewhere around 05 and it was incredible how my energy was and how my training went for those 4 months. I didn't expect it to really work that well but I ended up with a higher volume in the gym because I seemed to have more energy than I had in a long time. Remember, most all fruits are relatively low GI and there are a lot of vitamins and fiber so please don't be one of those people that discards fruits as a carb source simply because some muscle rag told you to do it as a "golden rule" of bodybuilding or getting lean.

I also experimented with fruit only for high carb days during a prep in 03 and that worked well, too. I know, I know, fructose is only stored in the liver, blah, blah, blah. People should stop reading so much and actually fucking experiment and try things out on themselves. Get depleted and eat fruit and tell me it only fills liver glycogen.

If you get a chance, search for that thread on my site. I think you will like the read.

Skip

johngorman
05-04-2009, 04:05 PM
I have posted about this very thing on IntenseMuscle a while ago. I actually experimented with fruits as my only carb source somewhere around 05 and it was incredible how my energy was and how my training went for those 4 months. I didn't expect it to really work that well but I ended up with a higher volume in the gym because I seemed to have more energy than I had in a long time. Remember, most all fruits are relatively low GI and there are a lot of vitamins and fiber so please don't be one of those people that discards fruits as a carb source simply because some muscle rag told you to do it as a "golden rule" of bodybuilding or getting lean.

I also experimented with fruit only for high carb days during a prep in 03 and that worked well, too. I know, I know, fructose is only stored in the liver, blah, blah, blah. People should stop reading so much and actually fucking experiment and try things out on themselves. Get depleted and eat fruit and tell me it only fills liver glycogen.

If you get a chance, search for that thread on my site. I think you will like the read.

Skip
once the liver is full the rest should store in the muscle though correct? so eating enough fruit should be beneficial i would guess...........

quick question for ya skipper (lol), do you have your clients count fibrous veggies as part of the carbs when prepping? like eating a salad between meals to kill hunger pains.......thanks!

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-05-2009, 04:34 AM
I never count vegetables as carbs, no. They can eat them in whatever amounts they want to.

Skip

bigmikecox
05-09-2009, 05:32 PM
not my words brother below, but have had success using this method and im priming now... as to just starting a mass phase alone with out no prime gains were not as dramactic.. im talking 15lbs diff in gains..

Priming 101 - Preparing for an AAS Growth Spurt
by Warrior

Frequently people research how to better layout an AAS cycle, as well as proper post cycle therapy for making the transition back to natural. Unfortunately, many neglect another component for a successful AAS cycle - maximizing the time spent on - pre cycle therapy, better know as Priming.

What is priming?

Priming is a prepatory method used to better prepare the body before starting an AAS cycle. The goal of priming is to make the system very sensitive to a flood of androgens, food and intense training. Most advanced bodybuilders (especially those that compete) know how responsive the body can be right after leaning up - such as the growth spurts that are frequently experienced after a competition... with or without AAS.

If done correctly, priming will surprise you by very quick and dramatic results. In my opinion, priming should be done before every cycle - no matter the athlete's previous cycle experience. Because of the quicker results, cycle duration could also be cut back to make coming off and restoring proper HPTA function easier. The basic principle here is to create an environment where you body is very responsive to increased calories and your mind feels pent up and ready to move heavy weights.

Note by Marcus300: "Priming opens the growth window and creates a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow at a very fast rate, i can not express enough how important this process is, this will enhance any cycle and hugh gains can be produce and maintained by this simple process of priming (carb cycling), just to note when priming dont be hard on the body and try and force the environment a slow steady carb cycling so the body doesn't react in starvation mode is what is needed, 3-5 days low carb to 1 day high carbs is a general rule.

"When the priming is done your body is ready to direct everything into the muscle cells, because of the priming the cells on the muscles are very excitable and everything is directed into the muscle cells instead of fat cells, so if you incorporate the priming so it ends when a cycle starts and the intense training everything is directed into growth of muscle tissue and the growth spurt starts, in nature growth occurs in spurts and we are no different babies and teenagers all grow in spurts we cant carry on growing for a long period of time our bodies just dont work like that no matter what we put into them, so take advantage of the window and start a cycle when priming ends, because of the spurt only last for a few wks a short cycle fits nicely into it but longer cycle can be used it depends on the individual and how good he responds to AAS, i normally only grow for the first half of cycles so short cycling works great for me,

"The cycle needs to be designed around some form of cycle history and use what works best for you, looking over the cycle history will tell you which compounds work and which ones your body responds well to with little sides, design a cycle with this in mind."

How should you prime?

Priming involves the correct dietary and training techniques that get you to drop fat but no muscle. Basically, you diet down slow enough to simply lose some fat - no muscle should be lost. The training should not be so intense that you risk overtraining; in fact, a general maintenance routine would be best in most cases. The diet should allow your body to become sensitive to carbohydrates and other macronutrients. Generally, a cyclic ketogenic diet (CKD) works wonders - staying low carb for 3-4 days maximum, then carbing up. Again, the goal is to lean up but preserve current LBM.

Here is an example split that I have used for successful priming:

Day 1: Moderate Carb/Cardio
Day 2: Low Carb/Upperbody Supersets
Day 3: Low Carb/Lowerbody Supersets
Day 4: Low Carb/Cardio
Day 5: Low Carb/Full Body Workout (begin carb load after evening training)
Day 6: Carb Load/No training
Day 7: Moderate Carb/Power Training (Squat/Deads/Bench)
Repeat

How much cardio you do and how low you take your calories, is determined by your LBM and what you have learned about your metabolism and personal limitations.

The last 4-5 days before the cycle starts should be low carb. On the day you carb up - you should begin the cycle. Testosterone and most of it's popular deriatives will make this carb load very effective - and glycogen supercompensation should occur very quickly... especially if you use short esters or frontload longer esters - to get blood levels up quickly. After this point your body will remain very responsive to the cycle and you should begin training hard - drop sets, rest-pause... go intense! You should feel ready for it. As always - keep a training log to maximize the growth window.

Here are the results of a priming period I did (based on the 7-day CKD example):
Starting weight: 248.2 Target weight: 225.0

Week 1: Depleted to: 237.0 Loaded to: 244.8
Week 2: Depleted to: 235.5 Loaded to: 243.2
Week 3: Depleted to: 234.8 Loaded to: 242.1
Week 4: Depleted to: 233.4 Loaded to: 244.0 (salty carb load - wife made a big pot of soup! http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif )
Week 5: Depleted to: 231.8 Loaded to: 239.2
Week 6: Depleted to: 229.6 Loaded to: 241.0
Week 7: Depleted to: 229.2 Loaded to: 240.5
Week 8: Depleted to: 227.9 Loaded to: 240.0
Week 9: Depleted to: 226.6 Loaded to: 237.2
Week 10: a slow ride down to 225. Once I hit that, I consider the prime over and the window wide open. Physcially: strength has improved or sustained. Mentally: I am ready to move some heavy weights again - and ditch some of this damn cardio http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

NOTE: Carb Loading - if you haven't ran a CKD before, remember that you need to deplete glycogen during the week so you can get the proper response from the carb loads. Be carefull of total calorie intake - if you go low carb, but eat too much - this will effect the depletion phase. During the carb load, stick to protein and carb food sources... if you have a craving to curb that is also high in fat, the best time to indulge is within the first several hours of the carb load - studies show fat gain during this time is very low... the body is more interested in replenishing itself than it is in storing fat. As you advance through the carb load - high fat food are more likely to be stored.

