test prop dosage

[IoanaMaria]

i just got my test prop,it is dosed at 50 mg/ml,is it ok to do 50 mg/week split into 2 injections?

[tammyp]

My suggestion. 25 mg e4 days

[sassy69]

^^ What she said.

[IoanaMaria]

thanks for the reply!
i read an older post from this forum abaut test prop and sistersteel recomanded in the off season to use the test prop with a SERM.also she said thet the best choice for an off season cycle is test prop,a SERM,and EQ.
what should i do abaut the SERM?should i take nolvadex?and if yes,how much per day?

[sassy69]

thanks for the reply!
i read an older post from this forum abaut test prop and sistersteel recomanded in the off season to use the test prop with a SERM.also she said thet the best choice for an off season cycle is test prop,a SERM,and EQ.
what should i do abaut the SERM?should i take nolvadex?and if yes,how much per day?

If you're using a low dose of Test Prop + EQ - the water retention should be pretty minimal. To that end, I don't think a SERM is necessary. Esp in the off-season when the water isn't affecting things like a target show date.

If you choose to use Nolva, generally stick w/ 1 pill / day (I forget whatever that is - 20 mg ?) split in half AM/ PM . The general dosing guidance is outlined in the Women & Drugs stickie at the top of this forum.

[Beergut75]

Does EQ help a woman cut? My GF is on cycling prop and it sounds like the dosage is a little high. She is also on VAR at 10mg a day. She has basically no signs that she is on anything and she has been pinning prop at 50mg EOD for a total of 4 times. She has been taking var for 9 days.

She is 30yrs old 135lbs 5'2" tall and has two kids. She really doesn't look bad but her BF% is not where she wants it. She struggles to get to the gym but she has good genetics to stay thin. She has done diet and exercise before and done well with it. However the last time she really got after it the results came really slow so she has tried to add a little something.

It sounds like 5omg of test prop is too much? Should we cut that and add the EQ? If so at what dosage?

[sassy69]

Does EQ help a woman cut? My GF is on cycling prop and it sounds like the dosage is a little high. She is also on VAR at 10mg a day. She has basically no signs that she is on anything and she has been pinning prop at 50mg EOD for a total of 4 times. She has been taking var for 9 days.

She is 30yrs old 135lbs 5'2" tall and has two kids. She really doesn't look bad but her BF% is not where she wants it. She struggles to get to the gym but she has good genetics to stay thin. She has done diet and exercise before and done well with it. However the last time she really got after it the results came really slow so she has tried to add a little something.

It sounds like 5omg of test prop is too much? Should we cut that and add the EQ? If so at what dosage?

Uh, is this for real?

SHe wants to cut so she's juicing up? That's a hellaheavy cycle for someone who wants to drop bodyfat. And for fuck sake, don't throw on MORE injectable.

She has no idea what she's doing, does she?

Recommendation:

1) Drop the prop. YES 50 mg EOD is waaaaaay too much - you realize in 1 week she's taking more than 150 mg of prop? And then throw on another 70 mg of var, for a nice big fat grand total of nearly 250 mg of steroids. That is on par w/ old guy testosterone replacement therapy. Prop is NOT a cutting drug.

2) Do NOT add EQ. Unless you want your GF to become your BF.

None of this sounds like anything that makes any sense for this person's goals. NONE of it.

I'd rather hear about her diet & training an drop the drugs. There's nothing in this post that is going to get her to where she is envisioning to be, no matter how fast she wants it.

Please post diet and training.

[tammyp]

I am w sassy! why would you take bulking drugs to cut? how about diet? diet is the magic bullet here. not drugs.

[sassy69]

I am w sassy! why would you take bulking drugs to cut? how about diet? diet is the magic bullet here. not drugs.

To go into detail, the only goal you mention is to lose bodyfat. THAT is all about diet and training. Drugs are not just fat burners. They promote lean muscle mass building and probably even more importantly, recovery from an aggressive diet or training while preserving mass. But if she's just trying to lean out , that stack is what'd I'd call a hypertrophy stack - if she doesn't want to build mass, then get the hell off the prop. If you just want to cut, that is going to be all about the diet. If the diet insn't directly producing results on its own, throwing in drugs is really just going to produce more of a thick look, which I imagine is not what is in mind.

Also that stack and the mention of EQ smells like the dosing is based on what "works" for guys - but women frequently conveniently skip the part about being in the gym consistently and lifting like a fucking monster all the time, as well as the fact that men tend to burn fat more efficiently because they are not designed to retain bodyfat as part of their design for survival of the species (i.e. women are designed to store fat for the sole purpose of protecting a fetus to promote successful reproduction). What works for guys does not directly translate for women and in fact, willl promote boat load of other issues that she probably isn't looking for.

