Real Food VS. Shakes When Dieting

[Jnova7723]

What are your opinions on how whole food vs. shakes affects the look of the body during dieting? I've heard that shakes makes you look softer when getting ready for a show. Any experience with this?

J

[RDFinders]

i do shakes up to the 1-2 weeks sometimes up the week of the show. i am vegetarian, so i keep my shakes in as they are still convenient for me during the dieting process. i didn't notice any difference in not having them vs. having them in my physique. i also used them the last time i sodium depleted.

[APK]

I know that I hold more water weight when I eat regular meals instead of shakes

[SpeedoGuido]

I find solid food more satisfying when dieting. I only use shakes when I can't get a meal in.

[poiuyt]

Solid foods have a higher thermogenic effect: You actually burn more calories just digesting them. This would not be true with shakes as they are liquid.

The difference is not massive but it could give you an edge over 12 weeks dieting.

["Rodz"]

I like using shakes when i dont feel like eating, sometimes just looking at another meal makes me sick

[RDFinders]

I like using shakes when i dont feel like eating, sometimes just looking at another meal makes me sick

that can happen in an instant when prepping for a show and all you think about is your next meal!

[myway]

I kinda live on tuna packs. Quick, easy. Needtobuildmuscle.com has some good bars,2.

[dvsness]

What are your opinions on how whole food vs. shakes affects the look of the body during dieting? I've heard that shakes makes you look softer when getting ready for a show. Any experience with this?

J

That makes no sense. Unless you have an allergy to the sweetener or flavoring (causing water retention), whey would make you appear no 'softer' than any other protein source. Regardless, the goal of prepping is not losing water, it's losing fat. If you have an issue with sucralose, etc, then avoid it in the last week. If not, do your thing.

[Jeffatron]

I eat 7 meals when cutting, 5 of which are solid, 2 are shakes.

Solid meals keep you fuller for longer and they have a higher thermogenic effect then the shakes. I also believe that the protein uptake from solid protein sources like chicken and beef is greater then that from a whey shake due to the speed with which a shake runs through your body.

[neofarq]

A shake is basically pre-digested, whole food is not, hence your body does have to do more work in digesting the whole food and converting it to energy. At about 4 weeks out I always drop shakes completely, I feel much drier and grainy when I do.

Sidenote: There is a reason they are called "Supplements", they are meant to "supplement" your diet, not replace entire meals unless absolutely need due to convenience.

[GottaGetLean]

dropping shakes 5days out before a show is more then enuff time..

[Jeffatron]

Sidenote: There is a reason they are called "Supplements", they are meant to "supplement" your diet, not replace entire meals unless absolutely need due to convenience.

Agreed! I think too many people rely on shakes for large amounts of their daily protein intake. Shakes, as you say above, are a supplement, great for PWO and when it's inconvenient to eat a meal, but don't rely on them all the time.

[figurebre]

You need a variety of protein sources for a successful diet.. Shakes are good to incorporate, not dominate. If you cut them out a few weeks from a show you will prevent any water retention or bloating that may be associated with them.

[Legend]

That makes no sense. Unless you have an allergy to the sweetener or flavoring (causing water retention), whey would make you appear no 'softer' than any other protein source. Regardless, the goal of prepping is not losing water, it's losing fat. If you have an issue with sucralose, etc, then avoid it in the last week. If not, do your thing.

Agreed!!

[Strikerrjones]

I eat 7 meals when cutting, 5 of which are solid, 2 are shakes.

Solid meals keep you fuller for longer and they have a higher thermogenic effect then the shakes. I also believe that the protein uptake from solid protein sources like chicken and beef is greater then that from a whey shake due to the speed with which a shake runs through your body.

How is protein uptake higher for chicken or beef than for whey? Whey protein is 100% bioavailable.

[Shariff Abel]

I get sick by taking only shakes . Real food is good and your body needs it . taking chemical powder all day Not a good idea.

[Frosty]

How is protein uptake higher for chicken or beef than for whey? Whey protein is 100% bioavailable.

I think he may be referring to the speed of the digestion of whey and gluconeogenesis to deal with protein above the metabolic needs and protein synthesis.

[neofarq]

Your going to burn more calories eating whole foods and they will keep you satiated for much longer than a shake.

PWO is the only time I wld reccommend a shake, although off season when it's a hot day out a big ass chocolate whey shake w milk, peanut butter all blended up w a bunch of ice cubes is pretty hard to resist!!!!!!!!

[Strikerrjones]

Your going to burn more calories eating whole foods and they will keep you satiated for much longer than a shake.

PWO is the only time I wld reccommend a shake, although off season when it's a hot day out a big ass chocolate whey shake w milk, peanut butter all blended up w a bunch of ice cubes is pretty hard to resist!!!!!!!!

