Female Steroid Usage. Clen T3 Primobolan Cycles. DNP

[F.I.S.T.]

Female Steroid Usage. Clen T3 Primobolan Cycles. DNP
Author Unknown

[Curt James]

I pm'd the contents of your post to you.

Author unknown should be unacceptable wrt chem use.

[Curt James]

Googled a portion of the article and found this:

Female Steroid Usage 101

By: Micro

Lots of people have very strong convictions against women using steroids. The most common misconceptions involve the strain of though that steroids will turn a woman into a muscle-bound man with a vagina. Although this may be true in some cases, the fact remains that steroids could be very beneficial to women.

Sure, if you inject a woman with testosterone, she will eventually develop very male characteristics. In fact, this is likely to occur with the use of most steroids. Some side effects may include deepening of the voice, development of facial and body hair, and clitoral enlargement. Some sports, like female bodybuilding, encourage the participants to develop unnatural amounts of muscle. So in an attempt to excel at their chosen sport, some women do in fact make that ultimate sacrifice. That is where the common misconceptions are born.

There is also a moral issue to deal with. Is it fair to use foreign substances to achieve a thin and beautiful body? I believe that it is fair. After all, are not E/C/A, protein supplements, and the such foreign substances? One may argue that steroids would cause a higher amount of damage to the body. While this is true if the wrong steroids are used, if a female steroid user has the proper guidance, there is no risk at all. There are also many other points that bother me about our society's disdain for female steroid usage. Many claim that it is such a shallow motive to want to look good. I beg to differ. Would you prefer the woman to continue life feeling bad and ashamed of her body? Perhaps having to settle with a mate that she deems unworthy? I think not.

Explain to me why it is socially acceptable to use the birth control pill, which is a steroid, to be able to have frivolous sex? Why is it ok for a woman who feels like she is a man to have a sex change procedure? I say procedure because, unlike the male-to-female sex change operations, there is no genital mutilation involved in turning a woman into a "man." When a woman seeks to change sexes, they prescribe to her large amounts of testosterone. Yes, you heard me right, steroids. So why is it ok to use steroids to have frivolous sex and change your appearance to be more masculine, while it is so wrong to use steroids in an attempt to lose fat and be healthy? Our society is one filled with many contradictions. Sometimes I am disgusted with society's hypocrisy.

I am here to shed light into an often-shunned topic. I am here to guide you in the proper usage of steroids. I am here to show you how to use steroids without losing any femininity. I am also here to tell you that if used correctly, steroids will NOT hurt you. If used correctly, steroids will NOT make you more masculine. If use correctly, steroids will NOT pose any health risks to you.

We must first determine your ultimate goals. If your goal is to gain as much muscle as possible, with no regard to preserving your feminine qualities, please go elsewhere. This article is not for you. If your goal is to lose fat and perhaps tighten and harder your body up while remaining as feminine as can be, please keep reading.

I will first address the issue of losing fat. There is no point in hardening your muscles and developing a tight body, if a soft layer of fat is going to hide it. It is often to your advantage to lose the fat before gaining the muscle.

Three of the most potent and most popular fat-burning medications used by athletes today are tri-iodothyronine (also known as T3), Clenbuterol, and DNP. I highly suggest avoiding the use of DNP. Not only can it kill you, but it will also damage all of your eggs, thus effectively destroying your ability to have normal babies. Due to the dangers involved with the use of DNP (more so for women), I will avoid discussing it in this article.

The combination of T3 and Clenbuterol has changed many physiques in this day and age. T3 is often used in the medical field to treat obese people. Wolman SI and company did an experiment in which obese patients were treated with 20mcg of T3 three times a day. The research showed a significant increase in weight-loss with no noted adverse side effects. Ventz M. did a similar experiment using 200mcg of T3 a day. T3 is highly effective and, if done correctly, safe. Doses of 150+mcg have been shown to significantly increase the chances of permanent thyroid shutdown. So I recommend using no more than 100mcg a day for no longer than 2 weeks at a time. (1,2)

Clenbuterol is a recently popular drug used by athletes in many sports for its purported anabolic effects and reduction of subcutaneous fat. It is a beta-2 (beta 2) agonist prescribed overseas as a bronchodilator, but not approved for use in this country. Clenbuterol indeed increases the deposition rate of lean mass and retards adipose gain. Clenbuterol is most often found in the form of .02mcg tablets. Male athletes tend to use 5-8 tablets a day. Female athletes tend to use 4-6 tablets a day. Much like T3, Clenbuterol should not be used for over 2 weeks in a row. Spread your doses throughout the day. (3)

With the use of T3 and Clenbuterol, expect to see your body-fat melt away but only if you use the right diet and workouts. I suggest you use the Bodyopus diet and do early-morning endurance exercises. If you are not familiar with the diet, I suggest you buy the book Bodyopus written by Dan Duchaine.

