Fem Chem - Side Effects

[sassy69]

W/ all the "personal experiences" and broad discussions, I thought it would be appropriate to also explicitly talk about side effects. The goal isn't to "scare" people because the usual is "You'll grow a penis & a mustache". That's not useful and its stupid anyway. But there are some very valid considerations when you are looking at altering your natural hormone balance or playing around w/ self-medication - which ultimately all this is.

Wanted to open the discussion up w/ specific discussions of side effects - what are common, what you've experienced, etc. I think it doesn't help to say "DON"T USE PRIMO - ALL YOUR HAIR WILL FALL OUT!" Everyone has a different reaction and its important to be aware of everythign that is possible to help make your best judgments. I also think its important to look at what you think you're going to get from a certain compound and wht you might actually get. Just becaues you have access to something doesn't mean its appropriate for your goals. So you need to know what you're getting into.

I'll have more thoughts later..

[Sistersteel]

I personally will not run any drug before I research it extensively and know exactly what to expect. I will not give advice on any drug I have not personally experienced. With any new compound, I am never surprised when sides pop up. I have enough research on hand at all times to help counter just about anything.

I will not run any drugs with side effects I cannot handle, which dwindles down my list of drugs to a select few that I will rotate on and off throughout the season. Strangely enough, I actually cannot run some of the most commonly used female friendly compounds.

Things I will not use and why:

NPP: Made me look like a whale even on an immaculate diet, sent me to the ER with a blood pressure of 200/110 on the verge of a stroke, made me extremely aggressive. I would just wake up every morning with nothing but an overwhelming urge to put someone's head through a wall. The neighbors constantly complained about domestic disturbances that led to cops getting invovled on several occasions.

All that misery and I ran it at a measly 40mg/week for 6 weeks. I bailed on the cycle and will never touch it again. It is, however, the one and only drug that increased my strength dramatically and kept me pain free. I have not found a substitutie for it yet. Nothing aleviates my joint discomfort like Deca did.

I will not run Tbol because I find my moods change for the worst just like they did on NPP.

I cannot run winny. 5mg of Winny is enough to cripple all 210lb of me with squeaky painful joints and a dry cough that seemed to get worse at night. Nasty.

Primo. Wish I had good things to say. I pull my hair out in strands on primo. I would like to keep my hair thank you very much. So no primo for me.

Var..I don't know what to say about var besides the fact that I have run it as high as 40mg/day and was not impressed in the least. It is ridiculously expensive too to run at that dose for any decent amount of time. I'll throw it into a cycle at 20mg if I have any lying around. But besides that, I will not spend a dime on it ever again.

I cannot keep any food down on glucophage. I will throw up a hundred times a day a few weeks into a cycle.

That's all I can think of right now.

[Lee Penman]

I personally will not run any drug before I research it extensively and know exactly what to expect. I will not give advice on any drug I have not personally experienced. With any new compound, I am never surprised when sides pop up. I have enough research on hand at all times to help counter just about anything.

I will not run any drugs with side effects I cannot handle, which dwindles down my list of drugs to a select few that I will rotate on and off throughout the season. Strangely enough, I actually cannot run some of the most commonly used female friendly compounds.

Things I will not use and why:

NPP: Made me look like a whale even on an immaculate diet, sent me to the ER with a blood pressure of 200/110 on the verge of a stroke, made me extremely aggressive. I would just wake up every morning with nothing but an overwhelming urge to put someone's head through a wall. The neighbors constantly complained about domestic disturbances that led to cops getting invovled on several occasions.

All that misery and I ran it at a measly 40mg/week for 6 weeks. I bailed on the cycle and will never touch it again. It is, however, the one and only drug that increased my strength dramatically and kept me pain free. I have not found a substitutie for it yet. Nothing aleviates my joint discomfort like Deca did.

I will not run Tbol because I find my moods change for the worst just like they did on NPP.

I cannot run winny. 5mg of Winny is enough to cripple all 210lb of me with squeaky painful joints and a dry cough that seemed to get worse at night. Nasty.

Primo. Wish I had good things to say. I pull my hair out in strands on primo. I would like to keep my hair thank you very much. So no primo for me.

Var..I don't know what to say about var besides the fact that I have run it as high as 40mg/day and was not impressed in the least. It is ridiculously expensive too to run at that dose for any decent amount of time. I'll throw it into a cycle at 20mg if I have any lying around. But besides that, I will not spend a dime on it ever again.

I cannot keep any food down on glucophage. I will throw up a hundred times a day a few weeks into a cycle.

That's all I can think of right now.
Love your personal experiences...I think we should do a whole interview. From my interviews most women compare NPP to Primo...but I welcome your take. Let's work on an A-Z for women!

[Sistersteel]

Love your personal experiences...I think we should do a whole interview. From my interviews most women compare NPP to Primo...but I welcome your take. Let's work on an A-Z for women!

Thank you Leigh. I would be delighted to assist in any way I can. I've had the opportunity to discuss gear effects with women from all walks of like and am yet to meet someone with experiences similar to my own. This is a classic example of how sides and results vary considerably from one person to the next.

SS

[sassy69]

I think the broad range of stuff women experience are:
hairloss
acne / bacne / oily skin
period / flow interruption
water retention
facial hairgrowth
voice deepening
clitoral swelling & sensitivity
blood pressure increase

Something that I often see the guys bring up is anxiety on EQ. Are there other experiences of anxiety on different compounds?

[Tatyana]

Lipid/cholesterol disturbances

Do women also have issues with increased red blood cells/haemocrit?

One of the other issues you see with quite a few men is the imbalance in growth between muscle and tendons/ligaments.

Muscle grows much quicker than tendons and ligaments, and with some steroids, such as winstrol, which are thought to have a negative impact on collagen synthesis, there is the issue of increased risk of injury, muscle trauma and tearing.

[Allifit]

I think its important to disucss the psychological effects of steroids use as well. I don't know how all women feel, but I've heard many describe feelings of insecurity or depression when they taper or come down from a cycle. I'm not sure if that is simply a reaction to the change in the body or if its a psychological block about not being at your best if you're not using steroids....

[Lee Penman]

I think its important to disucss the psychological effects of steroids use as well. I don't know how all women feel, but I've heard many describe feelings of insecurity or depression when they taper or come down from a cycle. I'm not sure if that is simply a reaction to the change in the body or if its a psychological block about not being at your best if you're not using steroids....
And here we have yet another article! Anyone out there want to discuss psychological effects on and off gear feel free to e mail me at : [email protected]

[Lee Penman]

Thank you Leigh. I would be delighted to assist in any way I can. I've had the opportunity to discuss gear effects with women from all walks of like and am yet to meet someone with experiences similar to my own. This is a classic example of how sides and results vary considerably from one person to the next.

SS
Hi! Contact me directly at [email protected] and I will work something out with you re an article!

[Blondell]

Var and T-Bol... love both of these. I don't have much negative to say about either.

Winny..fine for me in small(er) doses than var and t-bol (10-12.5g/day). WARNING: I lost my singing voice w/ this one. Used to be asked to sing solos, but you wouldn't want to hear the now!

