Keto Mass Gain Diet 4 Newbie

[The Rock]

:lift3:Hey everyone,

Im looking for a mass gain diet that fit's in with the keto diet.

I haven't tried anything like this before so any help recieved will be much appreciated.

I have dropped my carb's before and all though i lost a good bit of fat i also lost what little muscle i had.

I'm 29,6ft 3",weigh 95kg and have long thin limb's.I have been training in gym's for 5 year's but people seem suprised when i tell them this.

I have tried many diet's,training program's and personal trainer's with little to no result's and i dont know where else to turn:(.

I love training and eating healthy food's but when i see no result's i lack motivation and eat crap and go around in circle's.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.:)

[meatheadio]

There is no such thing as a 'keto' mass gaining diet. But I assume you mean a mass gain diet that incorporates a good amount of healthy fat, which is a very good idea.
Start out with a caloric goal in mind. I like to start my guys off on 17 Cal/pound.
Fou you this would be 3553 Calories.
Then work out Protein-1.5gm/lb=313.5 (1254 Calories)
Fat-.5gm/lb-104.5 (940.5 Calories)
Carbohydrate-Whatever is left-3553-(940.5+1254)=1358.5 Calories
Divide this by 4 to get grams of Carbs-339.6
Spread this out evenly over 5-7 meals (except post workout-avoid any fats at this stage).
This is a starting point. If you are not gaining weight (at least 1lb per week) slowly increase the caloires.

Good Luck.

[Frosty]

There is no such thing as a 'keto' mass gaining diet. But I assume you mean a mass gain diet that incorporates a good amount of healthy fat, which is a very good idea.
Start out with a caloric goal in mind. I like to start my guys off on 17 Cal/pound.
Fou you this would be 3553 Calories.
Then work out Protein-1.5gm/lb=313.5 (1254 Calories)
Fat-.5gm/lb-104.5 (940.5 Calories)
Carbohydrate-Whatever is left-3553-(940.5+1254)=1358.5 Calories
Divide this by 4 to get grams of Carbs-339.6
Spread this out evenly over 5-7 meals (except post workout-avoid any fats at this stage).
This is a starting point. If you are not gaining weight (at least 1lb per week) slowly increase the caloires.

Good Luck.

Well there IS such a thing as low carb gaining diets. They work very well for the right individual. However I question its application to the original poster.

So to The Rock, do you gain fat very easily? How lean are you? If you're pretty lean and have a tough time gaining muscle mass, I don't think a low carb gaining method is necessarily the best way. If this assumption is true, what meatheadio said is good advice. Only thing I might add is to time carbs more around mornings and workouts when you're more receptive to insulin, and less carbs in the evening unless you just trained. Gradual changes and monitoring progress are essential...1 lb a week is actually good gains and may be a goal to shoot for. Perhaps weigh yourself once every 2 weeks so you can notice a 2 lb change. If it's less, eat more, if it's too much, cut back calories.

[The Rock]

Thank's guy's for getting back so quickly.:beerbang:
I will use both your advice and come up with a meal plan for that caloric goal.

I am fairly lean,i carry a little bit of fat around my waist but none on my leg's and arm's. I dont gain fat quickly,i have a fast metabilism. And yes, i do have a tough time of gaining muscle and keeping it.

Hopefully i can work out a good diet for myself,i will post it for you guy's to have a look at if that's ok?

[Frosty]

Hopefully i can work out a good diet for myself,i will post it for you guy's to have a look at if that's ok?

Of course!

And yes, low carb gaining does NOT sound like the right method for you.

We can tweak your diet because with what you said I feel timing of carbs is important for keeping you leaner.

[meatheadio]

Of course!

And yes, low carb gaining does NOT sound like the right method for you.

We can tweak your diet because with what you said I feel timing of carbs is important for keeping you leaner.