So here is what your fat-loss cycling should look like:

Day 1: 2 tablets of Clenbuterol and 25mcg of T3
Day 2: 3 tablets of Clenbuterol and 50mcg of T3
Days 3-10: 4 tablets of Clenbuterol and 75mcg of T3
Days 11 & 12: 3 tablets of Clenbuterol and 50mcg of T3
Days 13 & 14: 2 tablets of Clenbuterol and 25mcg of T3
Days 15 to 28: no T3 or Clenbuterol

Once you reach day 28, you can start over again at 1. Repeat this cycle as many times as it takes to achieve your desired fat-loss. And remember, you have to follow a good diet and do a lot of cardio.

Once you lose all that fat, it'll be time to put some meat on your body and harden it up. This is where steroids come into play. You'll need to find one with no virilizing (development of masculine properties like a male voice, body and facial hair, etc) properties in order to keep your feminine qualities. Choosing the steroid is the tricky part.

We all know that testosterone is completely out of the question! In his review of four female singers that underwent hormone therapy, Baker noted extreme virilization with the use of testosterone and Nandrolone (also known as Deca). Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca) has very strong virilizing properties. Geusens conducted an experiment in which females were give 50mg of Deca every 3-4 weeks. Even at such an incredibly low dose, 50% of the patients experienced virilizing effects. In 1980, Heinonen and company did an experiment involving 98 women. Every single woman who was supplemented with Nandrolone Decanoate (Deca) suffered virilizing side effects. I highly recommend avoiding testosterone and Deca! (4,5,6,7)

So what steroid can you safely use? Primobolan depot (methenolone enanthate) is known to be an extremely safe steroid to use. Notter did an experiment in which 43 women were supplemented with 200mg of Primobolan a week. Hartmann and company conducted an experiment in which 66 women were supplemented with Primobolan. In both studies, the steroid was well tolerated. For now I suggest you stick to 100mg a week. (8,9)

Start with 50mg of Primobolan depot per week for two weeks (note- this is Primobolan depot that I am talking about, not Primobolan acetate) if you experience no virilizing properties, I suggest you increase dosage to 100mg per week for 8 weeks. Then taper it down to 50mg per week for another 2 weeks. I suggest you also add some Clenbuterol in the stack. With this stack, it is common for women to experience a tighter body. Most women experience muscle gains in the area of 5-10 pounds during the 12-week cycle. Increased sexual cravings and faster orgasms are common side effects noted by women. A few women experience some acne and oily skin while on Primobolan Depot. How to get rid of the increased acne has already been covered in my last article, "The Complete Guide to Testosterone Usage.

Your cycle should look something like this:

Weeks 1 & 2: 50mg Primobolan depot per week + 3-4 tablets of Clenbuterol per day
Weeks 3 & 4: 100mg Primobolan depot per week
Weeks 5 & 6: 100mg Primobolan depot per week + 3-4 tablets of Clenbuterol per day
Weeks 7 & 8: 10mg Primobolan depot per week
Weeks 9 & 10: 100mg Primobolan depot per week + 3-4 tablets of Clenbuterol per day
Weeks 11 & 12: 50mg Primobolan depot per week

While on this cycle, I suggest eating 110% to 120% of your daily metabolic rate in calories. After the cycle is complete, I suggest waiting 6-8 weeks before starting over again. You may bridge this 6-8 week period with more T3&clenbuterol cycles. On subsequent cycles, you may experiment with higher doses of Primobolan depot but lower doses immediately if any virilizing occurs.

References: 1) Wolman SI, Sheppard H, Fern M, Waterlow JC. "The effect of tri-iodothyronine (T3) on protein turnover and metabolic rate." Int J Obes 1985;9(6):459-63.