Primo...nothing to write home about IMO for the price, but definitely 'gentle' on me in terms of negative sides.

prop...another that I like. I use it only when going through a gaining cycle and keep dosages no higher than 25mg 2x/wk.

Sust....JUST SAY NO. LOL At least for me, that is. W/ same doses as prop, mood swings and extra hair growth was an issue.

Eq...I don't care for it. Made me WAY too hungry.

Mast...nice when lean. Same w/ proviron. I'm guessing many of you could have figured that one out. ;)

NPP...My fav injectable for cutting. Hard muscles and nice stregnth gains.


NOW......Most of these had an effect on the size of the clitoris. Size decreases when off, but never returned to what was normal b/f gear. The thing that I miss most id being able to sing. It was a simple joy in my life that I no longer have. I miss it dearly, but knew that it was a possible side effect. I accepted that. Choose wisely w/ that in mind. You MAY lose something that can never be recovered.

[tammyp]

i have post contest blues. but for me, i think its more of having more time on my hands, losing my 6 pack and last time missing my pro card by a fucking tie breaking point!

[sassy69]

i have post contest blues. but for me, i think its more of having more time on my hands, losing my 6 pack and last time missing my pro card by a fucking tie breaking point!

That would do it... but there is a collective effect of everything you do for competition that contributes to a post show rebound.

LEIGH: Good topic... post show rebound! What it is & is it possible to minimize?

[tammyp]

i had horrific water rebound from nationals being a 2 day show..i was 14 lbs heavier monday, than i was on sunday. my eyes were purple from swelling (and my botox mishap didnt make that any prettier) it took me almost 2 weeks to get normal. george said it wasnt so much the diuretics as it was having no water intake for almost 3 solid days. that is why having pj and night show on the same day is much better for bbers, imo.

[SallyAnne]

I don't like winny. It makes me very irritable, my joints hurt, and I have to constantly clear my throat.

[AndroGrrL]

I personally will not run any drug before I research it extensively and know exactly what to expect. I will not give advice on any drug I have not personally experienced. With any new compound, I am never surprised when sides pop up. I have enough research on hand at all times to help counter just about anything.

I will not run any drugs with side effects I cannot handle, which dwindles down my list of drugs to a select few that I will rotate on and off throughout the season. Strangely enough, I actually cannot run some of the most commonly used female friendly compounds.

Things I will not use and why:

NPP: Made me look like a whale even on an immaculate diet, sent me to the ER with a blood pressure of 200/110 on the verge of a stroke, made me extremely aggressive. I would just wake up every morning with nothing but an overwhelming urge to put someone's head through a wall. The neighbors constantly complained about domestic disturbances that led to cops getting invovled on several occasions.

All that misery and I ran it at a measly 40mg/week for 6 weeks. I bailed on the cycle and will never touch it again. It is, however, the one and only drug that increased my strength dramatically and kept me pain free. I have not found a substitutie for it yet. Nothing aleviates my joint discomfort like Deca did.

I will not run Tbol because I find my moods change for the worst just like they did on NPP.

I cannot run winny. 5mg of Winny is enough to cripple all 210lb of me with squeaky painful joints and a dry cough that seemed to get worse at night. Nasty.

Primo. Wish I had good things to say. I pull my hair out in strands on primo. I would like to keep my hair thank you very much. So no primo for me.

Var..I don't know what to say about var besides the fact that I have run it as high as 40mg/day and was not impressed in the least. It is ridiculously expensive too to run at that dose for any decent amount of time. I'll throw it into a cycle at 20mg if I have any lying around. But besides that, I will not spend a dime on it ever again.

I cannot keep any food down on glucophage. I will throw up a hundred times a day a few weeks into a cycle.

That's all I can think of right now.

Just curious...if all of those didn't do it for you...or you had a bad experience...what do you prefer to use? And I'm glad you posted your NPP experiences...I was looking into that...well that, and EQ

[SallyAnne]

I like NPP. lol That's what's so interesting about females and AAS. Totally different sides (or lack there of) on the same compound.

I experienced some good gains (slower, but good) - no sides at all. It really helped lube my joints.

[Lee Penman]

I like NPP. lol That's what's so interesting about females and AAS. Totally different sides (or lack there of) on the same compound.

I experienced some good gains (slower, but good) - no sides at all. It really helped lube my joints.
Personally I think NPP is a good compound for women and possibly better than primo. Many who use it still experience a degree of water retention but given the amount of fake Primo on the market it may be the safer/more effective option. Also speeds tissue healing as long as adequate protein is consumed.

[mshrdbdy]

Anavar @ 10-15mg a day.

Question though... I had a bad reaction to an AAS I took in the past and it affected my voice. I was only on for about two weeks when I noticed my voice getting totally messed up and stopped immediately. It's been quite a few months now and it's much better but still not the same. Will it ever be normal again? Is there anything I can do to help the process along??

[Sistersteel]

Anavar @ 10-15mg a day.

Question though... I had a bad reaction to an AAS I took in the past and it affected my voice. I was only on for about two weeks when I noticed my voice getting totally messed up and stopped immediately. It's been quite a few months now and it's much better but still not the same. Will it ever be normal again? Is there anything I can do to help the process along??


A voice drop is an irreversible side effect. It gets better but unlikely ever to be the same.

[Lee Penman]

Anavar @ 10-15mg a day.

Question though... I had a bad reaction to an AAS I took in the past and it affected my voice. I was only on for about two weeks when I noticed my voice getting totally messed up and stopped immediately. It's been quite a few months now and it's much better but still not the same. Will it ever be normal again? Is there anything I can do to help the process along??
Many 'experts' claim that voice changes are reversible. For some individuals this may be true, but for the most part, voice changes are permanent.

[Lee Penman]

A voice drop is an irreversible side effect. It gets better but unlikely ever to be the same.
Wow...we must have answered this at almost exactly the same time...synchronicity and the same answer!!

[Sistersteel]

Wow...we must have answered this at almost exactly the same time...synchronicity and the same answer!!

Great minds think alike! lol

[sassy69]

Anavar @ 10-15mg a day.

Question though... I had a bad reaction to an AAS I took in the past and it affected my voice. I was only on for about two weeks when I noticed my voice getting totally messed up and stopped immediately. It's been quite a few months now and it's much better but still not the same. Will it ever be normal again? Is there anything I can do to help the process along??

What was the stuff that messed your voice up? Winstrol?

[John Romano]

What would happen if you just didn't do any drugs? Well.... not exactly no drugs, just no male hormones.

[sassy69]

What would happen if you just didn't do any drugs? Well.... not exactly no drugs, just no male hormones.

Hopefully you'd be getting results from a targetted diet & training program. There's a whole world of knowledge & experience to be gained just around optimizing those two. In the context of contest prep, you'd also be in tune w/ the stresses from the extreme lifestyle - i.e. probably more prone to being sore & tired, the effects of the depletion phase would be more dramatic.

