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  1. #16
    OLYMPIAN The Solution's Avatar
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    Thats on them, Not Doug.

    I doubt Doug would do that to tarnish his own reputation, his own services he offers, or how he promotes natural bodybuilding to the greatest degree.
    He is one of the larger contributers to Natural Bodybuilding and the major events they do sponsor to help keep it alive/afloat.

    not to mention his intro to his website:

    "Welcome to DougMillerPro.com. I am an IFPA drug-free professional bodybuilder and former IFPA Yorton Cup World Champ. The better half of "Team Miller," my wife Stephanie Miller, is an IFPA drug-free figure competitor, personal trainer, and also former IFPA Yorton Cup World Champion."


    Anyone can make as many accusations as they want. until you meet the guy, train with the guy, and see the passion he has for the sport and what he truly believes in everything else is just hear say.




    Hell i have seen a 20 year old win the teen class in a NPC national level show..
    Last edited by The Solution; 11-14-2014 at 08:46 PM.
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  2. #17
    Administrator Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Thats on them, Not Doug.

    I doubt Doug would do that to tarnish his own reputation, his own services he offers, or how he promotes natural bodybuilding to the greatest degree.
    .
    Did you read my first sentence?

    My statement is in regards to people beating drug tests, not that Doug does.

  3. #18
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    2009...



    People love to debate this ish...


  4. #19
    Lilac Haired Assassin Hit-Girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    Did you read my first sentence?

    My statement is in regards to people beating drug tests, not that Doug does.
    Still sorta implies he could cheat on a test because others have.
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  5. #20
    Administrator Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hit-Girl View Post
    Still sorta implies he could cheat on a test because others have.
    Still sorta, kinda. I said that just because someone passes a drug test doesn't mean they are natural or that you know he is because he is a good guy. That's the part I was refuting.

    It was a naive statement Bob made based on his firm belief that he is natural just because he says so or it's on a web site.

    My web site says that our software is the best in it's class, therefor it must be true.

    However, no implying now. I don't believe he is natural and I would kill to look like he does.

    And I could care less how he got to that condition.
    Last edited by Mac; 11-15-2014 at 06:29 AM.

  6. #21
    OLYMPIAN The Solution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post

    It was a naive statement Bob made based on his firm belief that he is natural just because he says so or it's on a web site.

    My web site says that our software is the best in it's class, therefor it must be true.

    However, no implying now. I don't believe he is natural and I would kill to look like he does.

    And I could care less how he got to that condition.
    I have known him personally for over a half decade, i have followed his progress since his 2009 showing above that curt posted. If you want to debate else wise thats on you. Your statement is invalid until your "Assumption" he is not natural is proven.

    Again your assumptions are just that until you can show it.
    For 95% of you on here this is probably the first time you have probably heard of doug.

    Just like how people the first time they see or hear about Layne on here they shoot him down with the drug claims and accusations, but yet he is now going to be lifting @ the arnold after his win at Raw Nationals in CO.

    Same could be said with Alberto Nunez
    Ben Goins
    Kurt Weider
    Brian Whitacre

    and the list can go on and on and on for those who are genetically gifted, and some are not they just busted their ass to get where they are today (layne for example) looked like a soccer player growing up.
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  7. #22
    Administrator Mac's Avatar
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    I don't need to debate or validate my assumptions like you do.

    You're missing the entire point I am making, but that's OK.

  8. #23
    OLYMPIAN data4's Avatar
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    The guy has superior 1 percentile genetics, knows exactly what he is doing, doesnt compete that often, owns his own supplement company and has been doing this for YEARS etc. I do believe he is natural. He always passes his tests. Granted they are urine but still I really dont think he has anything to hide from because honestly he could mop up just about any NPC show out there like he already did recently after his pro natural win.

    Not to mention he has only improved marginally since his last show. Yes he did gain some size but in that amount of time with those genetics I would surely hope he would gain more if he were pushing gear.
    Last edited by data4; 11-15-2014 at 07:56 AM.
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  9. #24
    OLYMPIAN davidcua's Avatar
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    I just imagine Chris and Dave on HMR laughing out load at the idea that Doug Miller is "natural" or does not take PEDs. That's hilarious. As far as i'm concern, I think he is in amazing shape, must have good genetics and amazing work ethics (nutrition and training wise). The fact that he take steroids does not invalidate his hard work in my eyes. What matters is the End product.

  10. #25
    OLYMPIAN davidcua's Avatar
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    OH and about the Urine drug test … Come on Everybody knows that you can easily beat these. If you're careful about the drugs you take and/ or the timing. If you don't know, than there is lots of literature on this subject.

