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  1. #1
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    Default WPD post comp rebound..Suggestions please??

    Hi Ladies,
    Long post but trying to be thorough.
    I’m new at competing and still trying to find that formula that works for me even after 2 preps within 2 years. Problem is I’m having major issues with being hypothyroid and need to know how to boost my metabolism chemically or otherwise.

    I am on an off season and my goal is for LEAN gains without becoming a fat ass which looks like what is happening. I just competed for the first time in the WPD in November (placed 4th in my division) and boy have I rebounded. I have especially gained in the abdomen which is strange since I don’t usually gain in that area. I cut with Winny25 mg ED, T3 25mg (split ED) , and Clen 25mcg toward latter part of my prep.

    Goal was to stay within 10 lbs of comp weight but instead went up 20 lbs. It seems to have stabilized but I want to be sure that what I’m doing is right. I’ve only competed once before and that was in figure in April of 2014.

    So feel free to take a look at my diet, gear, and cardio regiment.
    As I said before I am Hypothyroid so suggestions with knowledge of that would be appreciated.


    Age:41
    Height: 5’8”
    Weight on season: 173
    Current: 195


    12.5 mcg of t3 (cytomel) morning ED (bio thyroid does nothing for me)


    No gear for 6 weeks after comp then started this cycle two weeks ago
    Tren 25 mg Every 3 Days
    NPP 25 mg Every 3 Days
    Test Prop 25 mg EOD

    Gear changed this week:
    Dropped the NPP (because of major bloat might be add it back though because the joints loved it)
    Test prop 25mg EOD
    Tren Ace 25mg 3rd day
    exemistaine 25 mg a day (to address skin issues)
    nolvadex 10 mg 2 x a day (to address skin issues)


    BREAKFAST-
    1/2 cup oatmeal (before water) with sliced banana and cinnamon
    5 egg whites plus 1 whole egg
    Multi Vitamin, 1000 mg Vitamin C, Fish Oil/Omega 3, 1000 mg CLA’s,Digestive Enzyme
    SNACK
    6 oz. lean ground turkey made into a patty with lettuce, tomato, onion, mustard on
    LUNCH
    6 ounces boneless skinless chicken breast
    1 cup broccoli
    ½ cup brown rice
    ½ cup black or white beans
    1000 mg Vitamin C, Fish Oil/Omega 3, CLA’s, Digestive Enzyme
    SNACK
    6 ounces chicken
    1 Apple
    1 tbsp almond butter
    DINNER
    6 oz London Broil 3 days/ Salmon 4 days
    2 cups dark green vegetable or small green salad
    Digestive Enzyme
    SNACK
    5 egg white omelet with spinach, broccoli, onion, peppers and hot sauce

    At night I take probiotic, magnesium, and glutamine 5g.



    Additional info:
    · Drink 3/4 Gallon Water per Day.
    · Use Sodium freely
    · Two moderate cheat meals this week.
    · 5 days a week of 30 minutes Cardio ( non fasted)
    · 5-6 days of weight training a week

    Gear experience:
    Masteron 25mg ever 3rd day- loved it during my first cut got me solid as a rock
    Var 10 mg ED– hated it guaranteed 10 lbs of water tried several kinds
    Winny 25mg ED– used when cutting and dried out joints terribly and killed my skin
    HGH 3UI ED- bloated the hell out and did nothing for gains or metabolism so dropped it

    Questions:
    1) Do you think I just had rebound? should I try and loss some fat now? Or should I just maintain current regiment and worry about lose until I cut?


    2) Anything you see I might want to change?


    3) I’ve read some things about certain peptides for fatloss. Any ideas?


    4) Should I add anything to what I am doing now?


    5) Anyone have any post comp practices to keep their rebound in check lol?


    Thanks for any info you can give!

  2. #2
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    I forgot to mention that I plan on being in an off season for a year to build some nice muscle without but I don't want to become Jabba the hut during this time.

