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View Full Version : Hows this for a mass building routine?



desibaba
04-05-2009, 06:46 PM
sat
quads
Squats 4 sets of 15,10,8,6 reps
Leg Presses 3 sets of 15,10,6 reps
hams
Stiff Leg Deadlifts 3 sets of 15,12,8 reps
Lying Leg Curls 3 sets of 15,12,8 reps
calves
Standing calf raises 3 sets of 20 reps
Seated Calf raises 3 sets of 20 reps
19 sets total

sun
chest
Flat Bench Presses 3 sets of 10,8,6 reps
Incline Bench Presses 2 sets of 10,6 reps
Dips 2 sets of 10,6 reps
shoulders
Seated Dumbbell Presses 2 sets of 10,8 reps
Dumbbell Side Laterals 2 sets of 12,10 reps
Bent Over Dumbbell Laterals 2 sets of 12,10 reps
triceps
Close grip bench presses 2 sets of 12,8 reps
Dips 2 sets of 12,8 reps
Cable Triceps Pushdowns 2 sets of 12,8 reps
abs
Leg Raises 3 sets (to failure)
Crunches 3 sets (to failure)
25 sets total
tue

back
Deadlifts 3 sets of 10,8,6 reps
Bent Over Barbell Rows 3 sets of 10,8,6 reps
Cable Pulldowns 3 sets of 12,10,8 reps
traps
Dumbbell or Barbell Shrugs 3 sets of 15,12,10 reps
biceps
Barbell Curls 2 sets of 12,8 reps
Preacher Machine Curls 2 sets of 12,8 reps
Dumbbell Hammer Curls 2 sets of 12,8 reps
forearms
Wrist curls 2 sets of 15,10 reps
Reverse Wrist Curls 2 sets of 15,10 reps
calves
Standing Calf raises 3 sets of 10 reps
Seated Calf raises 3 sets of 10 reps
28 sets

I go to the gym on monday and wednesday but only for 30 to 45 minutes of light cardio. The weight training days i might do a bit of cardio in the end if im up for it. Im a endomorph so the fat comes quickly if i dont keep an eye on it. So what do you guys think? Overall do you think this would be considered a high or average volume workout?

Ninja Loco
04-05-2009, 06:57 PM
Routines dont build mass. C'mon man, you have to know this. You can use this routine for cutting or bulking. The diet. What's that look like?

desibaba
04-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Routines dont build mass. C'mon man, you have to know this. You can use this routine for cutting or bulking. The diet. What's that look like?
High protein and fat but carbs are limited to pre and post workout only. Dave thinks im very carb sensitive because i store most of my fat in my torse while my arms and legs remain lean.

chasebny
04-05-2009, 07:21 PM
Why not move it to mon-wed-fri, and have cardio days on sun/sat?

Ninja Loco
04-05-2009, 10:26 PM
High protein and fat but carbs are limited to pre and post workout only. Dave thinks im very carb sensitive because i store most of my fat in my torse while my arms and legs remain lean.
Ok, have at it, lol.

desibaba
04-05-2009, 11:55 PM
Why not move it to mon-wed-fri, and have cardio days on sun/sat?
That would be ideal but my wife likes to train with me and she works only 3 days a week but those are 13 hr shifts on wed,thu and fri so she doesnt like doing any hard workouts on those days.

Big Al
04-06-2009, 12:11 PM
Routines dont build mass. C'mon man, you have to know this. You can use this routine for cutting or bulking. The diet. What's that look like?
85%!!!! :beerbang:

desibaba
04-06-2009, 04:34 PM
Routines dont build mass. C'mon man, you have to know this. You can use this routine for cutting or bulking. The diet. What's that look like?
I always thought a routine that uses mostly compound movements is considered a mass builder while ones that use a lot of isolation moves (like cable crossovers and leg extentions) are done primarily precontest when the bodybuilder is depleted and doesnt have the strenght to go heavy on compounds and doesnt want to risk injury

Ninja Loco
04-06-2009, 04:58 PM
I always thought a routine that uses mostly compound movements is considered a mass builder while ones that use a lot of isolation moves (like cable crossovers and leg extentions) are done primarily precontest when the bodybuilder is depleted and doesnt have the strenght to go heavy on compounds and doesnt want to risk injury
You're partly correct. The results of a program are based on intensity and recovery from that intensity, not on the movements themselves. It is true that a routine based on compound movements CAN be more intense than one based on isolations. But a 100 pound bench press, while being a compound movement in and of itself, is not going to be intense for someone that can do, say 315 for 6-8. Just no way. That's just an example, dont get too caught up in it.

