Question on EQ

[JuliaProteina]

Hi girls,

I will have my first show in October, have been into training seriously for 2 years now - my new coach just made my new programme and I am a bit concerned that the dosis is a little too high. Also I am pretty much a first time user (the only thing I tried before is Anavar and Clen). So the first weeks would be 250 mg EQ per week + 20 mg Winstrol per day. I do trust my coach but from the research I did, I feel this dosis is way too high??? I am also really concerned about the side effects.

Just wanted to get your thoughts on this?

Thanks,
JP

[JAce]

That seems like an incredibly high dose regardless of what type of competition your doing. As far as Eq goes, its a long acting ester and that does would create a concentration level of over 600mg by week 4 due to the 14 day half life. It also takes about 15 weeks for 75% of that blood level to clear your system, that;s a lot of stuff in your system for a long time. I like Eq and keep the dose that puts the concentration level at 3mg per Kg of my starting body weight. At 132-135lbs that has me at 75mg a week. I hate Winny, did it once for 3 weeks and bailed out so I can't comment there.

[sassy69]

Yea that's kinda high. I'd be asking WHY that dose? What is the gain over lower and why not lower? What does your diet look like (are you eating to grow right now becaues that's a hella bulking cycle and if you're not eating to support that and expecting the drugs to do the work, then I call BS on the whole protocol) and what category are you competing in?

[JuliaProteina]

Thanks for the replies. I am 22 weeks out, the actual diet will start 17 weeks out (5 months before) - I still don't have a lot of muscle mass and his explanation is to do EQ and Winstrol before the actual contest diet starts to see if I can still add some quality muscle mass. Food for the next month and throughout the whole contest diet will be old-school high carb/low fat. After the EQ and Winstrol, I will switch to Anavar and Primo + Clen.

I will be competing bodybuilding in Asia where girls are not that big, so if I am lean enough then I will be able to make a top 3 placing easily. I don't want to question my coach since he is also helping me for free but at the same time I don't want to kill myself and have all this crazy side effects.

[sassy69]

Thanks for the replies. I am 22 weeks out, the actual diet will start 17 weeks out (5 months before) - I still don't have a lot of muscle mass and his explanation is to do EQ and Winstrol before the actual contest diet starts to see if I can still add some quality muscle mass. Food for the next month and throughout the whole contest diet will be old-school high carb/low fat. After the EQ and Winstrol, I will switch to Anavar and Primo + Clen.

I will be competing bodybuilding in Asia where girls are not that big, so if I am lean enough then I will be able to make a top 3 placing easily. I don't want to question my coach since he is also helping me for free but at the same time I don't want to kill myself and have all this crazy side effects.

When someone, ANYONE, is telling you to inject yourself w/ controlled substances, ALWAYS ASK. I've met so many very well-respected (male) coaches who recommended retardedly high cycles to women... Until those guys have a vagina, I say its respecting yourself to ask these questions and judge if the people suggesting these cycles are full of shit or not. Usually they are. The hormone profile simply does not work the same for women as it does for guys. It just doesn't. Especially for women its more important to find the sweet spot and not just fucking bomb your body w/ a gram of male hormones.

I always look at the total amount of drugs / week - at 250 mg/week EQ + 20mg win x 7/ week, you're already at 400 mg. IMO that's fucking hefty, esp for someone who has never done either of these. I'd normally tell you to cap it at 200 mg/ week as an UPPER level.

ASK HIM. Its not an insult to him - its respect for yourself. YOUR body, YOUR results, YOUR sides. Not his. If he can't give you a decent answer then he's pulling shit out of his ass and it is only going to hurt you, Not him. Knowledge is power!

[Steve56]

When someone, ANYONE, is telling you to inject yourself w/ controlled substances, ALWAYS ASK. I've met so many very well-respected (male) coaches who recommended retardedly high cycles to women... Until those guys have a vagina, I say its respecting yourself to ask these questions and judge if the people suggesting these cycles are full of shit or not. Usually they are. The hormone profile simply does not work the same for women as it does for guys. It just doesn't. Especially for women its more important to find the sweet spot and not just fucking bomb your body w/ a gram of male hormones.

I always look at the total amount of drugs / week - at 250 mg/week EQ + 20mg win x 7/ week, you're already at 400 mg. IMO that's fucking hefty, esp for someone who has never done either of these. I'd normally tell you to cap it at 200 mg/ week as an UPPER level.

ASK HIM. Its not an insult to him - its respect for yourself. YOUR body, YOUR results, YOUR sides. Not his. If he can't give you a decent answer then he's pulling shit out of his ass and it is only going to hurt you, Not him. Knowledge is power!

Excellent post!

[JuliaProteina]

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate your fast comments. If you are still not that experienced with the world of bodybuilding then it is difficult to judge sometimes what is too much - especially when you want it so bad. Will sit down with him these days and share my concerns - I think if he is a good coach then he should respect that. If he doesn't, then I am properly better off on my own...

[sassy69]

Here's a great place to start to educate yourself: http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthrea...omen-amp-Drugs

There is very little published for women + drugs to go do simple research, so you're starting w/ extremely limited resources to begin with. Then there are plenty of guys out there who have a lot of experience w/ their own cycling and frequently have the best intentions at heart w/ helping women - but IMO they tend to think in terms of male cycles, and when you consider the ratio of male to female proportion of natural testosterone levels, it is orders of magnitude different. As such, the impact of a very small amount of test can have orders of magnitude more effect on women. But then it is also complicated by the female body's response because it is estrogen-dominant. A lot of this is discussed in the above article.