[John Romano]

Just some food for thought..... I prepped Shelley Beattie for the 1993 Ms. Olympia - where she took third behind Lenda and Laura - using absolutely NO hormones. Actually, she took nothing stronger than clen. Granted, she had used gear in the past, but not since 1990. So, three years clean. After she won the USA, her best placing as a pro was 7th at the Ms. International. Until she worked with me. So, Sassy is right.

[Bob Smith Jr.]

wow thats crazy john. What did you have her doing diet and training/cardio wise? just curious cuz she looked great.

[sassy69]

Just some food for thought..... I prepped Shelley Beattie for the 1993 Ms. Olympia - where she took third behind Lenda and Laura - using absolutely NO hormones. Actually, she took nothing stronger than clen. Granted, she had used gear in the past, but not since 1990. So, three years clean. After she won the USA, her best placing as a pro was 7th at the Ms. International. Until she worked with me. So, Sassy is right.


That actually raises a good point in that its much simpler as well. There arent considerations to worrying about making sure there's no water retention and other stresses from the hormones. So you have nothing else in the way when determining impact of simple changes to diet, training & cardio to tweak results.

[devil's_daughter]

I personally will not run any drug before I research it extensively and know exactly what to expect. I will not give advice on any drug I have not personally experienced. With any new compound, I am never surprised when sides pop up. I have enough research on hand at all times to help counter just about anything.

I will not run any drugs with side effects I cannot handle, which dwindles down my list of drugs to a select few that I will rotate on and off throughout the season. Strangely enough, I actually cannot run some of the most commonly used female friendly compounds.

Things I will not use and why:

NPP: Made me look like a whale even on an immaculate diet, sent me to the ER with a blood pressure of 200/110 on the verge of a stroke, made me extremely aggressive. I would just wake up every morning with nothing but an overwhelming urge to put someone's head through a wall. The neighbors constantly complained about domestic disturbances that led to cops getting invovled on several occasions.

All that misery and I ran it at a measly 40mg/week for 6 weeks. I bailed on the cycle and will never touch it again. It is, however, the one and only drug that increased my strength dramatically and kept me pain free. I have not found a substitutie for it yet. Nothing aleviates my joint discomfort like Deca did.

I will not run Tbol because I find my moods change for the worst just like they did on NPP.

I cannot run winny. 5mg of Winny is enough to cripple all 210lb of me with squeaky painful joints and a dry cough that seemed to get worse at night. Nasty.

Primo. Wish I had good things to say. I pull my hair out in strands on primo. I would like to keep my hair thank you very much. So no primo for me.

Var..I don't know what to say about var besides the fact that I have run it as high as 40mg/day and was not impressed in the least. It is ridiculously expensive too to run at that dose for any decent amount of time. I'll throw it into a cycle at 20mg if I have any lying around. But besides that, I will not spend a dime on it ever again.

I cannot keep any food down on glucophage. I will throw up a hundred times a day a few weeks into a cycle.

That's all I can think of right now.

SS, If you don't mind me asking, did you have mood swings before gear? And they were just enhanced?

Also going on an earlier comment: Has anyone had experience with depression/anxiety on EQ?

[~gymdiva~]

SS, If you don't mind me asking, did you have mood swings before gear? And they were just enhanced?

Also going on an earlier comment: Has anyone had experience with depression/anxiety on EQ?


good question on the first...and yes to the second! I really thought it was just me...maybe not???

[John Romano]

wow thats crazy john. What did you have her doing diet and training/cardio wise? just curious cuz she looked great.

The first thing I did was put a pad lock on the refrigerator. Dead serious. Next, I mapped out a 21 week diet and training plan. I totally controlled everything she ate - I made every morsel that passed between her lips. I trained her, did cardio with her, ate with her, everything. By doing so I was able to monitor her changes and make adjustments along the way. I learned so much about how women respond to food and exercise this way. I know I'm going against the grain when I say it, But I really believe that of all the drugs available today, the one that has the deepest most profound effect is food. And, the most powerful utilization of that drug is exercise and rest.

I believe that a better "female" bodybuilder can be made without male hormones. That's not to say that drugs wont be used, just not those that don't belong in you.

[~gymdiva~]

would you ever train a female competitor now?

[John Romano]

would you ever train a female competitor now?

I don't know. I guess it depends. I don't know if I have that kind f time to devote to contest prep these days. I have been thinking a lot about it lately. I probably would.

[mshrdbdy]

What was the stuff that messed your voice up? Winstrol?

No, I was instructed to take 1cc of Deca a week, after 2 or 3 shots I stopped

[Sistersteel]

No, I was instructed to take 1cc of Deca a week, after 2 or 3 shots I stopped


Jesus Christ...that's at least 250mg of Deca a week judging by the standards set by underground labs. :rolleyes:


And who is this revered person who "instructed" you to do that to yourself..please do tell!

[John Romano]

Jesus Christ...that's at least 250mg of Deca a week judging by the standards set by underground labs. :rolleyes:


And who is this revered person who "instructed" you to do that to yourself..please do tell!

Deca can also be had in 50 mg/ml

[Sistersteel]

Deca can also be had in 50 mg/ml

I have never seen an underground lab make a 50mg/ml Deca. The only lower doses I've seen are usually pharm grade and those are very hard to come by. The most popular pharm grade Deca I can think of actually would be Norma and even that comes in 200mg/2ml. Watson makes a 200mg/ml and that is pharm grade as well.

So with the exception of Organon that comes in either a 50 or 100mg/ml, I have never seen a 50mg/ml Deca anywhere else. Off the top of my head, here are some of the more popular companies I can think of:

QV is 200mg/ml
Stallion 300mg/ml
Tornel 200mg/ml
brovel 200mg/ml
sig pharm 200mg/ml
steris 200mg/ml
Astrovet 300mg/ml
Nutrivet 300mg/ml
powerline 300mg/ml
norandren 200mg/ml
animla power 300mg/ml
Denkall 200mg/ml
Ttokkyo 300mg/ml
QV deca 200 and 300mg/ml
IP 200mg/ml
Genesis 250mg/ml
Eurovet 300mg/ml
BD Decabol is 250mg/ml

All underground labs and vet labs make Deca in 200mg/ml or more. Chances of her running a pharm grade Deca are slim considering the cost and availability...that and she doesn't have a clue what the hell it was she stuck herself with in the first place. All she said was "I was instructed to use 1cc"...The fact that her voice dropped in two weeks and has not recovered months later is a pretty good indication that it wasn't 50mg/ml of anything.

Respect,

SS

[mshrdbdy]

Jesus Christ...that's at least 250mg of Deca a week judging by the standards set by underground labs. :rolleyes:


And who is this revered person who "instructed" you to do that to yourself..please do tell!


He's pretty well known and I'd rather not smear his name...

But u are correct, it was an underground lab. I ended up just givin the stuff to my boyfriend. I came off everything for a cpl months and eveb did a cpl diff cleanses.. I just started running Anavar again, will that have any further affect on my voice? It never gave me problems in the past..