How long should the priming period last?

Proper priming should last about 6-10 weeks precycle. If done correctly and long enough, your body will be very responsive - you should feel physically pent up and ready from the priming period - you should be mentally and physically prepared to move some heavy weights and put in 100% effort in the gym.

Are any ancillary drugs helpful for priming?

I have found Proviron and (drum roll) Bromocriptine to be helpful. Proviron helps to support natural testosterone levels during a calorie restricted diet; bromocriptine helps support proper metabolism and hormone levels to trick your body from trying to put a stopper on fat loss. An important word on Bromo: taper up and only take it in the mornings to avoid uncomfortable side effects. Exogenous insulin can help carb loads - I feel filled out quicker and stronger the day after...

By Marcus300: "Growth Hormone is of great benefit, it should be run at a low-dose during priming, and when the cycle starts and the intense training the dose of GH should be high for that individual, all these growth factors all work together in producing new muscle tissue gains, ive done my own personal studies with GH and priming and different ways of cycling and the GH is of great benefit in pushing new boundaries of growth while the growth spurt is open.

"GH is a wonderful and remarkable hormone, its basically a lipolytic it burns fat while supporting the immune system and prevents bone loss and supports the retention of lean body mass, it other words in time it makes you big and ripped and transforms your physic,when you start GH therapy it causes a shift in the metabolism where the body tries to burn alot more fatty acids than glucose, this benefit is sometimes mild but over time strips the fat away from the muscle, now for the other effect GH as on the body it increases amino acid uptake by muscles and can build lean muscle tissue, so what happens especially if your a bodybuilder and training and eating like one is you start to increase in lean body mass even more so if AAS are implement aswell so an increase in LBM which in turn changes the rate of body fat is burnt due to the LBM increasing, so in time major changes in the bodys compostion are notice even with no alteration on the diet, so just think if the right cycle and diet was done with GH the body changes put all this with the priming and designed cycle and you have everything you need to achieve your goals

"Now the dose what is need to transform the body is something ive discovered over the years, this is were i went wrong for years using too little of amount of GH, all i used to recieve was fat loss and slight condition, A former Mr O's camp at the time said i was doing it all wrong and they showed me and made me understand what i needed to do to change my body totally, nowadays ive found what works 100% for me, its a good solid prime and create the anabolic window for muscle then i start a short cycle weather heavy/light or modertae put this together with a very intense training program and diet and incorporate GH at a muscle building dose and the body changes very quickly,

"Sides with GH are bad if your a sufferer, carpel tunnel syndrome is murder but at least you know the GH you are taking is real, what i found is to run a maintenance dose of gh during the prime and slowly build the dose up and when you stop the prime and start the cycle and hit the food,training and AAS increase the GH its not as bad if you run it for a few wks before and steadily up the dose for the start of cycle."

Are any non-pharmaceutical ancillaries helpful for priming?

A multi vitamin/mineral is always good practice while on a macro-restrive diet... to help fill nutritional holes. Extra Vitamin C can also help deter flu symptoms and keep you from falling ill during an important training cycle... I will usually take somewhere between 4-8 grams of vitamin C per day to support a healthy immune system during any important training cycle. Getting sick can mess everything up...

Taking a healthy dose of the essential BCAA's helps to deter overtraining and keep you from losing muscle during dieting - or possibly remain progressive in your strength training. Studies show that it's harder to overtrain while taking in >10 grams of the essential BCAA's daily. I find 10 grams preworkout has a substantial effect on strength retention/gains and mental focus while on a CKD primer.

When you stay low-carb your body starts to produce less of the digestive enzymes responsible for carbohydrate metabolism - this can cause bad gas when carb loading. In particular, a low carb phase results in less production of the enzyme Amylase. To help this, you could take digestive enzymes to aid proper digestion.

The great Charles Poliquin has been quoted to suggort the idea of high-dose glutamine as a post workout sugar replacement for those needing to drop some bodyfat. The idea of mega dosing glutamine is debatable... but I have used it with success. Usually during the depletion week - my post workout shake is one banana and about 30-40 grams of glutamine.

Caffeine and other thermogenics are an absolute help when CKD priming. They keep you moving when after a few days on low carb and they help depress appetite. During the carb loads, they can also help keep you from feeling tired from all the incoming starches and sugars; however I usually use the carb load day as a detox from caffeine-containing sups and drinks.

Hope this helps explain the priming process... and I hope to see people taking advantage of this at MD... http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


:confused: What happened to just eating, taking gear and growing. Not going to hi jack this thread, but IMO, keep it simple.

Skip, do you find a lot of people get nervous and stressed before a show when they refeed and start to smooth out?

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-10-2009, 04:27 AM
If they start it too close to a show, yes. It can be tough for a few weeks until they see how everything works and see that it is very predictable. When I start working with someone I make sure that they understand that my ideology is not considered orthodox and that if they don't trust me, they ought not to be working with me.

Skip

davidyes
05-10-2009, 11:12 AM
Skip,
Though your ideology may be unorthodox, do you at least explain to your clients your reasonings behind why your methodology works if they choose to work with you?

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-11-2009, 02:15 AM
I explain everything. I am not one of those guys that pretends he has secrets that he can't let his clients know. I always tell my clients that I TEACH them how nutrition works and interacts with their body so that they don't need me to hold their hand in the future - they can control their nutrition themselves.

Skip

buster12
05-12-2009, 01:06 PM
Best prep coach!^ Skip, is fried rice skipload approved? I cant get enough of that stuff. lol

Kmrmax1656
05-12-2009, 02:58 PM
Skip
i wanted to let you know that i think your site looks great and as you continue to grow your team a ton of people are taking notice. its the fact that you do answer questions in open forums and are open to work with anyone willing to give 100% that really shows you love what you do. Im only speaking for myself obviously but this is a big quality i love to see in a coach. as you hear so much...next prep that presents itself, ill know who to come to LOL

hope all is well with you and your family and we all know your gunna kill at the show.
KEEP US POSTED!

Kenny

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-13-2009, 04:32 AM
Thank you very much, Kenny. Hearing things like that are flattering and about the time that I think that people don't understand how much attention I give to my clients, someone speaks up. Thanks, bro.

I don't know about killin' it at the show but I will be in my best condition and the chips will fall where they may. Win, lose or draw by business is conditioning so I gotta bring that. : )

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-13-2009, 04:32 AM
Best prep coach!^ Skip, is fried rice skipload approved? I cant get enough of that stuff. lol

That and Red Robin Monster burgers. lol

Skip

Kmrmax1656
05-13-2009, 03:21 PM
New blog is AWESOME! dont you love the guys after the show sayin "no bro,im just holding water this isnt fat"
i complete agree in takin time away from the gym and dieting at least for a few weeks, giving your body a break.
one question is whenever you do decided to get back to dieting do your just kinda of reverse diet until calories reach a suitable level?
what bf do you usually like to stay at offseason? your clients as well?

Thanks
Kenny

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-14-2009, 03:52 AM
I prefer to stay about 220 or less as this is when I feel the best. I feel healthier, my back feels much better and I can move just as much weight at 220 as I can at a fat 240.

