I've received permission from the mods to make this thread a sticky. All questions or comments regarding keto diets are welcome. Myself, as well as a few others on this board, are well-versed on the subject matter, so fire away!:)
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I've received permission from the mods to make this thread a sticky. All questions or comments regarding keto diets are welcome. Myself, as well as a few others on this board, are well-versed on the subject matter, so fire away!:)
Lets get it started. :beerbang:
So why do you think refeeds are more beneficial then a single cheat meal (which a few on here I think believe in, or that Dave suggests) when on a keto diet?
[quote=SBT;148161]So why do you think refeeds are more beneficial then a single cheat meal (which a few on here I think believe in, or that Dave suggests) when on a keto diet?[/quote]
I think once you're very lean this is an option. However I also think it depends on your body and your level of activity. It should be experimented with. If you're getting fantastic results with one cheat meal, WHY do more? I believe in using the least amount of carbs to get the job done, and if it's getting done, adding more is not beneficial IMO.
This is best left to personal experimentation, being patient and noting the results in a methodical way. Start with one carb meal if you're lean. Add in a second and do that for 2-3 weeks. Are your results better? No? Then go back to one meal. Yes? Great, 2 meals is now what you should use. Perhaps then as you progress try 3 meals, note results over the next few weeks. Improvement? Yes? Keep it. No? Go back to 2 meals, etc. If you start slowing fat loss then you've gone too far and you should go back to what you were doing previously. This is your "sweet spot" for now.
I'm very much against going from one cheat meal and then BAM doing an entire cheat day. Too much of a jump. What if a half day is better? You don't know. There's no process involved here to really find out the best way.
There's no way to say "this is definitely the amount you should do and it works for everyone." So this type of experimenting is important in learning what works for your body.
For fat guys, I highly recommend against more than a single meal per week.
[QUOTE=Frosty;148338]I think once you're very lean this is an option. However I also think it depends on your body and your level of activity. It should be experimented with. If you're getting fantastic results with one cheat meal, WHY do more? I believe in using the least amount of carbs to get the job done, and if it's getting done, adding more is not beneficial IMO.
This is best left to personal experimentation, being patient and noting the results in a methodical way. Start with one carb meal if you're lean. Add in a second and do that for 2-3 weeks. Are your results better? No? Then go back to one meal. Yes? Great, 2 meals is now what you should use. Perhaps then as you progress try 3 meals, note results over the next few weeks. Improvement? Yes? Keep it. No? Go back to 2 meals, etc. If you start slowing fat loss then you've gone too far and you should go back to what you were doing previously. This is your "sweet spot" for now.
I'm very much against going from one cheat meal and then BAM doing an entire cheat day. Too much of a jump. What if a half day is better? You don't know. There's no process involved here to really find out the best way.
There's no way to say "this is definitely the amount you should do and it works for everyone." So this type of experimenting is important in learning what works for your body.
For fat guys, I highly recommend against more than a single meal per week.[/QUOTE]
Perfectly stated, bro. Glad to have you as part of the team:):beerbang:
I can chime in on the meal. I used the one meal Dave allowed as an excuse to pig out. It didn't affect me the first few weeks, but I gained 4 lbs the last two weeks, and did not cheat any other time other than the cheat meal.
Dave advised me to cut the cheat meal down to a reasonable size meal, and I was up zero pounds the next morning (this past weekend).
I agree, the least amount of carbs needed to stoke the fire, the better. Hopefully this will get me back on track of losing a lb or two a week!
what are some of the number thats people have lost in the first week or second week on the diet...or if you lost any.
Is there a way to speed up getting into ketosis? I find that if I have my cheat on Saturday night I don't get into ketosis until Wednesday.
[quote=GirlyMuscle;148409]Is there a way to speed up getting into ketosis? I find that if I have my cheat on Saturday night I don't get into ketosis until Wednesday.[/quote]
I would not worry about being in ketosis as much as just being in a deficient when it comes to consuming calories. Also the longer you use the diet the more efficient your body becomes at entering a keto state.
