test prop/ t bol ?

[tammyp]

PRIVATE QUESTION ASKED BY PM


I am having some issues and I was wondering if you gear me in the right direction. I am in wk 4 of a 10wk cycle of Test prop and t-bol. My dosages are 12mg test prop EOD, 20mg tbol ED split into 10mg am/pm. In March my BF was 19% and weight was 157. Today I am not sure of the BF but my weight has jumped to 175. My diet is dialed in with 5 meals a day, 3 solids and 2 shakes, 3 on workout days. Taking in plenty of water as well. had some constipation about a week ago and to take drastic measures after sugar free candy did nothing. had 2 days of correctol to get it to move. I am concerned about the weight as I know it is not muscle as my pants that were a size 6 I can't get into and my 8's are starting to fit real snug as well. My husband wanted me to research letro dosages to counter sides. I am dropping the tbol down to 10mg split to 5/5 to start. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for taking the time.

[sassy69]

Prop will make you hold some water and obviously you're going to be building some mass w/ it as well. At 19%, the extra muscle + water can make you look more thick than lean. Also because you arent' taking your bodyfat you can't honestly tell where you have muscle & where you have fat unless you look at the specific pinch points to compare. (Even that is rough estimate but it does give you some locational insight.) If you tend to gain fat in your waist/hips/thighs very possible this is why your pants are tighter.

Also you cite your weight / bf in March but its now 3 months later, not 4 weeks later (since you started your cycle) so do you know what your weight was when you started the cycle?

What is your diet? Specifically. Total cals, etc. Are you trying to cut or bulk or what?

[TheMrs]

My weight and BF were the same when I started cycle. My diet is around 1700-1800 cals. 40%P - 30%C - 30%F. I eat very clean with a carb cheat 2-3 times a month. Doing cardio twice a week and weight training 3 days a week. The cardio is interval training on the elliptical. So going for BF loss. I was training for a marathon but my spine will not allow me to run so I stopped the training. Yes I do gain weight in my mid section and rear first. My hubby said I was trippin but wanted me to be satisfied and do the research. After all my reading I am feeling better about what is going on. It was just scary. Hubby told me to stay off the scale which I know I should but it is a very hard habit to break. I will make him hide it so I can't get on it. I so appreciate all you are doing to help me out on this.

[Stavman]

How do you measure 12 mgs of test prop?

[sassy69]

I think you're just looking at the inevitable mass gain w/ a cycle. Not only are you cycling, you're stacking, and w/ an aromatizing compound. So you have to expect some water gain and 'thickness' when you're > 12-14% bf. Also you're not training on a heavy schedule - for compare I train at least 6 days / week all the time. Off season I don't do much cardio, or sporadically because I really hate it, and my weight will settle in at something that is 'thick'.

The biggest thing is just to realize that you are cycling and you're going to gain mass. Its not going to be ripped up lean mass if you aren't already very lean and following a very strict diet (well depending also on your general metabolism and mass/fat depositing tendencies). I'm not sure I would've chosen prop as a cycle specifically for fat loss. But you are making changes in your overall body composition by adding muscle mass. It will just come w/ some fat & water retention as well.

Given your cycle choice I would probably use things like strength gain and trend in quality of lifts as my units of 'progress measure'. The scale is "a number" if you feel the need to look at it, but you have to reconcile what you are doing w/ your expectations. Otherwise you are in for a serious mindfuck.

[sassy69]

How do you measure 12 mgs of test prop?

I'm gonna guess insulin pin....

[Ninja Loco]

I have never seen water gains with Test Prop. As a matter of fact that's why we use it and put up with the pain and pinning every day because the gains are so dry. Enanthate, on the other hand, is known for water weight gain. This is interesting Sassy. Could be just a result of a different gender. Im learning a lot from you guys as far as women and AAS.

It's the T-bol in this stack Im not sure about. Are we talking about a Prohormone, or one of those "designer steroids"? Doesnt matter, they're all prohormones. Ive never seen anyone hold on to much of the gains from a PH, and I know most of those do make you retain water. That is why I steer clear away and wont use them even if they were given to me free.