Won't you be taking in more calories with whole foods too, though? I'm having a really hard time understanding why your body would care if it's getting half it's protein from shakes or all of it from whole food.

[Strikerrjones]

A post by Layne Norton on cutting out protein shakes pre-contest:

Muscular Development Forums

It made me giggle a little.

[DAVIDHARDY]

Won't you be taking in more calories with whole foods too, though? I'm having a really hard time understanding why your body would care if it's getting half it's protein from shakes or all of it from whole food.


His logic is this:

The body has to break down whole food, thus it burns calories doing so, where as the whey is pretty much broken down already(BCAA's being the only thing that I can think of that are broken down any further). The downfall of this is that your body only absorbs so much protein from whole food sources. I read somewhere and am not spot on with these numbers, but I believe it's 70% of chicken and beef, 80% of fish and about 90% from eggs, but Whey is pretty much all absorbed. The argument can be made equally for both sides, but I believe that both are very useful in a diet of any kind. Powders are extremly convenient/cheap/digestable. Whole foods satisfy more and have certian nutritional benefits depending on which source is the topic at hand.

[neofarq]

Hypothetical situation:
You mix up a shake and drink it down. The body doesn't have to do much work to turn grind it up and turn it into a liquid to digest because it already is one.
You eat a chicken breast.... chew, swallow then your body physically has to break it down into a liquid and then it can extract the nutrients from it.
With the shakes you miss an entire phase of digestion.
25g of protein from a Shake or 25 grams of protein from say tilapia or egg whites is still going to be 100 calories either way....
See what u look like when dieting with three Kiwi Strawberry bananna or whatever artificial bullshit flavor shake u like. Then replace that amount of protein with some tilapia or lean poultry. I gaurantee that with the fish and chicken you will be grainier and drier than on the shakes.
Go read the ingredients on the back of a jug of optimum whey.......... now go grab a bag of tilapia filets at costco and read the ingredients on that......... get my point...... Quality in = Quality out!!

[Strikerrjones]

Hypothetical situation:
You mix up a shake and drink it down. The body doesn't have to do much work to turn grind it up and turn it into a liquid to digest because it already is one.
You eat a chicken breast.... chew, swallow then your body physically has to break it down into a liquid and then it can extract the nutrients from it.
With the shakes you miss an entire phase of digestion.
25g of protein from a Shake or 25 grams of protein from say tilapia or egg whites is still going to be 100 calories either way....
See what u look like when dieting with three Kiwi Strawberry bananna or whatever artificial bullshit flavor shake u like. Then replace that amount of protein with some tilapia or lean poultry. I gaurantee that with the fish and chicken you will be grainier and drier than on the shakes.
Go read the ingredients on the back of a jug of optimum whey.......... now go grab a bag of tilapia filets at costco and read the ingredients on that......... get my point...... Quality in = Quality out!!

There's no logic at all in the bold part. All you're saying is that you're guaranteeing something without using any sort of science or real world evidence to back it up. Furthermore, Layne Norton, a PhD candidate in protein synthesis, disagrees with what you're saying.

I just don't see any evidence to convince me that chicken protein is somehow better for dieting than whey protein. I'm not saying that you're definitely wrong, but if somebody (::cough:: Frosty ::cough::) could provide a real explanation it would be nice.

[Strikerrjones]

His logic is this:

The body has to break down whole food, thus it burns calories doing so, where as the whey is pretty much broken down already(BCAA's being the only thing that I can think of that are broken down any further). The downfall of this is that your body only absorbs so much protein from whole food sources. I read somewhere and am not spot on with these numbers, but I believe it's 70% of chicken and beef, 80% of fish and about 90% from eggs, but Whey is pretty much all absorbed. The argument can be made equally for both sides, but I believe that both are very useful in a diet of any kind. Powders are extremly convenient/cheap/digestable. Whole foods satisfy more and have certian nutritional benefits depending on which source is the topic at hand.

Whoops, totally ignored this post. This makes more sense.

[DAVIDHARDY]

Hypothetical situation:
You mix up a shake and drink it down. The body doesn't have to do much work to turn grind it up and turn it into a liquid to digest because it already is one.
You eat a chicken breast.... chew, swallow then your body physically has to break it down into a liquid and then it can extract the nutrients from it.
With the shakes you miss an entire phase of digestion.
25g of protein from a Shake or 25 grams of protein from say tilapia or egg whites is still going to be 100 calories either way....
See what u look like when dieting with three Kiwi Strawberry bananna or whatever artificial bullshit flavor shake u like. Then replace that amount of protein with some tilapia or lean poultry. I gaurantee that with the fish and chicken you will be grainier and drier than on the shakes.
Go read the ingredients on the back of a jug of optimum whey.......... now go grab a bag of tilapia filets at costco and read the ingredients on that......... get my point...... Quality in = Quality out!!

