The Pro versus NPC Coverage disconnect

[Curt James]

In all seriousness its been a consistent issue with each person that I've started a thread about featuring them from one of my magazine features. I invite them as there have been positive commentaries by posters, but without fail there is an issue and no easy problem free sign up and post pathway for them to respond.

I would imagine this is a bigger problem than acknowledged publicly as with any business for every one that complains there are ten that simply don't come back.

Published this video in December. Of 2013. Not sure how I can make it any easier. And I can only address the problems I'm aware of.

[Curt James]

Let me know if someone has a problem and I will follow-up to find out what is happening that could deter the registration.

If you are still having problems signing up please contact a member of our support staff at [email protected]

Thank you, Mac!

[Joe Pietaro]

Regardless of what magazines or forums like this do though it seems to me evident that they have less influence on the industry as a whole if the vast majority of their attention is on the top professionals. Its like ignoring college football and only focusing on the NFL. Surely, everyone LUVS the NFL, but what college ball doesn't have value? Sure it does.

How has Crossfit become such a popularly celebrated television commodity as compared to bodybuilding IF we only consider the role of media enterprises themselves and STOP claiming the sanctioning body is responsible?

I think we agree that its the lack of vision, experience and know how of the media enterprises involved is the primary contributor. I strongly believe at this stage the sanctioning body website is the best source of coverage of the sport from top to bottom. That's a sad commentary on the wherewithal of the private sector.

The sport is more than just the contests - amateur and pro alike. Who is getting the most attention on the Internet today? Not Big Ramy, Wolf, Cutler or Heath. It's guys like Rich Piana, Bostin Loyd, Marc Lobliner and Jerry Ward. That's why I am trying to get as many of these guys associated with MSM and not concern myself with an IFBB pro that doesn't even bother to post on Twitter or Instagram.

Bodybuilding is an entire lifestyle and while I hate using that old cliche, it kind of fits as to what I am doing. Anyone who was at the Arnold saw what I saw - Piana's booth kicked ass and had the longest line - more than DLB, who had a great crowd there, as well.

Quite frankly, the vast majority of competitors are not that exciting and have no personality when it comes to doing videos and audio podcasts. These guys that I named have built very successful careers doing just that and that's where a lot of people are missing the boat. Paying Dexter Jackson to have someone else write his column is plain asinine.

[Professor X]

The sport is more than just the contests - amateur and pro alike. Who is getting the most attention on the Internet today? Not Big Ramy, Wolf, Cutler or Heath. It's guys like Rich Piana, Bostin Loyd, Marc Lobliner and Jerry Ward. That's why I am trying to get as many of these guys associated with MSM and not concern myself with an IFBB pro that doesn't even bother to post on Twitter or Instagram.

Bodybuilding is an entire lifestyle and while I hate using that old cliche, it kind of fits as to what I am doing. Anyone who was at the Arnold saw what I saw - Piana's booth kicked ass and had the longest line - more than DLB, who had a great crowd there, as well.

Quite frankly, the vast majority of competitors are not that exciting and have no personality when it comes to doing videos and audio podcasts. These guys that I named have built very successful careers doing just that and that's where a lot of people are missing the boat. Paying Dexter Jackson to have someone else write his column is plain asinine.

All of that is amazing considering many bodybuilders in years past acted like you couldn't even speak on bodybuilding unless you were an active competitor.

[bigmikecox]

The sport is more than just the contests - amateur and pro alike. Who is getting the most attention on the Internet today? Not Big Ramy, Wolf, Cutler or Heath. It's guys like Rich Piana, Bostin Loyd, Marc Lobliner and Jerry Ward. That's why I am trying to get as many of these guys associated with MSM and not concern myself with an IFBB pro that doesn't even bother to post on Twitter or Instagram.

Bodybuilding is an entire lifestyle and while I hate using that old cliche, it kind of fits as to what I am doing. Anyone who was at the Arnold saw what I saw - Piana's booth kicked ass and had the longest line - more than DLB, who had a great crowd there, as well.

