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  1. #46
    Muscle In The Morning
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianDuque View Post
    You're missing the point. I agree that Doran's article was insensitive and that it was historically baseless. I'm just pointing out to you that being Jewish is not a race. Do you undertand that?
    Maybe HeavyIron will understand better with pictures...

    EthiopianJews.jpg
    Jewish People

    jewishpeople.jpg
    Jewish People

    Both are from the original 12 tribes, tracing their lineage back to the beginning of time. Jewish people can be white or black, yellow, or red. Race is based on color. There are only 4 known races in the world. Judaism is not a race.

    For the 150th time I reject everything about the article Dorian posted and agree it was both insensitive and historically baseless. I was merely making a very minor point. Sadly heavyiron was unable to grasp this. Hopefully the pictures will help him see what I'm saying.

    =====================
    Also, heavyiron... your use of the term "debase" is incorrect. If you're purposely degrading yourself, then you have a self-esteem problem. Is this a cry for help? Do you need a hug?




    Last edited by MITM; 04-16-2014 at 10:27 PM.

  2. #47
    Chemistry Experiment heavyiron's Avatar
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    Ignoring DNA evidence and the expertise of geneticists while at the same time cherry picking your definition of terms to "win" an internet argument is not only juvenile but it denies reality. Denying reality has a technical term. Its called insanity.

    Anyway, I knew this would turn into another rabbit trail to minimize your idol Dorian's insensitivity to a group of people but that's okay. Everyone here has seen through your attempts to obfuscate the issue.


    All posts are for entertainment and may contain fiction. Consult a doctor before using any medications. heavyiron does not advocate readers engage in any illegal activity.


  3. #48
    Muscle In The Morning
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Ignoring DNA evidence and the expertise of geneticists while at the same time cherry picking your definition of terms to "win" an internet argument is not only juvenile but it denies reality. Denying reality has a technical term. Its called insanity.

    Anyway, I knew this would turn into another rabbit trail to minimize your idol Dorian's insensitivity to a group of people but that's okay. Everyone here has seen through your attempts to obfuscate the issue.
    I can't seem to get through to you. I'm sure you can read, but I think you have difficulty processing what I've written. All the best to you.
    Last edited by MITM; 04-16-2014 at 10:43 PM.

  4. #49
    Chemistry Experiment heavyiron's Avatar
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    I fully understand your narrow point of view. You have adopted a particular definition of a term but likely don't realize the term has morphed over the years and is somewhat subjective based on social conceptions. I happen to use the term with a broader definition. As I previously stated, I agree that Gentiles have proselytized to Judaism. I fully understand they may have a different skin color and the grouping may be as much a religious statement as a genetic one but that does not change the fact that there are genetic traits shared by the group as a whole therefore using the term in that context does not violate its definition. You cannot deny the DNA evidence. You may not fully understand it now but once you do I think you will see that the Jews may be classed as a race from a statistical point of view. Throughout history even the Jews called themselves by that term.

    Anyway, read what geneticists think. I think you will learn something.


    All posts are for entertainment and may contain fiction. Consult a doctor before using any medications. heavyiron does not advocate readers engage in any illegal activity.


  5. #50
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apickerill View Post
    CURRRRRTTTTTT ????

    are you sleeping ???


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkex
    I never sleep.

    Unfortunately. :-/

    Now where's my f'ing scorecard? This thread is a battle royal.

  6. #51
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    I def. Agree
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    I never sleep.

    Unfortunately. :-/

    Now where's my f'ing scorecard? This thread is a battle royal.

  7. #52
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    (snip) there are genetic traits shared by the group as a whole therefore using the term in that context does not violate its definition. You cannot deny the DNA evidence. (snip)
    According to an article, “The Chosen Genes,” published in the Washington DC-based journal,The Chronicle of Higher Education, the “story of Jewish origins, once the province of historians and religion scholars, is now being told by DNA.”
    Harry Ostrer, Jewish Professor of Genetics at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine (located in the Bronx, New York), said that he had “developed systematic ways to separate Jews from non-Jews.”
    According to The Chronicle, Ostrer’s work “shows that geographically and culturally distant Jews still have more genes in common than they do with non-Jews around them, and that those genes can be traced back to the Levant, an area including modern-day Israel.”
    ”It shows we share in a biological tapestry, and are connected by these genetic threads,” Ostrer was quoted as saying in the article.


    More @ http://newobserveronline.com/race-or...es-identified/

    Geneticists have long been aware that certain diseases, from breast cancer to Tay-Sachs, disproportionately affect Jews. Ostrer, who is also director of genetic and genomic testing at Montefiore Medical Center, goes further, maintaining that Jews are a homogeneous group with all the scientific trappings of what we used to call a “race.”