[John Romano]

I have never seen an underground lab make a 50mg/ml Deca. The only lower doses I've seen are usually pharm grade and those are very hard to come by. The most popular pharm grade Deca I can think of actually would be Norma and even that comes in 200mg/2ml. Watson makes a 200mg/ml and that is pharm grade as well.

So with the exception of Organon that comes in either a 50 or 100mg/ml, I have never seen a 50mg/ml Deca anywhere else. Off the top of my head, here are some of the more popular companies I can think of:

QV is 200mg/ml
Stallion 300mg/ml
Tornel 200mg/ml
brovel 200mg/ml
sig pharm 200mg/ml
steris 200mg/ml
Astrovet 300mg/ml
Nutrivet 300mg/ml
powerline 300mg/ml
norandren 200mg/ml
animla power 300mg/ml
Denkall 200mg/ml
Ttokkyo 300mg/ml
QV deca 200 and 300mg/ml
IP 200mg/ml
Genesis 250mg/ml
Eurovet 300mg/ml
BD Decabol is 250mg/ml

All underground labs and vet labs make Deca in 200mg/ml or more. Chances of her running a pharm grade Deca are slim considering the cost and availability...that and she doesn't have a clue what the hell it was she stuck herself with in the first place. All she said was "I was instructed to use 1cc"...The fact that her voice dropped in two weeks and has not recovered months later is a pretty good indication that it wasn't 50mg/ml of anything.

Respect,

SS


You're right. I missed the "underground lab" part. Remember, I lived in Mexico for 5 years. 50mg was pretty much all we could get form the farmacia. 100 mg occasionally. Come to think if it, the vet deca did come in potencies as high as 200 mg. So, I stand corrected. And, really, no one should be poking themselves unless they know exactly what's in the pin.

On a side note, SS, I find it interesting that your fave is TA. Generally speaking, we regard that stuff right up there with hardest of the hardcore items. Would you be willing to discuss how you came to rank TA number one? I find these discoveries very interesting.

[Sistersteel]

He's pretty well known and I'd rather not smear his name...

But u are correct, it was an underground lab. I ended up just givin the stuff to my boyfriend. I came off everything for a cpl months and eveb did a cpl diff cleanses.. I just started running Anavar again, will that have any further affect on my voice? It never gave me problems in the past..

I am sorry that happened to you sweetie. Think on the bright side, a little raspiness can be very sexy. :)

I've never known var to cause a voice drop or even aggravate any preexisting raspiness. Just stick to a conservative dose of 10mg a day, 5mg in the a.m and 5mg in the p.m.

If I may suggest the following. Deca Drabolin usually stays in the system for a very long time. Its still detectable almost 18 months later.
I would advise you to stick to short esters form now on, so that worst case scenario you bump into this problem again, the drug clears your system quicker once you drop it and side effects do not linger.

I would also recommend you keep Aldactone on hand at all times. Aldactone is a diuretic with anti androgenic properties. It will help expedite the cleaning process and make side effects far more tolerable.

SS

[Sistersteel]

You're right. I missed the "underground lab" part. Remember, I lived in Mexico for 5 years. 50mg was pretty much all we could get form the farmacia. 100 mg occasionally. Come to think if it, the vet deca did come in potencies as high as 200 mg. So, I stand corrected. And, really, no one should be poking themselves unless they know exactly what's in the pin.

On a side note, SS, I find it interesting that your fave is TA. Generally speaking, we regard that stuff right up there with hardest of the hardcore items. Would you be willing to discuss how you came to rank TA number one? I find these discoveries very interesting.

Certainly, John. Would you like me to PM you about it, start a new thread or pursue this discussion with my response?

[John Romano]

Certainly, John. Would you like me to PM you about it, start a new thread or pursue this discussion with my response?

As you wish... I don't know how sensitive the matter is for you. I'd be grateful for any means with which you feel most comfortable.

[Sistersteel]

As you wish... I don't know how sensitive the matter is for you. I'd be grateful for any means with which you feel most comfortable.

Then I will PM you.

[mshrdbdy]

I am sorry that happened to you sweetie. Think on the bright side, a little raspiness can be very sexy. :)

I've never known var to cause a voice drop or even aggravate any preexisting raspiness. Just stick to a conservative dose of 10mg a day, 5mg in the a.m and 5mg in the p.m.Cool. That's what I've been doing

If I may suggest the following. Deca Drabolin usually stays in the system for a very long time. Its still detectable almost 18 months later.
I would advise you to stick to short esters form now on, so that worst case scenario you bump into this problem again, the drug clears your system quicker once you drop it and side effects do not linger. Thank u but I think the only AAS I will ever run again is Anavar, I know it works well for me. Since I do Figure I don't feel the need for anything more than that.

I would also recommend you keep Aldactone on hand at all times. Aldactone is a diuretic with anti androgenic properties. It will help expedite the cleaning process and make side effects far more tolerable. I will definately do some more research on this, sounds like a really good idea:)

SS

I really appreciate ur advice, thank u:)

[LookImDancinCrazy!]

On a side note, SS, I find it interesting that your fave is TA.

I'm assuming that's trenbolone acetate? That's what I'm using now. Aside from heinous insomnia the first two nights, I haven't noticed any unpleasant side effects at all. I think my hair is shedding a bit more than normal, but it's nothing frightful. Hard, strong, horny, and big. All good. :)

[ActionTan]

I got a raspy scratchy voice on 10mg of var...same on primo, again low dose. Annoying bacne too with both! It wasn't so much a deeper voice just that kind of scratchy wanting to clear your throat feeling. All returned to normal though except a wee bit of jawline spots which I NEVER had before.

Hello to everyone by the way :0)

[Sistersteel]

I got a raspy scratchy voice on 10mg of var...same on primo, again low dose. Annoying bacne too with both! It wasn't so much a deeper voice just that kind of scratchy wanting to clear your throat feeling. All returned to normal though except a wee bit of jawline spots which I NEVER had before.

Hello to everyone by the way :0)


:wavey:

[Lin]

I got a raspy scratchy voice on 10mg of var...same on primo, again low dose. Annoying bacne too with both! It wasn't so much a deeper voice just that kind of scratchy wanting to clear your throat feeling. All returned to normal though except a wee bit of jawline spots which I NEVER had before.

Hello to everyone by the way :0)

Hiya Tan :D xxx

[ActionTan]

Aye Up Mukka!

[MacFlashGordon]

Fantastic thread this. Just wanted to get that out there. Putting things out so people are able to access honest info is just THE best way to go. So many folks risk stuffing themselves up because such details are all hidden. A big high five to you all. Long may this sort of honest no ulterior motive' dialogue continue.

[MacFlashGordon]

A little dialogue in the background has me putting this point forward:
We all want to look as good as we perceive a 'good look' to be. It doesn't make any difference to whether its wearing high heels or building a physique at the gym.
Reading through this thread, there is no doubt that side effects are a consequence of taking chemically enhancing substances.
Personally the risks are potentially too damaging for me to bother. As an example I'd be a smoker if it didn't kill because I actually 'enjoy' smoking. However, the very real risk early death prevents me. So that's my logic ok?
With respect to female bodybuilding, hormones and steroids, I ask the question:'Why do it in the first place? Is it really worth the risk?'
I guess this doesn't really just apply to women but the associated negative irreversible androgenic effects don't seem to concern the male bodybuilding fraternity so much (societal reasons perhaps?). I just find this a fascinating topic. Any thoughts? Whats your motivation to potentially stuff yourself up and is it really worth it?