You've already built a routine based on compound movements. Now experiment for a week or two on how much weight you can do for 6-8 or even 10 reps with those movements. And make it where it is so intense, that the 6th rep will leave your whole body tired and out of breath while still using good form. Then make it a goal to get one more rep each week with that exercise. Now you're talking progressive resistance. If you make it only heavy enough to get a pump, that is not intense, and your body will either acclimate, or not progress at all. That's the main problem with most people is that they think heavy enough to get a pump is heavy. It's not.

Once you have the weights down, make a diet that will help you recover from that measure of intensity. The weights, exercises, and overall routine are not going to do anything except trigger a need for change. Your diet is what is going to facilitate that change.

philborg
04-06-2009, 08:55 PM
Ummmmmmmm, listen to what Ninja just said.

HeavyDutyGuy
04-07-2009, 12:45 AM
The routines pretty good, but its the intensity you put into it that gets results. Train it like every sets your last and I'm sure you'll make gains off of it.

desibaba
04-07-2009, 02:38 PM
Considering the total number of sets per workout do you guys think this would be considered a High Volume workout?

Ninja Loco
04-07-2009, 04:28 PM
Both volume and overtraining. The leg day looks good, but even with that there's no way in hell I'd do more than three working sets.

The other days are overtraining, period. It's almost exactly like what most of the guys at my gym do. The ones that never make progress. No, Im not kidding or trying to be funny, it's not like it's difficult to notice.


But hey, give it a try. You might be the one physical wonder who can pull it off. Good luck to you, bro.

desibaba
04-07-2009, 06:56 PM
Both volume and overtraining. The leg day looks good, but even with that there's no way in hell I'd do more than three working sets.

The other days are overtraining, period. It's almost exactly like what most of the guys at my gym do. The ones that never make progress. No, Im not kidding or trying to be funny, it's not like it's difficult to notice.


But hey, give it a try. You might be the one physical wonder who can pull it off. Good luck to you, bro.
Okay what would you recommend then?

Ninja Loco
04-08-2009, 04:00 AM
Okay what would you recommend then?
Honestly? I dont know. I dont know because i dont know how and what you eat, nor what you need to eat. So what I recommend is you overhauling and tightening your diet before you worry about routines. Im not trying to be a wiseass, Des, not at all. But you have to have something in place that will allow for maximum recovery before you go putting together a routine that is meant to tear down and build the most amount of muscle. How are you going to go buy house building materials and start trying to put up walls if you don't even have a floor plan? You say the fat comes easy..... that's diet, bro, not routine; I promise you that. The diet will build the muscle that the routine tears down, the muscle will boost the metabolism. The heightened metabolism will help keep fat at bay (I said HELP, not totaly control). Yes, it really is that simple.

desibaba
04-08-2009, 04:19 PM
Honestly? I dont know. I dont know because i dont know how and what you eat, nor what you need to eat. So what I recommend is you overhauling and tightening your diet before you worry about routines. Im not trying to be a wiseass, Des, not at all. But you have to have something in place that will allow for maximum recovery before you go putting together a routine that is meant to tear down and build the most amount of muscle. How are you going to go buy house building materials and start trying to put up walls if you don't even have a floor plan? You say the fat comes easy..... that's diet, bro, not routine; I promise you that. The diet will build the muscle that the routine tears down, the muscle will boost the metabolism. The heightened metabolism will help keep fat at bay (I said HELP, not totaly control). Yes, it really is that simple.
i try to eat every 3-4 hours whenever im awake. Each meal has at least 40 grams of protein and 10-15 grams of fat in it with usually less than 10 grams of carbs (although lately i have been pigging out a bit) because we just moved and its been quite stressful to look for a new job and stuff like that. This diet has worked well for me because i felt like i seemed to keep the fat at bay but it didnt seem to hurt that much in terms of gains (strenght and overall bodyweight has been going up).

Ninja Loco
04-08-2009, 05:06 PM
i try to eat every 3-4 hours whenever im awake. Each meal has at least 40 grams of protein and 10-15 grams of fat in it with usually less than 10 grams of carbs (although lately i have been pigging out a bit) because we just moved and its been quite stressful to look for a new job and stuff like that. This diet has worked well for me because i felt like i seemed to keep the fat at bay but it didnt seem to hurt that much in terms of gains (strenght and overall bodyweight has been going up).
Solid. Then it seems the binging may be a culprit if you're not careful.

Every 3-4 hours..... and the word is "try", meaning sometimes you dont succeed. So Im counting about 160 grams of protein ON AVERAGE. You have to do better than that, bud. And you're going to have to stop "trying" and just do. But you know this so..... and it seems you're at least pointed in the right direction.