    More @ http://forward.com/articles/155742/j...-reveal/?p=all

    Are Jews a "Race"?

    By Rabbi Tzvi Freeman

    While the Jewish people began with the descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, many people have converted to become Jews over the millennia--beginning with the "mixed multitude" that came with us out of Egypt. Today there are African Jews, Japanese Jews, even Eskimo Jews. It seems difficult to call such a mixture a "race".

    (Incidently, there is really no such thing as a "race." The term "race" implies to most people that there are different categories of human beings based on their genetic makeup. The fact is that there is no basis in genetics for these distinctions. For example, an African from one family may have more in common genetically with a Swede than with another African.)

    What could be said is that we are a "family". A family can adopt others as their own. But there are conditions to adoption. You need to keep the family rules. In our case, those rules have to do with the mission we were given at Mount Sinai over 3300 years ago.

    From http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...ews-a-Race.htm

  8. #53
    Chemistry Experiment heavyiron's Avatar
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    Exactly Curt. No "race" is completely pure but there are identifiable gene variations that are common among Jews.


    All posts are for entertainment and may contain fiction. Consult a doctor before using any medications. heavyiron does not advocate readers engage in any illegal activity.


  9. #54
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Exactly Curt. No "race" is completely pure but there are identifiable gene variations that are common among Jews.
    Judaism is not a race. It's a religion, right? However, from the articles I posted, it seems being a Jew is being a member of a race (even though the good rabbi states that word is an imaginary term).

    Regardless of that argument, Dorian done fuuu'd up by posting that hateful crap on his Facebook page.

  10. #55
    Chemistry Experiment heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    Judaism is not a race. It's a religion, right? However, from the articles I posted, it seems being a Jew is being a member of a race (even though the good rabbi states that word is an imaginary term).

    Regardless of that argument, Dorian done fuuu'd up by posting that hateful crap on his Facebook page.
    Lets assume they are not a race at ALL. Even though the DNA evidence refutes that generally speaking lets make the assumption anyway. Then Dorian's remarks are directed towards a religion (Judaism) not a "race". This is equally offensive and hateful. Either way you look at it, it is hate and it's insensitive and it's morally offensive. Parsing the words is just a petty attempt to muddy the waters IMHO.


    All posts are for entertainment and may contain fiction. Consult a doctor before using any medications. heavyiron does not advocate readers engage in any illegal activity.


  11. #56
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Lets assume they are not a race at ALL. Even though the DNA evidence refutes that generally speaking lets make the assumption anyway.
    Was simply quoting the one bit of what one rabbi said.

    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Then Dorian's remarks are directed towards a religion (Judaism) not a "race". This is equally offensive and hateful. Either way you look at it, it is hate and it's insensitive and it's morally offensive. Parsing the words is just a petty attempt to muddy the waters IMHO.
    But this I agree with 100%. I used the term splitting hairs. Wth was Dorian thinking?

  12. #57
    Chemistry Experiment heavyiron's Avatar
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    Any way you look at it, Dorian made a mess that only he can fix. It is my sincere hope he will delete that rubbish off his page and apologize.


    All posts are for entertainment and may contain fiction. Consult a doctor before using any medications. heavyiron does not advocate readers engage in any illegal activity.


  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Any way you look at it, Dorian made a mess that only he can fix. It is my sincere hope he will delete that rubbish off his page and apologize.
    NO ONE - ESPECIALLY NOT ME - has condoned Dorian's article or argued that it wasn't insensitive or historically inaccurate. Everytime you run into a wall you use this fallback.

    I don't have anything against you, never have. However, when you start name calling (e.g. calling someone obtuse, the whole mood changes).

    My only point was that Judaism is not a race. Nite.
    Last edited by MITM; 04-17-2014 at 12:05 AM.

  14. #59
    Chemistry Experiment heavyiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristianDuque View Post
    NO ONE - ESPECIALLY NOT ME - has condoned Dorian's article or argued that it wasn't insensitive or historically inaccurate. Everytime you run into a wall you use this fallback.

    I don't have anything against you, never have. However, when you start name calling (e.g. calling someone obtuse, the whole mood changes).

    My only point was that Judaism is not a race. Nite.
    The post you quoted was in no way directed at you. I have only hit a wall in your mind.


    All posts are for entertainment and may contain fiction. Consult a doctor before using any medications. heavyiron does not advocate readers engage in any illegal activity.


  15. #60
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Any way you look at it, Dorian made a mess that only he can fix. It is my sincere hope he will delete that rubbish off his page and apologize.
    I haven't been back to Yates' FB page since I first checked it out after reading Dave's post on Rx Muscle. Wouldn't hold my breath for an apology. :-(

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