I eat clean all the time, no matter offseason or not. I have been doing this 25 years and I find it very easy to do for some weird reason. : )

Skip

Koubs
05-14-2009, 09:29 PM
That and Red Robin Monster burgers. lol

Skip

Whoa whoa... Red Robin Monster burgers?? If you're for real, I'm having one this weekend, that sounds fantastic... So you better correct yourself quickly if you were joking :D

Myth
05-14-2009, 10:56 PM
I assume the "lol" meant he was kidding. :)

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-15-2009, 04:45 AM
Whoa whoa... Red Robin Monster burgers?? If you're for real, I'm having one this weekend, that sounds fantastic... So you better correct yourself quickly if you were joking :D

I was joking but ..... I wish I wasn't. : )

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
05-17-2009, 02:12 AM
I will not be answering any questions in here for a couple weeks as I am heading to Charleston early next week for the Jr USAs and then I will be on vacation the following week or maybe even two.

I will return after that to answer questions and catch up on everything.

Skip

buster12
05-17-2009, 02:13 AM
best of luck skip!

DocGabri
05-17-2009, 08:33 AM
Good luck Skip!!!

YukonCrazy
05-30-2009, 01:25 PM
great thread.

th_vai
05-30-2009, 03:00 PM
Skip does every single athlete of urs gets the high carb refeed day? or if they're not very lean they get a single meal? thanks :)

MDur8
05-30-2009, 03:15 PM
Skip I saw your jr usa pics and your hamstrings were SICK! Helluva good job!

Quick question tho, do you use BCAA's in the offseason and during prep? If so, how?

Thanks

futurepro
05-30-2009, 06:41 PM
MR. HILL.... WON MY SECOND SHOW 2 WEEKS AGO WITH THE HELP OF RONNIE ROWLAND-CREATOR-OF-SLINGSHOT-TRAINING. WHEN IT CAME TIME FOR THE LAST WEEK PREP HE FORWARDED ME YOUR SKIP LOADING ARTICLE SUGGESTING I GIVE YOUR UNIQUE METHOD A TRY AS HE THINKS IT MAKES PERFECTLY GOOD SENSE....


SKIP-LOADING COMBINED WITH SLINGSHOT-TRAINING IS DA-SHIT PEOPLE AS IT REALLY WORKED FOR ME. NATIONALS.. HERE I COME BABY..:beerbang:

buster12
05-31-2009, 12:24 AM
good job at jr. usa's skip. can't wait to work together!

Ronnie Rowland
06-01-2009, 10:19 PM
I explain everything. I am not one of those guys that pretends he has secrets that he can't let his clients know. I always tell my clients that I TEACH them how nutrition works and interacts with their body so that they don't need me to hold their hand in the future - they can control their nutrition themselves.

Skip

Spoken like a true professional..;)

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-02-2009, 09:01 PM
Skip does every single athlete of urs gets the high carb refeed day? or if they're not very lean they get a single meal? thanks :)

Yes, but how many hours or how many refeed meals they get is individual and based on a myriad of factors. I don't have one client that doesn't have refeed meals, though, every week.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-02-2009, 09:04 PM
Skip I saw your jr usa pics and your hamstrings were SICK! Helluva good job!

Quick question tho, do you use BCAA's in the offseason and during prep? If so, how?

Thanks

Thank you very much. I was flat from not using my SkipLoading method due to having to make the weight class. If you are interested, I detail what I did and didn't do for the last week in my blog: www.teamskip.net/blog

I am a big believer in BCAAs, yes. I didn't used to be but since revisiting them a couple years ago I am a huge believer in them now. I use TrueProtein BCAA powder in my workout water and postworkout, too. Doesn't matter if I am offseason or precontest. I am also going to play with BCAAs for this offseason in a different capacity and I will let you guys know how it goes after I get it going for a couple months. I am going to stay sick lean this year and my BCAA plan is going to be an integral part of staying very lean and growing at the same time.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-02-2009, 09:05 PM
MR. HILL.... WON MY SECOND SHOW 2 WEEKS AGO WITH THE HELP OF RONNIE ROWLAND-CREATOR-OF-SLINGSHOT-TRAINING. WHEN IT CAME TIME FOR THE LAST WEEK PREP HE FORWARDED ME YOUR SKIP LOADING ARTICLE SUGGESTING I GIVE YOUR UNIQUE METHOD A TRY AS HE THINKS IT MAKES PERFECTLY GOOD SENSE....


SKIP-LOADING COMBINED WITH SLINGSHOT-TRAINING IS DA-SHIT PEOPLE AS IT REALLY WORKED FOR ME. NATIONALS.. HERE I COME BABY..:beerbang:

That is great to hear. I always appreciate it when other trainers give me the credit for my loading protocol instead of just pretending it is theirs. Good Luck to you at Nationals.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-02-2009, 09:06 PM
If any of you are interested in what went down the last week of my prep and why things didn't come off like they usually do (or always have), check out my blog: www.teamskip.net/blog

Skip

johngorman
06-02-2009, 09:45 PM
If any of you are interested in what went down the last week of my prep and why things didn't come off like they usually do (or always have), check out my blog: www.teamskip.net/blog (http://www.teamskip.net/blog)

Skip
great entry man. it's nice to read these and learn about what you did, what you went through, and more importantly what you learned personally.

:beerbang:

MDur8
06-11-2009, 03:07 PM
Skip can you elaborate more on the refeed strategy your going to be using this offseason?

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-12-2009, 03:20 AM
Skip can you elaborate more on the refeed strategy your going to be using this offseason?

No. :)

Seriously, I won't elaborate on it because I want to see how it goes and get some experience and tweaking done before I can see if it is going to be as effective as I want it to be for the offseason. In theory, it should work well but we all know that things on paper don't always pan out when applied. I do think this one will, though.

It won't be some huge, new thing, though. It will just be a variation of what I am doing now so that there might be a couple main components that make offseason SkipLoading and contest prep SkipLoading slightly different.

Stay tuned.

Skip

-BLP-
06-12-2009, 07:02 AM
k bro im 8 days out ripped like insane , but my brain doesnt function well like a super hero looking but dumb as a 7 year old kid... i try 5thp , tyrosine, whetevr it seem at 4%BF i cant intellectually perform no matters what,, i fell im dying or close to, im so lean my face look like a bone zombie n my mom cry when she me lol ..

MDur8
06-12-2009, 10:07 AM
No. :)

Seriously, I won't elaborate on it because I want to see how it goes and get some experience and tweaking done before I can see if it is going to be as effective as I want it to be for the offseason. In theory, it should work well but we all know that things on paper don't always pan out when applied. I do think this one will, though.

It won't be some huge, new thing, though. It will just be a variation of what I am doing now so that there might be a couple main components that make offseason SkipLoading and contest prep SkipLoading slightly different.

Stay tuned.

Skip

Haha no worries Skip.

maxxmuscle
06-12-2009, 11:57 AM
Ha Ha ! I know the feeling you are talking about :) Hang in there man.....

My face looked terrible ! Its nice and fat again now lol !


k bro im 8 days out ripped like insane , but my brain doesnt function well like a super hero looking but dumb as a 7 year old kid... i try 5thp , tyrosine, whetevr it seem at 4%BF i cant intellectually perform no matters what,, i fell im dying or close to, im so lean my face look like a bone zombie n my mom cry when she me lol ..

