Second cycle, Andriol with Arimidex?

[IoanaMaria]

hello everybody,i am new here! i have been bb-ing since i was 17(now i am 24),in this time i have gained strenght and muscles,not too much quality because i am an endomorph and i tend to gain alot of fat but i tried to keep it at a minimum.
this year i did my first cycle of AAS,i did nandrolone phenylpropionate(nandrorapid - alpha pharma) 50 mg every 5 days,it worked really well,minimal sides, just a bit hair growth but not visible.i did the cycle for 1 month.
now my husband was suggesting continueing on nandrolone decanoate or andriol(2-3 tabs/day) with 1/4 tab of arimidex...what are youre suggestions?will the decnoate ester be more agressive than the NPP?And is the test undecanoate with arimidex a good option or not?

[tammyp]

why take such harsh stuff right out of the gate? anadrol for one is a harsh drug for men, and should not be used by women. imo you should have started w anavar, not something like npp. but what done is done. women don't need an anti e like men do during a cycle. I suggest you get on here and read up, as well as your husband for education of women and gear.

1 month is not even worth your time for a cycle. 12-14 weeks is a good time frame. and if you saw hair growth in 4 weeks, I wouldn't dare run something like npp longer.

are you competing first of all?

my suggestion: 20 mg var for 12-14 weeks. you wont deal w the sides that will surely regret.

[IoanaMaria]

why take such harsh stuff right out of the gate? anadrol for one is a harsh drug for men, and should not be used by women. imo you should have started w anavar, not something like npp. but what done is done. women don't need an anti e like men do during a cycle. I suggest you get on here and read up, as well as your husband for education of women and gear.

1 month is not even worth your time for a cycle. 12-14 weeks is a good time frame. and if you saw hair growth in 4 weeks, I wouldn't dare run something like npp longer.

are you competing first of all?

my suggestion: 20 mg var for 12-14 weeks. you wont deal w the sides that will surely regret.

i ment andriol(test undecanoate) not anadrol
i want to compete in the future,i know abaut the anavar but i don't have money for that because i spend alot an food,i have a good quality diet.by hair i mean just a few hairs 4-5 on the chin small and blonde,but i didn't like the wather retention that it gave me...

[tammyp]

I have no knowledge of that maybe sassy can chime in here or bryan...

a 12 week cycle of var will run you about 120$. that's a small price to pay IMO. I wouldn't choose compounds that may change your body based on blue light special. any deca product will give you a shit load of water. IMO your jumping into the harsh stuff too fast. what category do you want to compete in WP? FBB is on its way out, so I would take that into account if you are considering that. Read a lot of the threads here in fem chem. theres a lot of good knowledge here. you don't have to use a lot to make good gains if training and diet are check.

[IoanaMaria]

I have no knowledge of that maybe sassy can chime in here or bryan...

a 12 week cycle of var will run you about 120$. that's a small price to pay IMO. I wouldn't choose compounds that may change your body based on blue light special. any deca product will give you a shit load of water. IMO your jumping into the harsh stuff too fast. what category do you want to compete in WP? FBB is on its way out, so I would take that into account if you are considering that. Read a lot of the threads here in fem chem. theres a lot of good knowledge here. you don't have to use a lot to make good gains if training and diet are check.

i am from romania,first i want to compete here in my country than see what happens,and another big problem here is to find quality AAS,it was hard to find the NPP,it is mostlikely that the var i can find can be fake...the Andriol i am talking abaut is from the pharmacy and is legit it is from Organon and it is a quality product that's why i want to take it.

[IoanaMaria]

and if i take any form of test(prop or undecanoate) is it ok to take it with an AI ,like arimidex?

[tammyp]

if that is all the choice you have then you can use a test prop, 50 mg weekly divided in 2 doses for 12 weeks. arimidex is not needed as it is for men like I stated earlier to include in a cycle for women.

[IoanaMaria]

if that is all the choice you have then you can use a test prop, 50 mg weekly divided in 2 doses for 12 weeks. arimidex is not needed as it is for men like I stated earlier to include in a cycle for women.

my husband is starting a test prop EQ cycle,can i do the sam too?and what doses will be ok for the first EQ cycle?
i was thiking of 50 mg of WQ split the same like the test prop and done at the same time is that ok?

[tammyp]

eq is a better choice over TP. use eq alone. 50 mg weekly. divided over 2 inj.

[sassy69]

From what I could find about Andriol, the couple big downsides are the very short half-life, and the bioavailability doesn't sound very efficient. It is used primarily to treat guys w/ very low test production or pct. it also needs to be taken about every 4 hours and with food or it has crap delivery. The only references I found for women was in treatment of cancer or after hysterectomies at a dose of one 40mg gel cap every other day. IMO that is not oing to produce much of a result for bodybuilding purposes.

Looking your other questions and the NPP cycle, my first question is what are you trying to accomplish. If you're looking for significant muscle growth, nandrolone is one way to do it, however for a first-timer I think it's going w/ the heavy stuff too soon. Please read the stickie on the forum called "Women & Drugs". It will answer many of your basic questions. The problem w/ getting cycle advice from men is they think of cycles with consideration to a testosterone-dominant environment where they need to run short cycles because the presence of an outside source of test makes their own test production shut down, and subsequently needing post cycle therapy to get it going again. They also can stack on more stuff like anti-estrogens, or specifically aromatase inhibitors like arimidex or aromasin to keep the estrogenic effects of the aromitization of these compounds under control - particularly Gino but additionally water retention and estrogenic fat depositing .

