What happens if someone does steroids but doesn't work out, eat good or do cardio?

[SadFatty]

What would the effect be? Nothing at all or would they still gain some muscle?

[GirlyMuscle]

I don't know about men but for a woman I doubt you'd grow any muscle at all. Muscle growth comes from training and the proper nutrition. All AAS does is speed recovery.

[RDFinders]

you gain weight, but it isn't the weight gain you want. can you say "fat" like you have never known and the dangest time trying to get it off.

[sassy69]

You get thick & gain weight. Depending on the cycle you may be incurring water retention just from the presence of the steroid in your system (i.e. aromatization). Not to mention increased stress to your system, cholesterol increase, high blood pressure, etc.

A perfect illustration is guys who start a cycle a month before spring break so they'll be all buff on the beach in Panama City. They shoot up, go to the gym & pose a lot, drink beer all weekend and then wonder why they're nice & puffy w/ moon face.

[Jimmy Hendrix]

would a woman taking 2mg of winstrol 2x per day have increased weight gain if she didn't train hard

[ny_inkslinger]

You just waste your money thats about it...

[Ninja Loco]

you gain weight, but it isn't the weight gain you want. can you say "fat" like you have never known and the dangest time trying to get it off.Exactly. In a very brief and "plain english" nutshell, anabolic steroids help your body use more of the food you eat. That's why I always ask morons that think steroids are magic if they think they can just shoot up and POOF, be built. Because of the fact that steroids help your body use more of the foods you eat, it's imperative to use a good, clean diet when using them AND work your ass off twice as hard in the gym. OR, as RD said, the weight you gain wont be the type you want. You see it every day in most gyms.....I see it in mine. I will safely say that almost 80% of the members in my main gym use steroids. But they look soft and fat, not round and muscular. Some of them just get to be bigger versions of the fat guy they were before.

But different steroids have different grades of anabolic properties. Some, like winstrol, wont be as anabolic as Testosterone. If someone did something like that and didnt work out and eat a good diet, I imagine that the least of their problems would be troublesome joints. If someone did trenbolone, Id say they would get severely fat, have night sweats, caugh, and be very irritable.

[GrowthGifted]

What would the effect be? Nothing at all or would they still gain some muscle?

Most likely that individual suffers from heavy mental retardation OR it's under a hormone replacement therapy

[SadFatty]

Most likely that individual suffers from heavy mental retardation OR it's under a hormone replacement therapy
Why don't you take this answer to the pit shithead. I'm sure there are many people that do steroids and don't realize they need to eat good and train good for best results. I was just curious what would happen to those type of individuals.

Get off your high horse. Everybody needs to start somewhere.

[Scott Stevenson]

1: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. (javascript:AL_get(this,%20'jour',%20'Am%20J%20Phy siol%20Endocrinol%20Metab.');) 2001 Dec;281(6):E1172-81.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corehtml/query/egifs/http:--highwire.stanford.edu-icons-externalservices-pubmed-free-ajpendo-free.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3051&itool=AbstractPlus-def&uid=11701431&db=pubmed&url=http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=11701431) Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu11701431);)
Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men.

Bhasin S (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Bhasin%20S%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Woodhouse L (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Woodhouse%20L%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Casaburi R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Casaburi%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Singh AB (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Singh%20AB%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Bhasin D (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Bhasin%20D%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Berman N (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Berman%20N%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Chen X (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Chen%20X%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Yarasheski KE (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Yarasheski%20KE%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Magliano L (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Magliano%20L%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Dzekov C (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Dzekov%20C%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Dzekov J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Dzekov%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Bross R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Bross%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Phillips J (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Phillips%20J%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Sinha-Hikim I (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Sinha-Hikim%20I%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Shen R (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Shen%20R%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Storer TW (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Storer%20TW%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, CA 90059, USA. [email protected]
Testosterone increases muscle mass and strength and regulates other physiological processes, but we do not know whether testosterone effects are dose dependent and whether dose requirements for maintaining various androgen-dependent processes are similar. To determine the effects of graded doses of testosterone on body composition, muscle size, strength, power, sexual and cognitive functions, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), plasma lipids, hemoglobin, and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.

