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  1. #1
    OLYMPIAN Joshua H's Avatar
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    Default Does this make sense?

    I am working with a HRT specialist out of Florida and he has now.... based on my last set of labs and personal HH profile decided to put me on HCG and Danazol. I have read up on both of these in the past and recently via what I found in Anabolics 2007 textbook.

    I cannot see why I am being put on Danazol given its "anti-gonadotropin like effects?

    The dose protocol of these two drugs I am not sure on yet, thats yet to come. But at $100 some bucks for 8 weeks I am iffy as to why I would pay that for something with such little to no utility in helping with getting total and free T levels back into acceptable ranges?

    Should I question this Rx and get more insights before paying?

  2. #2
    Hormone Replacement Therapy M.D. Dr. Joel Nathan's Avatar
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    The HCG, if given in high enough dosage is a way to increase your own manufacturing of testosterone. Because you are making your own testosterone, there is not the testicular shrinking that can occur with testosterone injection. Some docs combine a regimen of intramuscular testosterone with low dose HCG to help stop testicular shrinkage.

    In my experience, use of HCG alone to increase testosterone levels does work but it does not raise levels as high as when testosterone injections are given.

    You need to question your doc about the danazol. In my protocols, I suggest low dose anastrozol to keep estrogen levels in check.

    If you have further questions, feel free to PM me or write me on my website.

    Regards,
    Joel Nathan, MD

  3. #3
    OLYMPIAN Joshua H's Avatar
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    After 6 weeks on 3 days a week of 100iu HCG along with 25mg Danazol my TT went from 668 to 896 while my FT went from 9.2 to 19.2

    Estradiol went from 4.9 to 31.9

    Weight has only fluxed 3lbs since starting the cycle. Just wrapped up Monday this week with both. I have a phone consult follow up with the HRT specialist tomorrow afternoon to discuss where we go now.

  4. #4
    Hormone Replacement Therapy M.D. Dr. Joel Nathan's Avatar
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    Joshua,
    You had an excellent result with the HCG. Just keep an eye on the estrogen levels. If they raise above normal, ask your doc about getting on Arimidex. The Arimidex wlll cut down on estrogen production. As men, we all need some estrogen for increased resistance to heart attack.

  5. #5
    OLYMPIAN Joshua H's Avatar
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    Yes very happy indeed with the rise in numbers we saw. Feel better to so that's good of course. Now its 3 weeks off everything to see how my body goes off on its own for a while. Then we check levels again and see what happened. If all is well, were smooth sailing and the kick start with the HCG did the trick.

  6. #6
    OLYMPIAN M4BTEAM's Avatar
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    I wish more people would get their bloodwork checked regularly. Great to see such studious monitoring.
    ** Power up Your muscles up with www.M4B.is **
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  7. #7
    FREAK TheRage93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Joel Nathan View Post
    The HCG, if given in high enough dosage is a way to increase your own manufacturing of testosterone. Because you are making your own testosterone, there is not the testicular shrinking that can occur with testosterone injection. Some docs combine a regimen of intramuscular testosterone with low dose HCG to help stop testicular shrinkage.

    In my experience, use of HCG alone to increase testosterone levels does work but it does not raise levels as high as when testosterone injections are given.

    You need to question your doc about the danazol. In my protocols, I suggest low dose anastrozol to keep estrogen levels in check.

    If you have further questions, feel free to PM me or write me on my website.

    Regards,
    Joel Nathan, MD
    Yea. What he said!

  8. #8
    Hormone Replacement Therapy M.D. Dr. Joel Nathan's Avatar
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    Yes.