Women can run cycles of low dose for much longer than men - like 10-12-16 weeks if you want because test shutdown is not an issue and generally no pct is needed. Also given the longer half-life of most of the injectable you're thinking about for women, they take at least several weeks to establish a full concentration in your body and actually start showing results. But you also have to balance this with the fact that the longer you are on a cycle, and if your compound is more androgenic, and the more frequently you cycle, the stronger the sides will be. So for example a 4 week NPP cycle might be great for a guy, it can be ort of a waste or a woman. It is very hard to draw comparisons between compounds used by men or women because of the overall environment - men typically stak a lot if stuff, so you can't really compare a single ok pound cycle between men and women. Men also can tolerate things like greater doses and more compounds at once - so if you maybe have an iffy source or your product is overdosed or faked w/ something else , it's not great but the male body could handle the risk better. Women can't because even a slightly overdosed product might be doubling a woman's dose or a 10 mg anavar faked w/ a 10 mg dbol will have completely different results an significantly more androgenic sides.

Leading to your question about using an AI w/ NPP , I'd advise against it because as a woman, particularly a young one, AIs can produce dramatic estrogen shutdown w/ early menopause-type effects. Where guys want to limit the exogenous source of estrogen conversion, for women, you are now screwing around w/ the primary hormone. Just looking at what you are trying to accomplish, which I assume is to build muscle, you need estro to build. The only time I'd even bother bringing up use of an AI for women is dialing IMO the last 4-6 weeks of a contest prep. Because you don't expect o build muscle at that point - your diet is only geared towards fat loss and any AAS you might be using is only there to minimize muscle loss from extreme dieting and to help w/ recovery. Also you have a specific target day in mind where you run your compounds and then plan to come off everything and rebound. I e you don't care what you look like the day after the show because moving off the diet and stopping the AI will generally start a post show rebound where just deal w / the estrogen rebound and diet rebound until your body is able to get bak to homeostasis from the extremes of the prep. And just practically speaking AIs don't just reduce water retention, they dry everything the fuck out. Specifically your joints. If you're trying o lift heavier to grow on a cycle, it leaves your joints and tendons as the weak link, and if they are further dried out w/ an AI , you're just begging for tendinitis or joint injuries. Which will obviously impact our lifting, which then negates the value of the cycle.

My ultimate point being, if you are going to choose to cycle, you never get to pick and choose the results and sides you are willing to accept. You can control some water retention w/ dosing and o a degree, diet, but generally if you throw in other stuff to selectively control or suppress certain sides, particularly women, it may cost you in other way that negate the whole point of your cycle. Drugs are already very stressful on the body, including " hidden" sides like stress to your liver, your lipids and your blood pressure, so if you are going to put that stress on your system, make sure your are getting everything you can out of it. Ain't nuttin' for free!

As I mentioned above, I'm not clear on your goals and expectations of a cycle, but you are also limited by what you can get access to. Best advice is to read the stickie I mentioned so aren't asking questions about how to run it after you get it. Also be careful about running something just because thats what you could get. What you can get is not always what you should use and it might actually be worse for you than being patient to get the right cycle.

[sassy69]

Continuing a couple thoughts, yes you can control sides a bit w/ dosing and AIs but it becomes another balancing act w/ the sides from the AIs. We didn't really talk about your diet if you say you are an endomorph. If you aren't already eating a diet optimized for your goals, I would start there as any AAS is only going to be as good as the diet it has to work with. I'd probably recommend a clean bulk or carb cycle approach to your hypertrophy phase. That will help minimize excess fat gain and a clean diet will help control bloat.

Also do you happen to have any sense of your natural estro or test level? If you are high estro, I'd expect maybe a greater issue controlling estro type sides, coupled w/ an aromatizing compound. I was also thinking that at your age, many girls just seem o be more estrogenic - like they are sill getting babyfat under control - so that might be another contributor to your challenges w/ body fat. I'm suggesting these thins so you don't feel like you need to go to extremes to "fight fat" because of "the way your body is". Hormonally the female body goes thru so many changes and fluctuations, it can be useful to have a better understanding of what your natural body chemistry and hormone profile is, so when the discussion of steroids comes up, all the quickly fixes guys can use arent necessarily the right approach. Much better and more maintainable results come from working organically w/ the female body thru diet and training, maybe cardio, maybe use of an appropriate birth control first, then a slow and controlled venture into AAs if it is appropriate.

You might consider alternatively a non aromatizing or less aromatizing compound like eq or test prop, or a milder oral like oral turinabol. I don't know the availability of those for you. But you mentioned eq + prop because your husband is using it. The stickie I mentioned is where you need to go read about these and the dosing, sides, etc. I'd still not recommend stacking eq and prop - one or the other. Both following a nandrolone cycle will have cumulative sides, meaning greater overall androgenic sides. I didn't get a feel for your level of comfort from these heavier compounds, but be prepared w/ any of these for hair loss, voice change, acne, oily hair/skin, interrupted menstrual cycle, etc.

[The Rockette]

Sassy said it all.
I just wanted to pop in and tell Sassy I love the avi!!! I've read your posts for years now but somehow never saw a pic. Are you competing any time soon?
And regarding what Tammy said above about FBB being on the way out, why is that?

[tammyp]

why its on the way out? have you seen the numbers? barely any at local and numbers way day at national level. they removed it from the Arnold this year. the O soon to follow?

[The Rockette]

Honestly I don't follow FBB that closely. I did notice at the last local show I went to that there were only 2 females in the BB category. I thought it was so low cuz it was a small local show.
Are most of them switching to Physique?

[sassy69]

Sassy said it all.
I just wanted to pop in and tell Sassy I love the avi!!! I've read your posts for years now but somehow never saw a pic. Are you competing any time soon?
And regarding what Tammy said above about FBB being on the way out, why is that?

That photo is from Vegas 2009. I'm taking some time to heal a shoulder injury right now so it might be next year.