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-13-2009, 03:04 AM
k bro im 8 days out ripped like insane , but my brain doesnt function well like a super hero looking but dumb as a 7 year old kid... i try 5thp , tyrosine, whetevr it seem at 4%BF i cant intellectually perform no matters what,, i fell im dying or close to, im so lean my face look like a bone zombie n my mom cry when she me lol ..

Shit, bro, I don't know what the fuck you just said.

LOL

Skip

-BLP-
06-13-2009, 03:46 AM
im french n in low carb state im doom lol

im struggling a lot in last week b 4 show

do you think it possible to fell good with ripped gluteus ?

i fell like shit

thks

MDur8
06-15-2009, 11:58 AM
Skip do any of your clients have headaches the morning after a refeed? If so, what causes this?

-BLP-
06-16-2009, 03:41 AM
skip can i get massage in the last week b4 a show or they create water retention?

YukonCrazy
06-16-2009, 03:27 PM
skip can i get massage in the last week b4 a show or they create water retention?

IMO, yes, but make sure you get the right massage technique.

Do not "lengthen" the muscles during the massage, I would get a deep tissue-cross thread massage instead.

I did before my show and I felt great!

Massages stimulate bloodflow to the muscle and helps with muscle separation as well. :)

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-17-2009, 02:46 AM
im french n in low carb state im doom lol

im struggling a lot in last week b 4 show

do you think it possible to fell good with ripped gluteus ?

i fell like shit

thks

When your bodyfat levels are truly very low, you will feel like death. I know some out there will think they can relate but I am not talking about average conditioning or leanness, I am talking about that leanness that only a small percentage of people get to.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-17-2009, 02:48 AM
Skip do any of your clients have headaches the morning after a refeed? If so, what causes this?

I don't have clients that report this, no. I am sure it might happen infrequently but not enough for me to say that there has been any pattern, no.

Have you? If you have, it could be from not getting enough fluid the day of the refeed and you are waking up "dry brained". lol Seriously, I know I have gone lower on the fluid for refeeds and I wake up the next day sometimes feeling hungover and I don't drink anymore.

Is this what you are feeling?

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-17-2009, 02:51 AM
skip can i get massage in the last week b4 a show or they create water retention?

One of my main rules I have is that everything you do the last week should be things that your body expects and anticipates. It is not wise to do something that is new to your body the last week. If you have been getting weekly massages, no problem. If not, keep them out the last week.

If you have been getting them weekly and want to get one the week of the show, I would say to play it safe and get it no later than Wednesday. If it were me I would likely get it no later than Tuesday, personally.

Skip

-BLP-
06-17-2009, 05:40 AM
k i had one weekly will do wenesday , such a great stress reliever for me
thk u

MDur8
06-17-2009, 09:12 AM
I don't have clients that report this, no. I am sure it might happen infrequently but not enough for me to say that there has been any pattern, no.

Have you? If you have, it could be from not getting enough fluid the day of the refeed and you are waking up "dry brained". lol Seriously, I know I have gone lower on the fluid for refeeds and I wake up the next day sometimes feeling hungover and I don't drink anymore.

Is this what you are feeling?

Skip

This is exactly what Im feeling! I usually dont drink that much on refeeds to avoid spilling over too soon but ill definately add more this sunday cause i felt like crap on monday...thanks for the insight Skip :beerbang:

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-18-2009, 03:35 PM
I figured. You will get much fuller with the fluid in there on the refeed, too, and you won't hold water unless you have too many carbs and in that case, you will simply hold the water SOONER so my philosophy has always been: Get it done and over with. lol

Skip

MDur8
06-18-2009, 03:56 PM
Cool thanks skip ill definately add in more water this sunday.

th_vai
06-18-2009, 09:37 PM
Skip 2 Questions

1st If I did 12hrs refeed and im still losing weight then I can stick to that instead of single cheat meal right?

2nd My friend is doing a diet with the following macros 200gr pro , 40gr fat, 100 gr carbs, his training is high volume and does hiit cardio 60min stomach empty hes asking if he could get a refeed day or high carb day even hes not doing keto

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-19-2009, 04:23 PM
Absolutely and Absolutely. :)

Skip

MDur8
06-22-2009, 02:33 PM
Skip I drank a lot more water for yesterday's load and I feel so much better today than last monday...thanks again!

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-23-2009, 04:46 AM
You're welcome.

Skip

johngorman
06-26-2009, 12:44 PM
skip, i noticed you dont like dairy during skiploads. is that because it possibly slows digestion of the carbs, or just screws up some loads in general?

for my loads i was going to use skim milk with my cereal, but just use a protein shake instead. and i was going to use some fat free cream cheese on the bagels but thought better of it.

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-26-2009, 11:31 PM
I am not a big dairy fan, at all, but more specifically I am not a fan of milk. Some cheese is fine and some fat free cream cheese is fine but drinking milk and using ice cream is not a great idea because it slows digestion, yes.

Skip

maxxmuscle
07-02-2009, 03:09 AM
Skip....Would you say i was in that small percentage? The last week or so i felt terrible ! :(


When your bodyfat levels are truly very low, you will feel like death. I know some out there will think they can relate but I am not talking about average conditioning or leanness, I am talking about that leanness that only a small percentage of people get to.

Skip

maxxmuscle
07-02-2009, 03:10 AM
Skip knows his sheet :)


Skip I drank a lot more water for yesterday's load and I feel so much better today than last monday...thanks again!

Ken "Skip" Hill
07-02-2009, 05:29 AM
Skip....Would you say i was in that small percentage? The last week or so i felt terrible ! :(

Yes, you were in that group. More so for the last show than the first, though.

Skip

maxxmuscle
07-02-2009, 05:32 AM
Im pleased you said that :) ! I couldnt imagine feeling much worse...was dead on my feet the last week or so !

kell
07-02-2009, 07:24 PM
wht do u guys recommend eating the night before, the morning of the contest and before stepping on stage to make u look full? thanks

Ken "Skip" Hill
07-03-2009, 06:01 AM
I lay out a lot of this in the my article on Skiploading. If you want details I would check that out.

Skip

MattyH7688
07-05-2009, 07:31 PM
I am. In fact, we just started yesterday, actually. I will have him the entire prep this time for Collegiates. Last time, I had to save him from a trainwreck from his pompous trainer that I won't mention by name. : )

Skip
Team Hoy.... ohhh nevermind :D

I actually heard a funny story that kevin would be eating pizza or something in the hotel room next to him and when his "trainer" would knock on the door he had to hide the food you were wanting him to eat haha. I am from the same town as Kevin and we even go to the same college. He is truly a monster and has unlimited potential. How is he looking for collegiates? I am doing collegiates as a middleweight(I hope I can make weight).

Which kinda brings me to my question.. What do you do with your clients and the final week who are extremely borderline on the weight class? Do you do the traditional skipload or wait to carb up? My weighins are thursday and I dont have prejudging until saturday morning so I may have plenty of time to fill out if I suck down to middles. I did the basic traditional carb deplete/load last contest with adding in fats friday and a "crap meal" morning of the show and was pleased with how it turned out.

MattyH7688
07-06-2009, 01:00 AM
actually I decided I think it would be best for me to follow a shitload and use what you posted before to help me
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/bodybuilding-contest-preparation/39323-little-about-shitloading.html

I know this varies from person to person but just a quick question on shitload.. How long before prejudging do you start the shitload and I planned on cutting water 18 hours before prejudging, like last time should I start the shitload a couple hours after cutting water or immedietly after cutting water?

