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Nattynomore
04-30-2009, 02:16 PM
Just finished the following 10 week cycle on Tuesday:

200mg/week test cyp
300mg/week test enth
250mg/week deca

I am now dropping back down to HRT dose of 200mg/week test cyp. I have to have blood work in a month. Will levels be back to HRT baseline by then or should I push off the appointment for a few more weeks??

esplendido
04-30-2009, 03:06 PM
Just finished the following 10 week cycle on Tuesday:

200mg/week test cyp
300mg/week test enth
250mg/week deca

I am now dropping back down to HRT dose of 200mg/week test cyp. I have to have blood work in a month. Will levels be back to HRT baseline by then or should I push off the appointment for a few more weeks??
The cyp and enanthate levels from your cycle take about 3 weeks from the last pinning to get you back to HRT levels. What will not recover that quickly will be your lipid levels. Your LDL will still be somewhat high and your HDL will be low. That might raise the docs eyebrows and make him think that 200mg/wk of test is too much. I'd give it 8 weeks if you can....and load up on the fish oil caps....6-8mg/day.

I'm guessing you had the enanthate as the non-script AS and the cyp was your script? They're nearly identical and stacking them doesn't add anything to your cycle. You would've been better off with tren ace along with the test cyp.

How'd your cycle work out?

Nattynomore
04-30-2009, 03:28 PM
My HRT doc is only ordering free/total test, PSA, and liver function. This is my first follow-up and, assuming levels aren't too high, I am going to request an increase (250 or 300 per week). I think he is gtg until about total hits about 1100.

I only added the test enth because I had it. I knew they were pretty much the same. Overall, the cycle went GREAT. Almost returned to PRs on many lifts after they had fallen off due to low test. Gained about 18 solid pounds. Might have been able to due a bit better with tighter diet, but I am thrilled overall.

After my follow-up, the next cycle will be 700mg/week test (c&e), plus 250mg/deca. Deca is mainly for joints. Saving tren for third cycle.

Based upon the fact doc will not be looking at LDL/HDL, do you still feel I need 8 weeks??

esplendido
04-30-2009, 03:53 PM
My HRT doc is only ordering free/total test, PSA, and liver function. This is my first follow-up and, assuming levels aren't too high, I am going to request an increase (250 or 300 per week). I think he is gtg until about total hits about 1100.

I only added the test enth because I had it. I knew they were pretty much the same. Overall, the cycle went GREAT. Almost returned to PRs on many lifts after they had fallen off due to low test. Gained about 18 solid pounds. Might have been able to due a bit better with tighter diet, but I am thrilled overall.

After my follow-up, the next cycle will be 700mg/week test (c&e), plus 250mg/deca. Deca is mainly for joints. Saving tren for third cycle.

Based upon the fact doc will not be looking at LDL/HDL, do you still feel I need 8 weeks??

4 weeks is cutting it close. The deca can be the problem. I'd still wait a little longer....at least 6 weeks. And don't workout for 2 days before the test. Otherwise, your test levels will be elevated a little. And have a good carb day before the test. Starvation increases IGF-1 and test levels.

Nattynomore
04-30-2009, 03:57 PM
Good advice . . . I live in Pittsburgh and will be looking for you at the Master's Nationals in July.

Thanks man.

esplendido
04-30-2009, 04:00 PM
Good advice . . . I live in Pittsburgh and will be looking for you at the Master's Nationals in July.

Thanks man.

I had planned on competing there but I have to be in the Dominican Republic on cigar business then. I've moved my competition to the North Americans the end of August, then the Red River (Oklahoma) the end of October.

Nattynomore
04-30-2009, 04:03 PM
Maybe I will have to head to Cleveland then . . . thanks again.

Nattynomore
04-30-2009, 04:05 PM
By the way . . . my wife could not stop staring at your old avatar (the torso shot) . . . I gotta get on that treadmill . . .

heavyiron
04-30-2009, 04:24 PM
4 week cruise is fine just make sure you get the draw 8 days AFTER your 200mg inject of cyp. I have actually done this twice with only a 2 week cruise off a cycle and my Total T was in the high range. C and E will easily be baseline in 14 days. Deca 21 days. The biggest issue is the 200mg inject in relationship to the draw. Take nothing during that week.

esplendido
04-30-2009, 04:50 PM
For your wife.....

esplendido
04-30-2009, 04:55 PM
4 week cruise is fine just make sure you get the draw 8 days AFTER your 200mg inject of cyp. I have actually done this twice with only a 2 week cruise off a cycle and my Total T was in the high range. C and E will easily be baseline in 14 days. Deca 21 days. The biggest issue is the 200mg inject in relationship to the draw. Take nothing during that week.

I would agree, except I have some personal experience otherwise. I bulk on Test/Deca....and I get HRT. I had bloodwork done (originally, before cycling test was 233+/-) after a 12 week cycle of 600mg cyp/wk and 300mg deca/wk. I had it done 5 weeks after last pinning and my test was 1200. I had the test done again 4 weeks later (or doc was going to reduce HRT) and it was down to 500.

I'm sure it's different person to person, but better safe than sorry.

Nattynomore
04-30-2009, 05:36 PM
Esplendido . . . I actually appreciated the photo too. It helped illustrate to my wife what can be acheived in 40s and 50s with the right training diet and supps . . .

How does this change the dynamic . . . I pin .5cc on tues and fri. After 5-6 weeks, how about a monday draw after skipping the friday shot?

esplendido
04-30-2009, 05:40 PM
Esplendido . . . I actually appreciated the photo too. It helped illustrate to my wife what can be acheived in 40s and 50s with the right training diet and supps . . .