Does it have to be a three day split?

desibaba
04-08-2009, 07:21 PM
Does it have to be a three day split?
No. Its just that we cant make it to the gym on wed,thu and fri but anything can be done on sat,sun,mon and tue.

Ninja Loco
04-09-2009, 12:25 AM
The best 4 day split Ive ever tried, courtesy of razorriped.com


Find your 6 rep max weight for each exercise. Your 6th rep must be an absolute ball buster, meaning you will need help just to get the 7th rep, not just where the 6th is "hard".

Do one warm up set with 50% of your 6 rep max, but go to ine rep short of failure.

Do another warm up with 75% of your 6 rep max, same as above.

Do your one working set. When you cant get any mroe reps up without help, rest ten seconds and then go again with the same weight. Keep doing that until you can only get one good rep without help. AT THAT POINT, have someone assist you with forced reps until you cant get anymore up, even with help. DO NOT DO DROP SETS.

The next time you do the same exercise, beat that number by 1 rep. When you get to 8 reps, add enough weight to start over again at 6.

No forced reps on squats, bent over rows, lunges, or deadlifts.
Rotation A
Chest/ Bicep
Smith machine incline press 1 set
Hammer strength flat bench 1 set
Incline BD fly 1 set
Barbell curl 1 set
Machine preacher 1 set
DB hammer curl 1 set
--------------------------
Delt/ Tricep
Smith machine behind neck presses 1 set
DB laterals 1 set
DB hammer grip front raises 1 set
Close grip presses 1 set
Incline skull crusher 1 set
Seated barbell extension 1 set
----------------------------
Quads/Ham/calve
Smith machine squat 1 set
Leg press 1 set
Leg extension 1 set
Stiff leg dead lift 1 set
Lying curls 1 set
Standing curls 1 set
Seated calve raise 1 set
--------------------------
Back/rear delt
Barbell row 1 set
1 arm machine rows 1 set
Hammer strength high row 1 set
Pull over machine 1 set
DB reverse incline fly 1 set

ROTATION B
Chest/ bicep
Smith machine flat bench 1 set
Hammer strength incline press 1 set
Machine fly 1 set
Preacher curl 1 set
Seated DB curl 1 set
cable curl 1 set
-------------------------
Delt/Tricep
Hammer strength machine press 1 set
Wide grip upright row 1 set
Barbell front raise 1 set
Weighted dips 1 set
Flat bench skull crusher 1 set
Wide grip cable pushdowns 1 set
( I alternate grips between sessions, as well as use a rope at times)
------------------------------------
Quads/ Hams/calve
Hack squat 1 set
unilateral leg press 1 set
machine squats 1 set
Sumo presses( on leg press machine) 1 set
1 leg lying curl 1 set
1 leg static lunge 1 set
Standing calve raise 1 set
-----------------------------
Back/rear delt
Dead lift 1 set
Hammer strength pull down 1 set
Seated cable row 1 set
Stiff arm push down 1 set
Bent cable reverse fly 1 set

desibaba
04-09-2009, 12:41 AM
The best 4 day split Ive ever tried, courtesy of razorriped.com


Find your 6 rep max weight for each exercise. Your 6th rep must be an absolute ball buster, meaning you will need help just to get the 7th rep, not just where the 6th is "hard".

Do one warm up set with 50% of your 6 rep max, but go to ine rep short of failure.

Do another warm up with 75% of your 6 rep max, same as above.

Do your one working set. When you cant get any mroe reps up without help, rest ten seconds and then go again with the same weight. Keep doing that until you can only get one good rep without help. AT THAT POINT, have someone assist you with forced reps until you cant get anymore up, even with help. DO NOT DO DROP SETS.

The next time you do the same exercise, beat that number by 1 rep. When you get to 8 reps, add enough weight to start over again at 6.

No forced reps on squats, bent over rows, lunges, or deadlifts.
Rotation A
Chest/ Bicep
Smith machine incline press 1 set
Hammer strength flat bench 1 set
Incline BD fly 1 set
Barbell curl 1 set
Machine preacher 1 set
DB hammer curl 1 set
--------------------------
Delt/ Tricep
Smith machine behind neck presses 1 set
DB laterals 1 set
DB hammer grip front raises 1 set
Close grip presses 1 set
Incline skull crusher 1 set
Seated barbell extension 1 set
----------------------------
Quads/Ham/calve
Smith machine squat 1 set
Leg press 1 set
Leg extension 1 set
Stiff leg dead lift 1 set
Lying curls 1 set
Standing curls 1 set
Seated calve raise 1 set
--------------------------
Back/rear delt
Barbell row 1 set
1 arm machine rows 1 set
Hammer strength high row 1 set
Pull over machine 1 set
DB reverse incline fly 1 set