I agree, although it is necessary to keep a certain amount of healthy fats in for hormone function etc. a higher carb diet would most likely work better for you.
Although CHO are not as nutrient dense as fat they are broken down much faster and can be consumed in larger amounts more frequently.
Most people (especially bodybuilders) could easily consume a meal such as 200gm chicken breast and 300gm potato (about 50g protein and 60g CHO) and easily repeat this meal just a short time later.
I know on my high carb days my stomach is basically a bottemless pit as my body is used to having fat with my meals.
Frosty is correct in saying that nutrient timing is important, I would go even further to say that it is VITAL. People who dont time their nutrients correctly are missing out on huge gains. Typically you will pyramid you carb intake around you workout to raise insulin levels so amino acids and glucose are ready for absorption by the cell when you train.

Plz post your sample diet and I will be happy to look over it.

[MusclesMarinara]

Not trying to steal your thread but im in a similar boat, but im only 5'10 180. Im fairly lean (you can see my abs somewhat). I have definition in the rest of my body, the majority of the fat is in my abdomen. I would like to put on as much size as possible and take advantage of being 21 years old. Not sure what the best type of mass gaining diet to use. I dieted on keto and responded well but the results dropped quickly. I was thinking about adding carbs to meal 1, pre and post workout. any suggestions??

[meatheadio]

Not trying to steal your thread but im in a similar boat, but im only 5'10 180. Im fairly lean (you can see my abs somewhat). I have definition in the rest of my body, the majority of the fat is in my abdomen. I would like to put on as much size as possible and take advantage of being 21 years old. Not sure what the best type of mass gaining diet to use. I dieted on keto and responded well but the results dropped quickly. I was thinking about adding carbs to meal 1, pre and post workout. any suggestions??

Unfortunately there isn't necessarily any one 'universal' diet. There is an element of trial and error we must all go through in order to find the best diet for us. But one thing we can do is elimate alot of the crap out there. Any diet or supplement that claims that you can gain 20lbs of muscle in 14 days or anything similar is pure rubbish. I could give you a diet that would see you gain double that in half the time, but you would be as fat as a house.
You sound as though you are relatively ectomorphic, meaning you ind it hard to gain weight of any kind.
We'll start with a moderate fat diet, still including a higher amount of protein and carbohydrates ingested around your workout.
Start out with calories- as stated I like to start my clients out on 17 cal/lb. This would eqaute to 3060 caloires.
Then take protein- well go with 1 gm per pound- 180gm (720 cal)
Fat- .5gm/lb-90gm (810 cal)
Carbohydrate-Whatever is left-3060-(720+810)=1530 cal
Divide this by four to get grams-382.5gm carb.
Split this up over 5-7 meals. Liquid meals are great around workout times as they are quick and digested easily.
To help minimise fat gain take in the majority of your carbs with your earlier meal (eg.Meal 1-5) and have your remaining meals carb free, being just protein/fat meals.
Try this diet for a minimum of two weeks and see how you go. Try to stick to your numbers as closely as possible otherwise you will not know whether the resulsts are because of your nutritional plan, or in spite of it.
If you are not gaining weight (about 1-2lbs in 2 weeks, or you have gaining too much fat, you will need to adjust the numbers.
Feel free to send me a PM or update on this thread with you progress/input.
Best of luck.

[ruffiny89]

what about someone that is endo?

[MusclesMarinara]

Unfortunately there isn't necessarily any one 'universal' diet. There is an element of trial and error we must all go through in order to find the best diet for us. But one thing we can do is elimate alot of the crap out there. Any diet or supplement that claims that you can gain 20lbs of muscle in 14 days or anything similar is pure rubbish. I could give you a diet that would see you gain double that in half the time, but you would be as fat as a house.
You sound as though you are relatively ectomorphic, meaning you ind it hard to gain weight of any kind.
We'll start with a moderate fat diet, still including a higher amount of protein and carbohydrates ingested around your workout.
Start out with calories- as stated I like to start my clients out on 17 cal/lb. This would eqaute to 3060 caloires.
Then take protein- well go with 1 gm per pound- 180gm (720 cal)
Fat- .5gm/lb-90gm (810 cal)
Carbohydrate-Whatever is left-3060-(720+810)=1530 cal
Divide this by four to get grams-382.5gm carb.
Split this up over 5-7 meals. Liquid meals are great around workout times as they are quick and digested easily.
To help minimise fat gain take in the majority of your carbs with your earlier meal (eg.Meal 1-5) and have your remaining meals carb free, being just protein/fat meals.
Try this diet for a minimum of two weeks and see how you go. Try to stick to your numbers as closely as possible otherwise you will not know whether the resulsts are because of your nutritional plan, or in spite of it.
If you are not gaining weight (about 1-2lbs in 2 weeks, or you have gaining too much fat, you will need to adjust the numbers.
Feel free to send me a PM or update on this thread with you progress/input.
Best of luck.