[sassy69]

A little dialogue in the background has me putting this point forward:
We all want to look as good as we perceive a 'good look' to be. It doesn't make any difference to whether its wearing high heels or building a physique at the gym.
Reading through this thread, there is no doubt that side effects are a consequence of taking chemically enhancing substances.
Personally the risks are potentially too damaging for me to bother. As an example I'd be a smoker if it didn't kill because I actually 'enjoy' smoking. However, the very real risk early death prevents me. So that's my logic ok?
With respect to female bodybuilding, hormones and steroids, I ask the question:'Why do it in the first place? Is it really worth the risk?'
I guess this doesn't really just apply to women but the associated negative irreversible androgenic effects don't seem to concern the male bodybuilding fraternity so much (societal reasons perhaps?). I just find this a fascinating topic. Any thoughts? Whats your motivation to potentially stuff yourself up and is it really worth it?

Based on anecdotal knowledge of the number of physique competitors, both bodybuilding and figure, and honestly I bet there are some bikini competitors using, there are many women who are able to use AAS and ancillaries w/o negative effects, or at least not blatantly visible effects. It is always a risk. If you educate yourself so that you have an idea of what you should expect, and even before you get to that, you educate yourself as to the most appropriate approach to reasonable goals, you have a place to start. IMO the first litmus test is whether or not you are dedicated and disciplined enough to achieve your goals w/ diet, training and cardio. And not just 3 months worth, but rather years. Because it is a lifestyle, and an ongoing journey. There is a whole lifetime of things you can learn & try just in terms of diet & training to produce different results and fine-tune to your particular body, lifestyle & metabolism before you even give AAS a thought. But if you are very intelligent, patient & conservative, you can generally safely do the experiment. If you don't like the results, then you have to responsible enough to also "own" the time it takes to ride out the compound clearing your body. But generally once it does, the sides go away.

[MacFlashGordon]

Hey Sassy. No doubt. What about the women who develop (unwanted) side effects? So, they have a physique rocks but irreversible masculinization results?

Once again I pose the question only. I liken the experimental idea you speak of to pointing a gun at yourself and pulling the trigger. You've shot a few pumpkins and some have fared better than others. You may get away with it but its a hell of a chance you take.

The look some of the girls achieve is amazing and depending on how you're wired incredibly appealing. The same for the guys but I don't fancy guys and that's that.

I just think 'wow what a risk'. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the visual impact that AAS can assist to create. Make sense?

[sassy69]

Hey Sassy. No doubt. What about the women who develop (unwanted) side effects? So, they have a physique rocks but irreversible masculinization results?

Once again I pose the question only. I liken the experimental idea you speak of to pointing a gun at yourself and pulling the trigger. You've shot a few pumpkins and some have fared better than others. You may get away with it but its a hell of a chance you take.

The look some of the girls achieve is amazing and depending on how you're wired incredibly appealing. The same for the guys but I don't fancy guys and that's that.

I just think 'wow what a risk'. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the visual impact that AAS can assist to create. Make sense?

Well first, just like anything, there's a risk/reward analysis to start w/. Unless you are trying to kill yourself, which is the unnegotiable result of pointing a gun at yourself, there's no reward.

Looking objectively at steroids... topical testosterone therapy is a common treatment for low libido. I'd venture that hormone therapy is incredibly underutilized in treatment of depression and other things that the medical community prefers to stick you w/ a prescription for Prozac. Women use estrogen manipulation all day long via birth control pills. Anavar is a common treatment for wasting diseases such as AIDS. Though currently controversial, hGH is a treatment for anti-aging, and anecodotally, I've heard of all sorts of amazing things it is used for that you'll probably never find published in the medical literature.

Then looking at common use of steroids in the physique industry (I'm not even going to address AAS use in sports for performance enhancement & recovery), I can guess that a large proportion of national level figure competitors use, and you dont' hear many stories about how deformed or "jacked" any of them look. Obviously BBs are the further extreme, but my point is to illustrate that its not like you pop one tab of anavar and end up looking like the Caveman on the Geico commercials.

And to the point of the decision to put things in your body.. people smoke, drink, abuse pain killers, recreational drugs and food all day long. People sit ton their asses and won't exercise, people work high-stress jobs and make it even more stressful because they won't take the time to clean up their diets. And there are NO KNOWN SIDE EFFECTS of that. So its just not a solid argument that its a foregone conclusion that use of steroids is equivalent to pointing a gun at yourself.

The bigger risks you run are in using something that maybe isn't actually the drug you think it is (could be cut w/ somethign or completely faked). Occassionally people have allergic reactions to the oils some of the injectibles are used with. In fact ibuprofen probably causes more bad things than steroids have ever done.

But ts a personal decision. Some people want to explore the next level. Some have no interest. The thing is that you're dealing w/ changing the levels of hormones you already have. So for one, they are not really completely foreign substances. And they also have fairly well-defined half-lives & detection times so you know how long they will remain in your system. When they clear your system, their effects clear to. Its the continued use / abuse of them that tends to cause the permanent sides.

So I guess there's no argument about it. If you have any concern at all about sides, then you have no business even bother to look at AAS. Other people have different levels of risk aversion and will educate themselves to a point or have enough people around them w/ experience to have a sense of what they are willing to get into or not.

By the same reason that I can't understand why anyone would smoke a cigarette or skydive, some may not understand why anyone would mess w/ steroids, others may not have those same issues.

[MacFlashGordon]

The skydiving analogy fits totally with my 'gun' logic though I do feel the analogy is slightly different to the point I'm trying to make Sassy but i'm refining the point and getting there. I guess the similarity with the analogy is that there is a chance it may go terribly wrong - in which case you umm 'expire'!.

Sticking your arm in a crocodile pen means there is a chance you might lose your hand / arm. If you win the game of probability you keep your arm - nothing changes. If you lose however, you can never be as you once were. You are still alive in both scenarios - it's just that in one scenario you'll be physically afflicted irreparably.

Given that the majority of side effects are negative or unwanted (I do realise there are some very positive ones too!), I'm just interested to work out the mechanism or psychology that drives people (and particularly women) to use steroids. I've seen some beautiful women ruin themselves and I'm pretty sure they didn't intend that originally. I've had discussions with women who admit that thier faces have altered and hardly feel thrilled about it.

I'm fascinated by the topic.

I try to put myself in the place of women that use for physical enhancement and don't get it given the risks I speak of. This is aside and separate from medical reasons and its important I state that. If my Sister or daughter was to use AAS I would feel uneasy about it. I wouldn't want her to risk ruining herself but I'd understand it would be her choice.

