Lose more fat, stop training fasted

[Young Gotti]

People believe that training without eating means less readily available energy to use for fuel, which will lead to the breakdown of energy reserves (fat and glycogen) to power the session. Theoretically this will lead to more fat loss. In fact, some studies have found that you mobilize more stored fat when doing fasted exercise. But that's not the whole story.

Losing fat is not about what happens during the session, but rather what happens in response to the workout over the course of the day. What happens to your resting energy expenditure for the next 24 hours following your session? What will be the hormonal milieu caused by the session? And what will be its impact on muscle mass?

What happens during the workout?

Proponents of fasted training will claim that since adrenalin/noradrenalin increases more during fasted training you'll have more energy to train. In reality it's pretty well established that when you're in a fasted state (especially if that state has been going on for a while) your capacity to do work decreases as well a mental tolerance for physical work. This will result in less effective training sessions.

What happens to your resting energy expenditure?

A study by Paoli et al. (2011) compared doing 36 minutes of cardio at 65% of maximum heart rate in a fasted or non-fasted state. During the session the analysis of the respiratory exchange ratio (RER) found that more fat was used for fuel in the fasted state, BUT the opposite happened after the session. In fact, fat utilization was significantly higher in the non-fasted group for up to 24 hours after!

When fasted, the subjects burned a little bit more fat during the 36 minutes of the workout, but they burned less for the 24 hours after. The end result is that more fat was utilized over a 24 hours period when the cardio session was NOT done fasted. This was confirmed by the fact that oxygen consumption stayed higher over a 24 hour period in the non-fasted group (more oxygen consumption means burning more fat since oxygen fuels the aerobic energy pathway which relies on fat).

Here's the study's conclusion: "When moderate endurance activity is done to lose fat, fasting before exercise does not enhance lipid utilization; rather, physical activity after a light meal is advisable."

Of course, you can continue quoting the many studies showing that fasted cardio uses more fat during the session, because it's true. But the point is, fasted cardio leads to a lower resting energy expenditure (less calories burned at rest) as well as less total fat utilized over a 24 hour period.

What about the hormonal response?

Lifters know cortisol for its catabolic affect on muscle tissue. We fear it because it can break down muscle so that it can be used for fuel, thus making it harder to build muscle when cortisol is high. But cortisol actually serves a useful function when training: it mobilizes stored energy.

When you train, cortisol is responsible for making energy available. The more you have to rely on stored energy (muscle glycogen or body fat) for fuel, the more cortisol you'll release. The more cortisol you release, the longer it'll take for it to return to normal levels after the workout. As long as cortisol is elevated, your body is in a catabolic state. So if you produce too much cortisol during your session – which is likely to happen when you're doing fasted cardio – your risk of losing muscle mass is much greater and building it will obviously be much harder.

There's also the fact that fasted cardio will increase AMPK more than non-fasted cardio. When AMPK is high, it has a negative impact on protein synthesis. So by doing fasted cardio you make it harder to build muscle.

Then why do competitive bodybuilders do it?

I hate to play the chemical comparison game because it doesn't explain everything, but in this case it does. Nowadays pretty much every competitive bodybuilder worth his salt is using chemical assistance. Heck, even amateur bikini competitors are using stuff.

Using assistance basically helps people bypass the problems caused by fasted cardio. Who cares about elevated cortisol when you're injecting or swallowing anabolic steroids that amp up anabolism at all hours of the day and reduce the effects of cortisol? So what if you're raising AMPK if you're in a constant state of anabolism? And so what if your metabolic rate decreases over a 24 hour period when you're using stimulants like clenbuterol or thyroid drugs?

I'm not saying that drug-using bodybuilders have it easy and don't work hard. I'm saying that in some cases, like this one, the limitations that apply to the natural trainee might not apply to them.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/ti...raining-fasted

[davidcua]

Yeah right ! Tell it to Levrone, Wheeler, Cormier, Ronnie (Yes he did some walking on his treadmill too), Cutler, Rhoden, Dexter etc. etc.