Thanks a lot bro. Quick question.

Would you divide the amount of protein fat and carbs evenly or does that not matter. I was thinking all carbs meal 1 pre and post workout and an even amount of protein and fat throughout the day. Also by liquid meals did you mean shakes? Thanks again!

[MusclesMarinara]

I planned my diet as this:

Meal 1: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs

Meal 2: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs

Meal 3: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs (Preworkout Shake)

Meal 4: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs (Postworkout Shake)

Meal 5: 30g protein/15g fat

Meal 6: 30g protein/15g fat

Total: 180g protein/ 90g fat/380g carbs

[MusclesMarinara]

I planned my diet as this:

Meal 1: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs

Meal 2: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs

Meal 3: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs (Preworkout Shake)

Meal 4: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs (Postworkout Shake)

Meal 5: 30g protein/15g fat

Meal 6: 30g protein/15g fat

Total: 180g protein/ 90g fat/380g carbs

i feel like this is not enough protein... using the back of the packages of my food i estimated the whole food meals with carbs as

4.8oz chicken breast (1 package)
28g cashews
1.25 cups brown rice
1/2 cup of brocolli

the macros were 638 cals, 16.7g fat, 94.3g carbs, 38.7g protein.
according to the numbers, thats obviously too much but its not even 5oz of chicken? am i doing something wrong

[meatheadio]

what about someone that is endo?

It is hard to give blanket recommendations without any info. But if you like either send me a PM or post your stats (height,weight and bodyfat) and your current training and diet (as well as any supplements you are using).
The more info the better.

[meatheadio]

Thanks a lot bro. Quick question.

Would you divide the amount of protein fat and carbs evenly or does that not matter. I was thinking all carbs meal 1 pre and post workout and an even amount of protein and fat throughout the day. Also by liquid meals did you mean shakes? Thanks again!


I planned my diet as this:

Meal 1: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs

Meal 2: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs

Meal 3: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs (Preworkout Shake)

Meal 4: 30g protein/15g fat/95g carbs (Postworkout Shake)

Meal 5: 30g protein/15g fat

Meal 6: 30g protein/15g fat

Total: 180g protein/ 90g fat/380g carbs


i feel like this is not enough protein... using the back of the packages of my food i estimated the whole food meals with carbs as

4.8oz chicken breast (1 package)
28g cashews
1.25 cups brown rice
1/2 cup of brocolli

the macros were 638 cals, 16.7g fat, 94.3g carbs, 38.7g protein.
according to the numbers, thats obviously too much but its not even 5oz of chicken? am i doing something wrong

Yes liquid meals are shakes.
Below is the plan Id recommend and the reasoning why:
Meal 1-5 whole eggs, 90gm carbs from oats.

Meal 2-Chicken breast (30gm protein-your numbers are about right)
90gm carbs from rice (any kind), 1 TBSP mac nut oil

Meal 3-Pre-workout shake-30gm protein from WPI, 50gm Waxy maize, 1 TBSP mac nut oil in 600-800ml of water

Meal 4-Post workout shake-Repeat meal 3 minus the mac nut oil.

Meal 5-30g protein from either chicken or WPI, 100g carbs from oats or rice + 1TBSP mac nut oil

Meal 6-30gm protein from red meat, 1 TBSP mac nut oil or all nuatural peanut butter, 1-2 cups green vegetables.

