Ladies

[Tami Bellon]

What do the gurus recommend for female bodybuilders in and off season? This is from anabolics to estrogen restricting. Thanks!

~T

[marcus300]

What do the gurus recommend for female bodybuilders in and off season? This is from anabolics to estrogen restricting. Thanks!

~T

Well for you Tami, I would suggest to take Future 2-3 times a week:cool:

[Shawn Bellon]

Here here!

[Johnny Phenomenon]

I'm interested to see what you guys suggest. I have ideas and know what a lot of the women who run in my gym are on, but I want to see what the general consensus is.

[holyintellect]

Controlling estrogen in women is a very fine line to walk...it is actually possible to create a chemically induced state of menopause....

holy

[Shawn Bellon]

Hey bro! Glad you made it this way.

[holyintellect]

Thanks! Im entirely looking forward to seeing the direction this forum takes....Ive always been a big believer in the fact that each board takes on its own "personality", based on its members. You guys are in a very good position to make this a postive and unique site...I hope the focus stays strong, and Im glad you are a part of it...

holy

[JamesWebb]

the one thing i always hear is anavar, and other week androgenic orals

[sassy69]

Very broad question - depends on goals, current experience, obviously on time spent already establishing both the muscle maturity as well as the discipline of managing self-medication of your own body, and being very in tune w/ your body as well. Further, how mature you (the female) in educating yourself & making intelligent decisions about self-medicating. Lots of guys will "put their gf on" some compound, but its the lady herself who has to deal w/ the effects. All the best intentions in the world won't make an ester clear faster.

[MUSCLEMUFFINS TEAM]

Anavar is the way to go, mild side effects, as far as estrogen, tamoxifin citrate (nolvadex) at 10mg a day up until about 3 weeks up to comp then up it to 20 or even 30mg a day, will help striate the leags and glutes which are usually last to cut up in women!! if you want extra size, injectable primobolan is amazing at maybe 50mg a week, would give you quality muscle and cut you up!!

[sassy69]

I'll throw out a few basic ones:

For newb / figure / "don't want to get big":
on-season: 10 mg var ED 12-16 weeks, last 4 weeks 20 mg proviron + 20 mg nolvadex - split all 1/2 am , 1/2 pm, you can stop the proviron & var cold after your show, drop the nolva in 1/2 in 2 day intervals
-expected results: good muscle retention (note w/ the diet, ability to gain is limited), good recovery, at low bodyfat, promotes leaning out
-expected sides: interrupted period, acne

off-season: 10 mg var ED 12-16 weeks, make sure your diet is also geared towards bulking. If you are > 12% bf expect to gain mass but also appear more "thick" than lean & cut up.
- expected gains: diet will drive this, var provides some quality muscle gain but not "hyuge", no water retention, good gains retention, supports recovery, very low & predictable sides.
- expected sides: interrupted period, acne

Secondary option is 10 mg oral winstrol ED .. can be more aggressive w/ the sides, depends on the person. No water retention, possible joint pain due to dryness promoted by winstrol, acne, possible voice cracking, possible hairloss
Other option might be oral turinabol - similar to anavar, slower but still quality gains.

More aggressive / experienced / BB-oriented:
on season: 50-100 mg inject primo E5D + 10 mg var ED - 12 -16 weeks. 20 mg nolva + 25 mg proviron ED (1/2 am , 1/2 pm) last 4-8 weeks.
- expected results: limited size gain due to diet, but good muscle retention, no water retention, supports recovery. Proviron & nolva help address estrogenic fat. Note proviron can be androgenic but Anabolics 200x has recommended this combination for women for years. Recommend slow ramp down on the nolva while estrogen kicks back in.
- expected sides: interrupted period, some hairloss, some voice cracking, acne/bacne,m possible increase in blood pressure

off season: 50-100 mg EQ - 10-12 weeks, assumes diet is designed for bulking.
- expected gains: needs about 5 weeks to "show" itself, slow gain, decent gains maintenance, no water retention, some report increase in appetite
- expected sides: interrrupted period, acne/bacne, possible voice cracking / deepening, some hairloss, possible increase in blood pressure

Secondary options / more aggressive: NPP + Test Prop (off season --- this cycle does promote some water retention so not the best choice for competition)

*Note - all of these cycles are not or very minimally aromatizing so aggressive AIs like adex are not needed.