How does this change the dynamic . . . I pin .5cc on tues and fri. After 5-6 weeks, how about a monday draw after skipping the friday shot?

You should be fine. BTW, I'm 51 in my avi....always time to get in shape :)

Nattynomore
04-30-2009, 05:44 PM
Amen brother . . . now that I am "off-cycle" I want to drop the carbs and see if I can drop 15 lbs or so over the next 6 weeks to make room for more muscle. I am only 5'9" and 237. Don't really want to get much above that . . . ever. Would like to compete at the top end of the light-heavies next year this time. Going to the Pittsburgh this weekend to see what the local competition looks like.

esplendido
04-30-2009, 06:32 PM
Let me know what you find out.

heavyiron
04-30-2009, 07:06 PM
I would agree, except I have some personal experience otherwise. I bulk on Test/Deca....and I get HRT. I had bloodwork done (originally, before cycling test was 233+/-) after a 12 week cycle of 600mg cyp/wk and 300mg deca/wk. I had it done 5 weeks after last pinning and my test was 1200. I had the test done again 4 weeks later (or doc was going to reduce HRT) and it was down to 500.

I'm sure it's different person to person, but better safe than sorry.
Ok, let me ask a few questions. Did you use a cruise dose after cycle? Did you do PCT? Were you taking ANY meds or OTC products that have ANY type of hormonal effect? AI's SERM's etc. If so, how did you structure that?

esplendido
04-30-2009, 07:33 PM
Ok, let me ask a few questions. Did you use a cruise dose after cycle? Did you do PCT? Were you taking ANY meds or OTC products that have ANY type of hormonal effect? AI's SERM's etc. If so, how did you structure that?

Yes, a cruise dose. I'm completely shut down and on HRT for life. The clinic I use and my private physician both agreed that I would be on test forever. Again, around that cycle, I was being prescribed Androgel and used it on my cruise at 4 squirts/day. Since then, I'm on test cyp at 300mg/wk. The only OTC I take regularly is Prilosec. On that cycle (my first in 16 years) I used no AI's. Since then, and on subsequent cycles, I use arimidex at 1/2mg/day throughout cycle because the first cycle enlarged my prostate.

heavyiron
05-01-2009, 12:34 PM
Yes, a cruise dose. I'm completely shut down and on HRT for life. The clinic I use and my private physician both agreed that I would be on test forever. Again, around that cycle, I was being prescribed Androgel and used it on my cruise at 4 squirts/day. Since then, I'm on test cyp at 300mg/wk. The only OTC I take regularly is Prilosec. On that cycle (my first in 16 years) I used no AI's. Since then, and on subsequent cycles, I use arimidex at 1/2mg/day throughout cycle because the first cycle enlarged my prostate.
So after the cycle before the draw what was your cruise dose/ester? Or was it just the gel? Did you use adex on the cruise?

esplendido
05-01-2009, 01:11 PM
Gel, no adex until my second cycle. Draw mentioned above was between first and second cycle.

heavyiron
05-01-2009, 01:33 PM
Gel, no adex until my second cycle. Draw mentioned above was between first and second cycle.
Wow, that is a long time for an ester like Cyp to effect Total T. The only thing I can think of is scar tissue delayed the release or you had suspended depots.

esplendido
05-01-2009, 01:41 PM
Could be. This is my second go-round in bodybuilding. First was from 1975-1992 and I started cycling in '81, so scar tissue could be a factor. Ester metabolization could be an issue as well. I've found that I have to use larger doses to get the same results as in my 20's/30's (and my own test is shut down) so there might be some receptor insensitivity.

heavyiron
05-01-2009, 01:56 PM
How often do you pin on cycle and what is your rotation?

esplendido
05-01-2009, 02:01 PM
EOD. Right glute, Left glute, Right shoulder, Left Shoulder. Never more than 2cc in shoulders and 3cc in glutes. I pinned my quads a few times but it hurt like an SOB for days, so I quit that.

HeavyDutyGuy
05-01-2009, 03:12 PM
If you were going to do 700 mg test and 500 deca a week (a hypothetical 300/200 blend which may exist) would you do the full 2.5 cc one day, or do 1.5 cc one day and the other 1 cc like 4 days later?

esplendido
05-01-2009, 04:10 PM
My run-up cycle to my last contest season was:

300mg test eod
100mg tren ace eod
Last 4 weeks - added 100mg Masteron eod
Last 2 weeks - Masteron 100mg/ed
Hgh 4IU/day whole cycle
Halotestin 40mg/day last 4 weeks
Clen and T3 pyramid to 100mcg/75mcg day throughout
Arimidex 1/2mg/day throughout

I mixed the test/tren in same pin on glute days and separated on delt days
Masteron was separate pinning.

Rocco1943
05-01-2009, 06:09 PM
I hear you on the quad thing. Every time I've tied it the pain stayed for several days. Once I ended up with a staph infection in my right quad and had to have it lanced and drained. No fun at all.

Nattynomore
05-04-2009, 11:14 AM
My first couple of quad shots KILLED. Wasn't sure what I was going to do becuase I only had 1" pins (didn't know if they would be long enough for glute). 10 weeks later, I have taken every shot (twice a week) in the quad. Gotten used to it. Sometimes I get some residual pain, but not bad. I think the key is inserting the pin SLOW. I take my time and if I feel any distinct pain, I just pull out and try a fresh spot.

My .02