-Your preworkout shake would ideally consist of WPI, waxy maize and mac nut oil. Consume this approximatley 30 minutes pre workout.
Drop the fats in the post workout shake. Fats slow the emptying of nutrients into the digestive tract which is good at most other times of the day but something that we want to avoid after a workout. Conusme this meal immediatley after you finish your workout.The water content is set like this to ensure optimal gastric emptying and help with cell hydration which is probably one of the most overlooked aspects of bodybuilding.
-Your post workout solid meal will help stabilize your blood glucose levels. Carbs at this time are important as they do help with glycogen replenishment/cell hydration and this meal should help you to stabilize you own energy levels so you can get on with your day.

You numbers are about right with regards to nutrient content. I dont bother counting the indirect sources-ie protein in oats etc. You can do this if you want but just make sure you keep it consistent acroos all your meals. Id recommend not doing it as it is far more time consuming. If you were to do this you'd find that your getting an extra 20-30g protein indirectly.
Your protein intake is good. You only weight 180lbs so dont worry about it too much. Seeing what the pro's eat can mess people up thinking they need 500g protein when they only weigh 200lbs.
Try this for two weeks minimum and if you are not gaining weight we will increase you calories and you protein count.

If I've left anything out or you have any more q's send me a PM or post it here.

[MusclesMarinara]

im going to give it a try starting next week bc im going away for 4 days this week and want to give your advice the effort it deserves before i see how my body responds. thanks alot man!

EDIT: Few More ?s if you dont mind
- Should cardio be completely removed or is it ok?
- As far as supplements go what (besides the obvious protein/waxy maize) are musts and must nots? I currently take JetFuel every morning and pre workout

[meatheadio]

im going to give it a try starting next week bc im going away for 4 days this week and want to give your advice the effort it deserves before i see how my body responds. thanks alot man!

EDIT: Few More ?s if you dont mind
- Should cardio be completely removed or is it ok?
- As far as supplements go what (besides the obvious protein/waxy maize) are musts and must nots? I currently take JetFuel every morning and pre workout

Try to keep your goal in mind. Are you trying to gain size?If yes, then why would you complete lots of cardio and use a thermogenic product? You're sending your body contradictory signals. Drop the Jetfuel immediately. Save it for when you need it most, in the depths of dieting. I diet without any fat burners unitl I get down to very low numbers. Also, if you take it all year round your body acclimatizes to it and cant function without it. So when you start dieting you basically need it just to maintain your current bodyfat. Save it for dieting.
Cardio is ok, as long as it does not interfere with your training/diet.
Cardio is good to maintain the health of your cardiovascular system and helps couteract some of the negatove effects of weight training.
30 minutes once or twice a week is more than enough, but if you are finding it hard to put on size drop it. As with the fat burner if you do it all year round your body adapts to it and then you dont get the desired effect from it when you start dieting.
Protein/waxy is all you really need. But if you want you can add in some creatine. Just throw in 5g creatine monohydrate pre and post workout.
You're eating plenty of food and really dont have any major deficiencies to require supplementation. If you want though, you could throw in a multivitamin/mineral with your first meal. But dont use this an excuse to not eat your greens.
Sorry for the slightly long winded answers but I want you to understand the logic and science behind these decisions.

[The Rock]

I do 3 interval seesion's a week.30 sec's on-30 sec's off,1min on-1 min off,2 min on-2min off.All these at the fastest pace possible.

I was told this was the best way to lose fat whilst not losing muscle.

I would prefer to keep doing CV as last time i stopped,i just felt sluggish and unfit.

What would be the ideal amount of CV for me in your opinion?

Also has anyone tried tha Asteroid Stack? I read an article and this stack sound's amazing.I am thinking of trying it with my mass gain plan.

And lastly,is a 3 day split better than a 4 day(2 on,1 off,2 on,2 off)?

[MusclesMarinara]

I do 3 interval seesion's a week.30 sec's on-30 sec's off,1min on-1 min off,2 min on-2min off.All these at the fastest pace possible.

I was told this was the best way to lose fat whilst not losing muscle.

I would prefer to keep doing CV as last time i stopped,i just felt sluggish and unfit.