[sassy69]

Note since we're talking about BB's we are assuming diets & training are already tight, consistent & producing results w/ a solid base of natural muscle already built.

[Aaron Singerman]

Great advice, as usual Sassy!

[Lee Penman]

Not to be sexist (who me?) but most men would say 10mg of anavar for six weeks and possibly clen. The truth is closer to what Sassy posted. Although at the professional level amounts and substances used escalate. Usually women don't need to waste time with Proviron as Nolvadex works more effectively. Most women do however stick to Primo, Deca and EQ for injectables. Anavar is still favored over Winstrol and T Bal (Turanabol) is beginning to make a comeback. Test Prop is not uncommon at the top level or by the extremely adventurous!

[sassy69]

Not to be sexist (who me?) but most men would say 10mg of anavar for six weeks and possibly clen. The truth is closer to what Sassy posted. Although at the professional level amounts and substances used escalate. Usually women don't need to waste time with Proviron as Nolvadex works more effectively. Most women do however stick to Primo, Deca and EQ for injectables. Anavar is still favored over Winstrol and T Bal (Turanabol) is beginning to make a comeback. Test Prop is not uncommon at the top level or by the extremely adventurous!

Deca or NPP?

[JustLuke]

good info on the stacks sassy! What do women do in terms of estrogen/progestin from birth control? Pre-contest and off season?

[sassy69]

good info on the stacks sassy! What do women do in terms of estrogen/progestin from birth control? Pre-contest and off season?

It depends on the person, but most, just to keep it simple and reduce the amount of hormone freakout, they just go off the B/C during prep, but need to pay attention to using a backup method for birth control during that time. Some are on very low dose estro/progest dose b/c & the impact would be very small regardless. And then they are able to also avoid upsets in their hormone levels by not changing anything. Those who plan to stay in competition for a while may opt to go w/ a non-hormonal method like a copper IUD, or an IUC like the Mirena which only has a small amount of time-released progesterone to help minimize bleeding, which is not uncommon w/ the copper IUD.

Off-season, they are best off not messing w/their hormones. Estrogen is there for a reason and to stop it for short periods of time is not bad, but extended periods of time can bring on early menopause, including all the fun sides like dry skin, hairloss, hot flashes, etc. I don't know that its clear exactly what is considered "too long" such that you experience this, but the various sources that discuss this, e.g. Anabolics 200x, Dave, etc. say to keep use of "anti-estrogens" (nolvadex) to 8 weeks or less. This is a protocol I'd only recommend for a specific target date. Not for maintenance and not for off-season. Estrogen is useful in muscle building anyway. And IMO the less continuous hormonal minipulation you do, the better off you are. Let your body do what it is designed to do. Diet, cardio & training will allow it to do that optimally & w/ no induced sides.

[JustLuke]

Thanks for the information. I have been wondering this for a long time. I felt dumb creating a thread on it.

[Lee Penman]

Deca or NPP?
NPP would be prefered due to the bloat associated with Deca but both are used. You can also get a compound that has three types of Nandro in one shot.

[Jacquester]

off season: 50-100 mg EQ - 10-12 weeks,

most of what I've read says 4-6 wks max. is this just being conservative? Would you expect the same side with Deca (to EQ)?

[sassy69]

off season: 50-100 mg EQ - 10-12 weeks,

most of what I've read says 4-6 wks max. is this just being conservative? Would you expect the same side with Deca (to EQ)?

