Take a look ladies.....

[Joshua H]

I have two women doing a follow up contest May 16th. Its 3 weeks after their last show which was April 25th. It was both of the womens first show. This will be their second. Both women have similar stats in terms of weight and height. Liz is 5'4'' Janelle is 5'5". Liz is 123lbs and Janelle is 124lbs. Liz is 14% bodyfat and Janelle is 15.9% bodyfat. The major difference in the two women is age. Liz is 25 and Janelle is 40. This past week went ok but toward the end the older women is really suffering on the diet and in the workouts. She says she feels like hell after about 10am most days and cant concentrate or function very well. She also tends to feel sick in the workouts I have with her. She manages to get through them with me right in here ear pushing her to finish ever set. Now Liz the younger is sailing right through this week, no issues with diet other then normal urges to eat REAL food again. She cracks right through the workouts without a hitch as well. With 13 days left before show day I am concerned Janelle is really going down a not very fun road if this is what week 1 looks like already. She is already paid and registerd for the contest so I am 100% for keeping her in this show to win, nothing less. But I am also looking out for her wellbeing outside of the contest. More so as she is still a rookie to this sport and the last thing I want to do is turn her off to the sport of womens figure by making her suffer through this longer then need be.

Pasted below is the workout, supplement and diet plan I have set out for both of them. They have been on this plan since Monday this week (2 days after the last show)

Let me know if you gals have any suggestions on how to help my client Janelle last the final 13 days.


Training Plan

Day 1&3
Fasted cardio, 30 minutes HIIT of 1 minute 80% max effort, 2 minutes 50% max effort. Then 10 minutes moderate intensity hill cardio, 60% max effort. Do a 5 minute easy-moderate progressive warm up as the first 5 mins.

Day 2
Metabolic Circuit 1 – Superset 4x through:
Cable row or machine row + seated chest press or bench press or bodyweight push up. 45 second rest between each superset. 15-17 reps to failure.

Metabolic Circuit 2- Superset 4x through:
Wide feet leg press (angled or horizontal) + wide smith squats or BB squats. 45 second rest between each superset, 18-20 reps to failure.

Metabolic Circuit 3-Tri-Set 3x through: (no rest, 1 station to the next)
Lateral skater hops (20 jumps), feet up plank hold (1 min), static iso squat with weight (30 seconds), med ball jump squats (x15)

15 minutes incline walking (5.0 or higher) at a fast walk pace (70% max effort)………DONE

Day 4
Metabolic Circuit 1 – Superset 4x through:
Lat pull down or assisted chin + standing shoulder press or machine shoulder press. 45 second rest between each superset. 15-17 reps to failure.

Metabolic Circuit 2- Tri-Set 4x through:
DB or smith lunges + leg extensions + stiff leg DB dead-lift. 45 seconds rest between each superset, 17-20 reps to failure.

Metabolic Circuit 3-Tri-Set 3x through: (no rest, 1 station right to the next)
Med ball trade push-ups (20 push-ups), feet up plank hold (1 min), burpees (12)

15 minutes incline walking (5.0 or higher) at a fast walk pace (70% max effort)…………..DONE

Supplement Plan

Beverly Lean Out: Dose: Take 2 every other meal
Beverly 7-Keto-Lean: Dose: Take 1 serving pre cardio, another pre workout (or 6 hours later)
VPX Meltdown: Dose: Take 2 tabs right before cardio empty stomach
Scivation Xtend: Dose: Take 2 scoop pre cardio and 2 scoops during workouts.

Diet Plan

Meal 1
9 egg whites or 1.25 heaping scoops egg protein
1 Large Ruby Red Grapefruit
1 Brown Rice Cake
Meal 2-3-4 (no added fat pre workout meal)
5 oz cooked chicken, white fish, tuna or turkey (no red meats)
2 cups green beans or broccoli or 3 cups salad greens
12 Almonds, or 1 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
Meal 5
1 scoop casein protein powder
12 Almonds or 1 Tbsp Natural PB
3 g fish oil
Post Workout - weight training days only
(Wait 10 minutes, stretch out, and then consume this)
1 scoop whey protein powder, (10 grams glutamine optional)
1 Large (8-8.5” long) Ripe Banana
Eat again 90 minutes after this.


Thats the plan so far, only trying to maximize leaning out and spare muscle tone and shape that was developed in the 16 weeks prior to the last show. Just polishing up between shows to try and shoot for a 5-10% imrpovement.

[Klaus Urine]

You look very angry in your avatar.

[tammyp]

pics would be helpful. also what is the macro break down of diet.

total cardio is 2 days of hiit and 2 days of 15 min treadmill?

personally, i always thought hiit was a big no no fasted and on a plan w/ almost no carbs. id increase cardio but make it low intensity.

[GirlyMuscle]

HIIT cardio IS a big no-no on low to no carbs. They'll be burning up their muscle. Low intensity is the only way to go.