But yeah fasted low intensity Cardio isn't the most efficient way to burn fat while doing cardio.
LOOL go read a study or a post by Layne Norton and believe whatever you want. LMAO

[Young Gotti]

guess you didn't read

[MusclePoppins]

Here CuaCua, I broke down the article and made bullet points to help you out

-The more cortisol you release, the longer it'll take for it to return to normal levels after the workout.

-As long as cortisol is elevated, your body is in a catabolic state. So if you produce too much cortisol during your session – which is likely to happen when you're doing fasted cardio – your risk of losing muscle mass is much greater and building it will obviously be much harder.

-There's also the fact that fasted cardio will increase AMPK more than non-fasted cardio. When AMPK is high, it has a negative impact on protein synthesis. So by doing fasted cardio you make it harder to build muscle.

[MusclePoppins]

guess you didn't read

Good article.

[Young Gotti]

Here CuaCua, I broke down the article and made bullet points to help you out

-The more cortisol you release, the longer it'll take for it to return to normal levels after the workout.

-As long as cortisol is elevated, your body is in a catabolic state. So if you produce too much cortisol during your session – which is likely to happen when you're doing fasted cardio – your risk of losing muscle mass is much greater and building it will obviously be much harder.

-There's also the fact that fasted cardio will increase AMPK more than non-fasted cardio. When AMPK is high, it has a negative impact on protein synthesis. So by doing fasted cardio you make it harder to build muscle.

thank you, he struggles with more than 1 paragraph

[davidcua]

Here CuaCua, I broke down the article and made bullet points to help you out

-The more cortisol you release, the longer it'll take for it to return to normal levels after the workout.

Don't you think that by doing HIT (not fasted) you're building higher cortisol levels than doing LOW INTENSITY (walking on a treadmill for instance) CARDIO ON AN EMPTY STOMACH. I do and well tons of TOP pros and "gurus" think so.

-As long as cortisol is elevated, your body is in a catabolic state. So if you produce too much cortisol during your session – which is likely to happen when you're doing fasted cardio – your risk of losing muscle mass is much greater and building it will obviously be much harder.

Same answer here as my answer above.

-There's also the fact that fasted cardio will increase AMPK more than non-fasted cardio. When AMPK is high, it has a negative impact on protein synthesis. So by doing fasted cardio you make it harder to build muscle.

Well doing cardio after training session is using the aminos from the damage muscles that had broken down during the training session. Is it better as far as anti-catabolic purpose? (Not at ALL) .
When do you do you cardio so that your recuperation, muscle waisting + fat oxidation is optimal ? Huuum Well I guess it's fasted cardio (Low intensity) on an empty stomach. LOL

[Young Gotti]

Well doing cardio after training session is using the aminos from the damage muscles that had broken down during the training session. Is it better as far as anti-catabolic purpose? (Not at ALL) .
When do you do you cardio so that your recuperation, muscle waisting + fat oxidation is optimal ? Huuum Well I guess it's fasted cardio (Low intensity) on an empty stomach. LOL

i'll wait for your sources because none of that is accurate information

[Young Gotti]

The practice of combining resistance training with cardio is scientifically termed as ‘concurrent training.’ While concurrent training has been shown to be superior to endurance training alone for enhancing muscle mass and strength (duh), it has been shown to significantly hamper optimal strength and hypertrophy when compared to resistance training alone. Several studies have demonstrated that optimal gains in muscle mass and strength are obtained by strength training alone compared to combining strength training with endurance training (1). However, a recent review of the scientific literature on concurrent training conducted by Dr. Jacob Wilson of the University of Tampa and several of his collegues identified some interesting variables that can affect the way in which your cardio training affects your strength, hypertrophy, and body composition responses to resistance training.