Ken "Skip" Hill
07-08-2009, 04:06 AM
Team Hoy.... ohhh nevermind :D

I actually heard a funny story that kevin would be eating pizza or something in the hotel room next to him and when his "trainer" would knock on the door he had to hide the food you were wanting him to eat haha. I am from the same town as Kevin and we even go to the same college. He is truly a monster and has unlimited potential. How is he looking for collegiates? I am doing collegiates as a middleweight(I hope I can make weight).

Which kinda brings me to my question.. What do you do with your clients and the final week who are extremely borderline on the weight class? Do you do the traditional skipload or wait to carb up? My weighins are thursday and I dont have prejudging until saturday morning so I may have plenty of time to fill out if I suck down to middles. I did the basic traditional carb deplete/load last contest with adding in fats friday and a "crap meal" morning of the show and was pleased with how it turned out.

LOL
Yeah, you have the inside track. I wish I was there to watch him try to hide from his "prep guy".

It does get tricky when you are fighting for a weight class BUT .... after so many skiploads every week for your prep, you still have a very good idea of where your weight will be come weigh ins. I admit that there are times that the load can't be done in it's usual fashion and has to be done after weigh ins at some point. I don't like to do that because I feel it is sacrificing condition to make a weight class. I did this very thing at the Jr USAs for myself and it backfired on me. It wasn't a trainwreck but I wasn't at my best for the first time, ever.

It is good to make a weight class when you can but I am a HUGE believer in taking your condition into whatever class you have to. You are better off 4 pounds into the next class in top condition than you are just making the cut off and not being at your best.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
07-08-2009, 04:08 AM
actually I decided I think it would be best for me to follow a shitload and use what you posted before to help me
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/bodybuilding-contest-preparation/39323-little-about-shitloading.html

I know this varies from person to person but just a quick question on shitload.. How long before prejudging do you start the shitload and I planned on cutting water 18 hours before prejudging, like last time should I start the shitload a couple hours after cutting water or immedietly after cutting water?

There are just so many variables to be considered that I can't know what to tell you about the timing of the water. I would need a lot of information from you to narrow it down to specifics like that.

Not bailing on you but just being honest. I don't want to give you a vague, broad answer as that won't help you, either.

Skip

MattyH7688
07-08-2009, 09:30 AM
LOL
Yeah, you have the inside track. I wish I was there to watch him try to hide from his "prep guy".

It does get tricky when you are fighting for a weight class BUT .... after so many skiploads every week for your prep, you still have a very good idea of where your weight will be come weigh ins. I admit that there are times that the load can't be done in it's usual fashion and has to be done after weigh ins at some point. I don't like to do that because I feel it is sacrificing condition to make a weight class. I did this very thing at the Jr USAs for myself and it backfired on me. It wasn't a trainwreck but I wasn't at my best for the first time, ever.

It is good to make a weight class when you can but I am a HUGE believer in taking your condition into whatever class you have to. You are better off 4 pounds into the next class in top condition than you are just making the cut off and not being at your best.

Skip


There are just so many variables to be considered that I can't know what to tell you about the timing of the water. I would need a lot of information from you to narrow it down to specifics like that.

Not bailing on you but just being honest. I don't want to give you a vague, broad answer as that won't help you, either.

Skip
thanks for the help skip. I completely understand it being individual, so I cant expect you know what to telll me. I am probably going to keep my water cutting and diuretics the same I did last show and just go from there I guess... I probably should have hired you at the beginning of my prep 4 months ago so I wouldnt be in this situation now :p

I agree with the weight class and its just tough because I know I would be so much more competitive in the middles compared to the LHW, but worse comes to worse if I do come in as a LHW I will be a lot more conditioned than my last show since I have dieted even harder andupped my cardio to make weight and already feel like i am muchhh improved from just 2 weeks ago

Ken "Skip" Hill
07-09-2009, 05:50 AM
Thing is, though, you just don't know. I thought I needed to be in the LHs this year because it was a national level show but I would have faired MUCH better had I gone into the heavies at this particular show. It just depends on who shows up, really. You want to be in your best condition no matter the class.

Skip

th_vai
07-26-2009, 07:41 PM
Skip I heard your not a fan of cardio, what's the average cardio you send to the people u train, and what do u prefer low intensity vs hiit cardio.

Do you think 1500 cals/day is too much of an overkill for a body 180lb 12-13% bodyfat?

Shawn Bellon
07-26-2009, 07:43 PM
Good question. I'd like to know that as well.

Ken "Skip" Hill
07-27-2009, 06:50 AM
I like cardio but I just don't like to rely on it, that's all. I don't believe in doing anymore cardio than is necessary so I tend to keep the cardio down whenever possible and take it out whenever possible.

I am not at all a HIT or HIIT fan for cardio, no.

1500 cals a day being burned from cardio? I, myself, would try to work it so that not that much cardio was needed.

Skip

th_vai
07-27-2009, 10:37 AM
I meant 1500 kcal consumed per day for a cutting diet

Ken "Skip" Hill
07-28-2009, 11:06 PM
There just sooo many variables that I can't know given the limited info that I have from you. Sorry.

Skip

davidyes
07-30-2009, 09:58 PM
Skip,
Did you prep Luis Santa for the USAs?

Ken "Skip" Hill
07-30-2009, 10:33 PM
Skip,
Did you prep Luis Santa for the USAs?

I did not. He does his own prep. I know that Cam and Tracy have a lot of pictures of him in their t shirts but Cam doesn't prep him, either. They are just friends.

I did notice that Luis was pretty flat at USAs vs. his condition at the Jr show. However, I don't know what he did or didn't do differently between shows.

I have been asked this a couple times today, though. Any reason why you asked?

Skip

davidyes
07-31-2009, 10:46 AM
Any reason why you asked?

On your website, Luis Santa seems to be one of the athletes that is used to market your contest prep business. On that note, were you prepping any athletes for the USAs?

Ken "Skip" Hill
08-01-2009, 04:31 AM
Any reason why you asked?

On your website, Luis Santa seems to be one of the athletes that is used to market your contest prep business. On that note, were you prepping any athletes for the USAs?

lol
Not necessarily.
That video was shot long before Luis did any shows this year. That video was done to give Luis exposure earlier in the year with his permission, of course.

Did you contact Cam and Tracy to ask them if they were prepping Luis? I only ask because every chance they get they have Luis in a Scratchy Package t-shirt or on their facebook pages giving the impression that Luis is being prepped by them. Be sure and ask them the same question considering they have a new picture up almost everyday from what I hear.

Skip

Myth
08-05-2009, 10:06 PM
Hey Skip, have you revealed any details regarding your offseason refeed strategy yet?

Ken "Skip" Hill
08-06-2009, 02:31 AM
Not yet because it is so early that I am still playing around with some things trying to get into something that I like.

Skip

Warhead
08-06-2009, 06:05 AM
Hi Skip,
If one was following a keto diet for 8 weeks+,do you think a skipload would still fill you up or do you think more refeed days are necessary due to little to no carbs?

Also, for the trial skipload,does it have to be the same day of the week ex every wed? or can one do it on a wed and the other week on a sat?
Thanks for your time skip!