I also realise that its not fair for me to project my ideas and expect everyone to agree. I just don't like too see people risking what they have. There is no doubt at all that I contradict my own ideas all the time (as he drinks his third coffee of the morning...)

[sassy69]

But its a matter of degrees. When your options are well-defined and literally die or not die, then that's just a clear choice. For most, first of all, if you have NO tolerance for sides, then you, again, have no business looking at steroids. There are many other ways to achieve your goals. And second, unless you are very aggressively cycling (i.e. constant use / abuse) then the sides, for the most part, go away when the compound clears. Whereas if you lose the gun analogy, you're dead. Not , wait a few weeks and you come back. You're just dead. Its not supposed to be a scare thing. You can get similar sides from playing w/ OTC prohormones. Is the fact that they are OTC any "safer" than using true steroids? No. In fact they tend to be more caustic because they are still not regulated, but also filled w/ all sorts of other stuff trying to stay on this side of "legal" (i.e approximating steroids but not technically steroids) as well as stuff to make it all sound like a better product (i.e. a steroid AND an anti-e all in one, plus a little liver detox to boot!) Just because all of those things are in one pill doesn't mean they are all meant to be joined together like that. Steroids, on the other hand, are just steroids. They arent' trying to compete in the open market (i.e. be driven by marketing) but rather they are the pure substance (well, "pure" depending on your source), but they are not piled up w/ other stuff that approximate the real thing. And because you can't just buy them off the shelf, generally the consumers are giong to think at least a few seconds longer about using them and what they are trying to accomplish w/ them.

I guess the point I'm making is that generally you don't "ruin" yourself w/ one cycle of anavar. Just like you don't ruin yourself w/ using ibuprofen for a week. If you use ibuprofen for 3 months straight, you can start to cause problems w/ the lining of your stomach. You can OD on clenbuterol, go runnign to the hospital and they will tell you all you can do is wait it out. When it clears you'll be back to normal. There is a TIME FACTOR with these things. You have the sides and the resutls while they are in your system. They clear and then for the most part, you're back to "normal". Its abuse or stupid use of things that cause problems. There is always the chance of a unique situation where you individually get a bad reaction or maybe some bad stuff, but you run that risk if you didn't know you were allergic to peanuts or Benedryl or whatever. So its not really that far from anything else in daily life. Its the EXTENDED USE and STUPID USE that will "ruin" you. And further, only you can define what "ruin" means. For some, the risk and the resulting sides are just fine w/them, whereas others may think they have "ruined" themselves. I think people who pound McDonalds all day have ruined themselves. But in this politically correct world, I can't tell them that to their faces. It would be considered rude and potentially something legally viewed as a 'hate crime'.

I understand where you're coming from but you're on the outside looking in on a board that happens to have some experienced AAS users. For some its not a big deal at all. For others its an OMGWTFAREYOUDOING sort of thing. Its all a matter of degree, but first and foremost its a matter of education in what you think you want to do ,and if you so choose to follow that route, what is involved and how you back out if you need to. If these are not things you are willing to do, just stop looking at AAS and explore how to optimize your diet & training.

A similar conversation that we see all the time is the whole "why would you do that to yourself" w/ competition dieting. Some choose to push the envelope on what their bodies can do in terms of leaning out. But equivalently plenty of people seem to want to push the envelope w/ what their bodies can do in terms of getting fat. Is there much of a difference? Why would you do that to yourself?

[lilfella]

Great point Sally. A good portion of the population is obese. For most obese people this was a choice they made. Maybe they never wanted to be overweight, but they made a choice to not exercise and to keep eating foods they know are unhealthy. If only they were talked about, the way we are talked about in the media!

[sassy69]

I think what makes steroids such the easy target is the way the media portrays it and the govt, at least the US has gone after it. To the point where medical professionals have been hunted down for prescribing testosterone & GH for medical purposes, and now they all hesitate to do it even for legitimate reasons. I guess its all in the perception, eh? Now when the DEA starts rounding up people who eat Big Macs, or buy for their co-workers and distribute at lunch time (i.e. purchase w/ intent to distribute, aka McTrafficking in fat-enhancers) then you might see an interesting response....

[MacFlashGordon]

I don't disagree with you at all Sassy. Appreciate the discussion in this forum.

[maike]

SS, If you don't mind me asking, did you have mood swings before gear? And they were just enhanced?

Also going on an earlier comment: Has anyone had experience with depression/anxiety on EQ?

I am interested in that answer as well! I'm using EQ at the moment and experiencing some moodswings... although, i can be quite moody myself, so i can't say for sure it's purely an effect of the EQ:p

[Elphaba]

That just takes the fucking cake Sassy, McTrafficking!!!
I can't wait to use that on the McPushers at work!!!
BWAAAHAAA!!!
Absolutely priceless...
E

[Sistersteel]

GX m'daaaling!

Do me a favor and give Messi a warning "a la GX style".

GM has requested we clean it up so I hope you forgive me for deleting our posts. But she makes a valid point.

Love you guys :hugme:

SS

[MacFlashGordon]

W/ all the "personal experiences" and broad discussions, I thought it would be appropriate to also explicitly talk about side effects. The goal isn't to "scare" people because the usual is "You'll grow a penis & a mustache". That's not useful and its stupid anyway. But there are some very valid considerations when you are looking at altering your natural hormone balance or playing around w/ self-medication - which ultimately all this is.

Wanted to open the discussion up w/ specific discussions of side effects - what are common, what you've experienced, etc. I think it doesn't help to say "DON"T USE PRIMO - ALL YOUR HAIR WILL FALL OUT!" Everyone has a different reaction and its important to be aware of everythign that is possible to help make your best judgments. I also think its important to look at what you think you're going to get from a certain compound and wht you might actually get. Just becaues you have access to something doesn't mean its appropriate for your goals. So you need to know what you're getting into.

I'll have more thoughts later..

Showed this entire thread to a girlfriend last night. Although started while ago it was an excellent thread to bring other opinions into the discussion. Brilliant. Thanks.

[s2h]

The first thing I did was put a pad lock on the refrigerator. Dead serious. Next, I mapped out a 21 week diet and training plan. I totally controlled everything she ate - I made every morsel that passed between her lips. I trained her, did cardio with her, ate with her, everything. By doing so I was able to monitor her changes and make adjustments along the way. I learned so much about how women respond to food and exercise this way. I know I'm going against the grain when I say it, But I really believe that of all the drugs available today, the one that has the deepest most profound effect is food. And, the most powerful utilization of that drug is exercise and rest.

I believe that a better "female" bodybuilder can be made without male hormones. That's not to say that drugs wont be used, just not those that don't belong in you.that is a excellent statement john,this is why i spend more time on q&A on fhem chem than the male posts.John hit the nail on the head,my wife is a FBB and if i told her "hey hon take 300mg of cyp a week she would think for 3 seconds and say....is it gonna be ok?"The reasonn i study all this stuff on women is because she doesnt...hell she doesnt know NPP from winstrol and she has competed for years and won state championships.She was lucky before we met that her trrainer had john's ideas and that was mild ASS user(no male stuff)and believed diet and training being 90% of the equation.i have stuck to this ideal and believe that women hold muscle much better than men and can get away w/much less and gain much more per pound.I know alot of you gals(tammyp,sassy.sistersteel etc)know what these drugs can and will do to you,but for the others educate yourself,women arent men and vis versa so you have to really understand what your doing to your body short and long term,so that's why i like to come to this site and sometimes give my 2 cents worth,nice job JOHN R!!!