[QUOTE=Quadzilla02;148391]what are some of the number thats people have lost in the first week or second week on the diet...or if you lost any.[/QUOTE]
I lost 4 the first week, and only 1 the second week.
I hear of people losing lots more than that, but I was pretty happy with the results because I was not on low cal keto.
Hi Myth
Great to see you over here, i was just wanting to know what you recommend in regards to off season carb cycling? Such as how many carbs per lb and which meals.
Im currently taking in Meal1 PostWO1 and PostWO2 with carbs figured based on BW divided by 3 split between these meals
Do you recommend skiploading or smaller carb refeeds in the offseason?
Thanks in advance!
[QUOTE=Frizzy;148440]I would not worry about being in ketosis as much as just being in a deficient when it comes to consuming calories. Also the longer you use the diet the more efficient your body becomes at entering a keto state.[/QUOTE]
The reason I ask is I deal with cravings and headaches until I'm in ketosis so I'm trying to minimize them. The faster I'm in ketosis, the longer I feel good.
[quote=Dan;148479]Hi Myth
Great to see you over here, i was just wanting to know what you recommend in regards to off season carb cycling? Such as how many carbs per lb and which meals.
Im currently taking in Meal1 PostWO1 and PostWO2 with carbs figured based on BW divided by 3 split between these meals
Do you recommend skiploading or smaller carb refeeds in the offseason?
Thanks in advance![/quote]
I believe myth suggest LBM x .75-1g carbs Meal 1 PWO,PWO2. As for refeed I think 1 meal last meal of the day to keep the fat at away and your metabolism primed.
1 big yams for me it enough, sunday before bed, if i touch simple carbs i come crazy n wont stop so... Complex carbs with nothing else in moderate amount, full me up real good
[quote=GirlyMuscle;148409]Is there a way to speed up getting into ketosis? I find that if I have my cheat on Saturday night I don't get into ketosis until Wednesday.[/quote]
Leucine. 5g per meal for at least the first few meals the day after the cheat.
My cheat meal I'm eating right now:
2 double Whoppers
1 brownie
5 York Peppermint Patties
1 12oz bag of Hershey's Miniatures
6 Strawberry Eclair bars
[quote=Frizzy;148490]I believe myth suggest LBM x .75-1g carbs Meal 1 PWO,PWO2. As for refeed I think 1 meal last meal of the day to keep the fat at away and your metabolism primed.[/quote]
Am I right in guessing this is done say every 7 days or so?
[quote=Dan;149039]Am I right in guessing this is done say every 7 days or so?[/quote]
Yeah once a week is good for most people.
About not getting back to ketosis:
I read that dave suggest that women do not eat more than 100g of carbs in the cheat meal. I've tried that. I didn't have cravings or headaches the next day. That being said I've had better results having a bigger amount of carbs. Cravings the next day, yes, but a bigger fatloss..
[quote=Kolbe;149103]About not getting back to ketosis:
I read that dave suggest that women do not eat more than 100g of carbs in the cheat meal. I've tried that. I didn't have cravings or headaches the next day. That being said I've had better results having a bigger amount of carbs. Cravings the next day, yes, but a bigger fatloss..[/quote]
Me personally I seem to get better results with bigger cheats. The pic in my avatar I was a bit under 10% but I did get leaner from there...veins in lower abs and striated triceps. My cheats were sometimes absolutely terrible. Once was a grocery bag full of candy bars (ugh!). But I sure did get lean.
I had an embarrassing moment at work one time where I did a cheat meal on a Saturday and I ate so much that I was in the bathroom trying to make myself throw up because I was in so much pain from eating too much. I had to tell my boss I felt sick and threw up and went home and went to sleep. Another time I was over someone's place for a BBQ and I ate so much I was in the bathroom heaving (although not throwing up). Yeah...that's too far. But still I got in good shape! LOL
I've since learned to control that more without stuffing myself painfully, but I still eat a lot (like my cheat meal I just had and listed).