  3. #3
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Nothing to add other than best wishes and ask what grade level or setting do you teach art? I'm kindergarten through 4th grade this year.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    Nothing to add other than best wishes and ask what grade level or setting do you teach art? I'm kindergarten through 4th grade this year.
    Thank you for the well wishes. I teach high school drawing, painting, world crafts, and Sculpture. I would love to teach the little ones they are so cute at that age.

  5. #5
    Managing Dir., Rx Muscle Forums Curt James's Avatar
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    Awesome. Is the sculpture portion with clay or more art history of the subject? Very cool either way.

    And a reply from sassy69 will be well worth your wait. Actually, several women could offer an experienced perspective.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    First of all, welcome to RX & congrats on your entry to competition & particularly WPD!

    If you didn't already see it, please see my article called "Women & Drugs" stickied at the top of this forum. Lots of good-to-know-in-general info.

    OK so lots of stuff going on here so I'm going to give some inline responses below with my initial comments:


    Hi Ladies,
    Long post but trying to be thorough.
    I’m new at competing and still trying to find that formula that works for me even after 2 preps within 2 years. Problem is I’m having major issues with being hypothyroid and need to know how to boost my metabolism chemically or otherwise.

    -> Are you self-medicating or following doctor's prescribed treatment for the thyroid stuff?

    I am on an off season and my goal is for LEAN gains without becoming a fat ass which looks like what is happening. I just competed for the first time in the WPD in November (placed 4th in my division) and boy have I rebounded. I have especially gained in the abdomen which is strange since I don’t usually gain in that area. I cut with Winny25 mg ED, T3 25mg (split ED) , and Clen 25mcg toward latter part of my prep.

    Goal was to stay within 10 lbs of comp weight but instead went up 20 lbs. It seems to have stabilized but I want to be sure that what I’m doing is right. I’ve only competed once before and that was in figure in April of 2014.

    So feel free to take a look at my diet, gear, and cardio regiment.
    As I said before I am Hypothyroid so suggestions with knowledge of that would be appreciated.

    --> Work with a doctor if you aren't! Also over the years I've heard that a combo t3/t4 vs straight t3 works for many people. I am NOT recommending to go add t4 to your own thyroid cocktail. Work w/ a doctor. Also fiddling w/ self-medication for a competition above & beyond an existing medical condition can really create a mess.

    -> Were you using thyroid only for competition or do you use it on a regular basis? If you just used it for competition & then dropped it post show, possibly one source of rebound.



    Age:41
    Height: 5’8”
    Weight on season: 173
    Current: 195


    12.5 mcg of t3 (cytomel) morning ED (bio thyroid does nothing for me)


    No gear for 6 weeks after comp then started this cycle two weeks ago
    Tren 25 mg Every 3 Days
    NPP 25 mg Every 3 Days
    Test Prop 25 mg EOD

    --> That's sort of a hefty ass stack. Why Tren?

    Gear changed this week:
    Dropped the NPP (because of major bloat might be add it back though because the joints loved it) --> Yes NPP converts to estrogen at a decent rate, thus water retention.
    Test prop 25mg EOD
    Tren Ace 25mg 3rd day
    exemistaine 25 mg a day (to address skin issues)
    nolvadex 10 mg 2 x a day (to address skin issues)
    --> What is the skin issue? Is this doctor prescribed or are you trying to suppress estrogenic acne? I'm not a huge fan of heavy aromatase inhibitors, particularly for "maintenance" type treatment. Aromasin (exemestane) isn't as aggressive as arimidex is, but it still can cause an aggressive estrogen shut down. Both of those can also screw w/ your body if it is trying to find some sort of hormonal homeostasis after a show. My recommendation, if you don't need them, don't use them - keep them explicitly for the last phase of show prep.

    BREAKFAST-
    1/2 cup oatmeal (before water) with sliced banana and cinnamon
    5 egg whites plus 1 whole egg
    Multi Vitamin, 1000 mg Vitamin C, Fish Oil/Omega 3, 1000 mg CLA’s,Digestive Enzyme
    SNACK
    6 oz. lean ground turkey made into a patty with lettuce, tomato, onion, mustard on
    LUNCH
    6 ounces boneless skinless chicken breast
    1 cup broccoli
    ½ cup brown rice
    ½ cup black or white beans
    1000 mg Vitamin C, Fish Oil/Omega 3, CLA’s, Digestive Enzyme
    SNACK
    6 ounces chicken
    1 Apple
    1 tbsp almond butter
    DINNER
    6 oz London Broil 3 days/ Salmon 4 days
    2 cups dark green vegetable or small green salad
    Digestive Enzyme
    SNACK
    5 egg white omelet with spinach, broccoli, onion, peppers and hot sauce

    At night I take probiotic, magnesium, and glutamine 5g.