------------

-S

[antonbrn]

When I was in high school, I worked at a grocery store. My boss had been put on some kind of steroid by his doctor and he didn't workout at all that I knew of. He gained alot of weight, and fat! The longer he stayed on them, the fatter he got.

[RDFinders]

Exactly. In a very brief and "plain english" nutshell, anabolic steroids help your body use more of the food you eat. That's why I always ask morons that think steroids are magic if they think they can just shoot up and POOF, be built. Because of the fact that steroids help your body use more of the foods you eat, it's imperative to use a good, clean diet when using them AND work your ass off twice as hard in the gym. OR, as RD said, the weight you gain wont be the type you want. You see it every day in most gyms.....I see it in mine. I will safely say that almost 80% of the members in my main gym use steroids. But they look soft and fat, not round and muscular. Some of them just get to be bigger versions of the fat guy they were before.

But different steroids have different grades of anabolic properties. Some, like winstrol, wont be as anabolic as Testosterone. If someone did something like that and didnt work out and eat a good diet, I imagine that the least of their problems would be troublesome joints. If someone did trenbolone, Id say they would get severely fat, have night sweats, caugh, and be very irritable.
thanks for the compliment. i used to see it all the time, esp with predinisone. weight gain was ridiculous. i always wondered why these people didn't workout at least while they were on it. i can see some body fat decrease with using testosterone, but it would be neglible at best. none of the drugs are of any benefit if you are not working out intensely and eating well.

[The Big Sexy]

Why don't you take this answer to the pit shithead. I'm sure there are many people that do steroids and don't realize they need to eat good and train good for best results. I was just curious what would happen to those type of individuals.

Get off your high horse. Everybody needs to start somewhere.

I think what he was getting at was that if someone were taking steroids for the purpose of gaining muscle, getting harder and losing fat... and took no further actions (which, include resistance and cardiovascular training and proper nutrition) to adequately put one in the best state to further these goals... they would be a very, very naive and ignorant person.

Now, I do remember my Mom was given a cream once when I was a kid - she put about 30lbs on, and complained about excessive hair. Once she got off it - the weight came off too. (I'm assuming the hair ??) She didn't workout - so, I can see in this instance where someone might not workout or train - because the intended purpose wasn't to gain muscle/lose fat.

[Caleb56]

The person would get dumber.:beerbang:
Well once he realized he just wasted his money.

[Sistersteel]

Why don't you take this answer to the pit shithead. I'm sure there are many people that do steroids and don't realize they need to eat good and train good for best results. I was just curious what would happen to those type of individuals.

Get off your high horse. Everybody needs to start somewhere.

I don't think he deserved that SadFatty.

And yes, you are right, everybody starts somewhere. But to take a blind leap without properly educating yourself on what you are getting yourself into is the epitome of ignorance. It also displays a lack of responsible behavior.

AAS use is a privilege, not a right.


If you do not train and eat the way you should to maximize the benefits of AAS use, you will end up a fatter version of what you already are.

SS

[sassy69]

thanks for the compliment. i used to see it all the time, esp with predinisone. weight gain was ridiculous. i always wondered why these people didn't workout at least while they were on it. i can see some body fat decrease with using testosterone, but it would be neglible at best. none of the drugs are of any benefit if you are not working out intensely and eating well.

Another detail to qualify when we're talking about "steroids", there are anabolic androgenic steroids (aka AAS) and also corticosteroids like your standard cortisone shot, as well as prednisone, often used for treatment of various diseases, not the least of which is cancer.

E.g. from http://vasculitis.med.jhu.edu/treatments/prednisone.html
Prednisone is a corticosteroid. In contrast to anabolic steroids (used by “bodybuilders”), corticosteroids are used in inflammatory conditions for their anti–inflammatory effects. They have a rapid onset of action, and profoundly affect many parts of the immune system as well as most other body systems. Corticosteroids are a cornerstone of treating most types of vasculitis, and are often used in combination with other immunosuppressive medications.