There's no hard & fast rule about cycling - every time you put something into your system, it is your very own personal chemistry project. Especially for women, effects are very individual - there are no guarantees on how you respond, as well as additional issues of more frequently used home brew or basically just not pharmaceutical grade compounds being used. The powder-based stuff sold by underground labs is much cheaper, less regulated (not regulated) and its just near impossible to find pharma grade stuff anymore. So then you can't be sure about dosing or sometimes even if the compound is really what the bottle says. A small amount of the wrong thing can produce bad results for women. So it is always your own personal experiment. Then mix in the frequent fact that women are following someone else's advice blindly. Big fat crap shoot as to what the results will be.

IMO 250 mg of EQ is overkill anyway. I think many people find less than 200 mg / week to be a better sweet spot -good returns w/o unnecessary sides. It takes 5 weeks for EQ to hit full saturation anyway. 20 mg of winstrol itself could be considered aggressive as well.

[sassy69]

And just in general, you should be asking questions so you can learn. I've had situations where I was completely dependent on a trainer for all my details, and then he was suddenly unavailable for a week (due to a family tragedy) - and here I am at a critical point in my prep and he's not there to give me my weekly change in diet & training - so I'm left completely shit out of luck in even being able to make a guess at what I should do in response to where I am at. IMO you need to have some knowledge & understanding of what is going on.

Its just good to ask questions. The extremes of contest prep w/o a little common sense leave so many people unnecessarily w/ metabolic issues. This shit affects your fundamental state of health and wellness and people don't realize just how deeplyl this impact can be. Its not rocket science, but in the extreme and not using common sense and listening to your body (and you learning mroe about how your body responds) is really ignorant. Its just an effing show. No one lives or dies based on that show. So keep things in perspective. Don't be afraid to ask questions. If the guy doesn't know or can't answer, he can say he can go research or help point you somewhere to do the research.

[tammyp]

sassy gives some great advice here. you are going to get the side effects, not him. personally, that dose should be cut in half.

[JuliaProteina]

Thanks sassy and all for the comments and insight. Didn't have the time to talk to him yet - but the more I come to think of it I am questioning if he is the right coach at all for me. Probably will approach some of the girls doing contests here and see if they are willing to help me..

I did a lot of research myself too and there is not much on women and steroids, I also find that women do not talk about it as openly as men - even when it is obvious that they take stuff. Anyways thanks again for your feedback.

[s2h]

250mg ew of EQ is way too high...50-75mg ew is more in the range..but i would questions why he is even choosing this drug for what your goals are..

EQ is very slow acting and take's as long or longer then any other drug to clear your system..at that dose virilization will most likely occur and there will nothing you can do to stop it tell the ester clears..and at that point your screwed...

a little side note about coaches espc males that prep females..take a look at the ladies he has prepped..ether in person or via pics..this will give you a pretty good idea of what his mentality is towards women a drugs..if they look like what you dont want to look like..then find a new coach..

[JuliaProteina]

Actually had a talk with him and he considers this a very mild dosage!!! I was like WTF, do you think I am stupid? I have done my own research, thought about it a lot, I will not touch EQ or any other injectable stuff - especially because this my first proper contest prep and I have no idea how my body will react. So I am just gonna stick to the more mild stuff and keep the dosages low. Told him so, and he was kind of pissed of that I question him but whatever I don't care - it's my body and my health.

So far I only had bad luck with my coaches - sometimes I feel I am better off on my own and actually I love creating meal/workout plans and all the stuff. And is so exciting for me to play around with food and training and then see how my body reacts to it.

Anyways, thanks for the advice again!

[sassy69]

Actually had a talk with him and he considers this a very mild dosage!!! I was like WTF, do you think I am stupid? I have done my own research, thought about it a lot, I will not touch EQ or any other injectable stuff - especially because this my first proper contest prep and I have no idea how my body will react. So I am just gonna stick to the more mild stuff and keep the dosages low. Told him so, and he was kind of pissed of that I question him but whatever I don't care - it's my body and my health.

So far I only had bad luck with my coaches - sometimes I feel I am better off on my own and actually I love creating meal/workout plans and all the stuff. And is so exciting for me to play around with food and training and then see how my body reacts to it.

Anyways, thanks for the advice again!

A mild dose for who?? Guys? Top national amateur to pro-level FBBs? Certainly NOT a newb. That's what I mean about "until they have a vagina" - everyone's view of this stuff is relative to what they've seen. I can't speak to what its like to watch my balls shrink or not be able to get off (deca dick) or experience a clomid moment because I don't have that hormone profile. When you look on the discussion on any of the AAS forums out there, there's always parallel discussion about emotional issues, depression, raging, etc. There are some stories of women experiencing depression on EQ as well. But how much of that would you actually hear from people around you cycling it? That stuff can be considered very personal (except on an anonymous AAS forum.. :cP) Especially for women, a small dose of anything can produce big time sides - but its all very individual. And anyone who cycles heavily will probably also tell you there's a sweet spot of dosing instead of "shitloads". "UP THE DOSE!" isn't usually the best answer. I think guys are a lot more cavalier in recommending doses because some of that stuff the women either won't recognize as issues right away, or just won't bring it up because they aren't comfortable talking about it in mixed company.

Anyway - I think its important to own that particular part of prep. Certainly no one dies if you don't do the high dose, and frankly, there's always another show if whatever you opted to run didn't get you everything you envisioned. But at the same time, IMO its bad to put all your expectations on a cycle when maybe you simply haven't accumulated sufficient mass to what you (or trainer) want for stage time. That's what off-season is for and why this is a lifestyle, and not a season type of sport. IMO going too fast can simply cost you in the long run, but going slower and learning as you go is part of the journey. The drugs should be the minor part of your prep and the diet /training / recovery is the meat & potatos of it.

RE: coach - you might find this giving you more thoughts on options for coaches as well.

http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthrea...urus-for-women

[Hardatit]

Sassy69,
I wish I could rep you!