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gman
05-26-2009, 10:28 AM
Just a question to you guys. I cannot press without pain in my front shoulders if I try to touch the bar to my chest on the flat or incline press. I come down until my upper arms are parallel to the floor, and am fine. I know those reps wouldn't count in a meet, but can I count them for working out?

gman
05-26-2009, 12:17 PM
What I am asking really, is: when I say I did 5 reps at 225, did I really since I didn't come down and touch my chest? Or should I just care that I am getting stronger on my own style of bench press?

esplendido
05-26-2009, 12:25 PM
Mike,

I have a similar problem with Incline barbell press. It hurts my left shoulder to let the bar down to my chest. And this is something new in my old age because in my youth, I could let the bar down all the way with no pain. I can flat bench just fine.

To get complete chest development, a full range of motion is necessary. What I've done to compensate for the inclines is incline dumbbell flies. With my arms partially bent, I can get very deep and get an incredible stretch in the pecs, which is where you want to be.

I recommend you add flat and incline DB flies, using a weight that only allows 8-10 reps and let the DB's down far enough to feel the pecs stretching to their max. It takes the pressure off the shoulders and puts it directly on the pecs.

You could still do the partial bar reps. But understand that you'll be getting more triceps work than pecs.

gman
05-26-2009, 12:33 PM
Thanks Rick. I do the flys too, both kinds! This shoulder problem comes and goes on the bb presses. Today it just happened to be there. I guess I could work on db presses too, because I can come lower on those by holding the db's with my palms facing one another.. It just sucks to not be able to do the king of presses, but better to not get injured at our age, I guess.

One guy at our gym does his bb flat bench presses off the safety bars of the squat rack, calls them power presses. It is sort of like starting from almost the bottom. He did 17 at 315 Monday.

sassy69
05-26-2009, 12:38 PM
Do you do any sort of shoulder warm up or have you had a shoulder injury in the past? I had a bonespur removed in November, along w/ some minor arthritis in the AC joint and a lot of frayed tendon. I still do piles of front/angle /side raises w/ 10 lb dbs, as well as cable inside /outside pulls... I.e. warm up every possible angle you can rotate your shoulder before hitting it. And also do you ice your shoulder after training?

Shoulders suck... my right one is hurting again. LIke an idiot last nite I decided to do some shadow boxing too and now my right shoulder is sore all the time. Not good considerign that's the one w/ the surgery on it. It always scare me when something hurts so much that you can't exercise the full ROM w/ it. I fight chest & bi day becaues of my tendonitis, but I work hard to do full ROM, even if I have to slow down the rep and drop the weight some.

gman
05-26-2009, 12:42 PM
My warm up is probably lacking a lot. I do a couple of sets of pushups, then press the bar, then a set at 115, etc. Warming up is something I know I need to a better job on! I know mine is a tendon problem based on where the pain is. It is almost like the tendon needs to pop like a knuckle (like it is binding, and needs to pop back into place or change places), but just won't do it, then it starts hurting and gives out.

I have never really hurt either shoulder to the best of my knowledge.

ironwarrior22
05-26-2009, 03:35 PM
I have had some shoulder issues for a few years as well and I noticed that warming up good with stretches and light lifts throughout the different shoulder motions has helped some. What has helped the most for me is cutting back on my workout days. I have gone from training 5 days a week to 3 and I have had very little shoulder issues and I am gaining 2-3 pounds a week naturally for about 4 weeks now when before I had stagnated at 225 I am now up to 235 and growing. It's amazing to me.

BEAST MODE
05-26-2009, 03:40 PM
G, try this as your warmup on all upper body days and see if it helps. I stole it from Branch Warren, and it has helped me a lot. You will need a 5 or 7.5 lb dumbbell for it. Run it as a circuit, each exercise for 10-12 reps, just to loosen up and get blood flowing.

Overhead DB Press
Front DB Raise
Side DB Raise
Rear DB Raise
Internal Rotations (for rotators)
External Rotations (same)

You can add in OH extensions, kickbacks, whatever you think will help. I also like to twist the dumbbells in my wrists before I start that circuit just to get them loose too. I'll do about 15-20 twists.

The tendon popping issue you described sounds like something I had a few years back when I was training super heavy. I found that constant stretching and massaging relieved it, but I also had to warmup more and sometimes lighten the weight. Deep tissue work helped a lot too.

HeavyDutyGuy
05-26-2009, 04:07 PM
Definitely warm up more! As I've gotten older, I've had to warm up a LOT more! For chest, you could do LIGHT, high rep cable crossovers, increasing the ROM as you go. Two sets. Then go into your regular pressing movement. 1 to 2 warmup sets with just the bar, again inreasing the ROM as you go. Then 3 to 4 progressive warm up sets. You don't need a lot of reps on these. Just get the muscles adapted to the weight, rest, do the next. Works for me, anyway.

gman
05-26-2009, 04:38 PM
Thanks, guys, this is awesome advice.

