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  1. #1
    RX MEMBER liftw8t's Avatar
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    Default Off Season Women's Physique The Right Way?

    So I realize this is the women section of forum, and I'm posting on behalf of my fiancé. She wants to compete physique eventually and we know she needs to add the muscle, but we are afraid of putting on too much fat. I understand being a bodybuilder myself that body fat and water retention comes with bulking. I've prepped bikini and figure competitors but kept them lean in off season not really adding any muscle just maintaining, so I'm a little lost. I know its harder for women to add muscle naturally, so looking for some insight on best way to go about everything. From training, to diet, to supplementation pretty much starting from scratch. Thanks for any help ladies :-)

  2. #2
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    Depends on individual obviously in terms of metabolism but..

    Reduce carbs mildly in off season but about 20 weeks out stating adding. 12 weeks out should be full focus on density.

    8x meals a day.

    8oz uncooked protein
    7oz uncooked carb (oatmeal, sweet potato, brown rice only)
    Green of choice.

    All this even on days off.

    My is NPC winner in physique. She trained 1 hour only MWF for weight training and 4 35-40 min cardio sessions/week until 14 days out then 7 days until 1 week out THEN NO CARDIO THE LAST WEEK.

    She reduced carbs to almost nothing 48 hrs pre then carbed up on contest day. She is 36.

    Just some 2 cents.

  3. #3
    RX MEMBER liftw8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drrayfitness View Post
    Depends on individual obviously in terms of metabolism but..

    Reduce carbs mildly in off season but about 20 weeks out stating adding. 12 weeks out should be full focus on density.

    8x meals a day.

    8oz uncooked protein
    7oz uncooked carb (oatmeal, sweet potato, brown rice only)
    Green of choice.

    All this even on days off.

    My is NPC winner in physique. She trained 1 hour only MWF for weight training and 4 35-40 min cardio sessions/week until 14 days out then 7 days until 1 week out THEN NO CARDIO THE LAST WEEK.

    She reduced carbs to almost nothing 48 hrs pre then carbed up on contest day. She is 36.

    Just some 2 cents.
    Thanks drrayfitness!

    Honestly we aren't aiming for a particular show just taking time to gain the muscle and maybe mock diet for 8 weeks at some point to bring her body fat down. As of now her metabolism is probably crap, she needs a good detox as well. We were planning on taking the next 6 weeks to diet her down before we leave out the country then bulk when we get back. But how do you train in offseason for physique, do you lift heavy? And how often do you measure body fat?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    In the off-season, you train to maintain fullness. Don't be so concerned with bodyfat unless she has unusually high percentage right now. You will get to the point where you won't have to take BF measurements, you will just be able to tell.

    Keep eating clean with the carbs in the off-season and expect a higher BF than say 20 weeks pre-contest.

    What supplements is she planning on taking?

    Here is Maria.






  5. #5
    RX MEMBER liftw8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drrayfitness View Post
    In the off-season, you train to maintain fullness. Don't be so concerned with bodyfat unless she has unusually high percentage right now. You will get to the point where you won't have to take BF measurements, you will just be able to tell.

    Keep eating clean with the carbs in the off-season and expect a higher BF than say 20 weeks pre-contest.

    What supplements is she planning on taking?

    Here is Maria.





    Oh wow she looks amazing! Well we are going to bring it down the bodyfat first, then plan to do a 40/40/20 protein/carbs/fat keeping it clean. Supplements we were planning to stick with the basics now: CLA, Creatine HCL, BCAA/EAA, Glutamine Sustamine, Yohimbine HCL, Multi-Vitamin, Maca, and DIM. Anything else you'd suggest?

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    TEAM CUTLER, Chem Forum Leader Sandpig's Avatar
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    Agreed, she looks great

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    CutlerAthletics.com

    CutlerNutrition.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by liftw8t View Post
    Oh wow she looks amazing! Well we are going to bring it down the bodyfat first, then plan to do a 40/40/20 protein/carbs/fat keeping it clean. Supplements we were planning to stick with the basics now: CLA, Creatine HCL, BCAA/EAA, Glutamine Sustamine, Yohimbine HCL, Multi-Vitamin, Maca, and DIM. Anything else you'd suggest?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    My question would be..does she want to be completely natural?

  8. #8
    RX MEMBER liftw8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drrayfitness View Post
    My question would be..does she want to be completely natural?
    Just to start off as she hasn't even done the basics that I listed above yet, but going into her first competition she would like to be enhanced to really obtain the muscle and hardness she wants to bring in. But we haven't talked about anything more than T3 or Clen as we are a little clueless about interactions with birth control (rod in arm) and I didn't think that could be talked about outside of the "fem chem" section so I didn't want to mention.

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    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftw8t View Post
    Just to start off as she hasn't even done the basics that I listed above yet, but going into her first competition she would like to be enhanced to really obtain the muscle and hardness she wants to bring in. But we haven't talked about anything more than T3 or Clen as we are a little clueless about interactions with birth control (rod in arm) and I didn't think that could be talked about outside of the "fem chem" section so I didn't want to mention.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    To drray's diet - be sure you're including good quality fats. I've personally had a fuck of a time getting in more than 6 meals / day- so personally I'd recommend 6 meals vs 8 per day. And simply, to deal w/ keeping a clean bulk, I would recommend doing a carb rotation approach and put your higher carb days on the days of heavy lifting and lighter on the days of lighter lifting or cardio only. You can choose to also calorie rotate w/ that, but I personally prefer to substitute equal calories of fats for the carbs removed on lower carb days, so the total cals are constant but the carb / fat ratios vary for the higher or lower carb days.