Quite frankly, the vast majority of competitors are not that exciting and have no personality when it comes to doing videos and audio podcasts. These guys that I named have built very successful careers doing just that and that's where a lot of people are missing the boat. Paying Dexter Jackson to have someone else write his column is plain asinine.

Jason Genova FTW

[Joe Pietaro]

All of that is amazing considering many bodybuilders in years past acted like you couldn't even speak on bodybuilding unless you were an active competitor.

The one distinct advantage that the guys who aren't competing have is that they don't have any reason to be PC or worry about if they say something that will piss off the wrong people. So they seem more genuine because they are.

When you have to beat around the bush or outright lie about stuff, then people will pick up on that bullshit and that will limit your credibility in their eyes.

I would rather hear the truth, as it is more informative and entertaining.

[Musclepapa John]

I part ways with you on this view, but of course I'm a Manion ass kisser; chuckle, chuckle. Rich is a good example; great arms, ink and controversial persona, but as a media enterprise if you focus on only picking out the non-contenders that point to conspiracy theories as to why they didn't do well you in the process are narrowcasting the sport as corrupt and irrelevant. I'll side with the NFL owners every time over the bad boys that do colorful talk from the bleachers. Its the talent in the wings that are our bread and butter not a few flamboyant bad boys.

As to credibility Shawn Ray, Bob Chic and yes Dave Palumbo have spoken out and been forthright, disagreed with officials, etc and still do well.

The one distinct advantage that the guys who aren't competing have is that they don't have any reason to be PC or worry about if they say something that will piss off the wrong people. So they seem more genuine because they are.

When you have to beat around the bush or outright lie about stuff, then people will pick up on that bullshit and that will limit your credibility in their eyes.

I would rather hear the truth, as it is more informative and entertaining.

[Professor X]

The one distinct advantage that the guys who aren't competing have is that they don't have any reason to be PC or worry about if they say something that will piss off the wrong people. So they seem more genuine because they are.

When you have to beat around the bush or outright lie about stuff, then people will pick up on that bullshit and that will limit your credibility in their eyes.

I would rather hear the truth, as it is more informative and entertaining.

Oh, I agree. I just remember getting negative comments on another forum because I never competed but was giving advice and opinions. Even though I have made more physical progress than most of the people complaining I was apparently not able to speak on it because I hadn't been on stage.

I always put it like this; if the lifter has arms twice the size of your own, you can learn something from them.

That guy with 20" arms didn't get them by accident.

[Musclepapa John]

Thank you, but you know I've contacted you and/or had ladies contacting you as they were having difficulties. Plus, to their credit I believe all of these ladies were professionals in their non-stage activities. So it wasn't from lack of their intelligence that caused the issue. Video platforms like the one you made the video for will help those looking for video tutorials. Not sure what gateway to the site that is offered on, but know that some people particularly with limited bandwidth on their mobile devices stray away from clicking videos.

Published this video in December. Of 2013. Not sure how I can make it any easier. And I can only address the problems I'm aware of.

[Curt James]

Thank you, but you know I've contacted you and/or had ladies contacting you as they were having difficulties. Plus, to their credit I believe all of these ladies were professionals in their non-stage activities. So it wasn't from lack of their intelligence that caused the issue. Video platforms like the one you made the video for will help those looking for video tutorials. Not sure what gateway to the site that is offered on, but know that some people particularly with limited bandwidth on their mobile devices stray away from clicking videos.

Rx Muscle on Facebook for one. I typically post the tutorial registration video along with any forum-related or front page thread that I'm linking to.

[Joe Pietaro]

I part ways with you on this view, but of course I'm a Manion ass kisser; chuckle, chuckle. Rich is a good example; great arms, ink and controversial persona, but as a media enterprise if you focus on only picking out the non-contenders that point to conspiracy theories as to why they didn't do well you in the process are narrowcasting the sport as corrupt and irrelevant. I'll side with the NFL owners every time over the bad boys that do colorful talk from the bleachers. Its the talent in the wings that are our bread and butter not a few flamboyant bad boys.