    --> Diet looks fine - do you know the total calories?

    Additional info:
    · Drink 3/4 Gallon Water per Day.
    · Use Sodium freely
    · Two moderate cheat meals this week.
    · 5 days a week of 30 minutes Cardio ( non fasted)
    · 5-6 days of weight training a week

    Gear experience:
    Masteron 25mg ever 3rd day- loved it during my first cut got me solid as a rock
    Var 10 mg ED– hated it guaranteed 10 lbs of water tried several kinds
    Winny 25mg ED– used when cutting and dried out joints terribly and killed my skin
    HGH 3UI ED- bloated the hell out and did nothing for gains or metabolism so dropped it
    --> hGH is not going to do anything for "gains" as it is not a steroid. Overall it is just a support for whatever you are doing & improves "recovery". It is "slow acting" in the sense that a couple months on it may or may not make a big difference. Again primarily a support. Also if you're bloating too much, then reduce the dosage. 1-2 iu is usually sufficient for women, but still the point is to find the sweet spot and not be uncomfortable. It also highly depends on the quality of your stuff. Lots of Chinese stuff is underdosed.

    Questions:
    1) Do you think I just had rebound? should I try and loss some fat now? Or should I just maintain current regiment and worry about lose until I cut?

    --> How did your diet change after you finished your last show? Did you follow a "reverse diet" or slowly ease back into a maintenance diet? How many calories did you use to diet into your show? (In other words, how extreme was your prep and did you stick to a clean diet coming out of it?) This can work into what sort of rebound you experience, particularly if a lot of the rebound is water weight.

    --> Mostly I would watch the cheats, maybe consider keepign them to one meal / week for a while and let your body use the quality food you're eating. I don't know if you're trying to do a growth phase or what right now - you can do a "clean bulker" mostly if keep the food clean.

    --> What was your diet like during your prep? How much carb & fat? I see that you're currently only consuming maybe 80 g carb / day? You might consider a carb cycle for a while in case you're operating on too low of carbs and your body isn't responding to it. Do you have any sense of how your body responds to carbs? Me personally, I do a lot of keto or carb rotation for prep and also for my off season.


    2) Anything you see I might want to change?

    --> When was the last time you had bloodwork done? How long did you run the competition cycle? Personally I'd tell you to stay off the drugs at least for 8 weeks post show, particularly if you experienced a big rebound. More important to let your body find homeostasis after the stress of a competition than to start throwing in more drugs to force a fat loss.

    When did you note that gained 20 lbs? Immediately? Or recently? The NPP + TP + etc. stackk will produce weight gain immediately.


    3) I’ve read some things about certain peptides for fatloss. Any ideas?

    --> You've got a lot going on already, I'd get your diet straightened out first to start getting the results you want before throwing in more drugs.

    4) Should I add anything to what I am doing now?

    --> I'd try a carb cycle in your diet. Keep it simple. All the drugs in the world aren't going to get results that your diet isn't already producing.

    5) Anyone have any post comp practices to keep their rebound in check lol?

    --> Ease very slowly back into a maintenance diet. If you're using any aggressive drugs (not so much steroids) like thyroid & anti-estrogens, run them for short periods of time - ideally 4-6 weeks, and ease off of them instead of just dropping them cold. Also don't do a desperation prep - the more extreme you get w/ competition prep, the more time your body needs to recover when you finish the show.
    Last edited by sassy69; 01-13-2016 at 10:46 PM.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



  7. #7
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    Sassy69 thank you so much for taking the time to read through this novel I really appreciate it! I am answering your questions with a million things going on but I will try and be as clear as possible.


