Is Phil Heath the Most Dominant Mr. Olympia of All Time?

[Geoff Roberts]

http://www.ironmagazine.com/2016/is-...a-of-all-time/

[mackdaddy567]

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No, not even close!

[Big Beat]

Haney had 7 Olympias all to himself without any real competition.

If it wasn't for citrus fruit Phil might not have 6.

[the mighty stu]

Yeah, Imma say No. Haney was dominant. Yates was dominant. Coleman was dominant. Heath wins because no one really amazing shows up.

Can you argue that he keeps beating the only competition available to him? Undoubtedly, and in that regard it's not is fault, but is it even close to the caliber of physiques Coleman and Yates faced? Nope.

S

[paradox]

That title goes to the one and only Ronnie!! Just an absolute monster in his peak with size, shape and conditioning.

[Puma]

Great article and if your theory about the scorecards is correct, then you have a pretty valid point. I do think the internet has made the score cards more available as of late so we can't be sure of how close it was on the past score cards (certainly not Haney's). I would think ten years from now people would assume that Kai scored points on Phil if they couldn't locate the score cards.

[Geoff Roberts]

Great article and if your theory about the scorecards is correct, then you have a pretty valid point. I do think the internet has made the score cards more available as of late so we can't be sure of how close it was on the past score cards (certainly not Haney's). I would think ten years from now people would assume that Kai scored points on Phil if they couldn't locate the score cards.

Thanks Puma. I get the feeling that people may not be reading it, or they are getting cut up in mystique. I think that Lee Haney was better then Phil for his time, no question. I also believe that Ronnie at his best would eat Phil alive at his best. They both had much larger impacts on the sport as well.

However, who would win at their best, who was better, or who has the greatest legacy are not the question. The article is strictly about dominance over their competition. Those other guys may have had stiffer competition, but they were still less dominant, in my opinion. Phil is yet to have an Olympia that is highly controversial, and in a few of his wins nobody was even remotely close to him.

[Geoff Roberts]

Great article and if your theory about the scorecards is correct, then you have a pretty valid point. I do think the internet has made the score cards more available as of late so we can't be sure of how close it was on the past score cards (certainly not Haney's). I would think ten years from now people would assume that Kai scored points on Phil if they couldn't locate the score cards.

Very good point. Although I also feel that in 15 years people will be mentioning Phil in the conversation of greatest of all time and discussing how badly he destroyed his opponents in his day.

[Big Beat]

It cannot be ignored that Phil's biggest competition is from a persona non grata. Kai was never getting a sniff at the Olympia.

Politics has always played its part. I have no doubt Kai was good enough to score Points off Phil but never got them. Not surprising he gave up on the Olympia.

The only bodybuilder to truly push Haney was Yates. While he may have been pushed and lost points there was never much doubt he was the winner.

The mark of dominance has to be judged against who was dominated. Ali beat Liston, foreman and Fraizer which is why most people have him as the greatest heavyweight of all time with Louis a close second, Louis just doesn't have the same level of top defeats over all time greats.

The article throws up an interesting talking point but ultimately it points in the direction of subjective judging which will always undermine bodybuilding being considered a sport. Too much politicking goes on.

[Geoff Roberts]

It cannot be ignored that Phil's biggest competition is from a persona non grata. Kai was never getting a sniff at the Olympia.

Politics has always played its part. I have no doubt Kai was good enough to score Points off Phil but never got them. Not surprising he gave up on the Olympia.

The only bodybuilder to truly push Haney was Yates. While he may have been pushed and lost points there was never much doubt he was the winner.

The mark of dominance has to be judged against who was dominated. Ali beat Liston, foreman and Fraizer which is why most people have him as the greatest heavyweight of all time with Louis a close second, Louis just doesn't have the same level of top defeats over all time greats.

The article throws up an interesting talking point but ultimately it points in the direction of subjective judging which will always undermine bodybuilding being considered a sport. Too much politicking goes on.

Solid points. I personally think that Kai beat Phil in 2014 pretty clearly.

Lee Haney is the best bodybuilder to ever live in my opinion. What puts him over the top is/was his age. He retired at 31 if I'm not mistaking. He hadn't even hit his prime yet. He would have traded Olympia titles with Dorian for 5 more years had he continued and god only knows what his physique may have developed into had he been forced to go toe to toe with Dorian for 5 or 6 more years. In which case there would be absolutely zero argument of any kind as to who is the GOAT.

[Big Beat]

To throw in another boxing analogy Wladimir Klitschko was heavy weight world champion for 11 years but won't make most peoples Top 10 of all time.

To be fair to Phil he is the man of the moment and can only beat what is put on front of him. Maybe somebody like Ramy can push on and make it a real competition.

[2000total]

interesting topic, and even more interesting in what it implies. Being the most dominate doesn't me the greatest. You could make the argument that someone who had to fight for the title but won the same number or more would be a greater champion. The factors that go into dominance would be the competition as well. Arnold was dominate, Sergio was dominate. I remember reading that Sergio was so feared as a bodybuilder that no one showed up to compete against him in 1968. No competed against Arnold in 71 either. you could also measure dominance in pure winning percentage. Many say Ronnie was the most dominate and when he was winning the Olympia one might agree but his over record is something like 26 wins 30 losses. Lee Haney won 11 and lost 5, Phil's record is 12 and 4, Arnold's record is 13 and 2, but Dorian has the highest winning percentage at 15 and 2, so I would say Dorian is the most dominate bodybuilder of all time.

[BananaHammock]

Everyone that finished 2nd to Coleman, in the shape they placed 2nd, would be Heath

[Geoff Roberts]

Everyone that finished 2nd to Coleman, in the shape they placed 2nd, would be Heath

No way. Flex in 98 and 99 would look like Lionel Beyeke next to Phil, as in VERY VERY soft, especially from behind. Same with Jay for a lot of his 2nd place finishes. Some of those Jay physiques may have deafted Phil, but certainly not all. As for Kevin, he may win from the front, but Phil would absolutely demolish hiim from the rear.

People harshly underestimate what Phil would look like next to the best guys from 15 years ago. Phil is way better than people give him credit for. Phil back 16.jpgPhil side 16.jpgPhil spread 16.jpgPhil front 16.jpg

You're telling me all those 2nd place Jay physiques would beat this physique^^? I dont buy it.

[Curt James]

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No, not even close!

This.

Phil Heath does not dominate his competition. He's simply favored over the others.

Ronnie Coleman? He - in his lengthy prime - completely dismissed those who opposed him. Case closed, no contest at all. Give that man his Sandow!