Ken "Skip" Hill
08-06-2009, 07:26 PM
It would fill you up as long as the load was long enough. A 6 hour load might not fill you out but a 15 hour load probably would. However, it is so individual that I can't be sure how long it would take without some experimenting.

It is best to keep the load on the same day each week. I have tried going longer than 7 days and shorter than 7 days but it just seems to work better at the 7 day mark and then adjusting the length of the load based on depletion.

Skip

TigerUpperCut
08-08-2009, 12:05 AM
what do you think about carbs in ur last meal of the night?

Ken "Skip" Hill
08-10-2009, 06:39 AM
what do you think about carbs in ur last meal of the night?

Not a fan. The exception is if you train in the evening or if your metabolism is just faster than hell and you are needing the calories and you aren't separating carbs and fats. Even then, I am still a little leary.

There are exceptions to everything but for the most part, I am not a fan of bedtime carbs, at all.

Skip

Extreme One
08-11-2009, 12:15 PM
Skip,

Could someone use an aggressive refeed in the off-season to help stimulate growth? For example: Eating slightly more than maintenance during the week but keeping carbs low and keeping the refeeds close to what they were pre-contest. Would this possibly work or would it: 1) lead to excessive fat gain and 2) make the refeed less effective for fat loss when it comes time to diet again? Thanks.

Ken "Skip" Hill
08-11-2009, 08:25 PM
There are a lot of individual factors but the refeeds during a prep are usually much bigger than offseason refeeds. If the refeed is too big, yes, you will damned sure get fat.

Skip

xXx
08-17-2009, 04:10 AM
Hi Guys, i'm relatively new to bodybuilding but am very keen to learn as much as i possibly can, i have only competed in 1 contest and have another in 7 weeks, i dieted on high protein, low carbs, low fat last time and as so many people seem to relate to i turned into such an arsehole for the entire prep, this time i have decided to try the keto way, and although i'm only 1 week into it i feel great and am happy with the results so far. my question is regarding the last week of prep, when and how would you guys reccomend i carb up and such like?

Also how do i achieve that dryness and paper thin skin look? people at the gym i go to seem to reccommend drinking alcohol the night before as well as adding around 10g Vit C for 3-4 day prior, is this the best/only way to achieve the look i'm after.
Any advice would be greatfully recieved..

Ken "Skip" Hill
08-17-2009, 04:54 AM
The best way to get that paper-thin skin is to get LEANER than hell. Everyone has a "trick" that they swear will get you that look but if you want to look like a freak, get crazy lean. There is your secret tip of the day. I know, pretty uneventful, huh? :)

Skip

xXx
08-17-2009, 05:46 AM
[quote=Ken "Skip" Hill;454005]The best way to get that paper-thin skin is to get LEANER than hell. Everyone has a "trick" that they swear will get you that look but if you want to look like a freak, get crazy lean. There is your secret tip of the day. I know, pretty uneventful, huh? :)

Skip[/quote

Hmmm Good advice, cheers. Any advice on how t get leaner than hell lol...

Have decided to try the High Protein/Mod Fat/Low Carb approach this time around as i was a nightmare on High Protein low Fat low Carbs, been on it little over a week and lost around 8 lbs so far. my BF is around 6-7% but i wanna get crazy ripped formy 2nd show in 7 wks time. I;m gonna experiment with my reefeeds trying 1 high cal meal next Sat and see wat results that yields. Then Maybe try 2 refeed meals week after etc and see how my body reacts.. :)

MAINEVENT
08-17-2009, 06:45 AM
Hey Skip, just wanted to drop by and say Hello. Always been a fan and love reading your info.

Any future competitions in mind?

Ken "Skip" Hill
08-17-2009, 02:51 PM
Hey Skip, just wanted to drop by and say Hello. Always been a fan and love reading your info.

Any future competitions in mind?

Thank you, ME, and I don't have any competitions on the horizon right now. I just got over being sick for 4 weeks and am back in the gym today. Gotta either get more size or just stay ripped all the time and be that "in shape old guy". :)

You know I will go for the size, first, but at least I have options. lol

Skip

th_vai
08-18-2009, 08:43 PM
Skip , I love to have things like waffles and hotcakes in my refeeds, are this foods ok for refeeds? I dont use butter or fatty stuff, mostly jam or syrup, would a low fat cake work aswell? so refeeds for example if its a 5hr refeed its eating in those 5hr the most carbs without going to the extremes right?

Ken "Skip" Hill
08-19-2009, 04:41 AM
Yup on all accounts. Eat by hunger during the refeed. Your hunger will tell you how much you need to eat.

Skip

GENERALXXL
09-17-2009, 06:56 AM
what is your view on running creating up to the show along with other supplements including taurine, glutamine e.t.c


Would you continue to run them right up to the day of the show or stop them x number of days out..

hope you can asnwer this, thanks

Ken "Skip" Hill
09-19-2009, 07:11 PM
Depends on the type of creatine and what your condition is.

Skip

MsGuns
09-19-2009, 07:15 PM
HI Skip, we have a mutual friend, Jeremy Kalma!
I hope all is well w/ ya in CO! no drama!

Ken "Skip" Hill
09-19-2009, 07:19 PM
No drama?? LOL You know better than that. ;)

Jeremy is a good guy. He told me that he knew you and I was surprised, yet again, as to how small the world is.

Skip

MsGuns
09-19-2009, 07:22 PM
No drama?? LOL You know better than that. ;)

Jeremy is a good guy. He told me that he knew you and I was surprised, yet again, as to how small the world is.

Skip

I dont know how you do it...hang in there!!!
Yes he is...
The world is small but some things get overlooked...I wonder how that works, but karma is a @#$%^!

Sliced N Diced
09-20-2009, 10:25 AM
Help me out skip...Im natty and considering competing in 8 weeks from yesterday. I can say the name yet ;) Im at 179 bf, 5'9..Im at 8-9% bodyfat. I have a coach but waiting for an answer and looking for more opinions. My chest and delts are seperated. I almost have a full six pack and full serratus. Glutes just have some last stubborn fat and my legs have never been so detailed. Lower back is like steel and my stubborn abdominal fat is on the lower. If I start prep say tommorow and become best friends with the step mill and get diet on point. Is it possible to still go in the best I can?

Ken "Skip" Hill
09-20-2009, 09:25 PM
I dont know how you do it...hang in there!!!
Yes he is...
The world is small but some things get overlooked...I wonder how that works, but karma is a @#$%^!

It is my one consolation. Thank God for karma. :)

Skip

Northman
10-20-2009, 01:46 AM
You do off season diets as well?

Ken "Skip" Hill
10-27-2009, 04:04 AM
I do. I actually do more offseason work than I do prep work even though I am known first for the prep work.

Skip

Mr. Hyde
11-02-2009, 06:10 PM
Skip, when you put together macros do you count carbs sources as just carb source, fat sources as fat ect. Meaning, do you count the protein and carbs in peanut butter or just the fat? Do you count the protein and fats in oats or just the carbs? I just started up a diet plan and i was gonna do it like to keep it simple.

Myth
11-02-2009, 09:31 PM
Hey Skip, did you ever divulge your offseason refeed strategy?

heavyiron
11-02-2009, 10:20 PM
Hey brother,

Stopping in to say hello...

Keep up the good work!