It is particularly notorious for causing fat & water retention.

[GeminiJedi]

Weight gain from corticos can be INSANE. I see it all the time at work (and survived a nice round of that myself while also discovering that I have an allergy to them >.< ) They are different from AAS, and like Sassy said, they're treating some sort of medical condition: most likely the person on them is too sick to work out.

[Stavman]

Why don't you take this answer to the pit shithead. I'm sure there are many people that do steroids and don't realize they need to eat good and train good for best results. I was just curious what would happen to those type of individuals.

Get off your high horse. Everybody needs to start somewhere.

What fucking high horse? If you take steroids and don't workout you are a fucking moron. Plain and simple.

[The Big Sexy]

What fucking high horse? If you take steroids and don't workout you are a fucking moron. Plain and simple.

Well - to qualify that - if you take anabolic steroids for the intent of aesthetic and/or functional physique enhancement and do not workout - dot dot dot...

[Stavman]

Well - to qualify that - if you take anabolic steroids for the intent of aesthetic and/or functional physique enhancement and do not workout - dot dot dot...

You are so eloquent with your words..

[Ninja Loco]

thanks for the compliment. i used to see it all the time, esp with predinisone. weight gain was ridiculous. i always wondered why these people didn't workout at least while they were on it. i can see some body fat decrease with using testosterone, but it would be neglible at best. none of the drugs are of any benefit if you are not working out intensely and eating well.
Exactly. One of my nephews got severely obese when the doctors put him on some kind of steroid. I dont know what it was because this was before I knew anything about them. And to add to what you said about at least working out, as I already said, plenty of people in my gym use steroids. One guy in particular tonight was dispensing steroid advice to someone and he is nothing but a fat guy with decently muscular arms. The only way you can tell that he works out is when he is sleeveless because otherwise he simply looks like another lardass redneck. But he does work out, and HARD. All these guys do. They throw some serious weight and leave sweat puddles on the floor. The same goes with one of my very best gym friends there. He is a strength beast, but readily admits that he doesnt eat anywhere near well. Im going to venture that out of the people whom I know that use......*counts people*....... 6 have what could be considered a decent physique enough to where they would get asked if they take steroids. That's six out of at least 300 members, and thats because I know those guys eat well and train just as hard. Like I said, the rest are just bigger, fatter versions of their old selves.

[kraken]

It wasn't clarified but assumed that "does steroids" meant AAS use. Corticosteroids=Fat, water retention... most likely can't do any training due to illness.
If someone is taking AAS and "doesn't work out, eat right or do cardio", retarded is putting it kindly.

[Sistersteel]

Well - to qualify that - if you take anabolic steroids for the intent of aesthetic and/or functional physique enhancement and do not workout - dot dot dot...

Big Sexy
I find your attempts to rephrase all rather "inappropriate" comments interesting. A tactful gentleman you are indeed. However, when
Sadfatty called the poster a shithead, she pretty much instigated the ricochet of responses.

[sassy69]

It wasn't clarified but assumed that "does steroids" meant AAS use. Corticosteroids=Fat, water retention... most likely can't do any training due to illness.
If someone is taking AAS and "doesn't work out, eat right or do cardio", retarded is putting it kindly.


Maybe to be exhaustive & so we don't confuse corticosteroids, ...

In the context of this forum & this discussion, we're talking specifically about anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS). These are normally used in sports & BB for performance enhancement, or physique enhancement for personal or competitive goals. The general comment is that, just like trying to find the ultimate weightloss pill - it doesn't exist. You can't force your body to do something w/o some sort of cost. Regardless of whether or not you're impatient and "Need to lose 20 lb in 2 weeks" or whatever, you simply cannot force your body to produce results faster than it can w/p some sort of rebound or bad effect. Your body was designed to run efficiently given optimal fuel for physical demands & activities. I.e. clean, optimized diet & training will establish the base for whatever additional supplements or whatever you do to help it along. NOT the drugs are the base for performance of the diet & training.