The first variable that was examined was the modality of cardio training. That is, did the type of cardio performed actually make a difference on strength and hypertrophy responses to training? What he found may shock you. The type of cardio performed made a HUGE difference in terms of proper strength and hypertrophy development in response to resistance training. Endurance running or walking caused significantly more decrements in the development of optimal hypertrophy compared with cycling (1). This is also in accordance with a study that compared cycling with incline walking on a treadmill (a very common cardio practice in bodybuilding community) and found that cycling was significantly better for achieving hypertrophy when combined with resistance training compared to incline treadmill walking (2). The researchers concluded that the differences observed here were likely due to the fact cycling requires more hip flexion and multi-joint activation of muscles involved in exercises like squats and leg presses compared to endurance running and walking which are not similar movements to any leg exercises that produce muscular hypertrophy. It should be noted that sprinting is quite a bit different than endurance running and is superior for muscle mass due to the hip flexion required during sprinting, making it more similar to exercises like squats & leg presses vs. jogging.

Indeed, the analysis concluded that the effects of cardio on strength and hypertrophy are body part specific. That is, lower body cardio did not have negative effects on hypertrophy and strength development of upper body parts. Additionally, it has been demonstrated that rowers who added high intensity resistance training (with rows) to their protocol had similar strength and hypertrophy gains compared to a group of non-rowers who followed the same resistance training protocol (3). Therefore, in terms of the best types of cardio, it appears that one should use cardio equipment that most closely mimics movements performed during resistance training. Additionally, while long distance running and walking result in strength and hypertrophy decrements, sprinting does not, most likely due to the fact that sprinting requires significant hip flexion and is more similar to multi-joint leg exercises.



The other major variables the researchers examined were the intensity and duration of cardio work and how it affects strength and hypertrophy when combined with resistance training. They essentially demonstrated that the longer the bout of cardio was, the greater the impairment of strength and hypertrophy. Interestingly, they found that short, high intensity bouts of cardio like repeated sprinting actually had no negative impact on strength and hypertrophy development. This is most likely due to the increased hip flexion as discussed above and because high intensity sprinting or cycling causes your muscles to make high velocity contractions, activating fast twitch muscle fibers compared to endurance cardio work which most likely will not activate the large fast twitch muscle fibers. Now I know some of the ‘broscientists’ out there will pout and stomp their feet claiming that high intensity cardio causes muscle loss. Since these guys don’t like real science, I’ll keep it simple for them. Go down to a track meet and check out the legs on a sprinter and then check out the legs on an endurance runner or power walker and tell me which type of cardio is better for optimizing muscle.



Perhaps even more interesting was that further analysis of the literature on cardio demonstrated that not only was short duration, high intensity cardio better for strength and hypertrophy, it was also superior for fat loss (1). I know the broscientists will continue to spout the value of low intensity cardio to maximize the percentage of calories burned from fat, but to quote the researchers “maximizing intensities, which are ideal for fat metabolism during an exercise, may not be ideal for maximizing fat metabolism in the long term. Research indicates that increases in metabolic rate after exercise increases exponentially with increasing intensity.” So while the broscientists slave away walking their hard earned gains off for hours on a treadmill, I’ll be doing high intensity sprinting or cycling, building more muscle!

References

1) Wilson JM, Marin PJ, Rhea MR, Wilson SM, Loenneke JP, Anderson JC. Concurrent training: A Meta-Analysis examining interference of aerobic and resistance exercises. J Strength Cond Res. 2011 (in press).

2) Gergley JC. Comparison of two lower-body modes of endurance training on lower-body strength development while concurrently training. J Strength Cond Res. 2009 (3):979-87.

3) Bell, GJ, Petersen, SR, Wessel, J, Bagnall, K, and Quinney, HA. Physiological adaptations to concurrent endurance training and low velocity resistance training. Int J Sports Med 12: 384–390, 1991

https://www.biolayne.com/articles/co...-bodybuilding/

[davidcua]

The practice of combining resistance training with cardio is scientifically termed as ‘concurrent training.’ While concurrent training has been shown to be superior to endurance training alone for enhancing muscle mass and strength (duh), it has been shown to significantly hamper optimal strength and hypertrophy when compared to resistance training alone. Several studies have demonstrated that optimal gains in muscle mass and strength are obtained by strength training alone compared to combining strength training with endurance training (1). However, a recent review of the scientific literature on concurrent training conducted by Dr. Jacob Wilson of the University of Tampa and several of his collegues identified some interesting variables that can affect the way in which your cardio training affects your strength, hypertrophy, and body composition responses to resistance training.