    -> Are you self-medicating or following doctor's prescribed treatment for the thyroid stuff?

    --> Work with a doctor if you aren't! Also over the years I've heard that a combo t3/t4 vs straight t3 works for many people. I am NOT recommending to go add t4 to your own thyroid cocktail. Work w/ a doctor. Also fiddling w/ self-medication for a competition above & beyond an existing medical condition can really create a mess
    -> Were you using thyroid only for competition or do you use it on a regular basis? If you just used it for competition & then dropped it post show, possibly one source of rebound.

    was prescribed thyroid meds by my doctor a year ago. Biothyroid, which is the mix of T4/t3, but dropped it when I began cutting and have just been using t3 since. T3 worked great during my cut and I was dropping dramatically. So I guess the answer is yes right now but I will be going back to her soon to get bloodwork again. Everyone says biothyroid is better than synthetic but it didn’t do anything for my metabolism or fatique. My cortisol is so high that it interferes with T4 conversion and it really keeps me from loosing anything no matter how hard I work. I’m try things to control it but can’t help but to stress I have kids. Lol



    --> That's sort of a hefty ass stack. Why Tren?



    This stack was recommended to me based on my goal to grow in my off season. My shoulders are small and my arms are super lean. My lower body is like someone else’s my legs are thick and muscular. I was told this stack was good.


    --> What is the skin issue? Is this doctor prescribed or are you trying to suppress estrogenic acne? I'm not a huge fan of heavy aromatase inhibitors, particularly for "maintenance" type treatment. Aromasin (exemestane) isn't as aggressive as arimidex is, but it still can cause an aggressive estrogen shut down. Both of those can also screw w/ your body if it is trying to find some sort of hormonal homeostasis after a show. My recommendation, if you don't need them, don't use them - keep them explicitly for the last phase of show prep.

    Yes! I am trying to suppress estrogenic acne and its driving me nuts. When I did my cut winny broke my back out terribly and now I have scars which are clearing slowly. But with what I’m taking now I get break outs on the side of my face and shoulders. I guess I can just use the Nizoral shampoo and deal with it instead of taking these AIs.




    --> Diet looks fine - do you know the total calories?

    I don’t track the calories. I just measure the macros.

    --> hGH is not going to do anything for "gains" as it is not a steroid. Overall it is just a support for whatever you are doing & improves "recovery". It is "slow acting" in the sense that a couple months on it may or may not make a big difference. Again primarily a support. Also if you're bloating too much, then reduce the dosage. 1-2 iu is usually sufficient for women, but still the point is to find the sweet spot and not be uncomfortable. It also highly depends on the quality of your stuff. Lots of Chinese stuff is underdosed.

    Yes HGH isn’t a steroid but from what I’ve read I thought it induces the replication of muscle cells aiding in building. AASI agree a support. I hear you on the dosage and I thought 3UI might be too high. I will keep that in mind if I give it a go again.



    --> How did your diet change after you finished your last show? Did you follow a "reverse diet" or slowly ease back into a maintenance diet? How many calories did you use to diet into your show? (In other words, how extreme was your prep and did you stick to a clean diet coming out of it?) This can work into what sort of rebound you experience, particularly if a lot of the rebound is water weight.



    I did not reverse diet but I did go back to the diet I had prior to my last cutting diet which is similar to what I have now. My cutting diet wasn’t the most extreme this time but I’m sure I didn’t come out of it properly.



    --> Mostly I would watch the cheats, maybe consider keeping them to one meal / week for a while and let your body use the quality food you're eating. I don't know if you're trying to do a growth phase or what right now - you can do a "clean bulker" mostly if keep the food clean.


    I think the one cheat meal will be fine. I’m trying to grow A LOT especially in my upper body area and achieve a desired look. I don’t plan on competing again for another year. In the meantime I want to gain more muscle. Regardless of what judges want I want to look like the late 80s FBBs or the way WPD is now ( I say now since I saw the letter from the IFBB that size is becoming an issue in bikini, figure, and physique. they want smaller. I think they are really trying to put the final nail in the coffin of Female bodybuilding sadly and kick out the FBB cross overs that are now in physqie. I really hate that.)