Corticosteroids, as noted above, are completely different from anabolic steroids and you would not be using them to achieve enhanced performance or physique. The fat / water gain resultign from corticosteroids has nothing to do w/ the discussion of the same from a shitty diet & training combined w/ use of anabolics.

[tammyp]

to take steroids and not train or diet is like taking speed to cure your insomnia.

[Tre]

Why don't you take this answer to the pit shithead. I'm sure there are many people that do steroids and don't realize they need to eat good and train good for best results. I was just curious what would happen to those type of individuals.

Get off your high horse. Everybody needs to start somewhere.
That's the smartest thing you've ever said here.

But just so we're clear, using AAS is not the 'starting point' for anyone looking to make changes in his/her life.

[SadFatty]

Big Sexy
I find your attempts to rephrase all rather "inappropriate" comments interesting. A tactful gentleman you are indeed. However, when
Sadfatty called the poster a shithead, she pretty much instigated the ricochet of responses.

And when you allowed the poster to put something ignorant like that in the women's section you pretty mch didn't do your moderating job.

[SadFatty]

I don't think anybody realizes how many people do steroids uneducated. I asked because I was obviously curious what would happen.

[tammyp]

And when you allowed the poster to put something ignorant like that in the women's section you pretty mch didn't do your moderating job.

ok ...sister steele doesnt deserve that.

i think the original point is someone would be stupid (retarded) to do it in the 1st place without training or dieting.

[Sistersteel]

And when you allowed the poster to put something ignorant like that in the women's section you pretty mch didn't do your moderating job.


And when did you become qualified to tell me how to do my job, Sadfatty? :)

You do not have to approve of other people's opinions. They are entitled to express them just as you are. You might think others make ignorant posts, but that is simply the response you are going to get to an ignorant question my dear.

Anything else? Please let me know if there is anything the staff of RX muscle can do to accommodate you and your moods swings :)

SS

[Stavman]

Hahahahaha. That was awesome.

[Suzy Brown]

you and your moods swings :)

SS roid rage

[SadFatty]

And when did you become qualified to tell me how to do my job, Sadfatty? :)

You do not have to approve of other people's opinions. They are entitled to express them just as you are. You might think others make ignorant posts, but that is simply the response you are going to get to an ignorant question my dear.

Anything else? Please let me know if there is anything the staff of RX muscle can do to accommodate you and your moods swings :)

SS

Excellent to know my dear. I know now that I can make my opinion known without being reprimanded as other people do not have to approve of my opinions.

That being said IN MY OPINIION I still think he is a shithead for being so rude and calling people who do steroids without an education on them RETARDED.

Anything else dear?

[Stavman]

SadFatty, did you know not a single person on this forum likes you because you are so hostile?

You should stop posting.

[Sistersteel]

Excellent to know my dear. I know now that I can make my opinion known without being reprimanded as other people do not have to approve of my opinions.

That being said IN MY OPINIION I still think he is a shithead for being so rude and calling people who do steroids without an education on them RETARDED.

Anything else dear?

Just one more thing Sadfatty,

You just got an infraction :)

Would you like anther one?

[SadFatty]

Just one more thing Sadfatty,

You just got an infraction :)

Would you like anther one?

Wow. Surprising. Once you couldn't defend yourself you use your SUPER MOD powers. Mod is God syndrome....huh. Typical. I'm sure as you are trying to think of a comeback you will give me another infraction. Should I use smileys as well to mask my frustration like you? :p:wavey::beerbang:Infract away. One shoudl take their internet powers very seriously you know. :wavey:

[Sistersteel]

Wow. Surprising. Once you couldn't defend yourself you use your SUPER MOD powers. Mod is God syndrome....huh. Typical. I'm sure as you are trying to think of a comeback you will give me another infraction. Should I use smileys as well to mask my frustration like you? :p:wavey::beerbang:Infract away. One shoudl take their internet powers very seriously you know. :wavey:

Don't flatter yourself. It takes far more than someone like you to infuriate me :)

[Curt James]

The person would get dumber.:beerbang:
Well once he realized he just wasted his money.