  11. #26
    Administrator Mac's Avatar
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    Superior genetics is the key, both physically and mentally regardless of what he puts into his body.

    Whatever he takes or does to achieve that condition, I applaud him.

    Those extraterrestrial genes are spreading.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poker face Ace View Post
    I know because I have been around "This game". I Know because human body in the gym NEVER builds muscle that fast naturally. You my friend have no clue what your friend does behind your back so just because you say "I Know him" really means nada
    ^^^^
    This

  13. #28
    OLYMPIAN The Solution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by data4 View Post
    The guy has superior 1 percentile genetics, knows exactly what he is doing, doesnt compete that often, owns his own supplement company and has been doing this for YEARS etc. I do believe he is natural. He always passes his tests. Granted they are urine but still I really dont think he has anything to hide from because honestly he could mop up just about any NPC show out there like he already did recently after his pro natural win.

    Not to mention he has only improved marginally since his last show. Yes he did gain some size but in that amount of time with those genetics I would surely hope he would gain more if he were pushing gear.
    ^^^
    Exactly......

    LOL'd hard at some of the PM's i got regarding some comments in this thread lol
    Last edited by The Solution; 11-15-2014 at 04:35 PM.
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  14. #29
    IFBB PRO AnthBailes's Avatar
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    I can believe he is natural.Genetic Freaks are out there guys....

  15. #30
    OLYMPIAN Todd Lincoln's Avatar
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    Here is an interesting insight by Mike Arnold from another board on this topic that I found to be very telling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    Is it likely he is drug-free? No. Is it possible he is drug-free? Yes.

    Way too many people are far to quick to call everyone a "liar" when it comes to their claims of being natty. Basically, anyone who looks like they're using drugs, but claims natty, is labeled a liar. It doesn't matter if there is any proof or not. The problem with this line of thinking is that it doesn't leave any room for genetic freaks. Once someone has seen just how wide and deep the gene pool actually is, they learn not to make these kind of assumptions anymore.

    I was just talking about this subject the other day with one of my close friends. You see, these days many people have a pre-formed conception of what it means to be a "genetic freak" and and if someone displays attributes which do not fit that preconceived mold, then the individual in question is automatically written off as a liar. But...there are genetic freaks and there are super genetic freaks. Whenever someone is a super genetic freak, particularly if they happen to find their way into BB'ing, they have no chance of anyone believing they're natural, even if they are.

    During the conversation with my friend, we started talking about an old friend of ours, who to this day, has the best genetics for BB'ing of anyone I have ever laid eyes on. When I say "anyone" I am even including Ronnie Coleman. Of course, just saying that will have most people calling bullshit, but I would not say something like this--and in fact, I never have until now--unless I thought it was a very real possibility. This person never pursued BB'ing, but lifted only briefly in high school. He was a very close friend of mine during those years--we did everything together. To attempt to put his genetics into words is somewhat difficult. Most people, when trying to picture him in their heads, will naturally and unintentionally undermine his genetic ability simply because he was so far beyond the norm. His genetics were so insane that he made what we would normally call a genetic freak look like a normal person.

    It has now been over 20 years since I first saw his potential for what it was and even today, my opinion remains the same. Actually, it has only been strengthened over time after seeing more of what the world has to offer in terms of genetic ability. I have no doubts that had he taken his genetics as far as possible, he would be a better BB'r than any pro on the scene today. He would be Mr. Olympia.

    I will attempt to put into words what this guy was like from a physical standpoint. Also, it is important to clarify that he had never used a BB'ing drug in his life--not even to this day:

    * At 15 years old he benched 405 lbs with 3 months training (his diet involved only what his mother cooked him and his training was irregular)

    * At 15 years old squatted to depth 600 lbs with a pause in the hole because he did not know when he as supposed to come up. Again, 3 months training.

    * At 15 he was 6'0 and 215 lbs with sub-10% (probably around 8-9%).

    * His shape and structure were phenomenal. Very wide clavicles, small waist, perfect proportion. Muscle bellies like Flex Wheeler, but better. The amount of muscle he crammed into those bellies was sick. Beautiful shape throughout his entire body.

