Harvard's Prestigious Debate Team Loses to Group of Inmates

[huge285]

Harvard's Prestigious Debate Team Loses to Group of Inmates

2 Hours AgoThe Associated Press

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Months after winning a national title, Harvard's debate team has fallen to a group of New York inmates.
The showdown took place at the Eastern New York Correctional Facility, a maximum-security prison where convicts can take courses taught by faculty from nearby Bard College, and where inmates have formed a popular debate club. Last month, they invited the Ivy League undergraduates and this year's national debate champions over for a friendly competition.

The Harvard debate team also was crowned world champions in 2014. But the inmates are building a reputation of their own. In the two years since they started a debate club, the prisoners have beaten teams from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point and the University of Vermont. The competition with West Point, which is now an annual affair, has grown into a rivalry.

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At Bard, those who help teach the inmates aren't particularly surprised by their success.

"Students in the prison are held to the exact same standards, levels of rigor and expectation as students on Bard's main campus," said Max Kenner, executive director of the Bard Prison Initiative, which operates in six New York prisons. "Those students are serious. They are not condescended to by their faculty."

Students on the Harvard team weren't immediately available for comment, but shortly after the loss, they posted a comment on a team Facebook page.


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People walk around the Harvard University''s main campus in Cambridge, MA.

"There are few teams we are prouder of having lost a debate to than the phenomenally intelligent and articulate team we faced this weekend," they wrote. "And we are incredibly thankful to Bard and the Eastern New York Correctional Facility for the work they do and for organizing this event."
Against Harvard, the inmates were tasked with defending a position they opposed: They had to argue that public schools should be allowed to turn away students whose parents entered the U.S. illegally. The inmates brought up arguments that the Harvard team hadn't considered. Three students from Harvard's team responded, and a panel of neutral judges declared the inmates victorious.


"The fact that we won is nice, but it isn't the most important thing," said Kenner, adding that the club is meant to help students articulate what they've learned.
Inmates can earn various degrees through the initiative, which is taught primarily by Bard faculty. About 15 percent of the all-male inmates at the Eastern New York Correctional Facility in Napanoch are enrolled. Graduates of the program have continued their studies at Yale and Columbia universities, Kenner said.


While in prison, they learn without the help of the Internet, relying instead on resources provided by the college.
"They make the most of every opportunity they have," Kenner said.

[Poker face Ace]

I wonder if the ex-convict kali participated. 'I came up with hyphin mud my n**ga, everyone repeat after me, hyphin mud'

[Maniacal]

Affirmative action has officially hit the debate stage. Wonderful.

Well, that and they had home-court advantage.

[roccco]

Affirmative action has officially hit the debate stage. Wonderful.

Well, that and they had home-court advantage.

WTF kind of unintelligent comment is that?

[Maniacal]

WTF kind of unintelligent comment is that?

Sorry to upset you, convict.

[Young Gotti]

WTF kind of unintelligent comment is that?

get used to it, he makes a lot of them

[Maniacal]

get used to it, he makes a lot of them

You fuckers need to remove the sticks from your uptight asses and learn to distinguish sarcasm from seriousness.

[BigZero]

I thought the only debate in prison was: "Is it still considered gay if you are only ever on top?"

[HTW]

Unless I see the credentials and previous education from the inmates, this is false.. If this happens to be true , Harvard has turned into liberal state. Since America has now told the younger generation to ignore our own American history and act like anything before 1960 didn't happen this shouldn't be shocking ..

[Musclepapa John]

Saw this earlier while doing cardio at gym and planned to post in response to the Who loses thread debate over Kali vs Piana. Being a convict clearly doesn't mean you are stupid and for this debate team with no access to googling every damn thing its a pretty sound conclusion I think to say they beat the ivy leagues and military academies with one hand tied behind their back.

[Tu Holmes]

I believe inmates do have internet access actually.

[Musclepapa John]

I believe inmates do have internet access actually.

To prepare for the competition, the inmates, members of Bard’s Prison Initiative, were forced to acquire knowledge the old-fashioned way: Without access to the Internet, according to the Wall Street Journal. In 2015, can you seriously imagine preparing for anything — purchasing a movie ticket, looking up directions or researching basically anything — without going online?

Complicating their challenge, the Journal noted, was the fact that research requests for books and articles had to be approved by the prison administration, something that could take weeks.
Consider that for a moment: Weeks, not minutes or even days — and all while attempting to map out a research strategy that hinged upon institutional approval. If debate is equal parts rhetorical flourish and strategy, it’s worth asking whether circumstance forced the prisoners to devise an approach — in which limited resources demanded sharper focus and more rigorous planning — that resulted in superior lines of argumentation.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...eam/?tid=sm_fb

[Ibarramedia]

If the college students did not have any restrictions using the internet like the inmates did, then the inmates victory is even more impressive. There are many jailhouse lawyers there and the very same inmates could be using their skills to free themselves via appeals, etc.

[Musclepapa John]

The Washington Post article gleans a variety of potential spin off discussions relative to this;
-Inmates as compared to the general public aren't necessarily less intelligent.
-The same personality characteristics that resulted in the inmates being better influencers in debate may have something to do with them being in prison.

[Vince Goodrum]

It shouldn't be a huge surprise. Age and experience will always win. You have a bunch of kids not even 21 going up against a bunch of grown men. They didn't stand a chance and this team has pretty much beaten the tar out of a lot of other colleges including West Point Military Academy.

Too many good people are locked up for pretty minor reasons. You got folks doing 50 years for a gram of crack cocaine.