Actually, that's called "getting smarter."

The idea that he realized he had just wasted his money and, I'm assuming, therefore will change his plan of attack the next time.

The levels are unconscious incompetence (has no clue and is unaware of that fact a.k.a. "ignorance is bliss"), conscious incompetence (fully aware they are incapable), conscious competence (can accomplish a task but must think about it), unconscious competence (able to complete a task perfectly, seemingly without thought).

[RDFinders]

Another detail to qualify when we're talking about "steroids", there are anabolic androgenic steroids (aka AAS) and also corticosteroids like your standard cortisone shot, as well as prednisone, often used for treatment of various diseases, not the least of which is cancer.

E.g. from http://vasculitis.med.jhu.edu/treatments/prednisone.html
Prednisone is a corticosteroid. In contrast to anabolic steroids (used by “bodybuilders”), corticosteroids are used in inflammatory conditions for their anti–inflammatory effects. They have a rapid onset of action, and profoundly affect many parts of the immune system as well as most other body systems. Corticosteroids are a cornerstone of treating most types of vasculitis, and are often used in combination with other immunosuppressive medications.

It is particularly notorious for causing fat & water retention.
i know you guys are talking about aas and not corticords......weight gain is going to be the same - a pain in the ass to get the fat off if you are not working out.

[Ninja Loco]

i know you guys are talking about aas and not corticords......weight gain is going to be the same - a pain in the ass to get the fat off if you are not working out.
That sounds like a good question for Doc Pangloss to answer as to why it would be more difficult than normal to shed the weight. I think I have an idea and Im going to research it but I bet he knows right off the bat.

[RDFinders]

That sounds like a good question for Doc Pangloss to answer as to why it would be more difficult than normal to shed the weight. I think I have an idea and Im going to research it but I bet he knows right off the bat.
the docs i worked with never would have put a female on a aas even for weight gain from disease. may be now they might use anavar, but most exp i have with aas and weight gain are with men. the best results were with growth hormone. granted these were diseased people and eventually the weight gain they experienced wasn't always what we wanted.

my personal professional opinion is the appetite gets jacked and when these people come off the drugs, they are not able to go back to eat their "maintenance" calories. i have seen this with estrogen therapy in post-menopausal women. it would be interesting to see what he has to say about the weight gain and why it is more difficult to come off.

[Ninja Loco]

I should PM him if he doesnt see this. But what you said makes sense..... I was thinking more along the lines of severe to permanent hormonal imbalance..........unless this is what you meant.

[The Big Sexy]

Big Sexy
I find your attempts to rephrase all rather "inappropriate" comments interesting. A tactful gentleman you are indeed. However, when
Sadfatty called the poster a shithead, she pretty much instigated the ricochet of responses.

True. I just always try to err on the side eloquent and courtesy rather than brazen or curt behavior.

That being said, I think the topic of the thread is so absurdly put out there, there seems to be no other conclusion than it was done with the intention of getting a raise of out people - and then playing the "victim" when people responded harshly.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Sistersteel]

True. I just always try to err on the side eloquent and courtesy rather than brazen or curt behavior.

That being said, I think the topic of the thread is so absurdly put out there, there seems to be no other conclusion than it was done with the intention of getting a raise of out people - and then playing the "victim" when people responded harshly.

Just my opinion, of course.

Barbara Streisand once said:

"Bitches. Its a very male-chauvinist word. I resent it deeply. A person who's a bitch would seem to be mean for no reason. I'm not a mean person. Maybe I'm rude without being aware of it - that's possible."

;)

[The Big Sexy]

Barbara Streisand once said:

"Bitches. Its a very male-chauvinist word. I resent it deeply. A person who's a bitch would seem to be mean for no reason. I'm not a mean person. Maybe I'm rude without being aware of it - that's possible."

;)


"Good breeding consists in concealing how much we think of ourselves and how little we think of the other person." - Mark Twain ;)

[Sistersteel]

"Good breeding consists in concealing how much we think of ourselves and how little we think of the other person." - Mark Twain ;)


Then I am one pure bred bitch. ;)

[Curt James]

True. I just always try to err on the side eloquent and courtesy rather than brazen or curt behavior.