Again, drop the prop or she will begin seeing a voice change soon , and that's not a scare tactic. Its a fact.

AAS takes time to establish a 'saturation level' - var takes ~10 -14 days. Prop is fairly fast acting but more aggressive sides take time to show up.

[Beergut75]

Yes it is for real and it was based on someone else's recommendation and I was unsure of it which is why I came here and asked. This person seemed to know more than me so I shut up and listened.

Her labs came back prior to cycle just fine but she has been lethargic for months, no energy, no libido, possibly depressed. We thought thyroid? We thought high Estrogen? We have looked into most of the usual suspects. We have no insurance so paying out of pocket is getting expensive.

She wants to be back down to the 118lbs she was before kids. You all ask about diet and exercise... diet is mediocre at best. We travel alot and I mean alot. Working out is nearly impossible with our work, travel, and child schedule. She does the best she can but barely has the time to tan let alone hit the gym. I seriously mean she has maybe an extra 5 mins to get a spray tan twice a month. We stay up late and get up early everyday and I know that isn't good.

We have been trying to make a lifestyle change and MAKE time. She is sold on the drugs working. The ONLY results she has seen so far from this cycle is heightened sex drive. That's it NOTHING else. I know the Prop is at least legit but not sure about the VAR as it is often faked.

I feel like this is the wrong cycle for sure and will drop her off of it before she gets sides. I don't know if she will quit the VAR unless I replace it with something else. She worked out hard 2 years ago and got down to about 122lbs with P90X and gym trips but she plateaued and lost focus. She wants quick results and realistically only needs to lose 15-18lbs and she would be happy. I have some T3 but it scares me to mess with the thyroid.

[sassy69]

Yes it is for real and it was based on someone else's recommendation and I was unsure of it which is why I came here and asked. This person seemed to know more than me so I shut up and listened.

Her labs came back prior to cycle just fine but she has been lethargic for months, no energy, no libido, possibly depressed. We thought thyroid? We thought high Estrogen? We have looked into most of the usual suspects. We have no insurance so paying out of pocket is getting expensive.

She wants to be back down to the 118lbs she was before kids. You all ask about diet and exercise... diet is mediocre at best. We travel alot and I mean alot. Working out is nearly impossible with our work, travel, and child schedule. She does the best she can but barely has the time to tan let alone hit the gym. I seriously mean she has maybe an extra 5 mins to get a spray tan twice a month. We stay up late and get up early everyday and I know that isn't good.

We have been trying to make a lifestyle change and MAKE time. She is sold on the drugs working. The ONLY results she has seen so far from this cycle is heightened sex drive. That's it NOTHING else. I know the Prop is at least legit but not sure about the VAR as it is often faked.

I feel like this is the wrong cycle for sure and will drop her off of it before she gets sides. I don't know if she will quit the VAR unless I replace it with something else. She worked out hard 2 years ago and got down to about 122lbs with P90X and gym trips but she plateaued and lost focus. She wants quick results and realistically only needs to lose 15-18lbs and she would be happy. I have some T3 but it scares me to mess with the thyroid.

OK so I understand the lifestyle - but the reality is that drugs are pretty much irrelevant for your lifestyle and these goals. I really don't see anything but negative outcome, increased BP and whatever issue w/ the androgenic sides. I can tell you that I wouldn't recommend this cycle to any female - experienced or not. I think the prop dosing is based on a guy's cycle and that's just wrong and completely irrelevant for women. I would seriously drop it. NOT worth it and no correlation between prop, minimal quality diet, training and probably high stress levels. Its really just putting even more stress on her system. Complete waste of time and greater potential for negative outcome than positive.

When you're setting a number on the scale as your goal, particularly as you're getting older, it is not really the greatest way to define a goal. I am assuming she is really more interested in a particular look based on bodyfat levels and how she "wears' it, than the number on the scale. IF the number on the scale is the goal, then you're completely wasting your time w/ this cycle becaues it promotes increased muscle mass and muscle mass adds weight. I'm 5'7' and medium build - I compete at 148-150 lb and can wear a size 2-4 at that weight. So if I judged "progress" by my scale I'd probably shoot myself. Its really irrelevant and body composition is much more relevant. And equivalently, making a number on the scale your goal is sort of a self-induced mindfuck as well. Its just really not relevant to what is probably the real goal. You can hit that number by chopping off a leg too. That might be easier, but it will definitely put a dent in your lifestyle. Is that what you envisioned in meeting that goal?