The first variable that was examined was the modality of cardio training. That is, did the type of cardio performed actually make a difference on strength and hypertrophy responses to training? What he found may shock you. The type of cardio performed made a HUGE difference in terms of proper strength and hypertrophy development in response to resistance training. Endurance running or walking caused significantly more decrements in the development of optimal hypertrophy compared with cycling (1). This is also in accordance with a study that compared cycling with incline walking on a treadmill (a very common cardio practice in bodybuilding community) and found that cycling was significantly better for achieving hypertrophy when combined with resistance training compared to incline treadmill walking (2). The researchers concluded that the differences observed here were likely due to the fact cycling requires more hip flexion and multi-joint activation of muscles involved in exercises like squats and leg presses compared to endurance running and walking which are not similar movements to any leg exercises that produce muscular hypertrophy. It should be noted that sprinting is quite a bit different than endurance running and is superior for muscle mass due to the hip flexion required during sprinting, making it more similar to exercises like squats & leg presses vs. jogging.

Indeed, the analysis concluded that the effects of cardio on strength and hypertrophy are body part specific. That is, lower body cardio did not have negative effects on hypertrophy and strength development of upper body parts. Additionally, it has been demonstrated that rowers who added high intensity resistance training (with rows) to their protocol had similar strength and hypertrophy gains compared to a group of non-rowers who followed the same resistance training protocol (3). Therefore, in terms of the best types of cardio, it appears that one should use cardio equipment that most closely mimics movements performed during resistance training. Additionally, while long distance running and walking result in strength and hypertrophy decrements, sprinting does not, most likely due to the fact that sprinting requires significant hip flexion and is more similar to multi-joint leg exercises.



The other major variables the researchers examined were the intensity and duration of cardio work and how it affects strength and hypertrophy when combined with resistance training. They essentially demonstrated that the longer the bout of cardio was, the greater the impairment of strength and hypertrophy. Interestingly, they found that short, high intensity bouts of cardio like repeated sprinting actually had no negative impact on strength and hypertrophy development. This is most likely due to the increased hip flexion as discussed above and because high intensity sprinting or cycling causes your muscles to make high velocity contractions, activating fast twitch muscle fibers compared to endurance cardio work which most likely will not activate the large fast twitch muscle fibers. Now I know some of the ‘broscientists’ out there will pout and stomp their feet claiming that high intensity cardio causes muscle loss. Since these guys don’t like real science, I’ll keep it simple for them. Go down to a track meet and check out the legs on a sprinter and then check out the legs on an endurance runner or power walker and tell me which type of cardio is better for optimizing muscle.



Perhaps even more interesting was that further analysis of the literature on cardio demonstrated that not only was short duration, high intensity cardio better for strength and hypertrophy, it was also superior for fat loss (1). I know the broscientists will continue to spout the value of low intensity cardio to maximize the percentage of calories burned from fat, but to quote the researchers “maximizing intensities, which are ideal for fat metabolism during an exercise, may not be ideal for maximizing fat metabolism in the long term. Research indicates that increases in metabolic rate after exercise increases exponentially with increasing intensity.” So while the broscientists slave away walking their hard earned gains off for hours on a treadmill, I’ll be doing high intensity sprinting or cycling, building more muscle!

References

1) Wilson JM, Marin PJ, Rhea MR, Wilson SM, Loenneke JP, Anderson JC. Concurrent training: A Meta-Analysis examining interference of aerobic and resistance exercises. J Strength Cond Res. 2011 (in press).

2) Gergley JC. Comparison of two lower-body modes of endurance training on lower-body strength development while concurrently training. J Strength Cond Res. 2009 (3):979-87.