    --> What was your diet like during your prep? How much carb & fat? I see that you're currently only consuming maybe 80 g carb / day? You might consider a carb cycle for a while in case you're operating on too low of carbs and your body isn't responding to it. Do you have any sense of how your body responds to carbs? Me personally, I do a lot of keto or carb rotation for prep and also for my off season.


    Comp prep diet changed a few times but toward the end it had lower carbs and fat than what I’m eating now. Carb cycling works well for me when I hit a platue. I’m going to give that a try. Keto doesn’t work at all for me ( I wish it did because I’ve seen people look great doing it) my body doesn’t like (0) carbs and holds on to fat.


    --> When was the last time you had bloodwork done? How long did you run the competition cycle? Personally I'd tell you to stay off the drugs at least for 8 weeks post show, particularly if you experienced a big rebound. More important to let your body find homeostasis after the stress of a competition than to start throwing in more drugs to force a fat loss.

    My bloodwork was done less than a year ago. Its time to get it done again. My last comp prep was 16 weeks.



    --> When did you note that gained 20 lbs? Immediately? Or recently? The NPP + TP + etc. stack will produce weight gain immediately.



    Half of the gain was gradual and the other half immediate. The immediate is probably water. I have a total moon face going on.



    --> You've got a lot going on already, I'd get your diet straightened out first to start getting the results you want before throwing in more drugs.


    --> I'd try a carb cycle in your diet. Keep it simple. All the drugs in the world aren't going to get results that your diet isn't already producing.
    --> Ease very slowly back into a maintenance diet. If you're using any aggressive drugs (not so much steroids) like thyroid & anti-estrogens, run them for short periods of time - ideally 4-6 weeks, and ease off of them instead of just dropping them cold. Also don't do a desperation prep - the more extreme you get w/ competition prep, the more time your body needs to recover when you finish the show.
    Here's what I’ve gathered from your input:

    1) Get blood work done again.
    2) Used prescribed meds and stop self medicating with T3/ work with my doctor

    3) Don’t use the AIs now and instead use other methods in controlling estrogenic acne
    4) Save the AIs for the last part of comp prep and not the off season
    5) Carb cycle and see if that prevents me from gaining more fat and possibly lose some
    6) Stop changing things around and let my body find a balance
    7) Don’t add anything else I'm on a serious stack as it is

    8) Test Prop is known to bloat

    Did I get it all?

    Thanks again!

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    The Sculpture class materials include Clay, metal, wood, plaster, and anything we can use to make 3d objects. I incorporate art history in the beginning of the lesson but we mainly focus on art making. Its a lot of fun.

    Thank you sassy69 provided a very thorough response I am very grateful for a forum like this. There are very few for women.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator sassy69's Avatar
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    1) Get blood work done again.

    -> Based on the above its probably ok to wait awhile. I don't see the big value in getting bloodwork while you have compounds still in your system - all the bloodwork is going to tell is that your system is jacked up because you have compounds in your system. You bring that to a doctor and they just freak out and go off on tangents to correct something that will correct itself when the compounds are out of your system. The point is to find out just how well your body corrected itself when the compounds are out of your system.


    2) Used prescribed meds and stop self medicating with T3/ work with my doctor

    -> Your weight gain is mostly coming from the steroids & diet - I was concerned about whacked out thyroid. I would go w/ your prescription (or if you work w/ your doctor to adjust it / whatever) while you're not competing. The more close to "natural" / " homeostasis" you are if you are trying to make changes over a long period of time, the better it can respond. If you want to go to straight t3 during prep, fine. But let your thyroid work the way it is supposed to (in your case, w/ the thyroid script) until then.