That being said, I think the topic of the thread is so absurdly put out there, there seems to be no other conclusion than it was done with the intention of getting a raise of out people - and then playing the "victim" when people responded harshly.

Just my opinion, of course.

And just what is wrong with curt behavior??? :rolleyes: :p

Uh, never mind.

:beerbang:

[The Big Sexy]

Then I am one pure bred bitch. ;)

Then - this quote would probably suit you better... :)

If a man didn't make sense, the Scotch felt it was misplaced politeness to try to keep him from knowing it. Better that he be aware of his reputation, for this would encourage reticence which goes well with stupidity.
- John K. Galbrath

[kraken]

And just what is wrong with curt behavior??? :rolleyes: :p

Uh, never mind.

:beerbang:
^
This

[RDFinders]

I should PM him if he doesnt see this. But what you said makes sense..... I was thinking more along the lines of severe to permanent hormonal imbalance..........unless this is what you meant.

ninja i would say pm him. i don't think a permanent imbalance occurs. from the women i have spoken with, their appetites stay large. i think they get used to the volume of food and once therapy is stopped, their eating doesn't stop. the guys, have been a toss up.

[fitmomma3]

As crazy and absurd as this question is whats scarier is there are surely some who do this...start supplements with no experience and or knowledge with the hopes that those will start them in the right direction and THEN they will get motivated to eat and train correctly. It's very scary to think it's only going to send them in the other direction. I use to work at a weight loss clinic and I could not believe how many people did gastric bypass surgery - a very serious, dangerous, expensive, life changing surgery only to not follow through and sometimes end up heavier. I know it's not quite the same but it's crazy what people will do to their bodies BEFORE they actually try consistency of changing their eating habits and exercising.

[antonbrn]

As crazy and absurd as this question is whats scarier is there are surely some who do this...start supplements with no experience and or knowledge with the hopes that those will start them in the right direction and THEN they will get motivated to eat and train correctly. It's very scary to think it's only going to send them in the other direction. I use to work at a weight loss clinic and I could not believe how many people did gastric bypass surgery - a very serious, dangerous, expensive, life changing surgery only to not follow through and sometimes end up heavier. I know it's not quite the same but it's crazy what people will do to their bodies BEFORE they actually try consistency of changing their eating habits and exercising.

I agree with your statement. I've seen relatives and others do just that. After the surgery, they were thinner, but with their poor diets, they gained weight and fat back.
By diet and exercise, I feel a person has a since of accomplishment for their hard work.

[RDFinders]

As crazy and absurd as this question is whats scarier is there are surely some who do this...start supplements with no experience and or knowledge with the hopes that those will start them in the right direction and THEN they will get motivated to eat and train correctly. It's very scary to think it's only going to send them in the other direction. I use to work at a weight loss clinic and I could not believe how many people did gastric bypass surgery - a very serious, dangerous, expensive, life changing surgery only to not follow through and sometimes end up heavier. I know it's not quite the same but it's crazy what people will do to their bodies BEFORE they actually try consistency of changing their eating habits and exercising.

fitmomma3 - i do the pre-surgery counseling on those individuals. and they are not committed to do it without the surgery. microwave society. that's all i can say. i have heard all the excuses. i have raised the question of why is this going to make a difference. the answer - it makes them accountable b/c the volume of their stomachs are reduced. they could have spent the money working with a trainer/dietitian and gotten the same results if not better. but they want that weight to come off faster.

[sassy69]

Nobody wants to make the lifestyle commitment. Your body reflects your lifestyle. Period. Any dramatic things you force it on aren't maintainable unless you combine it w/ lifestyle changes that support the change. Otherwise your body tells you to go fuck yourself and it does what it has to do to function as best it can (i.e. rebound, blow up, shrink down, hurt, or just shut down).