[sassy69]

that is a excellent statement john,this is why i spend more time on q&A on fhem chem than the male posts.John hit the nail on the head,my wife is a FBB and if i told her "hey hon take 300mg of cyp a week she would think for 3 seconds and say....is it gonna be ok?"The reasonn i study all this stuff on women is because she doesnt...hell she doesnt know NPP from winstrol and she has competed for years and won state championships.She was lucky before we met that her trrainer had john's ideas and that was mild ASS user(no male stuff)and believed diet and training being 90% of the equation.i have stuck to this ideal and believe that women hold muscle much better than men and can get away w/much less and gain much more per pound.I know alot of you gals(tammyp,sassy.sistersteel etc)know what these drugs can and will do to you,but for the others educate yourself,women arent men and vis versa so you have to really understand what your doing to your body short and long term,so that's why i like to come to this site and sometimes give my 2 cents worth,nice job JOHN R!!!


I'm sure you're familiar w/ my rants on this.. but seriously this is just irresponsible of her. What happens if you get hit by a truck & she's in the middle of a cycle? She's shit out of luck. How's she going to associate the responses she gets w/ the stuff you learned? Its great you're helping, but if you want to play on the dark side, YOU and ONLY YOU are responsible for yourself.

I do hope she's at least getting the basics for herself.

Has she gotten her lipids tested lately? Been to an OBGYN? Gotten regular blood tests?

.. just saying ... knowledge is power, but its more poweful when its your own :) and I'm just a hard-ass that way.

[yelverton]

Hey all :-)

I ran oral primo (schering) at 12.5 a day for around 12 weeks - noticed a little hair loss but nothing major, also got a few small spots on shoulders/back but this could have been the sunscreen? nice lean gains & I felt good.

Currently using an ug lab Anavar at 20mg ed - only 3 weeks in, no big strengh increases but my muscles are like rock! + severe muscle pumps esp in quads?? a little hair loss again but nothing bad so far :-)

[s2h]

I'm sure you're familiar w/ my rants on this.. but seriously this is just irresponsible of her. What happens if you get hit by a truck & she's in the middle of a cycle? She's shit out of luck. How's she going to associate the responses she gets w/ the stuff you learned? Its great you're helping, but if you want to play on the dark side, YOU and ONLY YOU are responsible for yourself.

I do hope she's at least getting the basics for herself.

Has she gotten her lipids tested lately? Been to an OBGYN? Gotten regular blood tests?

.. just saying ... knowledge is power, but its more poweful when its your own :) and I'm just a hard-ass that way.i think you got me all wrong,i educate my wife on everything about AAS and women that i know and learn.She still has the same trainer as before so if the truck gets me she'll be rich and still have good advice.Yes to all your other Q's we all get our blood done 3 times a year,she has her own room at the OBGYN,come on she's 53 there's lots goin on at that age/by the way she looks damn good to(txbbchck)see what ya think.i spread all my knowledge w my wife and all other female competititors that we train and prep with,i want people to succed in this sport but also to be healthy and safe doing it,so i'm sorry if you tok my statement in the wrong way!!

[tammyp]

i think i read and read for months, and asked questions til the cows came home before i touched a thing. that is how i met sassy actually. we need to be responsible for our own bodies. not our trainer, or our spouse..US. we have to live with the sides, good and bad. how many women do you know that listened to a BF or trainer, got terrible sides..and boom...gone are the BF and trainer. and shes left shaving her face, dealing with baldness or much worse.

[s2h]

i think i read and read for months, and asked questions til the cows came home before i touched a thing. that is how i met sassy actually. we need to be responsible for our own bodies. not our trainer, or our spouse..US. we have to live with the sides, good and bad. how many women do you know that listened to a BF or trainer, got terrible sides..and boom...gone are the BF and trainer. and shes left shaving her face, dealing with baldness or much worse.
you have a very good point and i agree,but for one were married and for a long time so relationship wise were pretty stable,and the comment (i made)about she doesnt know npp from winni is a BIT exagerated.She's not hindin in a closet with glass that says"break to inject"it's just that i have a greater understanding of AAS usage by my own usage and by watching the usage of many female BB's so i feel my understanding of AAS usage is much more advanced than hers.Inturn she knows more than your average FBB but is she going to hold a round table on the effects of 40mg of turinabol on a 145 pd 32 yr old women w/ John,Dave,Dan Duchaine NO!So she is responsible but i feel it my responsibilty as her husband and lifemate to help her as much as i can.Truth be told i have learned alot from you gals on hear a enjoy coming on this site/post everyday and will continue to do so and hope to always learn more,just cause i'm a guy doesnt mean i wont listen to a women!!!!

[sassy69]

i think you got me all wrong,i educate my wife on everything about AAS and women that i know and learn.She still has the same trainer as before so if the truck gets me she'll be rich and still have good advice.Yes to all your other Q's we all get our blood done 3 times a year,she has her own room at the OBGYN,come on she's 53 there's lots goin on at that age/by the way she looks damn good to(txbbchck)see what ya think.i spread all my knowledge w my wife and all other female competititors that we train and prep with,i want people to succed in this sport but also to be healthy and safe doing it,so i'm sorry if you tok my statement in the wrong way!!


I guess my point is that I'd like to see the women engage in discussion themselves instead of via whatever guy. Just me. Nothing makes me gag more than when I hear "I'm putting my girl on * fill in favorite drug* " or my trainer told me to use *whatever*. Like I said, that's just me because not all "my guys" or "my trainer" know much of anything about AAS & women.

The important thing is that she is well informed.

[sassy69]

you have a very good point and i agree,but for one were married and for a long time so relationship wise were pretty stable,and the comment (i made)about she doesnt know npp from winni is a BIT exagerated.She's not hindin in a closet with glass that says"break to inject"it's just that i have a greater understanding of AAS usage by my own usage and by watching the usage of many female BB's so i feel my understanding of AAS usage is much more advanced than hers.Inturn she knows more than your average FBB but is she going to hold a round table on the effects of 40mg of turinabol on a 145 pd 32 yr old women w/ John,Dave,Dan Duchaine NO!So she is responsible but i feel it my responsibilty as her husband and lifemate to help her as much as i can.Truth be told i have learned alot from you gals on hear a enjoy coming on this site/post everyday and will continue to do so and hope to always learn more,just cause i'm a guy doesnt mean i wont listen to a women!!!!