And as I mentioned above - the real value in steroids is supporting an already existing & producing diet & training program. It is a supplement - not a replacement for the actual nutrition and energy exertion your body needs to operate in to actually adapt to in order to support.

WIth all due respect, being sold on the drugs as the appropriate route is really just sort of ignorant. Quicky results are ignorant as well. Its just not maintainable because neither your body nor your lifestyle has had sufficient time to adapt to any change.

I would honestly bet the depression and all that is more related to adrenal fatigue and general burnout if you travel a lot AND have 2 kids. I can't really tell you how to make changes to address this, but I would start w/ fundamentals and do the things your body NEEDS to operate in a positive direction - this includes good quality diet, reasonable quality sleep and even the exercise you get is from playing w/ your kids - THAT will produce better and more maintainable results. Drugs w/o any good foundation, IMO is just disrespecting your body because you are introducing an external influence trying to force a particular result, while nothing else in your life is lining up to support any of these goals you are trying to force. And when people don't get the results they are envisioning, they start throwing in more shit to try to force it more because they are now starting to go into panic mode. And that is just a downward spiral at that point.

Just sayin.

I can tell you that I've been training w/ nothing less than balls to the wall all the time for more than 30 years and still the only time I can make a dramatic change in my physique is when I stick to an optimized diet and additional cardio (I'm speaking to my body - and not implying all fo this is required for anyone else) - but very simply, you either do it or dont' bother. You can't do things that are just plain irrelevant to your goals and expect your goals. If your diet, training & recovery are not already producing , no drug is going to miraculously do the work for you. It just isn't. It is actually very simple that way. Your body responds to the environment you give it to operate in. If you feel burnt out or whatever -that is a result of your lifestyle and if you don't change the basic things in the lifestyle, nothing is going to fix it. It may even be a couple simple things, but still if you don't make some changes and stick to them to allow your body to adapt and respond, you are going to shoot yourself in the foot. Your body can only respond as fast as it can. Any expectation beyond that is going to lead to poor decisions and distraction from actually making any progress.

Best advice I can give you, Drop the drugs and focus on the things that will make a difference. Sometimes it takes some creative thinking. I have a friend who travels nearly 5 days out of every week as a field engineer for a wireless security company - and his travel includes the full length of the West Coast and out to Hawaii. (Sure great destination but it is a LOT of time enroute all the time.) He follows a simple ketogenic diet during the week and saves his carb ups for the weekend. He competes at the national level in bodybuilding while working 60 hours / week, traveling all the time and getting time in w/ his daughter, after recently splitting up w/ his wife. He also deals w/ the additional aches & pains of being an over 40 bodybuilder. I personally work 60+ hours / week and have different challenges in my life than you do, but I still know that if I don't commit to making good decisions in my diet,training, stress levels and sleep, I can't complain about not being where I want to be w/ my life and my physique. I'm also dealing w/ the changes that come w/ approaching 50 that are presenting me w/ challenges I never had to deal w/ before and trust me, they are fucking w/ my head after training hard & heavy for as long as i have. So I'd like to have sympathy for the demands in your life, but it is your choice to find the best way to work with that. If you don't, all you can do is accept it. Drugs are not going to make up for that. Period.

A couple other thoughts I had before you start messing w/ T3 include looking at the diet. Frequently issues are related to food and your body's ability to process it. If you are eating a lot of processed stuff or poor quality food, very simply there may be a nutritional starvation going on. Food allergies are a potential issue, possibly lack of sufficient hydration, etc. Very hard to say if I don't have any sense of the current diet.

If what you're trying to do is drop bodyfat - it is very possible the accumulation of bodyfat is a direct result of increased cortisol from increased stress and lack of sufficient recovery time. Back to my suggestion to just focus on the basics of nutrition, recovery and activity - even before getting into worrying about the gym, etc. - even basic changes to get sufficient sleep can make dramatic changes in your body's ability to operate efficiently. Generally the body WANTS to operate efficiently - but if it is getting too much or not enough of one of the basics, it will really be limited in how well it can do what it was designed to do because it is too busy trying to compensate for these basic inefficiencies to do give you anything else to do your "life" with.

