article: How Bodybuilding Should Be Judged

[Geoff Roberts]

http://www.ironmagazine.com/2016/how...uld-be-judged/

[MusclePoppins]

More transparency in any way is a good thing.

I hope that in the event of a tie we wouldn't do something like the challenge round from '04 and have Ronnie beat Jay on the rear lat spread.

Your scoring:
35% shape
25% balance
20% size
20% conditioning

Why not throw in posing to make Arnold happy and have scores out of 20 for 5 categories? Whatever the case, I like your percentages idea but wouldn't be a fan of shape being weighted the heaviest. Genetics are involved in everything, but shape is genetics. Also I'm someone who thinks Kai's shape and flow are underrated and don't find Phil pleasing to look at.

How would judges be held accountable? What was Shawn Ray's idea? Was it a rotating panel? And would dropping the high and low scores remain? There would be a lot of things to hammer down. And I'd like to see transparent categories in every division. What would the bikini categories be? 1. Ass 2. Presentation (suit, hair, color, posing, walking) 3. balance top/bottom/tit size 4. conditioning .......... 25% per category.

FrontDouble.jpg
maxresdefault.jpg1280x720-sOn.jpgphil-heath-back-vs-kai-greene.jpgrear_doubleBi.jpgfront_doubleBi.jpg

[MusclePoppins]

This is a real bodybuilding discussion. Ideally this thread would get more replies than some Rich Piana bullshit.

[Joe Pietaro]

This is a real bodybuilding discussion. Ideally this thread would get more replies than some Rich Piana bullshit.

You have a valid point and one that I certainly can understand. But from the other side of the coin, bodybuilding as a 'sport' is boring as fuck - especially the contest/presentation part of it. And people like Piana have been able to turn that into making it exciting as a lifestyle and attitude rather than a competition.

[Geoff Roberts]

More transparency in any way is a good thing.

I hope that in the event of a tie we wouldn't do something like the challenge round from '04 and have Ronnie beat Jay on the rear lat spread.

Your scoring:
35% shape
25% balance
20% size
20% conditioning

Why not throw in posing to make Arnold happy and have scores out of 20 for 5 categories? Whatever the case, I like your percentages idea but wouldn't be a fan of shape being weighted the heaviest. Genetics are involved in everything, but shape is genetics. Also I'm someone who thinks Kai's shape and flow are underrated and don't find Phil pleasing to look at.

How would judges be held accountable? What was Shawn Ray's idea? Was it a rotating panel? And would dropping the high and low scores remain? There would be a lot of things to hammer down. And I'd like to see transparent categories in every division. What would the bikini categories be? 1. Ass 2. Presentation (suit, hair, color, posing, walking) 3. balance top/bottom/tit size 4. conditioning .......... 25% per category.

FrontDouble.jpg
maxresdefault.jpg1280x720-sOn.jpgphil-heath-back-vs-kai-greene.jpgrear_doubleBi.jpgfront_doubleBi.jpg

Accountability would come via the scores being public. Plus, it is easy to see funny business when a judge is judging just mass or just condition.

Which judges were assigned to which category of the physique would be random, drawn from a hat so to speak, at each show.

Tie breaker would be decided by the routine. However, that would need some parameters of some kind.

[Geoff Roberts]

More transparency in any way is a good thing.

I hope that in the event of a tie we wouldn't do something like the challenge round from '04 and have Ronnie beat Jay on the rear lat spread.

Your scoring:
35% shape
25% balance
20% size
20% conditioning

Why not throw in posing to make Arnold happy and have scores out of 20 for 5 categories? Whatever the case, I like your percentages idea but wouldn't be a fan of shape being weighted the heaviest. Genetics are involved in everything, but shape is genetics. Also I'm someone who thinks Kai's shape and flow are underrated and don't find Phil pleasing to look at.

How would judges be held accountable? What was Shawn Ray's idea? Was it a rotating panel? And would dropping the high and low scores remain? There would be a lot of things to hammer down. And I'd like to see transparent categories in every division. What would the bikini categories be? 1. Ass 2. Presentation (suit, hair, color, posing, walking) 3. balance top/bottom/tit size 4. conditioning .......... 25% per category.

FrontDouble.jpg
maxresdefault.jpg1280x720-sOn.jpgphil-heath-back-vs-kai-greene.jpgrear_doubleBi.jpgfront_doubleBi.jpg

I agree with Romano in that kai was probably better thaqn Phil in 2014. That said, I think Phil beat Kai in 2012 pretty clearly. Look at that back double photo. From the waist up Phil beats him for sure. Kai had better quad sweep, but Phil is harder and has better calves.

[Curt James]

This is a real bodybuilding discussion. Ideally this thread would get more replies than some Rich Piana bullshit.

Here's something I saw on Facebook... a man said he has reliable information (though, yeah, he's not naming a source) that the Arnold will be Kai's last competition and that he's planning on doing guest posing only from that point forward.

In the same breath, though, the man said Greene's team is in negotiations (with who?) to continue competing. Who would Kai Greene be negotiating with? He gets money from competing via prize money paid by, who, AMI?

There's a post or two on the topic in the one Rx Muscle Facebook group.

[Geoff Roberts]

Here's something I saw on Facebook... a man said he has reliable information (though, yeah, he's not naming a source) that the Arnold will be Kai's last competition and that he's planning on doing guest posing only from that point forward.