See you around

Ken "Skip" Hill
11-03-2009, 01:38 AM
Skip, when you put together macros do you count carbs sources as just carb source, fat sources as fat ect. Meaning, do you count the protein and carbs in peanut butter or just the fat? Do you count the protein and fats in oats or just the carbs? I just started up a diet plan and i was gonna do it like to keep it simple.

I don not count trace macros, no. I will count fat in salmon or fattier beef but I don't even count the fat in most protein sources, either.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
11-03-2009, 01:39 AM
Hey brother,

Stopping in to say hello...

Keep up the good work!

See you around

Thank you very much!

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
11-03-2009, 01:39 AM
Hey Skip, did you ever divulge your offseason refeed strategy?

Yes but ... don't ask me where. I can't remember. lol Probably at IM.

Skip

Futurefreak
11-05-2009, 05:30 PM
Hey Skip,
I just want to thank you for all of your contributions over the years. I have researched and studied hours and days at a time any and everything i could get ahold of and must admit, I learned a great deal of information from you and of course "zilla". I always do my own nutrition and help others as well and out of all prep coaches you have made the most sense to me. Thank you my friend. Here is a picture from The San Francisco Championship I happened to win. Yes I have done every single manipulation the last week you could think of and the trusty shitload has always yielded me fine results!

Futurefreak
11-05-2009, 05:33 PM
By the way, Im trying to get my GF to work with you as WE BUTT HEADS when I control the diet and I make her nervous so she cheats all the time!!!!!

Ken "Skip" Hill
11-05-2009, 11:07 PM
Hey Skip,
I just want to thank you for all of your contributions over the years. I have researched and studied hours and days at a time any and everything i could get ahold of and must admit, I learned a great deal of information from you and of course "zilla". I always do my own nutrition and help others as well and out of all prep coaches you have made the most sense to me. Thank you my friend. Here is a picture from The San Francisco Championship I happened to win. Yes I have done every single manipulation the last week you could think of and the trusty shitload has always yielded me fine results!

I am flattered when I hear things like this - thank you very much. I am happy to hear that the shitload has helped you with your peaking and especially with this latest win!

I would be happy to work with your GF so let her know I am ready to roll when she is!

Skip

YukonCrazy
01-20-2010, 09:05 AM
Ken Hill signed with MD.

MDur8
01-20-2010, 01:33 PM
That was Neil Hill, from the UK

Conrad
01-20-2010, 07:29 PM
When do cardio offseason and keeping to a moderate pace, just enough to get BF in check, do you think that carbs after cardio (20-30min) is essential? Or are results just fine with have a protien and fat meal shortly after with glutamine, bccaa and then going to bed?

YukonCrazy
01-20-2010, 09:12 PM
That was Neil Hill, from the UK

LOL.. my bad. :p

Man, I got some good pot right now! :yep:

Ken "Skip" Hill
02-09-2010, 03:12 AM
When do cardio offseason and keeping to a moderate pace, just enough to get BF in check, do you think that carbs after cardio (20-30min) is essential? Or are results just fine with have a protien and fat meal shortly after with glutamine, bccaa and then going to bed?

I am just not a big fan of carbs before or after cardio no matter during a prep or offseason. Yes, cardio in the offseason is more geared towards simply keeping your metabolism high so that you can consume more calories but ... if the cardio isn't intense (and it never should be) then there is no real logic behind having the carbs, anyway. If you "accidentally" burn a small amount of fat even in the offseason from doing some cardio it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
02-09-2010, 03:13 AM
Ken Hill signed with MD.

Nice. Tease me.

Skip

Conan the Programmer
04-15-2010, 02:55 PM
Skip:

Are you still available for questions? How about private consultation?

Darnelle B
05-23-2010, 06:27 PM
during the skipload should i be drinking water? it hard but i can still pound down a gallon. i know that the water help push the carbs. but i see some people having a hard to drink water but i have no issue.

then the next day im drinking almost 3 gallons of water once im back to my regular prep meals. and salt is back to normal. is that the right way to go?

Darnelle B
05-26-2010, 10:55 AM
the day of the skipload do you drop protein? or does that stay the same even while you trying to get all those carbs in?

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-15-2010, 04:48 AM
I apologize for not dropping in here often enough, lately. I am in the process of filming a DVD and between that and client work it has been long days these last several months.

Conan: I am taking on clients for consulting, yes. I don't have openings right now but I believe one is coming up the last couple days of June so if you are interested, email me: [email protected]. I would be happy to discuss working with you.

Darnelle: You want to get as close to your usual water intake as you can during a skipload but it usually doesn't work out that way. You will likely come up a bit short. Just be sure that the following day your water intake is back to normal and you should have no problem.

As for the protein question: That is something that I will be going over more in the DVD because I have actually changed the protein requirements for the loading and in most cases the protein intake isn't necessary. It depends on the individual but I am finding that I am leaving protein out more and more with very good results.

Skip

Rattbones
06-15-2010, 05:07 AM
Skip
Question for you.
I have been having issues with my left shoulder for a few years. I've found my training philosophy to be something like yours. HIT style where I do a few warm up set then one all out working set using drops or rest pause to failure. But I've had to back off this because of post workout shoulder pain, and I've stop seeing development in my shoulders as a result. Do you think there is a way to continue training hard without jeopardizing my shoulder? Do you have any other advice

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-15-2010, 03:43 PM
I don't use HIT style training for this reason. I can't do RP sets or even drop sets, usually, without overtraining in as little as a few weeks. I am a straight set guy with lower volume though I do have a system where I use a progressive volume over time and then reset.

Funny you mention shoulder pain, though, because I was forced to revamp my training due almost entirely to shoulder pain years ago so, in a sense, the shoulder issues were a blessing because it made me change my training and start growing again.

A lot of shoulder issues are from overuse so my first and best advice would be to cut volume and cut frequency to be sure you are recovering completely. I would also look at your chest training to be sure it is efficient and not overtaxing your shoulders on that day, as well. If you haven't had the shoulder looked at or diagnosed that would also need to be done so that you know what you are dealing with if, in fact, there is an injury to your shoulder.

Skip

scottmcd
06-15-2010, 04:33 PM
Skip have you gotten to ride your bike on the track yet?

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-16-2010, 02:28 AM
lol
No, not yet. It was a cold monsoon this last weekend so much so that I have hail damage to my truck. We were forced to hold off as the track was flooded. However, this week has been sunny and warm so we are THERE on Saturday. :)

Skip

rockhard
06-16-2010, 09:04 AM
Glad you are back Skip! When will the DVD be available and what will it cover?

scottmcd
06-16-2010, 11:34 AM
Do you still write a blog? It says updated daily on the site but I think that was a typo.

Ok I'll ask some serious questions now lol


Someone that is not near their peak muscle mass wise, ie needs to move up another weight class or two before they fill out their frame properly. Do you feel it is advantageous or a waste of time to diet down to pretty low(let's say 6 weeks out look) body fat levels?

ie take two twins and over a 3 year span

Twin A... "lean gains" the entire time with no breaks
Twin B... "lean gains" but diets down for 10-12 weeks every summer

Also out of curiosity in an offseason phase for your clients what are the smallest and largest time frames you've had for a reload? I think your former client Myth was doing something like 36 hours pre contest and posting insane refeeds lol

DOWORK
06-16-2010, 03:44 PM
Glad you are back Skip! When will the DVD be available and what will it cover?