2) Ventz M, Meng W, Franke G, Hampel R. "Effect of thyroid hormones on noradrenaline-stimulated lipolysis in obesity." Z Gesamte Inn Med 1984 Jun 15;39(12):282-4.

3) Prather ID, Brown DE, North P, Wilson JR. "Clenbuterol: a substitute for anabolic steroids?" Med Sci Sports Exerc 1995 Aug;27(8):1118-21.

4) Baker J. "A report on alterations to the speaking and singing voices of four women following hormonal therapy with virilizing agents." J Voice 1999 Dec;13(4):496-507.

5) Geusens P. "Nandrolone decanoate: pharmacological properties and therapeutic use in osteoporosis." Clin Rheumatol 1995 Sep;14 Suppl 3:32-9.

6) Heinonen E, Alanko A, Grohn P, Rissanen P. "Nandrolone decanoate added to tamoxifen in the treatment of advanced breast cancer." Breast Cancer Res Treat 1985;5(1):75-80.

7) Gerritsma EJ, Brocaar MP, Hakkesteegt MM, Birkenhager JC. "Virilization of the voice in post-menopausal women due to the anabolic steroid nandrolone decanoate (Decadurabolin). The effects of medication for one year." Clin Otolaryngol 1994 Feb;19(1):79-84.

8) Notter G. "Treatment of disseminated carcinoma of the breast by metenolone enanthate." Acta Radiol Ther Phys Biol 1975 Dec;14(6):545-51.

9) Hartmann F, Pompecki R, Desaga U, Frahm H. "Anabolic therapy in metastatic breast cancer." Med Klin 1981 Nov 20;76(24):689-91.

From http://www.elitefitness.com/members/..._steroids.html

[F.I.S.T.]

Thank you sir.Glad to hear that micro qualifies as worthy.LOL

[Curt James]

Thank you sir.Glad to hear that micro qualifies as worthy.LOL

You had not included the references. And while I'm no fan of links leading people away from Rx Muscle, when it comes to chem info it seems site of origin would be useful information for anyone trying to gauge whether the content is worthwhile.

That article appears on more than one site.

[CDJack]

Too bad real primo is very had to find and almost always faked unless you have good access to schering amps. Crap article. Methenolone is certainly NOT safe for women WRT virilization.

[sassy69]

Given discussion of Schering primo, my guess is this post has been floating around the interwebs for at least several years. You just don't find that anymore. Also even the discussion of deca for women is old school. Yes, I totally agree with the DON'T USE for women - but the fact that it is even included implies that people think it is an option - that is also very old school. The nature of women's BB has changed significantly and there is just no reason to even come across any women, other than old school FBBs who might have experience w/ stuff like Deca or any long-acting test.

Another telltale sign of "older" post is referring to clen in units of "tabs". Tabs are much less frequently seen these days, with liquid clen being much more widely available via the UGLs. Better to think in terms of actual product-agnostic units - i.e. a "tab" = 20 mcg. Use that as the equivalent of what they are calling things like "3-4 tabs" = 60-80 mcg. And while I'm at it - since so few products are consistently and accurately dosed to the advertised amount, especially for clen, you're better off starting at what you think is 20mcg and increase or decrease by that unit until you find the point where you get the jitters. The generically "recommended doses", if someone is trying to stick to a cycle someone put on a piece of paper, they may find they are feeling absolutely nothing, or are whacked out of their minds w/ overdosed stuff or stuff that just doesn't jibe well w/ their own body chemistry & stimulant sensitivity. Again giving people another reason to have done sufficient research and be in a position to do these sorts of "experiments on yourself". Stuff that someone put on the internet 10 years ago and you follow blindly is just not a great way to self-medicate w/ controlled substances.

NPP is the less offensive, shorter-acting option than deca - but it is still an injectable and will stay in your system for quite a while. Relative to the decaonate flavor, it is significantly less aromatizing, and at small doses (e.g. 15-25 mg E3D) is doable - but as always, subject to the expectation of sides. The recommendation of "Women should never use test" I think many would argue against as it matters what ester of test you are talking about. I think in practical usage, Test Prop is a viable option for women, and possibly even better than NPP because it is a significantly shorter ester and will clear quickly if you don't like it. Test Cypionate & Enanthate are the absolutely NO-NOs for women as they are significantly longer esters and significantly more aggressive sides.