[Beergut75]

OK so I understand the lifestyle - but the reality is that drugs are pretty much irrelevant for your lifestyle and these goals. I really don't see anything but negative outcome, increased BP and whatever issue w/ the androgenic sides. I can tell you that I wouldn't recommend this cycle to any female - experienced or not. I think the prop dosing is based on a guy's cycle and that's just wrong and completely irrelevant for women. I would seriously drop it. NOT worth it and no correlation between prop, minimal quality diet, training and probably high stress levels. Its really just putting even more stress on her system. Complete waste of time and greater potential for negative outcome than positive.

When you're setting a number on the scale as your goal, particularly as you're getting older, it is not really the greatest way to define a goal. I am assuming she is really more interested in a particular look based on bodyfat levels and how she "wears' it, than the number on the scale. IF the number on the scale is the goal, then you're completely wasting your time w/ this cycle becaues it promotes increased muscle mass and muscle mass adds weight. I'm 5'7' and medium build - I compete at 148-150 lb and can wear a size 2-4 at that weight. So if I judged "progress" by my scale I'd probably shoot myself. Its really irrelevant and body composition is much more relevant. And equivalently, making a number on the scale your goal is sort of a self-induced mindfuck as well. Its just really not relevant to what is probably the real goal. You can hit that number by chopping off a leg too. That might be easier, but it will definitely put a dent in your lifestyle. Is that what you envisioned in meeting that goal?

And as I mentioned above - the real value in steroids is supporting an already existing & producing diet & training program. It is a supplement - not a replacement for the actual nutrition and energy exertion your body needs to operate in to actually adapt to in order to support.

WIth all due respect, being sold on the drugs as the appropriate route is really just sort of ignorant. Quicky results are ignorant as well. Its just not maintainable because neither your body nor your lifestyle has had sufficient time to adapt to any change.

I would honestly bet the depression and all that is more related to adrenal fatigue and general burnout if you travel a lot AND have 2 kids. I can't really tell you how to make changes to address this, but I would start w/ fundamentals and do the things your body NEEDS to operate in a positive direction - this includes good quality diet, reasonable quality sleep and even the exercise you get is from playing w/ your kids - THAT will produce better and more maintainable results. Drugs w/o any good foundation, IMO is just disrespecting your body because you are introducing an external influence trying to force a particular result, while nothing else in your life is lining up to support any of these goals you are trying to force. And when people don't get the results they are envisioning, they start throwing in more shit to try to force it more because they are now starting to go into panic mode. And that is just a downward spiral at that point.

Just sayin.

I can tell you that I've been training w/ nothing less than balls to the wall all the time for more than 30 years and still the only time I can make a dramatic change in my physique is when I stick to an optimized diet and additional cardio (I'm speaking to my body - and not implying all fo this is required for anyone else) - but very simply, you either do it or dont' bother. You can't do things that are just plain irrelevant to your goals and expect your goals. If your diet, training & recovery are not already producing , no drug is going to miraculously do the work for you. It just isn't. It is actually very simple that way. Your body responds to the environment you give it to operate in. If you feel burnt out or whatever -that is a result of your lifestyle and if you don't change the basic things in the lifestyle, nothing is going to fix it. It may even be a couple simple things, but still if you don't make some changes and stick to them to allow your body to adapt and respond, you are going to shoot yourself in the foot. Your body can only respond as fast as it can. Any expectation beyond that is going to lead to poor decisions and distraction from actually making any progress.

Best advice I can give you, Drop the drugs and focus on the things that will make a difference. Sometimes it takes some creative thinking. I have a friend who travels nearly 5 days out of every week as a field engineer for a wireless security company - and his travel includes the full length of the West Coast and out to Hawaii. (Sure great destination but it is a LOT of time enroute all the time.) He follows a simple ketogenic diet during the week and saves his carb ups for the weekend. He competes at the national level in bodybuilding while working 60 hours / week, traveling all the time and getting time in w/ his daughter, after recently splitting up w/ his wife. He also deals w/ the additional aches & pains of being an over 40 bodybuilder. I personally work 60+ hours / week and have different challenges in my life than you do, but I still know that if I don't commit to making good decisions in my diet,training, stress levels and sleep, I can't complain about not being where I want to be w/ my life and my physique. I'm also dealing w/ the changes that come w/ approaching 50 that are presenting me w/ challenges I never had to deal w/ before and trust me, they are fucking w/ my head after training hard & heavy for as long as i have. So I'd like to have sympathy for the demands in your life, but it is your choice to find the best way to work with that. If you don't, all you can do is accept it. Drugs are not going to make up for that. Period.