[QUOTE=Frosty;148847]Leucine. 5g per meal for at least the first few meals the day after the cheat.[/QUOTE]
and how leucine will do that? im curious ...
thk u
hi to all im on my 2nd week of keto and i havent droped a pound but but fat level has gone down a lot,i mean i could grab fat around the waist line big time now i have almost nothing does this make sence??i do have to say ive started test this week too,by the way has anyone calculated how many calories a 200lb person needs on keto??thanks
[quote=Frosty;148860]My cheat meal I'm eating right now:
2 double Whoppers
1 brownie
5 York Peppermint Patties
1 12oz bag of Hershey's Miniatures
6 Strawberry Eclair bars[/quote]
Nice :] I would stay away from the whoppers though to much fat for me :(!
My last one was...
1.3 Onion Bagels with FF cream cheese(strawberry)
2.3 Big mixing bowls if assorted kids cereal whole grain.
3.1 failed attempt at home made pizza but I scarfed it down.
4.Home made nacho chilli fries.
5.Low fat ice Cream with brownies & french toast
[quote=LANCE SPENCER;149323]hi to all im on my 2nd week of keto and i havent droped a pound but but fat level has gone down a lot,i mean i could grab fat around the waist line big time now i have almost nothing does this make sence??i do have to say ive started test this week too,by the way has anyone calculated how many calories a 200lb person needs on keto??thanks[/quote]
What is your Lbm?
im just under 220lb at 5,11
What % body fat?
no idea but i can see my abbs a little,hope that helps
[quote=-BLP-;149208]and how leucine will do that? im curious ...
thk u[/quote]
Insulin.
[quote=Frizzy;149471]Nice :] I would stay away from the whoppers though to much fat for me :(!
My last one was...
1.3 Onion Bagels with FF cream cheese(strawberry)
2.3 Big mixing bowls if assorted kids cereal whole grain.
3.1 failed attempt at home made pizza but I scarfed it down.
4.Home made nacho chilli fries.
5.Low fat ice Cream with brownies & french toast[/quote]
I prefer my cheats to have good amounts of fat. I crave fats and I feel they're more productive for me this way.
Hello Frosty and Myth.
I have ran the keto diet twice. 1st 12 weeks I lost 25 lbs and 6 inches off my waist. 2nd 12 week run I lost 6 lbs and 0 inches off my waist. Ran the exact same protocol.
Only time I have to train and do cardio is between 4:45 to 6:15 am. I have a family that need me at night. I wake up at 3:30am to take pre-workout drink and "grow a tail".
With only an hour and a half per day to train and do cardio I don't have the option to increase cardio (unless I cut back on training).
Should I lower calories, cut out cheat meals, or reduce training to drop fat.
FYI. I run a tech support dept so I sit on my ass most of the day.
Stats: 229lbs 5'8 at about 20% bf.
[QUOTE=gman;148372]I can chime in on the meal. I used the one meal Dave allowed as an excuse to pig out. It didn't affect me the first few weeks, but I gained 4 lbs the last two weeks, and did not cheat any other time other than the cheat meal.
Dave advised me to cut the cheat meal down to a reasonable size meal, and I was up zero pounds the next morning (this past weekend).
I agree, the least amount of carbs needed to stoke the fire, the better. Hopefully this will get me back on track of losing a lb or two a week![/QUOTE]
You shouldn't be worried about water gain after a refeed day bro. I consistently gain 18-25lb post-refeed and drop it all 3-4 days later, and end up lighter than the week before. We are all different, so you must experiment.
MY GOAL OF A REFEED IS TO SHOOT FOR A POINT THAT ALLOWS ME TO SIMULTANEOUSLY CONSUME THE [U]HIGHEST NUMBER OF CARBS [/U]POSSIBLE WHILE YIELDING THE [U]OPTIMAL EFFICIENCY[/U], IN TERMS OF FAT LOSS, METABOLIC ELEVATION, GLYCOGEN STORAGE, ETC...ALL WITH THE MINIMUM AMOUNT OF FAT DEPOSITION.