Since I don't have a history of shoulder problems, maybe the increased warmups, stretching, etc will eventually get me to where I am able to do the full ROM.

I used to joke when I first started lifting that I didn't need to stretch and warmup because I didn't have any muscles to warm up! I know that I do now, so I better get doing it.

SpeedoGuido
05-26-2009, 06:46 PM
I'm probably a little over cautious with the warm ups. On shoulder / chest day I start with rubber bands, various movements for a few minutes. Then use very light weight for several sets building up to the work sets.
I always do shoulders before chest. If I don't my rotators kill me.

Dom
05-27-2009, 09:00 AM
Warm up, if you didnt get that from all of the other post?
Sure is great getting older!!! You learn all the good info when you need it. Like it or not!!! LOL!! Snap crackel and pop mean a whole new thing in the gym at 5 am!!!
Warm up! You will notice it!! You will be able to handel more with a lot less pain and it is just safe.
Dom

HeavyDutyGuy
05-27-2009, 02:54 PM
Its funny, cause it can seem like a minor thing, but the warmup is important, and becomes more critical the older you get. I think I do more wamups than heavy hard sets, and I have no injuries or pain, except the shoulder I injured 20 years ago. And that's actually better now than it was back in the years after I hurt it. So do your warmups- hydrate.- and you're golden.

Rocco1943
05-27-2009, 03:47 PM
I have a bone spur in my left shoulder as well as some calcification on my outside rotator as well as a unhealed shoulder separation in my right shoulder. I notice that the left shoulder is considerably weaker than my right. I have to really warm up on anything that involves shoulders, chest work, or shoulder work. If you warm up really good. You should be able to handle a pretty good amount of weight without a lot of pain. You just won't be able to handle quite as much weight as you would like, so on the the last set or an extra set, rep out 12-14 with a weight that you can handle. Just my 2 cents worth.

sassy69
05-27-2009, 06:39 PM
I have a bone spur in my left shoulder as well as some calcification on my outside rotator as well as a unhealed shoulder separation in my right shoulder. I notice that the left shoulder is considerably weaker than my right. I have to really warm up on anything that involves shoulders, chest work, or shoulder work. If you warm up really good. You should be able to handle a pretty good amount of weight without a lot of pain. You just won't be able to handle quite as much weight as you would like, so on the the last set or an extra set, rep out 12-14 with a weight that you can handle. Just my 2 cents worth.


Time to break out the duct tape!


(Duct tape fixes everything...)

Rocco1943
05-27-2009, 10:57 PM
I don't know about that. I ate 2 rolls of it last week and all I got was a stomach ache,.

sassy69
05-28-2009, 04:19 AM
I don't know about that. I ate 2 rolls of it last week and all I got was a stomach ache,.


Then I recommend Ginger Root & Digestive Enzymes :)

Bryan Hildebrand
05-28-2009, 08:59 AM
sounds lik you may have a shoulder impingement. usually its from an inflamation of the pec minor where it inserts into the shoulder. cortisone has taken mine away twice over 12 years and made a huge difference.
were getting older. with age should come patience. warming up and stretching need to be a part of your everyday routine.

gman
05-28-2009, 10:21 AM
bingo, atilla! I remember now, I went to an ART massage guy a year or two ago, and he was working on the pec minor big time. Maybe I will go see him again. ART is some good shit.

dougie
05-29-2009, 12:41 AM
I have/had the same thing going on with my shoulder. My chiropractor told me that most bodybuilders/weight lifters shoulders tend to rotate forward from all the pressing. The way he explained it was the front tendon gets pinched causing the sharp pain and suggested I take a heavy DB and bend at the waist and support yourself with your free arm and let the DB hang with a slight pendulum motion. You don't have to do it long, about a minute with each arm. After a couple of days I felt better and now have improved it by about 85-90%. Inclines were the worst and at one point I could barley do 135lbs. By hanging the weight it pulls the part of the shoulder away from the tendons, it worked well for me and now my workouts are alot more productive.

gman
05-29-2009, 11:30 AM
Dougie, clarification please!

You bend forward at the waist and let the arm hang holding the db. Is the pendulum motion side to side, or is it front to back?

dougie
05-29-2009, 11:56 PM
Hey gman it is front to back, very slight, maybe 3-4 inches each way. My doc of course perscribed 800mg of ibuprofin 3x a day, which did nothing. Then of course they wanted to try the dreaded cortizone shot which I felt would mask the problem. That's one thing I can say about chiropractors is they have better understanding of the way the body works and is put together. I thought I was going to need surgery but was glad I got some good advice, it was so bad I had a hard time sleeping because of the pain, hard to get comfortable. If it is the same thing that I had it will work and should start feeling better in a week. Let me know, I hope it works for you.