[sassy69]

Macros please. IMO either go keto or don't bother w/ low carb unless you're planning to CKD. Low carbs, but not low enough to go into ketosis just saps your energy. Further, trying to HIIT cardio on that, not sure I see the point. And again, doing circuit training, a very aerobic activity, again, w/ no carbs but not low enough to go into ketosis. You note that the one person has trouble staying focused - the low carbs, but again not low enough to go into ketosis, will also leave her fuzzy in the brain when she's depleted.

What is the basis of thought for the low carb approach? Were you planning a cheat or a refeed?

[esplendido]

This is an honest question and not a dig. How do you qualify to train these women. I reviewed your training log and you seem to be the rookie here. What experience do you have in dieting down for a competition yourself? What women have you successfully trained and prepped for a show?

It would be best if , rather than asking questions here, you have the ladies sign up on Rx muscle and let them hear directly from the gals who ARE experienced. The women you're training are putting their hopes and their egos in your hands. Think about that.

[Joshua H]

Are you bashing Layne Nortons program bro! The log I keep here is all from what I got from him and have been doing for 13 weeks now. Its worked better then anything esle I have done in the past 4 years. What makes you think that based on my log only which is in fact sound and well structered and producing results......does not qualify me for training these women? They both placed in their last contest, thats proof enough that what ever we did then worked. Both hated the LSD cardio and in fact it stopped working as well the last 2 weeks, they said themseleves they even felt it had gotten to easy and insanely boring to do for 45+ minutes a session.

I am still confused as all hell how you can forecast a persons worth in a matter by looking at their log alone? More so if its one that in no way displays I would be a rookie.

Girlymuscle.....thanks for the suggestions. I am going to drop the girls down to moderate intensity sessions of 40 minutes straight, no intervals, they may hate it and hate me for it, but at least they wont lose muscle and Janelle wont feel like death all day, or at least I hope.

[Klaus Urine]

Are you bashing Layne Nortons program bro!Defamation. You're not using Layne's program, you're using your interpretation of Layne's program.

[Joshua H]

Macros please. IMO either go keto or don't bother w/ low carb unless you're planning to CKD. Low carbs, but not low enough to go into ketosis just saps your energy. Further, trying to HIIT cardio on that, not sure I see the point. And again, doing circuit training, a very aerobic activity, again, w/ no carbs but not low enough to go into ketosis. You note that the one person has trouble staying focused - the low carbs, but again not low enough to go into ketosis, will also leave her fuzzy in the brain when she's depleted.

What is the basis of thought for the low carb approach? Were you planning a cheat or a refeed?


The major basis in going lower carb is that the girls are just coming off a contest where they were carbed up for 2-3 days (relative to figure carb up) and then had Sunday off after the show in which they ate whatever cheat meal or 2 they felt they wanted. That acted as its own acute refeed period which would mute any progressive metabolic slow down that may have been accruing to that point. With only 19 days to go before the next contest (from the time we got back in the gym Monday last week) I dont see there being any reason to worry about losing major amounts of mass or trying to bring out any more shape. (We only have 16 true training days from one show to the next) so I am going for improvements in leaness only. Muscle tone tone will follow. Any muscle we polished up from the first show wont see any difference in 16 days so why worry about doing the same old thing again? I contrasted their training by using the 4 day split aproach with circuit training (giant sets or combo supersets actually) with cardio only days. The workouts are 35-40 minutes long or 60 minutes if you add the 15 mins of cardio after weights. Short and sweet basicly.


The macros for this diet are:
all macros in every food is counted by the way....
~70 grams carbs cardio only days, ~100 grams carbs weight days
~40 grams fats both days
~160 grams protein cardio only days, ~180 grams for weight days

1280kcals cardio days
1480kcals weight days

Recall, they just had 3 theoretical "normal" calorie days leading up to and the day before, of and after the last show. So I see refeeds unwarrented at this point, not that I wont throw in a carb up meal or 2 at some point soon here but just have not seen the need to do so yet. (had both girls been dragging ass then yes that would be a logical sign they needed one).

[Joshua H]

Defamation. You're not using Layne's program, you're using your interpretation of Layne's program.

I dont meen to argue bud but yes I am using his program 100% to the T. I ask him prior to changing or adjusting anything what so ever before doing it and he has given me the go ahead every time. On that note I have only asked him about a higher intensity plyometric drill in place of one he already had me doing. I have his plan on paper in my gym bag every workout.

Dont bash guys like Layne who know what there doing, it aint cool bro.

How do you know if Layne did not design my program to be the way it is? Its not going to look just like the next guys plan because I am not the next guy!

[~gymdiva~]

let's try to keep this one on topic...feel free to challenge him in his journal or whatever thread it is that y'all are referring to...

[Klaus Urine]

I dont meen to argue bud but yes I am using his program 100% to the T.Right. So he designed a program for your two women?



Dont bash guys like Layne who know what there doing, it aint cool bro.
Layne's cool; I'm only bashing you.