[Ninja Loco]

Nobody wants to make the lifestyle commitment. Your body reflects your lifestyle. Period. Any dramatic things you force it on aren't maintainable unless you combine it w/ lifestyle changes that support the change. Otherwise your body tells you to go fuck yourself and it does what it has to do to function as best it can (i.e. rebound, blow up, shrink down, hurt, or just shut down).
Exactly, Sass. I turn down more clients (and I really cant AFFORD TO, but...) for this reason right here. Yes, turn them down. I am not going to put myself on the line and be accused of not doing MY job if they are not willing to do theirs. Im sorry, it's just not going to happen. And simple, almost unoticeable changes is usually all that's required. But nooooooooo..... I get asked about "the best fat burners" and crap like that right off the bat. Ive had some ask me about steroids before due to them reading about the whole Janet Jackson shit, or simply ask me about "what do they take", meaning the hollywood starlets.

Im going to save your post for posterity and use it. It's the best way Ive ever seen it put.


And Im going to PM Doc P.

[Dr Pangloss]

Nearly every study wherein anabolic steroids are used to combat wasting related to HIV or aging, and many directed at other matters, report increases in lean muscle mass in the absence of any resistance training.

In fact, often the criteria are that the patient not be involved in resistance training NOT be training, as it could obfuscate the results.

[Dr Pangloss]

Nearly every study wherein anabolic steroids are used to combat wasting related to HIV or aging, and many directed at other matters, report increases in lean muscle mass in the absence of any resistance training.

In fact, often the criteria are that the patient not be involved in resistance training NOT be training, as it could obfuscate the results.

Does it last after withdrawal in the case of no training. I don't think its been specifically studied, but it's almost certainly a 'no.'

[Ninja Loco]

But do they gain fat weight, Doc? Im pretty sure it's a given that anabolic steroids will increase lean muscle tissue regardless, but I guess we took the question further and expressed how we've also seen tremendous amounts of bodyfat gain as well.

[Dr Pangloss]

Nearly every study wherein anabolic steroids are used to combat wasting related to HIV or aging, and many directed at other matters, report increases in lean muscle mass in the absence of any resistance training.

In fact, often the criteria are that the patient not be involved in resistance training NOT be training, as it could obfuscate the results.


sorry i screwed up this line. the criteria are that patients not be involved in resistance training, as that also produces gains in muscle mass.

[Dr Pangloss]

But do they gain fat weight, Doc? Im pretty sure it's a given that anabolic steroids will increase lean muscle tissue regardless, but I guess we took the question further and expressed how we've also seen tremendous amounts of bodyfat gain as well.


to my knowledge there is nothing that indicates aas use results in fat gain either on or after withdrawal. Negative studies rarely get published, so the chances that you would find an affirmation of no fat gain are low.

[Ninja Loco]

Ahh....... word. Well then I guess there are no supporting studies on that. I have seen it, and still see it, all too often though.

[Dr Pangloss]

Ahh....... word. Well then I guess there are no supporting studies on that. I have seen it, and still see it, all too often though.


fat gain from steroid use?

[Dr Pangloss]

Let me clarify. Lower levels of Testosterone than 'normal' which is a general affliction of aging men DOES result in fat gain. Test replacement reverses this. This is not really what you're asking but it supports your view narrowly, in that while the subject is secreting below-normal levels of test, one would predict an increased likelihood of fat gain.

: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. (javascript:AL_get(this, 'jour', 'J Clin Endocrinol Metab.');) 2008 Jan;93(1):139-46. Epub 2007 Oct 16.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corehtml/query/egifs/http:--highwire.stanford.edu-icons-externalservices-pubmed-standard-jcem_final_free.gif (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/utils/fref.fcgi?PrId=3051&itool=AbstractPlus-def&uid=17940111&db=pubmed&url=http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=17940111) Links (javascript:PopUpMenu2_Set(Menu17940111);)

Testosterone therapy prevents gain in visceral adipose tissue and loss of skeletal muscle in nonobese aging men.