To be honest, any substantial amount of fat gain resulting from a single refeed day or cheat meal is virtually neglible/impossible. Even if I do gain some fat from that ONE day, to me it is like taing one step back in rder to progress 5 steps forward. As opposed to a single measly cheat meal, whereby I would be taking 0 steps back, but only 1-2 steps forward. :)
[QUOTE=Quadzilla02;148391]what are some of the number thats people have lost in the first week or second week on the diet...or if you lost any.[/QUOTE]
Answers will inevitably have a huge variance, so there really is no point in taking heed to anyone else's results. I would say that some of the main variables that affect weight loss/gain at the onset of the keto diet are: your diet prior to keto (carbs, calories, meal frequency, macro composition, etc), training experience, supplementation, "other" supplementation, etc. That is why, for example, one 200lb man cannot expect the same results following the same diet as another 200lb man, as everyone's biochemistry is unique.
That is why I like to use the following formula as a baseline for keto macros: [B][COLOR="Red"].25g protein and .1g fat per pound lean body mass eaten every 2.5-3hrs one is awake.[/COLOR][/B]
Then you would simply adjust FATS up or down from there after assessing progress every couple weeks.
[QUOTE=Dan;148479]Hi Myth
Great to see you over here, i was just wanting to know what you recommend in regards to off season carb cycling? Such as how many carbs per lb and which meals.
Im currently taking in Meal1 PostWO1 and PostWO2 with carbs figured based on BW divided by 3 split between these meals
Do you recommend skiploading or smaller carb refeeds in the offseason?
Thanks in advance![/QUOTE]
3 carb meals is good. If you want to carb cycle, I would start with AVERAGING .75-1g carb per pound LBM. Example: my LBM=180, so I would average 150g carbs per day. Then if I wanted to cycle carbs, I would keep the same 150g average, but make my high day 200g and my low day 100g.
Yes I recommend refeeds in the offseason or onseason. Obviously your refeed days wont need to be as intense (carb-dense) as when you are cutting, but they still need to be implemented, nonetheless, to keep fat levels at bay (by stoking the metabolism) and restocking glycogen (especially if carb cycling).
[QUOTE=GirlyMuscle;148409]Is there a way to speed up getting into ketosis? I find that if I have my cheat on Saturday night I don't get into ketosis until Wednesday.[/QUOTE]
Personally I always do a long slow duration cardio session the day after, such as hiking for a few hours, running a half marathon, biking 30 miles, etc. Works every time;)
[QUOTE=Frosty;149114]Me personally I seem to get better results with bigger cheats. The pic in my avatar I was a bit under 10% but I did get leaner from there...veins in lower abs and striated triceps. My cheats were sometimes absolutely terrible. Once was a grocery bag full of candy bars (ugh!). But I sure did get lean.
I had an embarrassing moment at work one time where I did a cheat meal on a Saturday and I ate so much that I was in the bathroom trying to make myself throw up because I was in so much pain from eating too much. I had to tell my boss I felt sick and threw up and went home and went to sleep. Another time I was over someone's place for a BBQ and I ate so much I was in the bathroom heaving (although not throwing up). Yeah...that's too far. But still I got in good shape! LOL
I've since learned to control that more without stuffing myself painfully, but I still eat a lot (like my cheat meal I just had and listed).[/QUOTE]
I've been thru the exact same thing bro. Now I have finally learned how to eat till I am on the verge of being uncomfortable, but not quite. It's truly an art to know how far to push yourself:)
[QUOTE=Frosty;149639]I prefer my cheats to have good amounts of fat. I crave fats and I feel they're more productive for me this way.[/QUOTE]
What would you estimate your macro composition to be for your cheats? Do you just have single meal or all day dirty cheats? Also, do you have a fast metabolism? Or have you conditioned yourself in such a way?