[sassy69]

The major basis in going lower carb is that the girls are just coming off a contest where they were carbed up for 2-3 days (relative to figure carb up) and then had Sunday off after the show in which they ate whatever cheat meal or 2 they felt they wanted. That acted as its own acute refeed period which would mute any progressive metabolic slow down that may have been accruing to that point. With only 19 days to go before the next contest (from the time we got back in the gym Monday last week) I dont see there being any reason to worry about losing major amounts of mass or trying to bring out any more shape. (We only have 16 true training days from one show to the next) so I am going for improvements in leaness only. Muscle tone tone will follow. Any muscle we polished up from the first show wont see any difference in 16 days so why worry about doing the same old thing again? I contrasted their training by using the 4 day split aproach with circuit training (giant sets or combo supersets actually) with cardio only days. The workouts are 35-40 minutes long or 60 minutes if you add the 15 mins of cardio after weights. Short and sweet basicly.


The macros for this diet are:
all macros in every food is counted by the way....
~70 grams carbs cardio only days, ~100 grams carbs weight days
~40 grams fats both days
~160 grams protein cardio only days, ~180 grams for weight days

1280kcals cardio days
1480kcals weight days

Recall, they just had 3 theoretical "normal" calorie days leading up to and the day before, of and after the last show. So I see refeeds unwarrented at this point, not that I wont throw in a carb up meal or 2 at some point soon here but just have not seen the need to do so yet. (had both girls been dragging ass then yes that would be a logical sign they needed one).

Ok well never mind then - you were describing this as a very low carb diet & its not really, so never mind the comments about keto.

[tammyp]

what are you exactly looking for from us? for us to tweak? can u post pics of the girls in question? that can tell us alot. its hard to adjust if we dont know what were dealing with.

[The Big Sexy]

Well - it's hard to take a look at what someone is doing "right now" and tell you what to do over the next 13 days... for one, I'm no expert, but I've learned a bit from using my coach and seeing what he's done with his figure girls.

A general thing I've learned - is the prep builds... there is a plan from the start, numbers adjust, change and manipulate as you advance throughout the program. What you were doing in your first week, will not mirror what you are doing in your final 13 days.

So - to see what they are doing now - only shows a part of the story, a part of the journey. It's like you are showing the final 15 minutes of the movie and asking for a critique.

[GirlyMuscle]

Well - it's hard to take a look at what someone is doing "right now" and tell you what to do over the next 13 days... for one, I'm no expert, but I've learned a bit from using my coach and seeing what he's done with his figure girls.

A general thing I've learned - is the prep builds... there is a plan from the start, numbers adjust, change and manipulate as you advance throughout the program. What you were doing in your first week, will not mirror what you are doing in your final 13 days.

So - to see what they are doing now - only shows a part of the story, a part of the journey. It's like you are showing the final 15 minutes of the movie and asking for a critique.
Very good point.

[Joshua H]

Well - it's hard to take a look at what someone is doing "right now" and tell you what to do over the next 13 days... for one, I'm no expert, but I've learned a bit from using my coach and seeing what he's done with his figure girls.

A general thing I've learned - is the prep builds... there is a plan from the start, numbers adjust, change and manipulate as you advance throughout the program. What you were doing in your first week, will not mirror what you are doing in your final 13 days.

So - to see what they are doing now - only shows a part of the story, a part of the journey. It's like you are showing the final 15 minutes of the movie and asking for a critique.

Could not agree more!

But recall, although this is the final 13 days, its not a true final 13, its the 13 or so days between shows which throws a small wrench in the plans compared to the final 13 days of doing the 1st contest, which was preceeded by 13 weeks of prior dieting and training.

[sassy69]

When I've planned to do back-to-back shows (tho I ended up not doing it) the plan was basically to repeat the same diet I had before at the same number of days out from the first show. Its tried & true and no change to food so no worries of eating something that hasn't already been proven to be digestable. Only difference might be water manipulation the last week depending on how close back-to-back the shows are.

[dvsness]

Holy circuit training. ???

[Klaus Urine]

Holy circuit training. ???Haha.

[dvsness]

Haha.

No disrespect to the OP, but I just don't get it. That looks like the workout of a Lucille Roberts trainer, super high rep, 'feel the burn, ladies!'

[wildcat22]

Josh did they do the show in Appleton? I was backstage oiling people what height class were they?

[Joshua H]

No it was not Appleton, it was Madison, INBF sanctioned, not NPC.


It looks like circuit training yes, but if you actually go through the workout its more like supersets and giant sets, a few triplex sets as well. I picked these up out at the Institute of Human Performance last year when Juan Carlos Santana was putting on a seminar on metabolic conditioning. The shit that guy accomplished with several 100 adult women was nothing short of amazing! I tweaked it just a bit to better fit the needs and limits of my clients and the gym, but they seem to like the contrast from the traditonal stuff we were doing before. So the bottom line is that this is not true circuit training despite the titles I use. I have never used standard circuits in my clients programs, not since taking on competitive types anyway. Since the initial post I have adjusted the workouts. What is listed now was what they did the first 3x through the workouts. The 2nd 3x through had longer rest and lower reps. The final 3x through will also take another drop in reps accordingly.

I am using a decending wave summation cycle with the girls during the 21 days bewtween shows, thats the big picture plan anway.

PS...Janelle is feeling much better as of yesterday. Turns out it was some medication she was on that I was not told about that was causing the crappy feelings and loss of intensity. Nothing diet related at all.