  9. #9
    OLYMPIAN Joshua H's Avatar
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    Default 6 months follow up and updates

    IMAG1676.jpg
    labs 8 12 13.jpg
    IMAG1677.jpg

    Had labs done again earlier this month and sadly not so good. After going off HCG at the end of Feb and then just using once daily application of Axiron (60mg daily) from then until just before (a couple days) the last set of labs (attached). My total T is back down, Free T is way down, SHGB is higher then ever, T3 is a hair under clinical normal levels and my serum VD is pretty low to. Weight gain has again stalled to a creep at best (mind you my job involves fitness classes and group exercise leads which does not help in weight gain efforts for an ecto)

    All that said my HRT Doc out of FL is again working with me to see what we can do to remedy the situation. For the next month starting today (meds came today) he has me on:

    • clomiphene citrate 50mg EOD
    • armour thyroid 30mg daily
    • DHEA 30mg daily
    • VD3 4000IU daily + 20 minutes direct sunlight w/o sunscreen if possible most days


    I do not question or have concerns over the Rx he has given me as he explained it well to me on the phone. I simply want you Dr. Nathan, to weigh in on your thoughts to my labs, not so much the Rx made unless you see a glaring issue with that of course.
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  10. #10
    OLYMPIAN Joshua H's Avatar
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    Default injectable aminos?

    Dr Nathan, whats your thoughts on this product? I was given it as a sample item from the medical organization that does my HRT for me. Not sure what the perk of a injectable amino acid is over an oraly injected one? Faster uptake perhaps? Doubt its any major significant difference though would it be?

    vial 1.jpgvial 2.jpg
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  11. #11
    Hormone Replacement Therapy M.D. Dr. Joel Nathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua H View Post
    IMAG1676.jpg
    labs 8 12 13.jpg
    IMAG1677.jpg

    Had labs done again earlier this month and sadly not so good. After going off HCG at the end of Feb and then just using once daily application of Axiron (60mg daily) from then until just before (a couple days) the last set of labs (attached). My total T is back down, Free T is way down, SHGB is higher then ever, T3 is a hair under clinical normal levels and my serum VD is pretty low to. Weight gain has again stalled to a creep at best (mind you my job involves fitness classes and group exercise leads which does not help in weight gain efforts for an ecto)

    All that said my HRT Doc out of FL is again working with me to see what we can do to remedy the situation. For the next month starting today (meds came today) he has me on:

    • clomiphene citrate 50mg EOD
    • armour thyroid 30mg daily
    • DHEA 30mg daily
    • VD3 4000IU daily + 20 minutes direct sunlight w/o sunscreen if possible most days


    I do not question or have concerns over the Rx he has given me as he explained it well to me on the phone. I simply want you Dr. Nathan, to weigh in on your thoughts to my labs, not so much the Rx made unless you see a glaring issue with that of course.
    Yes, your testosterone is not optimal. The estrogen is too low. We need some estrogen for cardio protection.

    By the way, DHEA is an over the counter supplement and is non-prescription.

  12. #12
    Hormone Replacement Therapy M.D. Dr. Joel Nathan's Avatar
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    Intramuscular administration of amino acids is an interesting idea but unless one's GI tract has a hard time absorbing aminos, it is probably not an essential supplement. The arginine may give people a rush of energy (but so does the oral form).
    I would be curious what the doctor says is the advantage of this IM form of amino acids over oral intake.

  13. #13
    OLYMPIAN Joshua H's Avatar
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    Doc,

    I have recently had some deep convo with my HRT doc and we recently made the call to try and get me OFF HRT. I have my reasons for why but I wont bore anyone with that now.

    The protocol he is using to to bring me off is as follows:

    stop T injections cold (from 200mg cyp a week) to nothing. I am going to do 50mg clomephine per day for 3 weeks as well as 150iu HCG EOD.

    His thoughts as explained to me is to kickstart both my pituitary and my testies into action for 3 good weeks while off test then give it a week more to do more labs. this will make for 5 weeks total off HRT before new labs are taken. If values are holding in the high 600's and I feel OK he is confident I can remain off HRT for several years given my age of 30 and otherwise perfect health.

    I am still doing 60mg armour thyroid per day and 2mg arimidex a week as well.

    My last labs had total T at 786 and free at 138. Estradiol at 34, SHBG not tested.

    How does this sound to you as a means to come off TRT?

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