    3) Don’t use the AIs now and instead use other methods in controlling estrogenic acne
    4) Save the AIs for the last part of comp prep and not the off season

    Yes. Sorry but when you play w/ steroids, you're you can almost bank on acne. It is really just something you have to accept or don't use steroids. Panthothenic Acid / B5 can help (both in tab & cream form - you can google about it). And Nizoral, also as a body wash. In the extreme people will go get accutane, but it can be very harsh on your system and particularly your liver, so I wouldn't run a cycle while on it. You can google about more ways to help clear up your skin, but for the most part, you just gotta get used to it w/ most any AAS. Defintely don't play around w/ the AIs & SARMs until competition time, if at all. Note that they are suppressing the estrogen that your body still needs (recall your experience w/ winstrol & your joints - the reason winstrol produces such a hard, dry look is because it has that anti-estrogenic effect. In the extreme, you're looking at early menopause.)

    5) Carb cycle and see if that prevents me from gaining more fat and possibly lose some

    Keep in mind that you want to grow right now so you're eating to grow and using steroids - both of those cause weight / water / fat gain. Carb cycling / 'clean bulk' are one way to keep the unnecessary fat off. I'd also watch the cardio because it can just be negating your growth gains right now as well. I'd maybe cut down to 20 min x 4 / week or something. Again you're trying to grow and you dont' really need the cardio.


    You can also try cutting back the steroid dosing - instead of EOD try 25 mg t prop e3d. As I noted above, in everything about fitness, the secret is to find the sweet spot. More isn't usually better but not everyone is the same either.

    Also you should put your typical day's meal plan into a food counts program like fitday.com to get a reasonably accurate idea of how much you are actually eating. Macros is fine, but if you're taking a boatload of drugs to "stay lean" while growing, you should probably also have a pretty good idea of how many calories as well.


    6) Stop changing things around and let my body find a balance
    7) Don’t add anything else I'm on a serious stack as it is

    8) Test Prop is known to bloat


    Hope that helps. I get you want to grow - but you said you've got a year. You're hitting your body w/ a lot of drugs over a long period of time - general rule of thumb is time off = time on . If you cycled 16 weeks, ideally you're off 16 weeks. There's a lot of growing you can do w/ food and training like a mofo so it's not necessary to continue be cycling all the time. But when you do, you need to be aware of the side effects that come with it and some you really can't take more drugs to suppress. You just have to deal w/ it, adjust what you can and stay focused on where you're trying to get to.
    "The only way you can hurt the body is not use it. Inactivity is the killer and, remember, it's never too late."
    ~Jack Lalanne



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  • fetch_postinfo_query
  • fetch_postinfo
  • fetch_threadinfo_query
  • fetch_threadinfo
  • fetch_foruminfo
  • load_show_variables
  • load_forum_show_variables
  • global_state_check
  • global_bootstrap_complete
  • global_start
  • style_fetch
  • global_setup_complete
  • showthread_start
  • cache_templates
  • cache_templates_process
  • template_register_var
  • template_render_output
  • fetch_template_start
  • fetch_template_complete
  • friendlyurl_clean_fragment
  • friendlyurl_geturl
  • fb_canonical_url
  • fb_opengraph_array
  • parse_templates
  • fetch_musername
  • notices_check_start
  • notices_noticebit
  • process_templates_complete
  • showthread_getinfo
  • strip_bbcode
  • forumjump
  • friendlyurl_redirect_canonical
  • showthread_post_start
  • showthread_query_postids
  • showthread_query
  • bbcode_fetch_tags
  • bbcode_create
  • showthread_postbit_create
  • postbit_factory
  • postbit_display_start
  • reputation_power
  • reputation_image
  • postbit_imicons
  • bbcode_parse_start
  • bbcode_parse_complete_precache
  • bbcode_parse_complete
  • postbit_display_complete
  • memberaction_dropdown
  • bbcode_img_match
  • tag_fetchbit_complete
  • forumrules
  • showthread_bookmarkbit
  • navbits
  • navbits_complete
  • build_navigation_data
  • build_navigation_array
  • check_navigation_permission
  • process_navigation_links_start
  • process_navigation_links_complete
  • set_navigation_menu_element
  • build_navigation_menudata
  • build_navigation_listdata
  • build_navigation_list
  • set_navigation_tab_main
  • set_navigation_tab_fallback
  • navigation_tab_complete
  • fb_publish_checkbox
  • fb_like_button
  • showthread_complete
  • page_templates