I totally get where you're coming from and understand and respect that position. Business is business and the bottom line is the most important thing.

From my point of view, I would rather watch Piana talking about anything but contests and personally haven't seen any of his videos where he spoke about a conspiracy against his placings. He brings a lot more to the table than that and his millions of YouTube views come from him being a no-nonsense guy.

Piana is a marketing genius and has forged a spot for himself in this industry that he would never had the opportunity to do otherwise if he was just another one of those guys hitting the NPC stage in search of a pro card. Even if he did turn pro, what he has accomplished with his 5% crew would dwarf anything that he would have done by being signed by MD or FLEX as an exclusive athlete.

As to credibility Shawn Ray, Bob Chic and yes Dave Palumbo have spoken out and been forthright, disagreed with officials, etc and still do well.

Chick lost a lot of his credibility with the "mass consumption of food is the culprit, not insulin or GH" in that video with himself, Peter and WisconsinBB before the Europa Orlando. He only tried to blame insulin more after he took a bunch of shots on the MD thread...including a few huge blows from Shawn Ray. It was refreshing to see that and I have even more respect for Shawn for calling out his co-worker on that issue.

And Dave has had dealt with a lot of flak for giving his honest opinion.

[Musclepapa John]

I agree that ALL the athletes have to do more than talk about contests. That part can be monotonous and boring. The bit of negative stuff he's said about competing were enough to drive an inside the beltway sort of guy like me away. Props to him for finding his own way. It can be done without setting the barn on fire in the process though DLB has done quite well and pretty much only complained about not getting mag covers.

I don't think Bob loses much in the way of credibility for any one position he takes and how much a handful of people tethered to a forum or two think about him. He doesn't work for the feds, but rather the promoters that hire him as emcee etc. He is good at it. Great at it in fact.

Going against the grain and claiming the judging sucks etc can get you some flak no doubt especially if you are doing it at an event where the head judge is sitting only a few feet away from you. I'm sure you'd get similar flak in the NFL and NBA if calling the owners out (equivalent of judges in the IFBB & NPC as they are show promoters too). Arnold might can do it, but he is a movie star and former governor insulated against retaliation. Bob didn't agree with Arnold, but as he contended sense Arnold could as easily have his event as an invitation only show if he wanted to effect change. The Columbus fireside chat wasn't the correct time to provide that retort, but all due respect for his stating it online and in print since.

I totally get where you're coming from and understand and respect that position. Business is business and the bottom line is the most important thing.

From my point of view, I would rather watch Piana talking about anything but contests and personally haven't seen any of his videos where he spoke about a conspiracy against his placings. He brings a lot more to the table than that and his millions of YouTube views come from him being a no-nonsense guy.

Piana is a marketing genius and has forged a spot for himself in this industry that he would never had the opportunity to do otherwise if he was just another one of those guys hitting the NPC stage in search of a pro card. Even if he did turn pro, what he has accomplished with his 5% crew would dwarf anything that he would have done by being signed by MD or FLEX as an exclusive athlete.


Chick lost a lot of his credibility with the "mass consumption of food is the culprit, not insulin or GH" in that video with himself, Peter and WisconsinBB before the Europa Orlando. He only tried to blame insulin more after he took a bunch of shots on the MD thread...including a few huge blows from Shawn Ray. It was refreshing to see that and I have even more respect for Shawn for calling out his co-worker on that issue.

And Dave has had dealt with a lot of flak for giving his honest opinion.

[Joe Pietaro]

I agree that ALL the athletes have to do more than talk about contests. That part can be monotonous and boring. The bit of negative stuff he's said about competing were enough to drive an inside the beltway sort of guy like me away. Props to him for finding his own way. It can be done without setting the barn on fire in the process though DLB has done quite well and pretty much only complained about not getting mag covers.

I think that DLB is going to totally move away from competing and concentrate on their businesses and social media. A few more second or third place finishes and she will grow frustrated with the entire process. She doesn't even need to compete at this point.