Is this for a guy or a girl? It takes like 5 weeks just to "feel" it. Women can run stuff a lot longer than guys because they don't have to deal w/ the PCT issues. Deca is a different deal. It has a significantly longer detection time, meaning the sides will remain active for nearly 3-4x longer.

[Jacquester]

This is for a girl. She just finished 4 weeks of deca @ 50mg/wk and tolerated it well. A little swelling of the clitorus was the only real side issue. This was her first real cycle and visually there is a good improvement. I got my info of 4-6wks from Anabolics by Llwellyn. He seems to be very conservative with the ladies.

[sassy69]

This is for a girl. She just finished 4 weeks of deca @ 50mg/wk and tolerated it well. A little swelling of the clitorus was the only real side issue. This was her first real cycle and visually there is a good improvement. I got my info of 4-6wks from Anabolics by Llwellyn. He seems to be very conservative with the ladies.

Really all I can say is that its very hard to compare cycles, and a lot of it depends on what you want out of it & how you tolerate it. Is the plan just to go that 4 weeks w/ deca? If it worked fine, then fantastic. I know a handful of women who like deca, but just not many, primarily because of the very long clearing time. It also depends on what they consider acceptable sides and what they are looking to get out of it. I probably wouldn't have recommended deca as a first cycle, but a lot of this is just personal experiment, which is why I make a big deal out of the women doing the research before they jump in, and then that they understand that the sides are a crapshoot & they are prepared to deal w/ it. If she would've gotten some rough sides from deca, she'd be potentially stuck w/ them for several months. I think the Anabolics books give good basic guidance so its not a bad place to start.

[mr vic]

Any advice on fat burning products for ladies, T3 ? yes or no, what is the most effective ,

[sassy69]

Any advice on fat burning products for ladies, T3 ? yes or no, what is the most effective ,

First relevant question is what does the diet & training look like? I'd go w/ some OTC thermo before pushing controlled substances for someone w/ no solid history of diet & training first.

[Jacquester]

Really all I can say is that its very hard to compare cycles, and a lot of it depends on what you want out of it & how you tolerate it. Is the plan just to go that 4 weeks w/ deca? If it worked fine, then fantastic. I know a handful of women who like deca, but just not many, primarily because of the very long clearing time. It also depends on what they consider acceptable sides and what they are looking to get out of it. I probably wouldn't have recommended deca as a first cycle, but a lot of this is just personal experiment, which is why I make a big deal out of the women doing the research before they jump in, and then that they understand that the sides are a crapshoot & they are prepared to deal w/ it. If she would've gotten some rough sides from deca, she'd be potentially stuck w/ them for several months. I think the Anabolics books give good basic guidance so its not a bad place to start.
The plan is to be off 4 wks and decide if she wants to do another. She only has access to deca and test-cip (thought test-cip would be a bad idea) and nova. She is doing a bb contest in April and has made good progress dropping 1/2% bf/wk and gaining 3lbs lbm in the 4wks. The contest plan was to drop the deca 2wks out and bring in the nova 2-3wks out. Your info on nova was good, the books don't give much info for females. Thanks for the insight.

[mr vic]

First relevant question is what does the diet & training look like? I'd go w/ some OTC thermo before pushing controlled substances for someone w/ no solid history of diet & training first.

I have been a trainer since before it had a name, competed yearly since 1987, and consider myself very competent,this particular individuals Training and diet are spot on, I am not sure i would even suggest products to her, she has used clen but it does not agree with her, i was just after some advice on what ladies find useful,and if in fact the female thyroid in your opinion is as resilient as mens, who by the way i have seen abuse thyroid horrendously and never have i seen 1 lissue once thyroid is ceased, as for the OTC stuff except for lipoyze imo they are pretty useless,and over priced, Our laws in Australia are some what different to yours in the USA so as far as being controlled substances ,some things are not as controlled as others and there is allowances for personal use thanks for your response

[Reloaded]

women are so discreet with their drug use, I hate it !

[Johnny Phenomenon]

women are so discreet with their drug use, I hate it !

