Dead Pool- I want more info! Step up IFBB!

[Hoss06]

I know it's been said a few times already, but you are responsible for your own self. If you want to consume large amounts of gear- you know there are risks...hell, there are risks for every 'reward'

Reference drug testing - The IFBB would have to know what to test for (specifically) and cough up around $1k per test, no? (And I'm not referring to the Mickey Mouse tests)

[Granite-Dawg]

This goes for everyone, if we're going to have this conversation it will be without name-calling/personal attacks.



It's not, but how can you expect the federation to police who snorts coke?

Do you suggest monthly or random urinalysis? These men and women are not employees. If an athlete only competes once per year how can they be forced to submit to testing during the rest of the year?

The competitors would have to play a huge part for any kind of wellness program to be effective.

What's a good template? A model the IFBB could endorse?

Let's have a discussion but let it be respectful, intelligent and without unnecessary and unhelpful personal attacks or blaming.

This!!!

[Flex500]

This goes for everyone, if we're going to have this conversation it will be without name-calling/personal attacks.



It's not, but how can you expect the federation to police who snorts coke?

Do you suggest monthly or random urinalysis? These men and women are not employees. If an athlete only competes once per year how can they be forced to submit to testing during the rest of the year?

The competitors would have to play a huge part for any kind of wellness program to be effective.

What's a good template? A model the IFBB could endorse?

Let's have a discussion but let it be respectful, intelligent and without unnecessary and unhelpful personal attacks or blaming.

truthfully just a step in the right direction would be acknowledging as a federation they need to look at the health aspect and work on promoting an atmosphere of better health.

I'm not suggesting limiting or eliminating drug use. I'm simply talking about as a first step the below:

1. recreational drug tests/random testing...and a policy stating these drugs are strictly prohibited and if you are caught using or selling there will be harsh punishment. Have random drug tests for this. I understand many will use and not be caught like every other sport.

2. absolute outlaw of diuretics...you take em 1 year ban, then banned for life. Again...many will get away with it but if you make the penalties so harsh they will follow the rules. If you test guys the days leading up to the Olympia for diuretics with the threat of a one year ban then lifetime ban...they won't use them.

3. Must pass have AND pass physical exam each year...you don't pass a physical you don't compete.

4. Overall general "attitude" of the ifbb towards better health practices. An organization pushing towards an awareness of health...a culture of promoting a safe sport

5. full on investigations and reporting of the deaths at least as much as possible. Meaning let's stop with the "shun those who ask questions" attitude. Let's have an honest discussion.



So again, my pm's keeping coming back to "dude it's the athletes responsibility". Of course it is...never said it wasn't.

DMX used a GREAT example. Wrestling. Look what VM has done. He changed the culture. Do some still use rec drugs? yes. Abuse pain killers? yes. Use steroids? yes. But the amount is way down and the health of these guys is seemingly much better. It took him throwing some amateurs with promise out on their asses and banning some people but he did it.

The goal isn't to micromanage people in every way. The goal is to do due diligence as a federation/organization to promote the idea of these guys being as healthy as possible.

[Flex500]

I know it's been said a few times already, but you are responsible for your own self. If you want to consume large amounts of gear- you know there are risks...hell, there are risks for every 'reward'

Reference drug testing - The IFBB would have to know what to test for (specifically) and cough up around $1k per test, no? (And I'm not referring to the Mickey Mouse tests)

I agree in every way with your first paragraph. Ultimately it is up to the individual. But that does not absolve the organization of any responsibility. This is true in business, personal life, sport, etc.

Same with the NFL. It is the players choice to play knowing the risks. However...the NFL still has some responsibility. IE properly reporting the risk and within reason trying to mitigate and control the risk.


as for your second paragraph they can do rec drug tests for about $25. I'm not suggesting they test for steroids. Rec drug tests are dirt cheap if they contract with one organization to do them they may get them for less than $15 bucks.

[GDavis]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Flex500 again.

[JAM]

Hell the Mr Americas of the 50s couldn't win local contests these days
What passes for Mr Anything these days are chemically enhanced mutants
NFL running backs and linebackers have better builds than Mr Americas of the 50s
Better living through chemistry

It's not all just chemistry. What we know regarding training, technology and nutrition is light years ahead of what was available in the 50's. To be blunt, people back then were dumber and people before them were even dumber especially when it came to that stuff. They had a rough understanding of how to get big or be in shape but it was pretty rudimentary with no real generational "trial" runs. Today we have better equipment, knowledge and access to everything makes which attributes more than just chemical enhancements.

[Granite-Dawg]

This is a great debate. What about the pro that doesn't win any prize money ever? Is he or she considered an employee? My opinion it will always come back to money, if it benefits the IFBB financially to do this. The biggest difference between being able to compare the IFBB to the NFL NBA NHL is labor unions and their collective bargaining agreements

[Curt James]

I agree in every way with your first paragraph. Ultimately it is up to the individual. But that does not absolve the organization of any responsibility. This is true in business, personal life, sport, etc.