I don't think Bob loses much in the way of credibility for any one position he takes and how much a handful of people tethered to a forum or two think about him. He doesn't work for the feds, but rather the promoters that hire him as emcee etc. He is good at it. Great at it in fact.

I have always enjoyed Bob's emcee work and I look at that as a separate "grade" from his credibility as a member of the bodybuilding media. Once Shawn Ray questioned him, it shined a much brighter light than a few forum members doing the same.

And even going back to the Arnold seminar, he quickly and quietly agreed with him on the judging issue then changed the subject. As a journalist, that is a winning lottery ticket handed to you and to blow it off because you have to be a company man says a lot. He had a free pass there and Arnold would still have been viewed as the "bad guy," and Bob still moved away from the subject. That was the interview every journalist would kill for and he fumbled the ball.

To make matters worse, Bob was so vocal about it to refute what Arnold said on the next PBW. Journalistic integrity also includes to not continue the discussion after the other party leaves.

Going against the grain and claiming the judging sucks etc can get you some flak no doubt especially if you are doing it at an event where the head judge is sitting only a few feet away from you. I'm sure you'd get similar flak in the NFL and NBA if calling the owners out (equivalent of judges in the IFBB & NPC as they are show promoters too). Arnold might can do it, but he is a movie star and former governor insulated against retaliation. Bob didn't agree with Arnold, but as he contended sense Arnold could as easily have his event as an invitation only show if he wanted to effect change. The Columbus fireside chat wasn't the correct time to provide that retort, but all due respect for his stating it online and in print since.

Quite the contrary, ripping the players, teams and even league is commonplace in sportswriting. There's even a clause in the respective leagues' media policies that if you are a legitimate member of the media (especially if you have been credentialed by that organization in the past) and a particular media relations director suddenly gets a hard-on for you and begins to deny credential requests, you can contact the league to intervene and get you back on the list.

Read any newspaper and beat writers shred teams all of the time, even going after the media relations director when they make their job harder and not give them access to certain players who they are protecting from being given a hard time after a bad game.

One time, the magazine I was the Editor-in-Chief of had a writer that covered the Yankees for us. He was well connected with a lot of guys in the organization for years and had been around before this particular media relations director (I'll call him JZ) had the position. JZ didn't like the fact that this writer was buddies with so many of the players and front office personnel and denied his Spring Training press pass for home games in Tampa. Long story short, but we ended up going over JZ's head and Hank Steinbrenner was informed of this. At the end of the day, my writer had a full spring press pass for home AND road games.

[Musclepapa John]

Quite the contrary, ripping the players, teams and even league is commonplace in sportswriting. There's even a clause in the respective leagues' media policies that if you are a legitimate member of the media (especially if you have been credentialed by that organization in the past) and a particular media relations director suddenly gets a hard-on for you and begins to deny credential requests, you can contact the league to intervene and get you back on the list.

Read any newspaper and beat writers shred teams all of the time, even going after the media relations director when they make their job harder and not give them access to certain players who they are protecting from being given a hard time after a bad game.

One time, the magazine I was the Editor-in-Chief of had a writer that covered the Yankees for us. He was well connected with a lot of guys in the organization for years and had been around before this particular media relations director (I'll call him JZ) had the position. JZ didn't like the fact that this writer was buddies with so many of the players and front office personnel and denied his Spring Training press pass for home games in Tampa. Long story short, but we ended up going over JZ's head and Hank Steinbrenner was informed of this. At the end of the day, my writer had a full spring press pass for home AND road games.

If the relationship of a journalist is to be adversarial I'm not so sure being chummy with everyone bodes well for JZs integrity if you wanna get right down to it.

No one knew about dog fights by ball players? None of the chummy media people get wind of stuff like that or ball players nights in the VIP room with strippers while the wife is back in some other state that they don't report?

Guess I don't see a big difference between being chummy with ball players and taking selfies with them while you are supposed to be reporting on them as assets for the franchise. I see supposed "media people" in this industry calling this athlete and that athlete their friend after meeting them a couple of times even once in fact for a couple minute conversation or an assignment. Either they have a low threshold of what constitutes friendship or are trying to do some influence peddling, which aint exactly setting oneself up for meeting a high journalistic standard.