[quote=Myth;150752]
What would you estimate your macro composition to be for your cheats? Do you just have single meal or all day dirty cheats? Also, do you have a fast metabolism? Or have you conditioned yourself in such a way?[/quote]
I do a single meal, one sitting. I don't have a fast metabolism. I tend to gain or lose weight easily. The macros I have no idea. From the list you can tell it's quite high in fat. I don't usually get very excited over just sugary stuff. The only low fat stuff I like are things like spaghetti, rice, and breads. Fatty stuff is satisfying to me.
[quote=Big Poppa;150688]Hello Frosty and Myth.
I have ran the keto diet twice. 1st 12 weeks I lost 25 lbs and 6 inches off my waist. 2nd 12 week run I lost 6 lbs and 0 inches off my waist. Ran the exact same protocol.
Only time I have to train and do cardio is between 4:45 to 6:15 am. I have a family that need me at night. I wake up at 3:30am to take pre-workout drink and "grow a tail".
With only an hour and a half per day to train and do cardio I don't have the option to increase cardio (unless I cut back on training).
Should I lower calories, cut out cheat meals, or reduce training to drop fat.
FYI. I run a tech support dept so I sit on my ass most of the day.
Stats: 229lbs 5'8 at about 20% bf.[/quote]
The answer depends on your current diet. Would you mind posting it exactly (amounts and everything) so we can help?
Pre-Contest, when do you guys take cheat meals out completely? Currently, I am 3 weeks out this Saturday. My original plan was that last Friday night's cheat meal would be my last, however I still lost 1.5 lbs this week and I read somewhere that you do not need to take cheat meals out if you are still losing weight. Should I go ahead and have a cheat meal this Friday then? Or maybe should I eat carbs for one meal, just not "cheat" foods? Or should I stick with my plan and not do cheats anymore?
Thanks in advance,
Chad
[QUOTE=reutacris;151325]Pre-Contest, when do you guys take cheat meals out completely? Currently, I am 3 weeks out this Saturday. My original plan was that last Friday night's cheat meal would be my last, however I still lost 1.5 lbs this week and I read somewhere that you do not need to take cheat meals out if you are still losing weight. Should I go ahead and have a cheat meal this Friday then? Or maybe should I eat carbs for one meal, just not "cheat" foods? Or should I stick with my plan and not do cheats anymore?
Thanks in advance,
Chad[/QUOTE]
I don't believe in cheat meals; I believe in refeed meals. I don't drop them before a contest; I increase them as I near a contest.
Contemplate this: one of the main reasons you are still dropping weight is the cheat meal, so would it make sense to drop the cheat meal at ANY point in the diet if you are still losing weight? Of course not! If it aint broke, don't fix it:)
And to add to that, do what's been working this far. Don't go changing things if it's working. That's how people get messed up before a show by tweaking all kinds of shit that was working just great.
[QUOTE=Frizzy;149471]Nice :] I would stay away from the whoppers though to much fat for me :(!
My last one was...
1.3 Onion Bagels with FF cream cheese(strawberry)
2.3 Big mixing bowls if assorted kids cereal whole grain.
3.1 failed attempt at home made pizza but I scarfed it down.
4.Home made nacho chilli fries.
5.Low fat ice Cream with brownies & french toast[/QUOTE]
failed attempt omg that happen to me , your so piss and eat it anw LOL
Did anyone try the leucine with meals? It tastes horrible and i dont wanna be consuming 20g a day if it doesnt put into ketosis faster =)
Leucine is an awesome supplement that is worth every penny. It is extremely solid and does great things, especially on this type of diet when trying to cut. I do 5g with 3 meals separated. This is every day. Only after a cheat do I do extra leucine.
A quick rundown of my diet is..
1- 45g wpi w/ 1tbs anpb
2- 3 eggs 4 whites
3- 8oz chicken, 1/3 cup almonds or cashews
4- 45g wpi w/ 1tbs anpb
5- 8oz red meat or fish w/ salad & oil n vinegar
6- 3 hard boiled eggs with 4 egg whites
so i should add leucine to meals 1 4 and 6 and on the day after the cheat it should be 1-6?