Same with the NFL. It is the players choice to play knowing the risks. However...the NFL still has some responsibility. IE properly reporting the risk and within reason trying to mitigate and control the risk.


as for your second paragraph they can do rec drug tests for about $25. I'm not suggesting they test for steroids. Rec drug tests are dirt cheap if they contract with one organization to do them they may get them for less than $15 bucks.

I don't see how this wouldn't become a massive imbroglio. What athlete wouldn't see random drug testing as an invasion of privacy? What is their incentive to agree to such testing?

[Flex500]

^^I agree with this...and it's a GREAT point JAM made earlier.

In all reality the IFBB/NPC can do anything they want. That is why so many 90's guys and older...and I mean from bill pearl to nasser thought they were "bully organizations". No consequences, they can make or break you with zero consequences.

people will do what they want...I don't want cameras in peoples bathrooms. But I do think the one and only legit pro/amateur organization in existence for bbing that really runs the show does have a moral and ethical responsibility to promote health awareness to some degree.


it's a pro and extreme sport...there will be risks...we all know that. But they play a role in minimizing those risks and making people better aware of them and how they themselves can mitigate them.

[Flex500]

I don't see how this wouldn't become a massive imbroglio. What athlete wouldn't see random drug testing as an invasion of privacy? What is their incentive to agreeing to such testing?

there incentive is wanting to compete. In almost all sport to compete you have to take a drug test of some form. Why does this have to be different?

the ifbb could issue a statement about recognizing that narcotic and rec drug abuse is running rampant and for the health, safety, and longevity and vitality of pro bodybuilding/fitness/figure they need to do their due diligence to rid the sport of these items so they will institute drug tests for just those things (as in not for steroids that would be way to expensive anyway and not feasible).

also...not so much a health thing but i also think there should be some sort of code of ethics. you get busted for felony drug trafficking in the NFL/MLB/NHL etc. you get suspended.



what I"m talking about Kurt is simply raising the awareness of health...making in an issue AND raising the caliber of individual that is allowed to compete. If your slangin coke and hgh over the weekend in between your prostitution appointments you should be suspended.

The sport will always be dangerous...like any sport. But why can't we have standards higher than "f*ck it we'll take what we can get"?

[Mac]

To be blunt, people back then were dumber and people before them were even dumber especially when it came to that stuff.

So I was dumber back in the 50s than I am now? And my Dad was even dumber?

That's a stupid word to use to describe the 'lesser educated' individual of the 1950s.

[Curt James]

there incentive is wanting to compete. In almost all sport to compete you have to take a drug test of some form. Why does this have to be different?

the ifbb could issue a statement about (snip)

A statement wouldn't cost a thing, however enforcement is another item entirely. Uniformity would be another question or discussion as well.

You state their incentive is to compete, so the testing would be random and would therefore only have an impact on what percentage of the athletes? How effective would it be to test 20 or 200 or 2000 athletes across the amateur and professional levels? How many athletes would find themselves prevented from competing?

And a cursory Google offered this:

According to Pascal Kintz, a former president of the International Association of Forensic Toxicologists, the three big problems with urine testing are false positives and the degradation and manipulation of samples.

One alternative? Not much help in a bodybuilder's case.

''These problems can be greatly mitigated or eliminated through hair analysis,'' Kintz says.
For instance, if there is a dispute, it's impossible to repeat the urine sample, but possible to get a near-identical hair specimen.

''If a person had used a drug last month, say just one dose, the urine would definitely not be positive,'' Drummer says. ''But if someone had used drugs three months before and they've got some hair, you'll be able to pick the drug. The only way around it would be to shave your head.''

More @ http://www.smh.com.au/sport/how-to-b...0515-v5fl.html

[Curt James]

False positives and lawsuits.

Further Googling...

"It has now been confirmed that Jay Cutler, 2001 Mr. Olympia runner-up, and Markus Ruhl, 14th at the O, have been informed by the IFBB that their urine samples tested positive for banned diuretics."

Does anyone not know how that went?

[Hoss06]

I agree in every way with your first paragraph. Ultimately it is up to the individual. But that does not absolve the organization of any responsibility. This is true in business, personal life, sport, etc.

Same with the NFL. It is the players choice to play knowing the risks. However...the NFL still has some responsibility. IE properly reporting the risk and within reason trying to mitigate and control the risk.


as for your second paragraph they can do rec drug tests for about $25. I'm not suggesting they test for steroids. Rec drug tests are dirt cheap if they contract with one organization to do them they may get them for less than $15 bucks.

Athletes are paid good $...with that much money over your head you better listen...Competitors pay to compete...

Yes...rec drug tests are cheap, but not for fear testing.

[Bekim Rizvani]

Maybe they should they should have an appointed Dr and everyone has to have mandatory blood work. If there blood work is not healthy buy the Dr's standards then they would not be able to compete.