Bump...Also how much will it cost?

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-17-2010, 03:06 AM
Glad you are back Skip! When will the DVD be available and what will it cover?

I have some big news that I am going to be posting about very shortly that could make for very good news about the DVD. I plan to finalize everything with this decision this week so I apologize for being slippery about it but I think in the end you guys will like the news. Hang in there and stay tuned. :)

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-17-2010, 03:13 AM
Scott,
Come on, now, I have so many irons on the fire that updating the blog is a bitch not only because of time with doing this DVD but also because I planned to put so much into the DVD that it was looking like a 2 DVD set so that leaves little to discuss in my blogs when it comes to dieting, training, etc.. Truth is, the biggest obstacle to the blogs right now is that I am "saving" information to have it all in the DVD.

Now, this could all change very quickly so stay tuned for the news that I was eluding to in the last post.

To answer your questions:

6% isn't a bodyfat level that you can maintain and grow from unles you are a freak. Still, even if you are a freak you would be selling yourself short by trying to stay that lean and grow. If you were to stay at 10% then that is different and I am talking about a true 10% and not the 10% that some guys SAY they are and they are really fat as hell.

The loading varies quite a bit but I rarely have to go below 6 hours for a load and I have about 20% of guys that are eventually loading all day from the time they wake up to the time they go to bed with about another 5-10% that actually end up getting to the point that they have to to start the load the night before their actual refeed day.

I would say that about 60% of people fall into the 8-12 hour window.

I hesitate to even discuss Myth because he was so far off from everyone else that it isn't even a good idea to give the impression to people that this is normal (what he did). Myth is a nice guy and he and I got along well but I can't honestly say that I was sure he loaded for that long of a time frame because I have never once seen anything even close to this be duplicated and I think you know I train a LOT of people since training Myth and even before training Myth. Some of his numbers are hard to believe.

Skip

Do you still write a blog? It says updated daily on the site but I think that was a typo.

Ok I'll ask some serious questions now lol


Someone that is not near their peak muscle mass wise, ie needs to move up another weight class or two before they fill out their frame properly. Do you feel it is advantageous or a waste of time to diet down to pretty low(let's say 6 weeks out look) body fat levels?

ie take two twins and over a 3 year span

Twin A... "lean gains" the entire time with no breaks
Twin B... "lean gains" but diets down for 10-12 weeks every summer

Also out of curiosity in an offseason phase for your clients what are the smallest and largest time frames you've had for a reload? I think your former client Myth was doing something like 36 hours pre contest and posting insane refeeds lol

scottmcd
06-17-2010, 08:28 AM
Yeah I was just messing around with the blog, I'd rather have infrequent good posts than daily drivel.

My initial question didn't come out correctly I guess, I didn't mean trying to maintain that very lean physique the entire time. I'll keep using the twin example and hopefully you'll see what I'm saying.

Twin A and B are both 25 years old, healthy, train appropriately with deloads every 6-10 weeks etc. Both currently sit at a satisfied 6'0 170 10% bodyfat and neither wants to go above let's say 14% bodyfat on the journey, both want to gain 25+ lbs of LBM over a 3 year time frame. Let's even call it a contest between them to get to 200 lbs at 10% and for this example they both have the genetics to do it. Lot's of assumptions and all that but trying to eliminate variables here haha

Twin A lean gains for 9 months of the year, and switches gears towards fat loss for 3 of them and pushes it fairly hard... but intelligently because you know, you are doing his diet right? haha.

Twin B lean gains for all 12 months of the year.

They both are going to lay down some body fat throughout the year obviously, so I'm wondering if in your mind the one who diets down has any advantage long term over the one who stays on a steady climb? This includes getting back down(if they went above in the pursuit) to the 10% required at the conclusion of the ocontest and not just putting on the muscle. Let's call it DEXA scanned too

Things to considering being how lean you think someone can keep while putting on a good clip of muscle, maybe even psychologically switching gears for a time and if that will provide a mental boost for someone.... however you want to take it.

Hope that was clear... just trying to pick your brain a bit.

Rattbones
06-17-2010, 09:21 AM
Skip when is the DVD coming out and how can we get it?

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-18-2010, 02:54 AM
Skip when is the DVD coming out and how can we get it?

I will have a LOT more solid information in about a week to 10 days. Stay tuned and I will be sure to get the information posted here and to my blog.

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-18-2010, 02:56 AM
I hate hypotheticals. Seriously, it is hard to determine because everyone is different and I know that gets old to hear but something staying at 10% for one person may be very easy to do and grow like crazy but someone else may fight to stay at 10% and the gains would be less impressive. However, all things being equal and assuming they need to get ripped at the end of the muscle gaining journey, it would behoove you to stay leaner because even if fat boy gains a bit more muscle he will likely not hang onto it if he has to diet harder in the end to get to the stage.

Skip

Yeah I was just messing around with the blog, I'd rather have infrequent good posts than daily drivel.

My initial question didn't come out correctly I guess, I didn't mean trying to maintain that very lean physique the entire time. I'll keep using the twin example and hopefully you'll see what I'm saying.

Twin A and B are both 25 years old, healthy, train appropriately with deloads every 6-10 weeks etc. Both currently sit at a satisfied 6'0 170 10% bodyfat and neither wants to go above let's say 14% bodyfat on the journey, both want to gain 25+ lbs of LBM over a 3 year time frame. Let's even call it a contest between them to get to 200 lbs at 10% and for this example they both have the genetics to do it. Lot's of assumptions and all that but trying to eliminate variables here haha

Twin A lean gains for 9 months of the year, and switches gears towards fat loss for 3 of them and pushes it fairly hard... but intelligently because you know, you are doing his diet right? haha.

Twin B lean gains for all 12 months of the year.

They both are going to lay down some body fat throughout the year obviously, so I'm wondering if in your mind the one who diets down has any advantage long term over the one who stays on a steady climb? This includes getting back down(if they went above in the pursuit) to the 10% required at the conclusion of the ocontest and not just putting on the muscle. Let's call it DEXA scanned too

Things to considering being how lean you think someone can keep while putting on a good clip of muscle, maybe even psychologically switching gears for a time and if that will provide a mental boost for someone.... however you want to take it.

Hope that was clear... just trying to pick your brain a bit.

AVBG
06-18-2010, 04:36 AM
Welcome back. Will the DVD be shipped overseas?

tight booty
06-18-2010, 08:21 AM
Welcome back Skip! :flowers:

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-19-2010, 03:06 AM
Welcome back Skip! :flowers:

Thank you. :)

Skip

Ken "Skip" Hill
06-19-2010, 03:08 AM
Welcome back. Will the DVD be shipped overseas?

Because I have so many clients outside of the US I had to figure that it would be stupid for me to not make the information available to everyone, everywhere. This is likely going to be one of the bigger reasons behind some of the major decisions that are being made right now and over the next week or so.

In short, yes, anyone and everyone will have access to the information from the DVD.

Skip

Kyle Witherspoon
06-22-2010, 01:51 AM
Because I have so many clients outside of the US I had to figure that it would be stupid for me to not make the information available to everyone, everywhere. This is likely going to be one of the bigger reasons behind some of the major decisions that are being made right now and over the next week or so.

In short, yes, anyone and everyone will have access to the information from the DVD.

Skip

Cant wait to see what on the DVD great idea!!