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  1. #1
    RX MEMBER aaron_ironbars's Avatar
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    Default Critique Var and Win 1st cycle

    After exchanging a few emails with Dave he recommended I start my first cycle with Var 20mg and Win 25mg ED for 12 weeks. He also said no PCT is needed since they don't aromatize or suppress natural test.

    My goal is to increase lean muscle in all the right places to make my debut in MCP next summer.* I'm 25, 5'8", and weighed 155lb at my last BB comp (Aug 2016).* I planned on modifying Dave's protocol with the following (due to cost and acclimating myself to these drugs):

    Week 1-Var 10mg ed
    week 2-4 Var 20mg ed
    Week 5-Win half 25mg tab ED
    Week 6-8 Win 25mg ED
    *Armidex 1mg EOD (just in case I do experience estrogen side effects)
    *NOW liver regenerator and NOW kidney cleanse

    Constructive criticism is welcomed. Thanks guys.

  2. #2
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    You look good bro but you have some serious gyno happening. This can't be your first cycle. I think 12 weeks of an oral only cycle is a waste of time but do agree that you won't need PCT after winny and var. I would start the arimidex and see if it can't clear up the gyno, otherwise its the knife. But if this is really your first cycle do it right and get 500mg of testosterone and add that to winny and var.

  3. #3
    RX MEMBER aaron_ironbars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trojanhorse69 View Post
    You look good bro but you have some serious gyno happening. This can't be your first cycle. I think 12 weeks of an oral only cycle is a waste of time but do agree that you won't need PCT after winny and var. I would start the arimidex and see if it can't clear up the gyno, otherwise its the knife. But if this is really your first cycle do it right and get 500mg of testosterone and add that to winny and var.
    the gyno is when I used a prohormone back in 2009 and too naive to notice side effects. I simply was chasing mass with whatever costs it came with. Yeah it was a stupid move but now I want to do it the right way. I can try the armidex to see if it clears but I doubt it. Based on what I've read surgery is the only way to remove gyno.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaron_ironbars View Post
    the gyno is when I used a prohormone back in 2009 and too naive to notice side effects. I simply was chasing mass with whatever costs it came with. Yeah it was a stupid move but now I want to do it the right way. I can try the armidex to see if it clears but I doubt it. Based on what I've read surgery is the only way to remove gyno.
    Fuck that sucks man!! The Arimidex should help to clear it but your only hope is surgery. I have seen Femara and Arimidex clear some nasty gyno so give it a shot.

  5. #5
    RX MEMBER aaron_ironbars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trojanhorse69 View Post
    Fuck that sucks man!! The Arimidex should help to clear it but your only hope is surgery. I have seen Femara and Arimidex clear some nasty gyno so give it a shot.
    I'll give Arimidex a try. What's the typical protocol?

  6. #6
    TEAM CUTLER, Chem Forum Leader Sandpig's Avatar
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    Get some Leto fir that gyno
    It cleared mine up

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  7. #7
    RX MEMBER aaron_ironbars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandpig View Post
    Get some Leto fir that gyno
    It cleared mine up

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    you mean Letro? whats the protocol for that? Did it actually rid the fatty tissue?

  8. #8
    TEAM CUTLER, Chem Forum Leader Sandpig's Avatar
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    Yes and yes

    I forgot protocol but you can find it. Google it

    I know you start with a full tablet then a half tab and then eventually a 1/4

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  9. #9
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    You will do better with Dave's original suggestion. Don't worry about gyno. The Win/Var cycle will diminish it on it's own. Winstrol blocks the progesterone receptor and Neither one aromatize to estrogen so you are hitting it from 2 angles with the suggested cycle alone. In fact the biggest problem you will have with that cycle is low estrogen towards the end so if you have dick problems and dry painful joints that's the culprit.

  10. #10
    RX MEMBER aaron_ironbars's Avatar
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    thanks for the advice guys. On a side note, recently Ive noticed short sporadic sensitivity happening with my gyno. I'm not taking any supps that can mess with gyno. But I did notice it started happening as my body weight increased. could this be the culprit? is it normal?

  11. #11
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    I would go with 1mg of Arimidex every other day. The shit is strong so don't overdo it. It should reduce your gyno but honestly nothing is going to make it go away. Femara also works but I have never used it so I don't know personally. But its a strong Aromatase Inhibitor so it works just like Arimidex or Aromasin. But you can make it go down but as lean as you are its going to show. Its really not a big deal. Look at the Rock. That guy has millions and has one of the worst cases of gyno ever. He got it fixed but his nipples are indented and it's obvious he has used AAS. When he lies about it his nose should start growing.

  12. #12
    OLYMPIAN Wtdoom's Avatar
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    It would have been good to see before and after pics to see difference
    Out Of Pain Comes Glory

  13. #13
    RX MEMBER aaron_ironbars's Avatar
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    I'm not lean anymore. The pics were from my show last month. It shows more when I lean down but other than that it doesn't really bother me. However my chest could look better without it.

  14. #14
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    You should run a little test with that. Winny and Var don't have a very long active life. Once they clear your system there's a good chance your mushroom tip won't work too well. I would just run test to keep things working.

    Also just one does of Letro for 2.5mg. Then you can skip your next couple of arimidexs because it'll crash your estro, but your gyno should start to shrivel up.

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