[tammyp]

great clarification sassy. I can bet this copy and paste has been sitting in the archives since the 90s.

[F.I.S.T.]

Given discussion of Schering primo, my guess is this post has been floating around the interwebs for at least several years. You just don't find that anymore. Also even the discussion of deca for women is old school. Yes, I totally agree with the DON'T USE for women - but the fact that it is even included implies that people think it is an option - that is also very old school. The nature of women's BB has changed significantly and there is just no reason to even come across any women, other than old school FBBs who might have experience w/ stuff like Deca or any long-acting test.

Another telltale sign of "older" post is referring to clen in units of "tabs". Tabs are much less frequently seen these days, with liquid clen being much more widely available via the UGLs. Better to think in terms of actual product-agnostic units - i.e. a "tab" = 20 mcg. Use that as the equivalent of what they are calling things like "3-4 tabs" = 60-80 mcg. And while I'm at it - since so few products are consistently and accurately dosed to the advertised amount, especially for clen, you're better off starting at what you think is 20mcg and increase or decrease by that unit until you find the point where you get the jitters. The generically "recommended doses", if someone is trying to stick to a cycle someone put on a piece of paper, they may find they are feeling absolutely nothing, or are whacked out of their minds w/ overdosed stuff or stuff that just doesn't jibe well w/ their own body chemistry & stimulant sensitivity. Again giving people another reason to have done sufficient research and be in a position to do these sorts of "experiments on yourself". Stuff that someone put on the internet 10 years ago and you follow blindly is just not a great way to self-medicate w/ controlled substances.

NPP is the less offensive, shorter-acting option than deca - but it is still an injectable and will stay in your system for quite a while. Relative to the decaonate flavor, it is significantly less aromatizing, and at small doses (e.g. 15-25 mg E3D) is doable - but as always, subject to the expectation of sides. The recommendation of "Women should never use test" I think many would argue against as it matters what ester of test you are talking about. I think in practical usage, Test Prop is a viable option for women, and possibly even better than NPP because it is a significantly shorter ester and will clear quickly if you don't like it. Test Cypionate & Enanthate are the absolutely NO-NOs for women as they are significantly longer esters and significantly more aggressive sides.

Thanks for the reply.

The schering primo may not be out there but trust me,primo is still available.You just have to know who you're getting it from to make sure its not fake,as it is many times today.

As for the clen being not really being available in tabs anymore,I guess you may want to look at other sources.These are very widely available in tabs and in fact I had to recently help a member get squared away on an order he was owed to 3k tabs.

As for the personal choice of what AAS to use for a woman,thats exactly it..A personal choice.Many woman do use different tests with great success and no real sides.At least ones that they can deal with.But again,thats for each individual to decide for themselves and see how they react.

Always great to hear your feedback though.

[F.I.S.T.]

I just looked.You actually have sponsors here on board that carry Clen tabs and Primo.LOL

[sassy69]

I just looked.You actually have sponsors here on board that carry Clen tabs and Primo.LOL

But I would counter- this post has been floating around for years and was written in the environment where pharma grade, branded products were the only ones around (and not getting into the counterfeiting of them) and powders from China to brew whatever you wanted, just weren't available. Back then you got whatever someone got over the border from Mexico, or bought off a poor HIV guy selling his medication. Thus the reference to time-relevant "standard terminology" - i.e. Schering primo amps & "clen tabs" being a constant unit. I'm not going to go itemize the products of sponsors we currently have but my bet is they are not guaranteed pharma grade products in pharma industry "standard" dosing concentrations. Because there are so many labs out there, they are not federally regulated and they are not standard units across the board. "Tabs" are very recent for clen and going back say 1-2 years it was mostly liquid because that is easier to produce.

In other words, my point is that context matters. What happens if these specific sponsors that happen to exist now on RX decide to discontinue a product or are no longer sponsors? Could be there are no such thing as "tabs" or primo. This sort of detail is stuff the potential users should be aware of. This is my same complaint about trainers or whoever who recommends doses in units of CC. Again since there is no such thing as a guaranteed, federally regulated and enforced dosing, 1cc of something is irrelevant. What if you get someone 's homebrew EQ at 300mg/ml when most everything else is at 100mg /ml. THere 1cc = 100mg = 1 ml. But at 300mg/ml, you just tripled your dose if your coach just told u "use 1cc / week". For a woman, that's a disaster in the making & she may not even be aware of it.