Dave said that he pretty much lived off of shakes while competing...he didn't lack dryness, but with you around, he might have gotten that pro card...


There's no logic at all in the bold part. All you're saying is that you're guaranteeing something without using any sort of science or real world evidence to back it up. Furthermore, Layne Norton, a PhD candidate in protein synthesis, disagrees with what you're saying.

I just don't see any evidence to convince me that chicken protein is somehow better for dieting than whey protein. I'm not saying that you're definitely wrong, but if somebody (::cough:: Frosty ::cough::) could provide a real explanation it would be nice.

Dude, get with the program, pure speculation is all that is needed for evidence lol.


Whoops, totally ignored this post. This makes more sense.


Glad I could help.

[Frosty]

I just don't see any evidence to convince me that chicken protein is somehow better for dieting than whey protein. I'm not saying that you're definitely wrong, but if somebody (::cough:: Frosty ::cough::) could provide a real explanation it would be nice.

All I can say from my experience is if I'm getting ready for a show, I'm going to 100% protein shakes after my carb load. I drop a lot of water and look great and my waist gets TINY. That's what *I've* seen in myself.

Give it a shot. Hell it's pretty easy to see within a short time if you're getting watery or not if you went to just protein shakes for a week.

I totally encourage people to try new things and make sure that it's the ONLY change you make and note the results. You'll end up with a long list of shit that doesn't work and with a shorter list of things that definitely work for you :)

[The Ultimate Warrior]

Hypothetical situation:
You mix up a shake and drink it down. The body doesn't have to do much work to turn grind it up and turn it into a liquid to digest because it already is one.
You eat a chicken breast.... chew, swallow then your body physically has to break it down into a liquid and then it can extract the nutrients from it.
With the shakes you miss an entire phase of digestion.
25g of protein from a Shake or 25 grams of protein from say tilapia or egg whites is still going to be 100 calories either way....
See what u look like when dieting with three Kiwi Strawberry bananna or whatever artificial bullshit flavor shake u like. Then replace that amount of protein with some tilapia or lean poultry. I gaurantee that with the fish and chicken you will be grainier and drier than on the shakes.
Go read the ingredients on the back of a jug of optimum whey.......... now go grab a bag of tilapia filets at costco and read the ingredients on that......... get my point...... Quality in = Quality out!!


ha...you consider frozen tilapia from Costco quality....NOW THATS FUNNY!

[neofarq]

Have u ate the frozen tilapia from costco? It's the same as the fresh stuff just individually flash frozen and wrapped in plastic... Actually tastes much heartier than the fresh stuff also......

How would it be nutritionally any different than the fresh stuff????

It may have a little more water but that's about it........

Watch a cutler DVD all the fish that guy eats is the frozen stuff from Costco........

Last time I checked when something is frozen the nutritional value doesn't change........

[The Big Sexy]

I stick with solid foods when I am prepping. I might have one shake. I know several big names, including Hany, endorse this philosophy. Personally, I feel my muscles are more full, I feel more energy, and I feel like I maintain muscle much better. I guess if you are sauced out of your mind, you might not notice this as much - but if you are sauced out of your mind, I would think it would even benefit you more.

[neofarq]

I stick with solid foods when I am prepping. I might have one shake. I know several big names, including Hany, endorse this philosophy. Personally, I feel my muscles are more full, I feel more energy, and I feel like I maintain muscle much better. I guess if you are sauced out of your mind, you might not notice this as much - but if you are sauced out of your mind, I would think it would even benefit you more.


Hany did do Jay's diet and once he really started dieting down (about 12 weeks out) he basically switched over entirely to whole foods.

Proof is in the pudding!!! Cutler 2009 Mr. O

[FoodFreak]

whole foods are more thermogenic (especially when referring to food vs protein powder) and they also will be less vulnerable to glucogenesis - but this is circumstantial. if whey isolate for instance was taken on its own, it would result in a much higher insulin spike than if steak or chicken were eaten

[DAVIDHARDY]

whole foods are more thermogenic (especially when referring to food vs protein powder) and they also will be less vulnerable to glucogenesis - but this is circumstantial. if whey isolate for instance was taken on its own, it would result in a much higher insulin spike than if steak or chicken were eaten


I prefer whole foods, but I think that if you eat fat with a shake it slows it down wnough to put a damper on glucogenesis.

[DAVIDHARDY]

Hany did do Jay's diet and once he really started dieting down (about 12 weeks out) he basically switched over entirely to whole foods.

Proof is in the pudding!!! Cutler 2009 Mr. O


Come on now, you know he didn't have any freakin pudding!