[Stavman]

I have never seen water gains with Test Prop. As a matter of fact that's why we use it and put up with the pain and pinning every day because the gains are so dry. Enanthate, on the other hand, is known for water weight gain. This is interesting Sassy. Could be just a result of a different gender. Im learning a lot from you guys as far as women and AAS.

It's the T-bol in this stack Im not sure about. Are we talking about a Prohormone, or one of those "designer steroids"? Doesnt matter, they're all prohormones. Ive never seen anyone hold on to much of the gains from a PH, and I know most of those do make you retain water. That is why I steer clear away and wont use them even if they were given to me free.

T-bol is Turanabol. It is an anabolic steroid vatto.

[TheMrs]

I'm gonna guess insulin pin....

Yes in an insulin pin. An thank you for the info.

[Ninja Loco]

T-bol is Turanabol. It is an anabolic steroid vatto.

Ah. We got something in the form of a PH at the gym called T-bol or T-stack... got confused cause they all sort of give them the same names with the dashes. Carry on.

[sassy69]

T-bol is oral turinabol. Its very similar to anavar in its action, but a little slower bringing gains.

RE: Prop - I'm suggesting there's potential water retention because it does convert, Not saying its a lot.

Generally if you're not lean and you're cycling, your going to end up 'thicker'. Its not all water retention, its not all fat, there's definitely some mass gain. So just expect it.

[Tre]

I have never seen water gains with Test Prop. As a matter of fact that's why we use it and put up with the pain and pinning every day because the gains are so dry. Enanthate, on the other hand, is known for water weight gain. This is interesting Sassy. Could be just a result of a different gender. Im learning a lot from you guys as far as women and AAS.

Men and women use the same stuff, but my money says that, absent any other compounds, gender is probably the main reason you didn't experience any water retention on prop, while Sassy said women can expect it.

I know a lot of AAS users have contempt for prohormones, but they've got their place in our culture, too. Sure, there's a LOT of fake crap in that market (long story!), but the legit stuff does what it's supposed to do, which is to provide mass and strength gains for those who aren't willing (yet) to go to that next level.

The reason the gains typically don't last long after a PH 'cycle' is that the users don't take in enough calories. If you lift heavy and eat, you're going to retain a lot of the muscle that you put on with the help of prohormones.

[sassy69]

Also women commonly retain water on anavar so I don't see why they couldn't also on t-bol. Neither converts, but water retention is not uncommon.

[Ninja Loco]

Men and women use the same stuff, but my money says that, absent any other compounds, gender is probably the main reason you didn't experience any water retention on prop, while Sassy said women can expect it.

Exactly, I was referring to gender as far as the different experiences in sides/

I know a lot of AAS users have contempt for prohormones, but they've got their place in our culture, too. Sure, there's a LOT of fake crap in that market (long story!), but the legit stuff does what it's supposed to do, which is to provide mass and strength gains for those who aren't willing (yet) to go to that next level.

Personal contempt based on experience. Never said they didnt have their place for anybody else.

The reason the gains typically don't last long after a PH 'cycle' is that the users don't take in enough calories. If you lift heavy and eat, you're going to retain a lot of the muscle that you put on with the help of prohormones.

Never seen it but I will take your word for it.

[Sistersteel]

Water retention and bloat are the result of an increase in free flowing estrogen. Supplementing with testosterone in a premenopausal woman without the use of an AI WILL make you fatter. Reason being: the increase in testosterone will result in an increase in estrogen so that the body can attain a homeostatic state. A pre menopasual woman has functional ovaries that will continue to produce estrogen along with the amount of estrogen produced through aromatization.

Letro is WAY too strong. It will dry out her joints and she will be in excruciating pain in no time. Not to mention it speeds up the onset of osteoporosis.

If she is using the test to bulk, I would NOT worry about the fat gain. She can take care of that once she diets down. You do not want to run anti Es and AIs for extended periods of time. Adex is the better choice of AI for those who wish to use test while dieting down...which I do not recommend.

SS