If you really are friends with the people you are reporting on then you are suspect for holding back information relative to their activities that's even worse than the selfie takers by some measures.

Sports writing to me in fact is laughable in the context of journalism. Its more like public relations for gaming, which has its place, but lets keep it real. None of these folks is looking to do embed reporting with an Army or Marine unit in Afghanistan.

[Joe Pietaro]

If the relationship of a journalist is to be adversarial I'm not so sure being chummy with everyone bodes well for JZs integrity if you wanna get right down to it.

Well, JZ has been with the Yankees for years and is still in that position, so he must be doing something right. But not every scribe needs to be hated by the players. This guy had a certain personality that fit the friendly type and he wasn't a bullshit artist, so people vouched for him and he was trusted. If he was told something 'off the record,' it stayed off. So he earned that right in my eyes.

No one knew about dog fights by ball players? None of the chummy media people get wind of stuff like that or ball players nights in the VIP room with strippers while the wife is back in some other state that they don't report?

Writers get a lot of information that is not worthy of reporting - especially guys banging broads on the side. What purpose does that serve? The one media outlet that has made theor bones with that stuff is Deadspin and they are huge. But they are different from a regular sports site. That's their schtick. And I highly doubt that any writers knew about Vick's dog fighting stuff. Stepping out on one's wife is one thing; committing a crime is another.

Guess I don't see a big difference between being chummy with ball players and taking selfies with them while you are supposed to be reporting on them as assets for the franchise. I see supposed "media people" in this industry calling this athlete and that athlete their friend after meeting them a couple of times even once in fact for a couple minute conversation or an assignment. Either they have a low threshold of what constitutes friendship or are trying to do some influence peddling, which aint exactly setting oneself up for meeting a high journalistic standard.

There is such a huge disparity between writers in the sports world and bodybuilding industry. The latter basically sucks balls, if I am to be totally honest. I have read cover features regularly in both MD and FLEX written in the first person, first names used instead of last and so many basic writing rules broken that to compare the two is ludicrous.

So to be chummy with a ballplayer is a benefit because you know that you can always count on that guy for a quote - even after a shitty game. He may even throw one of his teammates or coaches under the bus to you, which is gold as long as you do it the way he requests (named or not).

When I covered the Jets, I had a few guys that I would always hit up by their locker after the game. You get to know one another and they realize that you're just doing your job, not trying to be a dick.

But even if you know a guy from covering the games, he is not your friend, per se. He is barely an acquaintance. The one guy that I would actually say is a "friend" of mine is Steve Weatherford of the NY Giants. We have stayed in contact and text one another every so often.

So if some guy who covers bodybuilding is bragging that he is pals with Dennis Wolf or someone like that, consider the source.

If you really are friends with the people you are reporting on then you are suspect for holding back information relative to their activities that's even worse than the selfie takers by some measures.

You would only hold back info that has nothing to do with the sport, like the other example of the strip club. That's not relative to their activities. But these pro athletes are not hanging out with the writers after the game. Very rarely does that happen. But I have never seen a writer take a selfie with an athlete or ask for an autograph. Those are extreme no-no's if you intend on keeping your job. And that is also a sign of immaturity in my opinion. You're not a fan when you cover a game.

Sports writing to me in fact is laughable in the context of journalism. Its more like public relations for gaming, which has its place, but lets keep it real. None of these folks is looking to do embed reporting with an Army or Marine unit in Afghanistan.

Sportswriting is just that - covering sports. It has nothing to do with gaming, which is a specific topic in the industry that has its own group of people. While a guy covering a war overseas deserves a shitload of credit for doing that, it is a different entity, as well.

Just looking at sportswriting in general, there are some amazing scribes out there. Rick Reilly and Marty Noble are two that come to mind. They are legendary and no one in the bodybuilding industry can even come close to that distinction, with the exception perhaps of Peter McGough.