This is where I was going -- every time you alter your hormone profile, its your own personal experiment. If "the guy" puts "his girl" on some tren because its a nice cutter for a competition prep, and then she starts getting really pissy, is she going to know to associate that w/ the fact that maybe she's affected by tren that way. If she knew anything about tren from reading the broad spectrum of anecdotal posts), she could draw that conclusion. Someone else might just think its just PMS or she's a bitch. The effects of drugs are sometimes very obvious & sometimes very subtle. Someone outside of her body (the person experiencing it) might not be aware of these subtle changes or know to watch for them if they aren't experiencing them. Or equivalently, the person experiencing might not be aware of the potential effects if they weren't already aware of them. I.e. you don't always know to ask the questions of the person doing your research, and they dont' always know that this or that little point is actually the missing piece of information.

I've learned more about myself, my behaviors, my moods & my body from observing the experiences I"ve gone thru during competition (e.g. low carb days, motivation to get thru a workout, what drives me, what parts of it I hate, and what parts of it I love, what parts of it I'm likely to respond to w/a bitchy attitude, how to deal w/ those moments, what foods make me break out, what types of cardio really F me up, etc etc etc) - I doubt anyeone else would've picked these up and pointed them out to me, because no one else has my view & familiarity w/ my life & "how" I am.

[s2h]

i totally agree w/ what your saying and she knows what effects her and in what ways,i have steered her away from many different AAS,mostly because i know from my years of preping for shows with her what works well and what doesnt.do we still disagree at some point well "yes" but i'm always looking out for her best interesrt health wise first and foremost,which is were even the so called "gurus'have wanted her to do certain ASSand i felt it was a bad thing for her in the long run.She is trained and nutrition is done by aguy in our area that has 2 ifbb pro girls 1 BB 1 figure,but when they do cerrtain things i always discuss these things in detail with her and how it can or could effect her body,mood and so on.do i know her body 100% NO but i'm pretty close,and we all agree(her,me,trainer)that diet,training and cardio are the most important factor w/ AAs use being a small part of the equation.i believe by the steps we have taken over the years(shes been training for 30 years)that the right compinations have been put into place.I have incuraged her to get out on this site and discuss some offf these topics but she is a very private type and prefers not to do that,so i get on here and read and listen for her.we have many long talks about what research and discover from ladies like your self and will continue to do so,thanks for your input and knowledge!

[sassy69]

FWIW, please let her feel free to PM any of the mods directly for private questions. Fear of asking can be limiting as well. Frankly if you look at the discussion on the general chem board, guys are talking all day long about things like depression, limp dick, no sex drive and the urge to break down and cry like a little girl because of the various sides of AAS. And they do it openly and w/o any hang ups. I doubt you'd see a bunch of musclebound guys having these conversations anywhere else w/o having some sort of feeling of being a "pussy" or a "little bitch". These are very simply examples of the wide range of things that hormone manipulation impact.

[s2h]

FWIW, please let her feel free to PM any of the mods directly for private questions. Fear of asking can be limiting as well. Frankly if you look at the discussion on the general chem board, guys are talking all day long about things like depression, limp dick, no sex drive and the urge to break down and cry like a little girl because of the various sides of AAS. And they do it openly and w/o any hang ups. I doubt you'd see a bunch of musclebound guys having these conversations anywhere else w/o having some sort of feeling of being a "pussy" or a "little bitch". These are very simply examples of the wide range of things that hormone manipulation impact.
Thats classic! honestly i'm on here (fhem chem) to learn for my wife 1st and foremost,but your point about the GUY chem boards is so on the spot.So many of these guys get on there and whine and cry"why doesnt this do that or i'm takn this much off this and that and i'm dont look like Branchh Warren is this shit bunk???"It cracks me up i go over there for entertainment more than anything,but inturn in come here and i feel like i'm hearing real stories and real problems and real answers,i truly believe women are more honest and open about what effects them if it's sex drive ,mood ,physical change or wahtever .I will ask my wife to PM you if she has any questions and doesnt want to discuss then w/ me and feels better asking you,thanks!

[sassy69]

Thats classic! honestly i'm on here (fhem chem) to learn for my wife 1st and foremost,but your point about the GUY chem boards is so on the spot.So many of these guys get on there and whine and cry"why doesnt this do that or i'm takn this much off this and that and i'm dont look like Branchh Warren is this shit bunk???"It cracks me up i go over there for entertainment more than anything,but inturn in come here and i feel like i'm hearing real stories and real problems and real answers,i truly believe women are more honest and open about what effects them if it's sex drive ,mood ,physical change or wahtever .I will ask my wife to PM you if she has any questions and doesnt want to discuss then w/ me and feels better asking you,thanks!


But even moreso, I think the chem board is where guys are discussing real issues associated with steroid use, and they do it very often, just in straight up conversation and no one generally shits on them for it, because probably all of them can relate in terms of limp dick, shrunken balls, no sex drive, depression, etc. These are all traditional indicators of "other than manly" or "weakness", but they are discussed as legitimate issues. First they truly give you an indication of all the other more subtle results of manipulating your hormone balance, and second, they are discussed openly and as legitimate subjects. If a girl says she has lower libido or talks about some of the other sides, guaranteed someone is going to jump on her for even using AAS and is on her way to buying an electric razor & a jock strap. Or women simply won't bring up those issues. And this is a big reason why there is not much known about the issues women can encounter - and frankly from any hormone issue - anything from menopause, to estrogen therapy, progesterone imbalances, in addition to AAS use.

SO just back to my intiial point of the person doing the self-medication needing to be really in tune with their body and be knowledgeable about the chemicals they are playing with. Even the medical field is sorely uninformed and misinformed about the part hormones and hormone balance plays in the human body. So it is literally your own personal experiment and there is no "authority" to go to get any better information or guidance than to do your own experiments and observe & interpret the results for your own body.

[s2h]

But even moreso, I think the chem board is where guys are discussing real issues associated with steroid use, and they do it very often, just in straight up conversation and no one generally shits on them for it, because probably all of them can relate in terms of limp dick, shrunken balls, no sex drive, depression, etc. These are all traditional indicators of "other than manly" or "weakness", but they are discussed as legitimate issues. First they truly give you an indication of all the other more subtle results of manipulating your hormone balance, and second, they are discussed openly and as legitimate subjects. If a girl says she has lower libido or talks about some of the other sides, guaranteed someone is going to jump on her for even using AAS and is on her way to buying an electric razor & a jock strap. Or women simply won't bring up those issues. And this is a big reason why there is not much known about the issues women can encounter - and frankly from any hormone issue - anything from menopause, to estrogen therapy, progesterone imbalances, in addition to AAS use.

SO just back to my intiial point of the person doing the self-medication needing to be really in tune with their body and be knowledgeable about the chemicals they are playing with. Even the medical field is sorely uninformed and misinformed about the part hormones and hormone balance plays in the human body. So it is literally your own personal experiment and there is no "authority" to go to get any better information or guidance than to do your own experiments and observe & interpret the results for your own body.
This is kinda scary i dont think i've agreed this many times with a women in my life,to be honest half the guys on the other posts are totally lost about AAS use it's know wonder there balls are gone and there dicks wont work and they dont listen to the guys that know there shit,it's funny,good luck to ya Sassy i'm sure we will discuss things again sooner or later!!!