ROTATION B
Chest/ bicep
Smith machine flat bench 1 set
Hammer strength incline press 1 set
Machine fly 1 set
Preacher curl 1 set
Seated DB curl 1 set
cable curl 1 set
-------------------------
Delt/Tricep
Hammer strength machine press 1 set
Wide grip upright row 1 set
Barbell front raise 1 set
Weighted dips 1 set
Flat bench skull crusher 1 set
Wide grip cable pushdowns 1 set
( I alternate grips between sessions, as well as use a rope at times)
------------------------------------
Quads/ Hams/calve
Hack squat 1 set
unilateral leg press 1 set
machine squats 1 set
Sumo presses( on leg press machine) 1 set
1 leg lying curl 1 set
1 leg static lunge 1 set
Standing calve raise 1 set
-----------------------------
Back/rear delt
Dead lift 1 set
Hammer strength pull down 1 set
Seated cable row 1 set
Stiff arm push down 1 set
Bent cable reverse fly 1 set
Is this DC training? Im assuming from the rest/pause way? So you will reach failure several times in each set and then rest for 10 seconds and do it again? So one set can easily last for a couple minutes or so?

Ninja Loco
04-09-2009, 12:56 AM
Is this DC training? Im assuming from the rest/pause way? So you will reach failure several times in each set and then rest for 10 seconds and do it again? So one set can easily last for a couple minutes or so?
Not DC, no.

You reach failure on the working set, meaning by the sixth rep.

Then you rack the weight, rest for ten seconds and go again with the same weight. You might only get 2-3 if the original set was taken to true failure.

Then you rack the weight and rest again for ten seconds, lift it back up and go again. You might get only 1 rep.

At that point you have someone help you with forced reps until you cant get any reps even with the help.

One set can last for a couple of minutes, yes. But the routine is short since you dont have to warm up every body part once you warmed it up once. For safety's sake i might do a 75% warm up as an acclimation set, but thats it. I usually go straight into the working set after Ive done the first exercise for that particular body part.


This routine has been tried and tested, tried and tested, and always delivers. The pairings are done with thought and they do flow nicely.


WARNING: this routine, when done correctly, will wear your CNS out even with proper nutrition, so take a full week break every 6-8 weeks. But if done right, and with the proper rest and recovery, it will deliver the most muscle mass.

desibaba
04-09-2009, 04:45 PM
Not DC, no.

You reach failure on the working set, meaning by the sixth rep.

Then you rack the weight, rest for ten seconds and go again with the same weight. You might only get 2-3 if the original set was taken to true failure.

Then you rack the weight and rest again for ten seconds, lift it back up and go again. You might get only 1 rep.

At that point you have someone help you with forced reps until you cant get any reps even with the help.

One set can last for a couple of minutes, yes. But the routine is short since you dont have to warm up every body part once you warmed it up once. For safety's sake i might do a 75% warm up as an acclimation set, but thats it. I usually go straight into the working set after Ive done the first exercise for that particular body part.


This routine has been tried and tested, tried and tested, and always delivers. The pairings are done with thought and they do flow nicely.


WARNING: this routine, when done correctly, will wear your CNS out even with proper nutrition, so take a full week break every 6-8 weeks. But if done right, and with the proper rest and recovery, it will deliver the most muscle mass.
Sounds like a good idea because it would also cut down the amount of time we spend in the gym. How long do these workouts take in general? I also like to do 30-45 minutes of light cardio after weight training. Also is it okay if i do this routine on a sat,sun,mon and tue and then take the next 3 days off?

Ninja Loco
04-10-2009, 12:46 AM
Sounds like a good idea because it would also cut down the amount of time we spend in the gym. How long do these workouts take in general? I also like to do 30-45 minutes of light cardio after weight training. Also is it okay if i do this routine on a sat,sun,mon and tue and then take the next 3 days off?It can be done on those days. And Razor does recommend at least 2 days of cardio with this routine, even though for me the routine itself has been enough to not only keep fat at bay, but to help me burn it. I still do a form of cardio, but mine is core work geared more for strength and conditioning. I would not recommend cardio after training with this routine. As a matter of fact I dont think even he recommends it. Not immediately after anyways.