    * Muscle detail was out of this world. He had triceps which I believe would have eclipsed Phil Heath and Levrone had he wanted to become a BB'r. At just 16 years old, his triceps were loaded with cross-striations covering every inch of his triceps. It was like you could see right through his skin. They were just just unbelievably detailed (more than any pro on the scene today), but it wasn't just the level of detail, it was the unbelievable muscle bellies he had. His out triceps not only extended all the way down to his elbow, but the amount of area they covered took up nearly his entire outer arm. To just see this kid extend his arm and flex his tris blew people's minds. His biceps, while not incredily peaked, were near as good in terms of detail, separation, and fullness. His chest was every bit as good as his tris. It was shaped as well as Arnold--every bit as good. Super full, wide, round and just hanging off his chest...oh, and loaded with striations from top to bottom. I am not going to describe every bodypart, but let's just say that not only did he not have any weak bodyparts, but every bodypart was phenomenal in both shape, length of muscle bellies, and detail. I have never to this day met anyone with his combination of shape, structure, detail, and super full muscle bellies.

    * It was not just his physical attributes which made him so impressive. It was the fact that he accomplished all this barely eating anything and training irregularly and never too hard. he did absolutely nothing to help facilitate progress. He had issues with his appetite (I was regularly over to his house for dinner) and his parents were always thinking something was wrong because he never wanted to eat. Dinner would often be nothing but a half of a chicken breast and a salad (his family had salad with every dinner). He might drink a glass of milk here and there, but he basically bypassed most of the food that was put on the table. Breakfast was comprised of fruit snacks, but he did eat lunch--whatever the school cafeteria was serving, although he rarely finished it. I know, because I would eat all his left-over food.

    * Without any reason at all, aside from the way he looked, the school principal and guidance counselor, on more than one occasion, brought him into their office for "steroid" talks. Everyone in the entire school, including every teacher and staff member, thought he was juiced up. they even brought me into the office to try and get me to admit he was using gear, as if I would do that to my friend. They would play it like "if you care about your friend...", yadda, yadda.

    * The first time I brought him to a known gym, which contained multiple national level BB'rs, saw him get flanked by these men. After about 30 minutes, we saw them all talking together in a group, looking over at us. They then proceeded to all walk over at once and literally surround my friend, asking him who he was, how long he had been training, what he was taking, and afterwards, told him he had the potential to go all the way to the very top if he had the drive. A couple of these men, if I were to post their names, would be immediately recognizable to everyone here--or at least they should be.

    * This kid could look at weights and grow...and even if he didn't train at all, he still looked phenomenal. To simplify things, he looked like a BB'r without even having to train.

    There is much else I could say about him, such as the fact he could throw a 98 MPH fast-ball (clocked time) at 16 years old, could throw a football farther than the high school quarterback, and had the punching power of a trained adult boxer. There is more, but lest it seem to unbelievable, I will stop there.

    So, what did he end up doing with himself? He never took advantage of his immense physical gifts, despite basically everyone telling him he should. Usually, normally, when a kid says "I want to a be a professional athlete", the parents and teachers attempt to guide the kid onto a more reliable career path. With him, he was actually being TOLD by teachers, parents, and others that he should try and make a career out of professional sports....to the EXCLUSION of regular schooling!!!!! His potential was THAT obvious to everyone who encountered him.

    Everything sounds great up to this point, but there is always a downside to every upside, so what was it in his case? His mind. He had an IQ of only 78, making him officially borderline retarded. Although he appeared normal while interacting with him, it was pretty obvious that his intelliegence was significantly below average. The inability to understand simple concepts, to pick up on the nuances of conversation, or have any sort of deep communication were things he had a hard time with. He just wasn't functioning on the same level as everyone else. He barely graduated high school, requiring daily tutoring just to get D's. The sad thing is that he was actually a very good-looking guy--was regularly approached by attractive women showing clear interest, but after some conversation, most went their separate ways. For those he did manage to date, it never lasted more than a few weeks--a couple months at best.

    Today, he lives in a small house given to him by his parents, while working a menial job doing the same repetitive task over and over again. He is an alcoholic, single, and hasn't touched a weight since high-school. Even now, his physique is still tremendous, despite a diet consisting of beer and chicken wings and no physical activity outside of walking to and from his car. Unfortunately, due to his limited intelligence, he never realized the physical gifts he was given, nor did he realize that pursuing a career in sports was his best bet for success.

    The point here is that there are people in this world who are super freaks--people who could easily look like "Doug Miller" and be drug-free. They are few and far between--and most don't get involved in BB'ing, but they exist. Unfortunately, most people don't leave any room for these men when defining the boundaries of what is and isn't possible in BB'ing. Very few people in this world pursue BB'ing seriously, so we have not even come close to seeing the full depth of the gene pool.

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