I know, half the time I don't care about what guys take, bc that is generally common knowledge. The female side is so much more complex, and much more interesting.



Oh ya, LOL @ Future's sub title.

[sassy69]

The plan is to be off 4 wks and decide if she wants to do another. She only has access to deca and test-cip (thought test-cip would be a bad idea) and nova. She is doing a bb contest in April and has made good progress dropping 1/2% bf/wk and gaining 3lbs lbm in the 4wks. The contest plan was to drop the deca 2wks out and bring in the nova 2-3wks out. Your info on nova was good, the books don't give much info for females. Thanks for the insight.


How is this going? Its April now. Show time?

[sassy69]

I have been a trainer since before it had a name, competed yearly since 1987, and consider myself very competent,this particular individuals Training and diet are spot on, I am not sure i would even suggest products to her, she has used clen but it does not agree with her, i was just after some advice on what ladies find useful,and if in fact the female thyroid in your opinion is as resilient as mens, who by the way i have seen abuse thyroid horrendously and never have i seen 1 lissue once thyroid is ceased, as for the OTC stuff except for lipoyze imo they are pretty useless,and over priced, Our laws in Australia are some what different to yours in the USA so as far as being controlled substances ,some things are not as controlled as others and there is allowances for personal use thanks for your response

This is way after the last post, but the question was about t3. Personally I wouldn't recommend use of t3 w/o an AAS because of the catabolic nature of it. Its one thing want to drop the fat, but the muscle goes too. People combine it w/ clen because clen is supposed to be anti-catabolic. I also don't think t3 is necessarily a great approach to achieving a 'maintenance body' because once off your thyroid will go back to normal and your body will respond in the same way. That may be acceptable, but then you still want to watch the muscle loss.

[Bob Smith Jr.]

is gh use common among women? and at what dose? 1-2iu ?

[Lee Penman]

women are so discreet with their drug use, I hate it !
I KNOW..but my aim is to change all that! So stay tuned to RX, where the big people dwell and TELL!

[sassy69]

is gh use common among women? and at what dose? 1-2iu ?


GH is another one of those things that doesn't sound like .. OMG .. STEROIDS! It isn't a steroid but it is still a "chemical enhancement". IMO it is probably reasonably common and, yes at those doses. Women are often looking for the "fat burning" aspects of it - it isn't a "fat burner" per se, but it supplements your own natural GH production to promote efficient fat burning and all those other natural functions that run optimally at the peak of your youth. It is also often thrown in as part of a contest prep cycle w/ something like anavar to enhance the cycle as well as improve recovery.

[-BLP-]

I'm interested to see what you guys suggest. I have ideas and know what a lot of the women who run in my gym are on, but I want to see what the general consensus is.

1ui hgh pharmagrade / 2 ui for pre contest / off season; primo 150mg week wino 10mg 3-5 weeks cycle / prep drug 10 mg var - t3 12.5mg - clen 40mcg - winject 10mg micronized winstrol with insulin needles - eca - primo - contest day 1 tren shot

And that if she want the feminine frame if not testosterone make muscle women in no time low dosage obviously at higher dosage they become a but psycho LOL

[Johnny Phenomenon]

1ui hgh pharmagrade / 2 ui for pre contest / off season; primo 150mg week wino 10mg 3-5 weeks cycle / prep drug 10 mg var - t3 12.5mg - clen 40mcg - winject 10mg micronized winstrol with insulin needles - eca - primo - contest day 1 tren shot

And that if she want the feminine frame if not testosterone make muscle women in no time low dosage obviously at higher dosage they become a but psycho LOL

Thanks bro. I'll see you in strat. I started my cycle 5 weeks ago at 190, I'm up to 205. You gotta tell me what you think. I wanna do a year end level 1 show.

[heavyiron]

What do the gurus recommend for female bodybuilders in and off season? This is from anabolics to estrogen restricting. Thanks!

~T
I have seen everything from anavar to tren. I think it really depends on what risks you are willing to take as a female.