The workouts can take as little as 30 minutes. I go longer than that because I am a very, VERY hardgainer, and Im 43, so I take time with my rest periods. Ive used this routine as a recomp for the last few months and Im very happy with it. I just change the legs a bit because Im not a bodybuilder, nor do i wish to look like one and Im not ever looking to compete. Im a fighter hopefull, I dont need huge legs, just strong ones.

desibaba
04-10-2009, 12:54 AM
It can be done on those days. And Razor does recommend at least 2 days of cardio with this routine, even though for me the routine itself has been enough to not only keep fat at bay, but to help me burn it. I still do a form of cardio, but mine is core work geared more for strength and conditioning. I would not recommend cardio after training with this routine. As a matter of fact I dont think even he recommends it. Not immediately after anyways.

The workouts can take as little as 30 minutes. I go longer than that because I am a very, VERY hardgainer, and Im 43, so I take time with my rest periods. Ive used this routine as a recomp for the last few months and Im very happy with it. I just change the legs a bit because Im not a bodybuilder, nor do i wish to look like one and Im not ever looking to compete. Im a fighter hopefull, I dont need huge legs, just strong ones.
i just signed up at rr.com im wondering if there is a thread there that explains this routine in detail

Ninja Loco
04-10-2009, 01:30 AM
Not in this detail, but Razor is there, and it's his.

HeavyDutyGuy
04-10-2009, 02:11 AM
The best 4 day split Ive ever tried, courtesy of razorriped.com


Find your 6 rep max weight for each exercise. Your 6th rep must be an absolute ball buster, meaning you will need help just to get the 7th rep, not just where the 6th is "hard".

Do one warm up set with 50% of your 6 rep max, but go to ine rep short of failure.

Do another warm up with 75% of your 6 rep max, same as above.

Do your one working set. When you cant get any mroe reps up without help, rest ten seconds and then go again with the same weight. Keep doing that until you can only get one good rep without help. AT THAT POINT, have someone assist you with forced reps until you cant get anymore up, even with help. DO NOT DO DROP SETS.

The next time you do the same exercise, beat that number by 1 rep. When you get to 8 reps, add enough weight to start over again at 6.

No forced reps on squats, bent over rows, lunges, or deadlifts.
Rotation A
Chest/ Bicep
Smith machine incline press 1 set
Hammer strength flat bench 1 set
Incline BD fly 1 set
Barbell curl 1 set
Machine preacher 1 set
DB hammer curl 1 set
--------------------------
Delt/ Tricep
Smith machine behind neck presses 1 set
DB laterals 1 set
DB hammer grip front raises 1 set
Close grip presses 1 set
Incline skull crusher 1 set
Seated barbell extension 1 set
----------------------------
Quads/Ham/calve
Smith machine squat 1 set
Leg press 1 set
Leg extension 1 set
Stiff leg dead lift 1 set
Lying curls 1 set
Standing curls 1 set
Seated calve raise 1 set
--------------------------
Back/rear delt
Barbell row 1 set
1 arm machine rows 1 set
Hammer strength high row 1 set
Pull over machine 1 set
DB reverse incline fly 1 set

ROTATION B
Chest/ bicep
Smith machine flat bench 1 set
Hammer strength incline press 1 set
Machine fly 1 set
Preacher curl 1 set
Seated DB curl 1 set
cable curl 1 set
-------------------------
Delt/Tricep
Hammer strength machine press 1 set
Wide grip upright row 1 set
Barbell front raise 1 set
Weighted dips 1 set
Flat bench skull crusher 1 set
Wide grip cable pushdowns 1 set
( I alternate grips between sessions, as well as use a rope at times)
------------------------------------
Quads/ Hams/calve
Hack squat 1 set
unilateral leg press 1 set
machine squats 1 set
Sumo presses( on leg press machine) 1 set
1 leg lying curl 1 set
1 leg static lunge 1 set
Standing calve raise 1 set
-----------------------------
Back/rear delt
Dead lift 1 set
Hammer strength pull down 1 set
Seated cable row 1 set
Stiff arm push down 1 set
Bent cable reverse fly 1 set

Sweet routine by the way. Looks fun.

Ninja Loco
04-10-2009, 02:15 AM
It should be illegal.........

RazorRipped
04-11-2009, 02:05 AM
Sweet routine by the way. Looks fun.

Thanks:)

To clarify. That's my version of HIT training and that's an example of a 4 day split.

desibaba
04-11-2009, 04:03 PM
You guys dont mind if i copy and paste this at rr.com? There a couple of exercises i dont know about so i wanna know im doing before i start the routine. Looks like fun and i wont be spending hours in the gym. I dont have cardio machine at home and both me and my wife need to do some cardio. How bad is it to do some light cardio at the end of this routine?

SUMO
04-11-2009, 06:07 PM
Wow. This is really a great thread.