A couple other thoughts I had before you start messing w/ T3 include looking at the diet. Frequently issues are related to food and your body's ability to process it. If you are eating a lot of processed stuff or poor quality food, very simply there may be a nutritional starvation going on. Food allergies are a potential issue, possibly lack of sufficient hydration, etc. Very hard to say if I don't have any sense of the current diet.

If what you're trying to do is drop bodyfat - it is very possible the accumulation of bodyfat is a direct result of increased cortisol from increased stress and lack of sufficient recovery time. Back to my suggestion to just focus on the basics of nutrition, recovery and activity - even before getting into worrying about the gym, etc. - even basic changes to get sufficient sleep can make dramatic changes in your body's ability to operate efficiently. Generally the body WANTS to operate efficiently - but if it is getting too much or not enough of one of the basics, it will really be limited in how well it can do what it was designed to do because it is too busy trying to compensate for these basic inefficiencies to do give you anything else to do your "life" with.

WOW! First let me say thank you for taking the time to write all of that.

After some of the responses in this thread and a pretty significant blow up between us over a client this morning we have made some decisions. We own our own business and we have a HUGE client that makes up 75% of our income but drives us nuts with unrealistic demands and expectations, scorecards for performance etc. We have found several smaller clients to replace them with and hopefully we can take our life back.

We are going to get to the gym everyday and just change the company hours to make that happen.When we travel we will have to do cardio at the hotel or swim in the pool. We will be dropping the test P and but I'm not sure about the VAR yet.

She told me she doesn't care if she is 175# if she looks good naked (her words). She informed me that her skin feels tighter right now and she doesn't feel as fat as she did before beginning the cycle. She likes the energy and libido she is getting from the drugs and that has kind of surpassed her weight loss goals. We KNOW that she has to stop the prop and probably should stop the VAR but we would like to give it another week or two and see what happens.

Our diet is not horrible we don't drink soda or eat french fries anything like that. A typical day around here is Protein shake with carb fuel, 1/4 cup oatmeal, blackened chicken salad for lunch, and chicken breast on the gril with green beans for dinner. Some problems she really fights are sweet cravings. We don't have junk in the house but sometimes she craves the bad stuff so bad she will go buy ice cream or starbucks. We live like this pretty much always but both of us are over where we want to be on BF%.

Thanks for the advice and rest assured i am taking it and we will most likely drop the VAR but she is loving the way she feels.

[sassy69]

First of all, congrats on making that decision to decouple the dependence of your entire existence on a client that maybe is too expensive in personal cost to make it worth it. That's no small decision to take - but I'm glad that you're finding other options that are more viable.

I would encourage you to be sure you're getting good sleep as well as the gym time. I can tell you from personal experience that under-recovery can be as devastating to your progress as a garbage diet or being a couch potato. Take the day off from the gym if you feel you're regressing in energy levels, strength, etc. Always listen to your body.

Diet-wise, I think if you wanted to post up a complete day's meal plan, we can find some easy ways to tweak it. Just looking at your short list of food choices - sure they are "clean" but what I potentially see is low carb, but not low enough to leverage a ketogenic approach which really just leaves you short on any energy source (read: metabolism stalls) and no fats anywhere. Nutriitionally imbalanced diets can kill progress and w/ insufficient energy source can just leave the body sluggish. That also leads to those craving moments that just throw everything. Here I would encourage a posting of a complete daily or typical daily meal plan w/ portions & times of consumption, e.g.

8am:
1/2 c oats
1 egg + 2 egg whites

11 am:
4 oz chicken
1/2 c brown rice
2 cups veggies

etc..

And then specifically keep a cheat meal scheduled every week so you are throwing some garbage down the piehole (IMO its good to do this so your body continues to be capable of processing less than optimal food.) It also gives you a break from a restricted or less "fun" diet as well as a little more social flexibility to enjoy a cocktail or go out for pizza w/ friends or family, etc. I've found when I have a structured weekly eating schedule w/ a scheduled cheat meal, it is easier to keep the cheats from being random and giving you an outlet for when you start to feel the cravings coming on and all you have in your head is "BAD FOOD DON"T DO". Then the whole food - mood thing starts to kick in and food to fuel turns into food as comfort food, food because you can't fight the craving, food because you feel like you've been restricted for so long, etc. I've personally found random cheats go a long way towards killing my progress. A scheduled cheat really becomes your "refeed". And frankly the longer I eat the clean food, the less I really enjoy a really sloppy cheat because it my metabolism is so tuned that garbage food starts to feel like throwing mud in a finely tuned system. But just having that "time" set aside where it is "ok" to cheat, seems to take a lot of the panic around eating crap food when you feel it coming on.