What would be the ideal amount of CV for me in your opinion?

Also has anyone tried tha Asteroid Stack? I read an article and this stack sound's amazing.I am thinking of trying it with my mass gain plan.

And lastly,is a 3 day split better than a 4 day(2 on,1 off,2 on,2 off)?

I used to the 2 on 1 off 2 on 2 off and i really liked it, but im beginning to do DC training this monday which is a Mon-Wed-Fri-Mon routine. I CANT WAIT... :lift::lift3:

[meatheadio]

I do 3 interval seesion's a week.30 sec's on-30 sec's off,1min on-1 min off,2 min on-2min off.All these at the fastest pace possible.

I was told this was the best way to lose fat whilst not losing muscle.

I would prefer to keep doing CV as last time i stopped,i just felt sluggish and unfit.

What would be the ideal amount of CV for me in your opinion?

Also has anyone tried tha Asteroid Stack? I read an article and this stack sound's amazing.I am thinking of trying it with my mass gain plan.

And lastly,is a 3 day split better than a 4 day(2 on,1 off,2 on,2 off)?

Interval training is a very effective method for calorie wasting as it increases your metablic rate for up to 24hrs after cessation of exercise.
But due to its high intensity interval training does cause an increase in amino acid oxidation,which if not in ready supply in the bloodstream, will be taken from the muscles-catabolic activity!
However it is not very conducive to the guidlines of Dave's keto diet. Dave recommends low intensity (<130bpm) for good reason. If following his diet, it would be best to follow his guidlines cardio also.
Unfortunately is it hard to give you recommnedations with regards to how much cardio you need. By the sounds of things, and looking at your diet you may be overdoing it. Because you are already part way into your diet start out with 4X40 minute sessions at 120-130bpm. This would preferably be done first thing in the morning on a non-training day or immediately post-workout (dont eat anything between weights and cardio, wait til after).
Traingin split is an individual thing. Depending on your work schedule, other commitments etc. Find a split that allows you to get the most out of your training. Remember, you're dieting so do not have sufficient nutrients to facilitate the repair required after your training. Maintenance is the goal.
One split I have found works well for most people is push (chest.front and side delts,tri's),pull (back,rear delts, bi;s) and legs (quads,hams calves). This is completed in a one-off one-on style-eg mon-wed-fri. You train your whole body over the course of 5 days. Take a day off after this and repeat.
The key to this split is keeping the volume relatively low.

Good luck.

[Joshua H]

I have been doing a modified diet that uses carb timing more then anything else. I have my carbs only at breakfast, pre and post workout. On off days I have them at breakfast in a reduced portion. I found that I got way too tired by eating carbs at 5 of 6 meals a day even at smaller 60g or more per sitting.

I now have my meals set as follows (since feb 1)

35 grams protein per meal

15 grams fat per meal (except carb containing meals)

75 grams of carbs in the 3 meals listed above. (breakfast, pre and post)

I only count the protein and fats from the direct sources, not the run off from other sources.

So on off days I get 30 extra grams of fat and 150 less grams of carbs which does create a small calorie drop but since I dont train its fine. I only do 25 minutes on HITT on the bike on my 3 off days which seems to have done wonders for staying lean and keeping my weight up at the same time. I never do my HIIT fasted I should note.

I would love to have carbs at every meal like I did prior to my new workout and diet plan but the lethargy I had to deal with daily was not worth it!

[fuji24]

So to The Rock, do you accretion fat actual easily? How angular are you? If you're appealing angular and accept a boxy time accepting beef mass, I don't anticipate a low carb accepting adjustment is necessarily the best way. If this acceptance is true, what meatheadio said is acceptable advice. Only affair I ability add is to time carbs added about mornings and workouts if you're added acceptant to insulin, and beneath carbs in the black unless you just trained. Gradual changes and ecology advance are essential...1 lb a anniversary is in fact acceptable assets and may be a ambition to shoot for. Perhaps counterbalance yourself already every 2 weeks so you can apprehension a 2 lb change. If it's less, eat more, if it's too much, cut aback calories.

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