Context matters.

[F.I.S.T.]

But I would counter- this post has been floating around for years and was written in the environment where pharma grade, branded products were the only ones around (and not getting into the counterfeiting of them) and powders from China to brew whatever you wanted, just weren't available. Back then you got whatever someone got over the border from Mexico, or bought off a poor HIV guy selling his medication. Thus the reference to time-relevant "standard terminology" - i.e. Schering primo amps & "clen tabs" being a constant unit. I'm not going to go itemize the products of sponsors we currently have but my bet is they are not guaranteed pharma grade products in pharma industry "standard" dosing concentrations. Because there are so many labs out there, they are not federally regulated and they are not standard units across the board. "Tabs" are very recent for clen and going back say 1-2 years it was mostly liquid because that is easier to produce.

In other words, my point is that context matters. What happens if these specific sponsors that happen to exist now on RX decide to discontinue a product or are no longer sponsors? Could be there are no such thing as "tabs" or primo. This sort of detail is stuff the potential users should be aware of. This is my same complaint about trainers or whoever who recommends doses in units of CC. Again since there is no such thing as a guaranteed, federally regulated and enforced dosing, 1cc of something is irrelevant. What if you get someone 's homebrew EQ at 300mg/ml when most everything else is at 100mg /ml. THere 1cc = 100mg = 1 ml. But at 300mg/ml, you just tripled your dose if your coach just told u "use 1cc / week". For a woman, that's a disaster in the making & she may not even be aware of it.

Context matters.

What happens when the sponsors here at RX are no longer here?? Then you can go to the plethora of other sources that carry tabs and primo.I was just giving an example of how easily it is to find tabs and primo here alone.But believe it or not,on the countless bbing boards on the net (and I know you are on many of them as ive seen you on them) there are also plenty of sponsors that carry both.

So I agree with you 100% context matters.Just not that you cant get these products anymore and in fact can,rather easily on a multitude of boards.

[sassy69]

What happens when the sponsors here at RX are no longer here?? Then you can go to the plethora of other sources that carry tabs and primo.I was just giving an example of how easily it is to find tabs and primo here alone.But believe it or not,on the countless bbing boards on the net (and I know you are on many of them as ive seen you on them) there are also plenty of sponsors that carry both.

So I agree with you 100% context matters.Just not that you cant get these products anymore and in fact can,rather easily on a multitude of boards.

The plethora of other sources brewing their own flavor of each product - again no consistent dosing that you can be guaranteed. "Tabs" could be 25 mcg or 40 mcg, or something in between. The producer may decide that 200mg / ml is easier to bottle, or his clients may prefer 200mg/ml to 100mg/ml, or maybe its more price effective. Is there pharma grade quality control involved? Probably not - so how consistent is dosing to what is advertised? I'm not speaking specifically to any sponsor, but I am saying the days of only pharma-quality stuff being available are no more. A lot of "stuff" is available, but that doesn't make it consistently reliable. So again, you need to be aware of what you are doing & reading. You need to understand that variations & caveats around whatever "information" is posted online. And just because it is "online" doesn't mean it is always "currently accurate" because its been sitting out there since the beginning of time.

And to your earlier point - I never said you can't find primo & clen tabs anymore. I did say you can't find Schering primo amps and most of the old clen brands like Oxyflux (which was notoriously underdosed). I also said up until a year or two ago, you really couldn't find reliable primo or clen tabs - you could find a crapload of clen liquid and occasionally caps - but the cost & time to make tabs that don't crumble means you're investing more in your process - which many of the fly by night UGLs just wouldn't do because it was cheaper and simple to do caps or liquid.

[CDJack]

Schering/Bayer primo is absolutely still available, I assure you. It is commonly made in Europe. Bayer produces it now, but it is the exact same thing. And so are clenbuterol tablets. Both widely available.

[CDJack]

Pharm grade clenbuterol is usually 20mcg per tab, but yes, talking about dosing in terms of tabs, mls, etc. is a quick sign that you are dealing with someone who doens't get it