Allan CA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Allan%20CA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Strauss BJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Strauss%20BJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Burger HG (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Burger%20HG%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), Forbes EA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Forbes%20EA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus), McLachlan RI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22McLachlan%20RI%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus).
Prince Henry's Institute, Monash University, Clayton, Victoria 3168, Australia.
BACKGROUND: Trials of testosterone therapy in aging men have demonstrated increases in fat-free mass (FFM) and skeletal muscle and decreases in fat mass (FM) but have not reported the impact of baseline body composition. OBJECTIVE: The objective of the study was to determine the effect, in nonobese aging men with symptoms of androgen deficiency and low-normal serum testosterone levels, of testosterone therapy on total and regional body composition and hormonal and metabolic indices. METHODS: Sixty healthy but symptomatic, nonobese men aged 55 yr or older with total testosterone (TT) levels less than 15 nm were randomized to transdermal testosterone patches or placebo for 52 wk. Body composition, by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry (FM, FFM, skeletal muscle) and magnetic resonance imaging (abdominal sc and visceral adipose tissue, thigh skeletal muscle, and intermuscular fat) and hormonal and metabolic parameters were measured at wk 0 and 52. RESULTS: Serum TT increased by 30% (P = 0.01), and LH decreased by 50% (P < 0.001). Relative to placebo, total body FFM (P = 0.03) and skeletal muscle (P = 0.008) were increased and thigh skeletal muscle loss was prevented (P = 0.045) with testosterone therapy and visceral fat accumulation decreased (P = 0.001) without change in total body or abdominal sc FM; change in visceral fat was correlated with change in TT levels (r2 = 0.36; P = 0.014). There was a trend to increasing total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol with placebo. CONCLUSION: Testosterone therapy, relative to placebo, selectively lessened visceral fat accumulation without change in total body FM and increased total body FFM and total body and thigh skeletal muscle mass. Further studies are needed to determine the impact of these body compositional changes on markers of metabolic and cardiovascular risk.

[RDFinders]

Nearly every study wherein anabolic steroids are used to combat wasting related to HIV or aging, and many directed at other matters, report increases in lean muscle mass in the absence of any resistance training.

In fact, often the criteria are that the patient not be involved in resistance training NOT be training, as it could obfuscate the results.

couldn't that be b/c the cachexia they are experiencing is overcome with steroid/growth hormone usage? so if you took the average joe/jane without cachexia syndrome, their weight gain would not be the "desired" gains?

[Dr Pangloss]

couldn't that be b/c the cachexia they are experiencing is overcome with steroid/growth hormone usage? so if you took the average joe/jane without cachexia syndrome, their weight gain would not be the "desired" gains?


no. you find this with normal individuals also.

[sassy69]

But do they gain fat weight, Doc? Im pretty sure it's a given that anabolic steroids will increase lean muscle tissue regardless, but I guess we took the question further and expressed how we've also seen tremendous amounts of bodyfat gain as well.

I think the deal is that if you're looking to use steroids to do all the work, but you don't alter a shitty lifestyle you'd get some lean muscle mass, but the addition of the already shitty diet & couchpotato lifestyle will certainly continue to contribute to fat gain, in addition to stress on the system from steroids. Also consider if someone is simple enough to think steroids will do all the work in terms of "get big muscles & rip you up", they probably are also forgetting about the ancillaries and will experience the accompanying water gain, gyno, etc.

At the end of the day, if they were expecting to look like Arnold because they "did steroids", but did nothing else, they are not going to get the results they wanted. They'll have whatever they started with but thicker. If they also interpreted the use of steroids as "gotta eat everything in sight to bulk cuz I'm runnign some dbols", they will further continue to gain fat. Its not the use of steroids per se, but rather the accompanying lifestyle or lack thereof that will contribute to worse result. I think we all feel that if you're going to subject your body to the stresses of excess hormones, then wouldn't you want to get the most out of it? Just tossing down dbols and doing nothign else, resulting in NOT getting the Arnold phsyique, could further make someone think "that cycle was crap, I'm gonna try something stronger"... and then make it worse yet.

[Ninja Loco]

Extremely well put, Sassy.