    RE: the drugs, I would very much stay away from fucking around t3 & clen if and until it is competition time. Please see my article about Women & Drugs for more details on this whole subject - most of your questions will be addressed: http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthrea...omen-amp-Drugs

    Note I don't address prohormones.

    And just lift fucking balls to the wall. Put in the time to grow the muscle and let it become part of her physique. This also allows time for the supporting soft tissue structures (tendons, ligaments) to build to support the weight the muscles are trying to lift.

    Also if you are talking about starting from pretty basic to getting on stage to compete in Physique, particularly using drugs, I'd highly recommend ensuring that good solid warm up / stretching / functional mobility / flexibility is included in your program. Drugs may mask pain when you are using them, but you really need to give a lot of respect to the smaller joints, ligaments & tendons as you get into this sport lifting heavier, and ultimately hitting your 40s when shit starts to fall apart. Establish the good habits that will promote longevity in the sport & in quality of life.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  10. #10
    RX MEMBER liftw8t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassy69 View Post
    To drray's diet - be sure you're including good quality fats. I've personally had a fuck of a time getting in more than 6 meals / day- so personally I'd recommend 6 meals vs 8 per day. And simply, to deal w/ keeping a clean bulk, I would recommend doing a carb rotation approach and put your higher carb days on the days of heavy lifting and lighter on the days of lighter lifting or cardio only. You can choose to also calorie rotate w/ that, but I personally prefer to substitute equal calories of fats for the carbs removed on lower carb days, so the total cals are constant but the carb / fat ratios vary for the higher or lower carb days.

    RE: the drugs, I would very much stay away from fucking around t3 & clen if and until it is competition time. Please see my article about Women & Drugs for more details on this whole subject - most of your questions will be addressed: http://forums.rxmuscle.com/showthrea...omen-amp-Drugs

    Note I don't address prohormones.

    And just lift fucking balls to the wall. Put in the time to grow the muscle and let it become part of her physique. This also allows time for the supporting soft tissue structures (tendons, ligaments) to build to support the weight the muscles are trying to lift.

    Also if you are talking about starting from pretty basic to getting on stage to compete in Physique, particularly using drugs, I'd highly recommend ensuring that good solid warm up / stretching / functional mobility / flexibility is included in your program. Drugs may mask pain when you are using them, but you really need to give a lot of respect to the smaller joints, ligaments & tendons as you get into this sport lifting heavier, and ultimately hitting your 40s when shit starts to fall apart. Establish the good habits that will promote longevity in the sport & in quality of life.
    Thanks Sassy I have read your article and it was very informative. I personally would like to keep her away from drug use for a couple years and build a more solid foundation, as I don't like the idea of manipulating her hormones. I love her very much and like myself want to focus on longevity in the sport and staying healthy for her as well. But I know the choice is hers at end of the day and for the level of muscle and conditioning she wants I know we will have to cross that road just like men do. She needs to learn basics first with diet and general supplements which is what I'm really trying to achieve, just don't want to get her fat by bulking her in attempts to add muscle.

    A question you might be able to answer in regards to supplements is, how about natural testosterone boosters like (tribulus, dhea, or even anti estrogens)?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftw8t View Post
    Thanks Sassy I have read your article and it was very informative. I personally would like to keep her away from drug use for a couple years and build a more solid foundation, as I don't like the idea of manipulating her hormones. I love her very much and like myself want to focus on longevity in the sport and staying healthy for her as well. But I know the choice is hers at end of the day and for the level of muscle and conditioning she wants I know we will have to cross that road just like men do. She needs to learn basics first with diet and general supplements which is what I'm really trying to achieve, just don't want to get her fat by bulking her in attempts to add muscle.

    A question you might be able to answer in regards to supplements is, how about natural testosterone boosters like (tribulus, dhea, or even anti estrogens)?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    I can't agree more. People get so hung up on getting on stage and skip "the lifestyle" part. Esp you want to compete in Physique, put in the time to build the base first. Also she needs to get more experience w/ how her body responds to diet variations and various training approaches, as well as simply establishing the habits. Competition is fucking hard and shouldn't be taken lightly - get the base in place first before adding in a whole bunch of other things she should be knowledgeable of and responsible for w/ the drugs.

    RE: OTC test boosters - I don't know anyone who likes using tribulus - it definitely will get some fun hormone stuf going - water retention & breakouts is what I remember. DHEA - dunno - since these are OTC, you can find more research or else simply try them.

    RE: Anti-estrogens - NO! WHY would she use them? They are not "anti-estrogens" - they are SERMs (nolvadex) and aromatase inhibitors (AIs). Nolva is the only thing I'd suggest ONCE SHE GETS TO COMPETITION. AIs - no. They are intended to help control aromatization from longer ester test sources but they generally cause full etrogen shutdown for women which can really fuck things up. And you are probably familiar w/ winstrol which has an aromatization aspect to it - same thing - kills the estrogen production, dries out joints, can be extremely painful and promote joint injury. The female estrogen cycle is incredibly picky and incredibly resliient. None of these are "weight loss protocols" and should only be used for a limited time (e.g. 4-8 weeks) to dial into a particular date or event. Once you come off, the whole estrogen process kicks back in, frequently w/ a vengeance, and whatever fat suppressing aspects it was providing are now gone - you don't maintain the "results". And lastly, particularly if she is trying to build mass right now, you need estrogen to build muscle - so trying to suppress it to "stay lean" or whatever, will really just compromise your quest to build quality mass.

    That is also discussed in the artlcle mentioned. The BEST thing she can do is stay focused primarily on eating to grow and lifting balls to the wall and getting good quality sleep / recovery. IMO screwing around w/ vairous chemistry that you, as a bodybuilder, may know about, is beyond what she needs to be spending time on or getting dsitracted by "to go to the next level".
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



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