3) Bell, GJ, Petersen, SR, Wessel, J, Bagnall, K, and Quinney, HA. Physiological adaptations to concurrent endurance training and low velocity resistance training. Int J Sports Med 12: 384–390, 1991

https://www.biolayne.com/articles/co...-bodybuilding/

You couldn't deny/adress my reasoning so you put up a study from Biolayne ? OK. Sounds fair, I go back working. Have a nice day.

[Young Gotti]

You couldn't deny/adress my reasoning so you put up a study from Biolayne ? OK. Sounds fair, I go back working. Have a nice day.

so your not going to back up your statement with any facts? just your opinion that no one takes seriously?

btw that's not a biolayne study, it's an article, the references are at the bottom genius

[Young Gotti]

Dr. Jacob Wilson
Intensity and duration have an even greater effect than mode. Our study concluded that long-term fat loss is actually lowest with moderate intensity, long-duration cardio. The greatest fat loss actually occurred with the shortest duration and highest-intensity activities, like sprinting. We also saw that the longer you do cardio per day, the greater the losses are in muscle mass. However, we found very small decreases in muscle and strength when cardio was kept to less than 20 minutes per day.

"But what about the 'fat-burning zone?'" you shout from the treadmill! By this, you refer to a study conducted in the early 1990s by Dr. Romijn, who concluded that we use the most fat during exercise when performing moderate intensity (65 percent heart rate max), long-duration (45-60 minutes) cardio.9 This study's conclusions are reflected in the "fat-burning" programs on nearly every cardio machine at the gym. However, a major problem with the study is that what happens during exercise does not always reflect what will occur long term. I want to hammer this point home.
we fount that long-duration cardio decreased muscle size. But springing actually increased size.


My lab recently conducted another experiment where we compared low-intensity, long-duration cardio of 60 minutes with 4-10 sets of 10-30-second all-out sprints. As expected, we found that long duration cardio decreased muscle size. But get this: Sprinting actually increased size.10 This suggests that sprinting can actually be anabolic and get you shredded at the same time!

Jim Stoppani

A 2007 University of Tokyo (Japan) study showed that 10 male subjects who performed cardio on a stationary bicycle after a weight workout burned significantly more fat than when they did cardio before weights. This is especially true later in the day; University of Wisconsin-La Crosse researchers found that subjects who did cardio between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m. had a higher resting metabolic rate after the workout than when they trained between 5 a.m. and 7 a.m. or between 21 a.m. and 1 p.m.


so what we can conclude from all of this is cardio in a fasted state is not optimal for fat loss and muscle mass....since low intensity cardio has been shown to reduce muscle mass

HIIT cardio is both best for increasing muscle mass and fat loss since you burn more fat over a 24 hour period....and since it's not good to do HIIT cardio in a fasted state because you can't go as intense without energy.....we can conclude HIIT cardio in a fed state after weight training is optimal

[davidcua]

so your not going to back up your statement with any facts? just your opinion that no one takes seriously?

btw that's not a biolayne study, it's an article, the references are at the bottom genius

It's a study brought up by Layne on his article. I've made a contraction on purpose you stupid F.

BTW your stubbornness at nonsense is beyond the limit of what I thought would be humanly possible. I capitulate and surrender. I (people in general) can't win argument against pigeon brain-sized human, you won man.

Now go eat your oatmeal like a good lad.

[Young Gotti]

It's a study brought up by Layne on his article. I've made a contraction on purpose you stupid F.

BTW your stubbornness at nonsense is beyond the limit of what I thought would be humanly possible. I capitulate and surrender. I (people in general) can't win argument against pigeon brain-sized human, you won man.

Now go eat your oatmeal like a good lad.

So you don't have proof of what you said?

It's funny that the guy that can't back up what's hes saying but insults the intelligence of someone who has obviously done research on the subject matter......ignorance is bliss

[MusclePoppins]

Kid Gotti vs CuaCua

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