In the same breath, though, the man said Greene's team is in negotiations (with who?) to continue competing. Who would Kai Greene be negotiating with? He gets money from competing via prize money paid by, who, AMI?

There's a post or two on the topic in the one Rx Muscle Facebook group.

Aaron, PJ, the Generation Iron people, the NFL, who knows. Kai is in a constant state of negotiation it seems lol.

So if he destroys the lineup at the Arnold he still wont do the O? Unlikely.

[Curt James]

Aaron, PJ, the Generation Iron people, the NFL, who knows. Kai is in a constant state of negotiation it seems lol.

So if he destroys the lineup at the Arnold he still wont do the O? Unlikely.

Agreed.

The Facebook member seems convinced, though.

Otoh, he also said there would be an announcement at 11 p.m.

Last night.

So, yeah, that announcement never materialized as far as I know.

[Geoff Roberts]

Agreed.

The Facebook member seems convinced, though.

Otoh, he also said there would be an announcement at 11 p.m.

Last night.

So, yeah, that announcement never materialized as far as I know.

Fishy

[Geoff Roberts]

More transparency in any way is a good thing.

I hope that in the event of a tie we wouldn't do something like the challenge round from '04 and have Ronnie beat Jay on the rear lat spread.

Your scoring:
35% shape
25% balance
20% size
20% conditioning

Why not throw in posing to make Arnold happy and have scores out of 20 for 5 categories? Whatever the case, I like your percentages idea but wouldn't be a fan of shape being weighted the heaviest. Genetics are involved in everything, but shape is genetics. Also I'm someone who thinks Kai's shape and flow are underrated and don't find Phil pleasing to look at.

How would judges be held accountable? What was Shawn Ray's idea? Was it a rotating panel? And would dropping the high and low scores remain? There would be a lot of things to hammer down. And I'd like to see transparent categories in every division. What would the bikini categories be? 1. Ass 2. Presentation (suit, hair, color, posing, walking) 3. balance top/bottom/tit size 4. conditioning .......... 25% per category.

FrontDouble.jpg
maxresdefault.jpg1280x720-sOn.jpgphil-heath-back-vs-kai-greene.jpgrear_doubleBi.jpgfront_doubleBi.jpg

The reason for this ratio is to make the physiques more appealing to the public, and reduce the heath risks related to bodybuilding. Size and condition are both the least appealing to the masses, as well as the most dangerous to chase.

I agree about genetics, but that's just how the cookie crumbles. In fact, this scoring might reduce the number of guys with shitty genetics trying to drug their way to the top.

[Joe Pietaro]

Here's something I saw on Facebook... a man said he has reliable information (though, yeah, he's not naming a source) that the Arnold will be Kai's last competition and that he's planning on doing guest posing only from that point forward.

In the same breath, though, the man said Greene's team is in negotiations (with who?) to continue competing. Who would Kai Greene be negotiating with? He gets money from competing via prize money paid by, who, AMI?

There's a post or two on the topic in the one Rx Muscle Facebook group.

Hmmmm...I had heard something recently that this may be related to. It was 'off the record,' so I can't be a blabber mouth.

[MusclePoppins]

You have a valid point and one that I certainly can understand. But from the other side of the coin, bodybuilding as a 'sport' is boring as fuck - especially the contest/presentation part of it. And people like Piana have been able to turn that into making it exciting as a lifestyle and attitude rather than a competition.

I hear what you're saying, I just can't wrap my head around bodybuilding being boring. I'm the guy that gets a kick out of watching Jay Cutler and Dave Bourlet doing late night pre-contest shopping on Youtube.

[MusclePoppins]

The reason for this ratio is to make the physiques more appealing to the public, and reduce the heath risks related to bodybuilding. Size and condition are both the least appealing to the masses, as well as the most dangerous to chase.

I agree about genetics, but that's just how the cookie crumbles. In fact, this scoring might reduce the number of guys with shitty genetics trying to drug their way to the top.

I see where you're coming from. Your reasoning behind the percentages also builds off your glute/conditioning article. I'm at a loss because I liked Nubret's and Labrada's physiques a lot, but I also like Dorian, Jay and Kai.

As for transparency, as much as I want more information there is something appealing about sitting back and wondering what it means when Phil is moved to the outside and Rhoden is put in between him and Wolf -- all the guessing and second-guessing and anticipation. But then, out of nowhere, you want transparency again because you want to know how and why Dexter moved from 4th to 2nd overnight. Or why Justine Munro was 8th in Bikini. I want breakdowns and accountability, but I guess I don't want the physiques to go backward. That doesn't mean the midsections can't get better and it also doesn't mean we have to get bigger and make Ramy the next Mr. O. This can be controlled and improved in ways that have nothing to do with increases or decreases in size. Bodybuilding as a sport, like a fully developed physique, just needs refinement and detail work.

[davidcua]

If only they implemented this way of judging/ transparency and rationalization / criterion to judge a bodybuilder physique …

However it is not the case and they won't probably change their way of judging. Explaining their judging to the "public" is insulting to them. Besides judges can earn some more benjamins by corruption… Yes it's hard earn money too. It was hard earn money for Lee Thompson to explain why Cedric was disqualified at the Arnold Brasil and hard earn money to make branch or Steve Kuclo win respectively their last Arnold classic or Arnold classic brazil ^^.

Your way of judging would be fair and much much more accurate to use then the current way.